2010 Formula One Japanese Grand Prix

[NapoleonMikey]

Sorry, I should have re-worded that. Has he began inspection?

The inspection is complete and the race is good to go.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87421

The Korean Grand Prix will take place later this month after the FIA gave the circuit a green light on Tuesday following two days of safety inspections.

Although the event has been surrounded by speculation for weeks that the venue would not be finished in time for the October 24 race, FIA race director Charlie Whiting was happy with the progress that had been made.

Whiting told race officials that he had seen enough at the track to convince him that he will issue it with the mandatory circuit licence that it needs to host a Formula 1 race.

So in 2 weeks time we will get to see what Korea can produce for an event.

 

[The Outlaw]

I actually do believe that the Button strategy did involve backing up the faster runners so Hamilton could get close. The RBRs clearly suffered behind Button, spacing themselves out and pacing him. I remember pointing this out during the race, watching the live-timing screens where Hamilton was much faster in the first sector than the RBRs at this point. This would have given Hamilton an excellent chance of at least making a podium by taking Alonso and at most taking second over Alonso and Webber. That is, until his gearbox broke. Again.

I do agree, as even if Button had stayed out until nearly the end of the race (to allow Hamilton to really benefit) he would have still consolidated 5th place without a doubt (of course he got 4th due to Hamilton's gearbox issue). And as you alluded to, even if he pitted earlier he would have still gotten no better than 5th (without a pace car or luck coming into the equation). So I think the team played it well and JB doesn't really have much to complain about in the end (you could tell he was left scratching his head after the race when he was interviewed by the BBC) Can't blame him though given he didn't really know exactly how the race unfolded at the time.

But looking back at the sequence of events around laps 38-39, the way things unfolded is quite interesting. We didn't hear the radio transmission (when Hamilton told the team he lost 3rd gear) until about a half lap after Button pitted. But the very strange and possibly telling part is, the first initial signs of Hamilton losing 3rd gear (onboard footage from lap 38 when he exits the hairpin) is about 20-30 seconds before Button's crew comes running out of the garage like their asses were on fire to get ready for a tire change. With this said, I wouldn't be suprised if the team had possibly known about Hamilton's gearbox issue as soon as it had happened (at the hairpin) and then decided to bring Button in ASAP to get him on some fresh rubber (as the "sandwhich" strategy at that point was already screwed due to Hamilton's injured car).

Lastly, if the team hadn't known about Hamilton's gearbox problem before Button pitted (which is a bit of a unknown - although they most likely did) I don't think there is a whole lot of evidence to say that they were trying to/or at least trying very hard to give Hamilton an advantage by holding up the RB's - because (as you know and most certainly Mclaren knew) the RB's were ready to run off into the distance once Button pitted - which would have completely nullified having Button stay out until only lap 39 (when he pitted).

The RBRs are fast, but there's little chance that they could run up in Button's dirty air safely and do an overtake on him on the slower parts of the track... he wasn't that much slower than them. They had to back off to preserve the cars.

Actually at that point I would say Button was MUCH slower than the RB's - a good 1.5 seconds a lap or so. The thing is, the RB's were looking at a ~3-4mph trap speed disadvantage compared to Button which meant it would have made things quite difficult for them (as usual with the RB) to make a non-Kobayashi (safe) move on Button who probably would have been a bit defensive at the very least. It's just too bad Alonso wasn't able to get close enough to force the RB's to either do something or risk getting overtaken...damn it

 

[Famine]

Didn't Button manage the third fastest lap of the race, on the slower tyres?

Edit: Nope, second fastest.

Webber - 1'33.474 (53)
Button - 1'33.529 (53)
Vettel - 1'33.653 (51)
Alonso - 1'33.823 (53)

These are the only four drivers to manage a 1'33 laptime. Between them they managed six 1'33 laps. Webber, Vettel and Alonso scored one each - Jenson put in three of them (1'33.889, lap 46; 1'33.841, lap 48). And he was on the slower tyres.

 

[waggles]

He would have been on the options at that point-they weren't really slower.

 

[The Outlaw]

Yea, the option would have still most likely been the faster tire on the same fuel loads at that point.

His best lap on the prime was only a 1'35.9

 

[Seismica]

I have to agree with the above.

They weren't really the slower tyre of the two, the option seemed to be much quicker, particularly when the circuit had rubbered in. His tyres were also relatively fresh towards the end, whereas the other drivers had ~30 lap old tyres.

But it was still pretty impressive to put in so many fast laps towards the end, in what is regarded as the slowest car of the top 3 teams at the current moment in time.

That said, before the gear problem he was slower than his teammate. I think Hamilton would have matched his times until the end of the race despite being on older tyres.

