2010 Formula One Japanese Grand Prix

[Ardius]

and she doesnt hold a stupid iPad all the time for no reason!

Not going to be dropped this, is it? I thought checking tweets, emails and notes would count as a "reason".

I thought Lee was ok but she struggled all weekend with the constant messages in her ear. Didn't really have the chemistry with DC and EJ but then that comes from time rather than ability or personality. I do dislike Jake's kind of confident air about him at times, especially when he tells people what they can go and do after finishing an interview. But even so, he otherwise does a good job.
I wouldn't mind either person being presenter. Kind of miss Lee as a reporter though, as Holly Samos is dreadful.

 

[Famine]

That's fair enough, but nothing has happened to Massa for what he did. 👎

I'm no Tifosi, but Massa put his car on the grass on the inside of turn one to avoid contact and, at that point, all bets were off. Bit harsh to blame him for the crash even though it was technically his fault.

 

[Robin]

Not going to be dropped this, is it? I thought checking tweets, emails and notes would count as a "reason".

If Lee can do the same job with a clipboard I don't see why Jake needs to permanently hold his beloved iPad! Plus he has never actually referred to it in any pre or post race broadcasts... only on the F1 forum. I must admit its my pet hate

I thought Lee was ok but she struggled all weekend with the constant messages in her ear. Didn't really have the chemistry with DC and EJ but then that comes from time rather than ability or personality. I do dislike Jake's kind of confident air about him at times, especially when he tells people what they can go and do after finishing an interview. But even so, he otherwise does a good job.
I wouldn't mind either person being presenter. Kind of miss Lee as a reporter though, as Holly Samos is dreadful.

With Jake it feels like your in a pub conversation, too much cockiness and too much joking about (one liners etc). Lee just is more comfortable on the ears and also on the eyes. She's clear and concise and its nice to have a women break up the all male commentary team. I particularly liked her coverage of the pit lane model boats! I do agree about the lack of chemistry with DC and Eddie though.

Holly Samos sounded evil, absolutely horrid and monotonic Put Jake as the roving reporter!

Robin.

 

[Ardius]

I'm no Tifosi, but Massa put his car on the grass on the inside of turn one to avoid contact and, at that point, all bets were off. Bit harsh to blame him for the crash even though it was technically his fault.

Indeed, and as the stewards + Alex Wurz decided, a racing incident. Unlike Petrov's incident which could have been avoided, Petrov was too eager to use his great start to blast past people and tried to overtake Hulkenburg and go around Heidfeld at the same time.

If Lee can do the same job with a clipboard I don't see why Jake needs to permanently hold his beloved iPad! Plus he has never actually referred to it in any pre or post race broadcasts... only on the F1 forum.

How do you know he doesn't refer to it during off-camera parts? Also, there are many times he uses it during pre and post race parts, anytime the cameras are focusing on DC or EJ, you can sometimes see Jake glancing at it from time to time to check various notes.

But really, the issue has never been the usefulness of the iPad has it? I find it incredibly pathetic people choose to criticise this so vehemently, it really makes no difference whatsoever to your or my experience.

 

[Famine]

Yes, I think Petrov was damned unlucky but he made a driver input which wiped another guy out. Massa was attempting to avoid a collision and ended up being the first on scene at a completely different collision.

 

[Robin]

How do you know he doesn't refer to it during off-camera parts? Also, there are many times he uses it during pre and post race parts, anytime the cameras are focusing on DC or EJ, you can sometimes see Jake glancing at it from time to time to check various notes.

But really, the issue has never been the usefulness of the iPad has it? I find it incredibly pathetic people choose to criticise this so vehemently, it really makes no difference whatsoever to your or my experience.

If he does refer to it the information that he gains clearly doesn't end up being relayed to us. I havent heard him say "oh and viewer has just tweeted this" etc.. So I guess he is checking Facebook then!

I can't speak for everyone else but I just don't see the need for it. If it makes him do his job better then fine (although I have yet to see it), but if its something that hinders him in any way then its not needed.

You decided to respond to that comment which was made in a somewhat joking way and wasnt the main point I was making. Vehemently defending it use is just as bad.

Robin.

 

[Ardius]

I just find it rediculous, I really can't believe people even care. Its like criticising the BBC team for their choice of shoes.
I'm sick of hearing/reading about it, change the tune!

 

[granturismite]

anyone else think algesuari(?) tried to take out kobayashi when he got overtaken?. a case of sour grapes if you ask me...

congrats red bull. a one-two. expected? yes, but still, it's about the excecution, not the predictions

 

[Joie de vivre!]

Any video out there with Hulk onboard camera and video of Rosberg's accident?

 

[Prince.M5]

Anyone else think Alguersuari tried to take out Kobayashi when he got overtaken?. A case of sour grapes if you ask me...

Sort of, but more to like delaying Kobayashi and expecting Kobayashi to give that place back to him. Probably just to cover up the shame that he was being overtaken by the driver that's going around the outside of the hairpin... Amazing performance by Kobayashi nonetheless.

EDIT: Fixed it for you, also please mind your capital letters to avoid problems in the near future

 

[Robin]

WAT? Get your facts right.

I checked the online BBC TV guide before I went to bed and they did not show they had rescheduled the qualifying. In the end it happened around 2 am. I didn't want to check other sites because I didn't want any spoilers.

So get your facts right... and learn to spell.

 

[F1GTR]

I agree, the coverage was all over the place and when I tuned in to see qualifying yesterday afternoon there was no explanation by the BBC as to why it wasn't on.

Then the actual qualifying happened early this morning and again it wasnt updated / listed on the web or anything. Then the race replay at 1pm was chopped up.

A quick search on the 'net would've given you all the info you needed. Race replays are usually chopped up if it was broadcast just a few hours ago anyway, plus you had the full coverage + F1 forum up on iPlayer by then.

However Lee Mckenzie was an excellent host, gosh I would love for them to get rid of Jake and put her in permanently. She is so much more personable and professional and she doesnt hold a stupid iPad all the time for no reason! What she does normally is just a waste of talent.

Good race though.

Robin.

I agree that she's a good host, but I can't help but shake the feeling you're simply hating on Jake simply because he uses an iPad. It works perfectly for his job, and if it was Lee that was using one instead of Jake you'd be here saying how you want Jake back. Oh, and I'd rather have the less personable and professional Jake with his iPad (in your words) than have EJ hit on Lee every five minutes.

 

[GTP_rpm]

Did anyone catch Crofty saying "leeroy jenkins" ?

 

[Robin]

A quick search on the 'net would've given you all the info you needed. Race replays are usually chopped up if it was broadcast just a few hours ago anyway, plus you had the full coverage + F1 forum up on iPlayer by then.

I didn't want to search on the net because at that point I didn't know that qualifying hadn't taken place and searching would have inevitably given away the line up (if it had happened). If I don't get to watch live I never check stuff to much because spoilers just hit you in the face the minute you go online. All the BBC needed to say at 1pm Sat was that qualy would take place at 2am Sun and everything would have been fine