And i'm a Button fan, which automatically makes a critiscism of Button from me more credible

 

[The Outlaw]

I have to agree with the above.

They weren't really the slower tyre of the two, the option seemed to be much quicker, particularly when the circuit had rubbered in. His tyres were also relatively fresh towards the end, whereas the other drivers had ~30 lap old tyres.

But it was still pretty impressive to put in so many fast laps towards the end, in what is regarded as the slowest car of the top 3 teams at the current moment in time.

And i'm a Button fan.

I'm not sure, on this type of circuit I'd say Mclaren and Ferrari are pretty evenly matched...maybe the slight edge to Macca (evidenced by qualy and race pace).

No doubht the Ferrari is better all around (likely due to its much better compliance), but on the high speed/high DF circuit the Mclaren is very strong.

 

[Seismica]

I'm not sure, on this type of circuit I'd say Mclaren and Ferrari are pretty evenly matched.

No doubht the Ferrari is better all around (likely due to its much better compliance).

For qualifying I think Mclaren had the edge. But, for race pace I believe Ferrari were faster today. It was too bad we couldn't see Massa coming through the field to get a better representation of the car's speed.

 

[Famine]

No-one managed a comparative faster lap on options than prime over the whole weekend.

Button's fastest lap on the primes is only directly comparable to Nico Rosberg - the only other driver on a similar fuel load and similarly-aged tyres. He was 0.8s down on Button at the same load/age point (lap 37 on primes).

For qualifying I think Mclaren had the edge. But, for race pace I believe Ferrari were faster today. It was too bad we couldn't see Massa coming through the field to get a better representation of the car's speed.

He went through a field, then the field, then a field again. Not quite in the manner he'd have wanted.

 

[The Outlaw]

For qualifying I think Mclaren had the edge. But, for race pace I believe Ferrari were faster today. It was too bad we couldn't see Massa coming through the field to get a better representation of the car's speed.

I'm not sure about that either. Afterall, Hamilton was catching up to Alonso at a pretty good rate before his gearbox issue.

No-one managed a comparative faster lap on options than prime over the whole weekend.

Hence why we don't claim the option as being the "slower" tire, when 99% it is the quicker tire of the two. Also, if the prime was really the quicker tire I would have suspected most of the top teams to have had qualified on that tire.

 

[Seismica]

He went through a field, then the field, then a field again. Not quite in the manner he'd have wanted.

I'm not sure about that either. Afterall, Hamilton was catching up to Alonso at a pretty good rate before his gearbox issue.

Hamilton is a pretty quick driver... I don't think Alonso was pushing so hard to be honest. Not that he wasn't trying, but simply because there was no need to, the Red Bulls were too fast for him.

Hence why we don't claim the option as being the "slower" tire, when 99% it is the quicker tire of the two.

The option was most certainly the quickest in my opinion. Old primes are slower than relatively new options, is that really that big of a surprise?

 

[Famine]

Hence why we don't claim the option as being the "slower" tire, when 99% it is the quicker tire of the two. Also, if the prime was really the quicker tire I would have suspected most of the top teams to have had qualified on that tire.

If Button was on the slower tyre for qualifying and managed 0.6s off the pole time, we can't really claim he's in the slowest car of the top three teams.

Most of the top teams qualified on the option, ran a short stint (22 laps for Hamilton, 23 for Vettel and Alonso, 24 for Webber) with the car at its heaviest and slowest and the track at its greenest and slowest, ditched them and sent the lighter, faster cars on a rubbered-in circuit - ideal conditions for a fast, grippy tyre - on primes. We saw Mercedes pull Rosberg off the option before he'd even finished a racing lap! All the team interviews regarding tyres had the representatives remarking that they were surprised that the prime was the faster tyre, but that it just seemed to adapt to the green track better.

 

[The Outlaw]

Hamilton is a pretty quick driver...

No question, and so is Alonso

I don't think Alonso was pushing so hard to be honest. Not that he wasn't trying, but simply because there was no need to, the Red Bulls were too fast for him.

I don't believe that's true really. Afterall, we did hear the radio transmission between Alonso and Stella where Alonso basically said he was pushing to the max and had put in a clean lap to try and catch up to the lagging Red Bulls. That was on lap 35 where Hamilton continued to reel in Alonso by a few tenths a lap up until his gearbox issue on lap 39, despite the fact that Alonso was most certainly giving it his all to catch up to Webber (who was only a few seconds down the road and was getting caught up at a rate of ~ .5 - 1 second a lap - meaning Alonso certainly had reason to push with Button playing the blocker). What I'm getting at is that I don't think it was evident that the Ferrari had the better race pace here at Suzuka (as you claim), I think the evidence points to the contrary if anything. No doubt they were quite similar in pace though and nowhere near RB's level.

The option was most certainly the quickest in my opinion. Old primes are slower than relatively new options, is that really that big of a surprise?

You're asking the wrong person

If Button was on the slower tyre for qualifying and managed 0.6s off the pole time, we can't really claim he's in the slowest car of the top three teams..

Another interesting thing to note is that Button was fueled for 3 timed laps on the prime in qualy. He later remarked that the tires went off on the 2nd and 3rd laps, so it would have been best had he been fueled for just 1 timed lap. In which case he would have saved ~2 tenths worth the weight of fuel.

Most of the top teams qualified on the option, ran a short stint (22 laps for Hamilton, 23 for Vettel and Alonso, 24 for Webber) with the car at its heaviest and slowest and the track at its greenest and slowest, ditched them and sent the lighter, faster cars on a rubbered-in circuit - ideal conditions for a fast, grippy tyre - on primes. We saw Mercedes pull Rosberg off the option before he'd even finished a racing lap! All the team interviews regarding tyres had the representatives remarking that they were surprised that the prime was the faster tyre, but that it just seemed to adapt to the green track better.

Yea, I believe this was probably much more of the case during qualy when the track was quite green from the rain on the previous day. I'd imagine by the end of the race the track was quite rubbered in and the option would have been the quicker tire at that stage of the race. Either way, good point.

 

[happycorey]

Glad to hear Korean GP is a go

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Okay, crunching the numbers a bit going into Korea, and it's very definitely advantage Webber. If he wins any one of the last three races, then Sebastian Vettel and Fernando Alonso need to win the other two just to be able to stay in the hunt.

 

[happycorey]

But ONE DNF for Webber and everyone is right up on him. One win while he DNFs with Alonso right behind him and it's

Vettel-231
Alonso-224
Webber-220

These last races are going to be critical to get everything right and keeping Webber on the track regardless of his finish for him to win

 

[The Outlaw]

Okay, crunching the numbers a bit going into Korea, and it's very definitely advantage Webber. If he wins any one of the last three races, then Sebastian Vettel and Fernando Alonso need to win the other two just to be able to stay in the hunt.

You're thinking a bit too straight forward here. Even if Webber does happen to win the next race and either Vettel or Alonso were to come in second, the points gap would only be 21 from 1st to 2nd at that point. From there, who know's what in the hell could possibly happen. As Corey said, Webber could have a DNF which would quickly flip the script. And even if Vettel or Alonso were to only place 2nd in each and every race from here on out they could still mathematically win the title if Webber were to have poor results (say a 6th & 7th place - he would lose the Championship by 1 point then) in the remaining two races. At this point you can't rule anything out, especially being that Mclaren & Ferrari will likely be very strong at Korea and Abu Dhabi, and of course you can't count out the dark horse (Kubica) to get in the way and spoil things for some of the contenders.

But without a doubt, if Webber does win one of the remaining races, he will definitely be sitting pretty in the title picture if nothing unexpected happens.

The variable are absolutely insane in the remaining 3 races. It would be one thing if we were going to tracks that had RB written all over them (in fact they may be at a slight disadvantage in 2 out 3 of them), but IMO that will not be the case (especially if Mclaren get their aero package sorted & Ferrari come with their revised rear end for the next race - likely a revised main plane F-duct for more straightline speed down the massive straights at Korea and Abu Dhabi).

 

[Seismica]

I so wish Vettel hadn't have crashed into Button in Spa

Not only would Button be still very much in the running, but Mark Webber and Vettel would be on about the same, which would make things far more exciting.

I feel bad for Hamilton though. So many DNFs this season.

 

[The Outlaw]

I feel bad for Hamilton though. So many DNFs this season.

Same here. He's just had some dreaded luck, especially in the last few races as his Championship hopes have slowly slipped away from him Which must be pretty hard for him to deal with It would be one thing if he were about even with Alonso & Vettel at this stage of the Championship, but he has gone from comfortably leading the Championship just a few races ago, to now in time where he is well over a race win away in points with only 3 races remaining. Poor guy (I don't feel that bad for him...he still is lucky enough to be a F1 driver for christ sakes)

 

[Ardius]

McLaren aren't out of it yet, though its going to be very difficult. You never know though, Brazil always throws up an interesting race, so lets see what happens.

Certainly Webber would be a safe bet at this stage, but "safe bet" means very little in F1.

 

[MarkWebber]

Yeah I think If Webber can score podiums from here on end he'll be a safe bet

 

[BlacqueJacques]

Quite the tense championship battle; hope Mark Webber makes it to the end 👍

 

[happycorey]

I'm glad I started to watch F1 during this season. So many good drivers and it seems no matter how solid the car, the race can be flipped so easily. Rain could change everything last minute or even freak accidents.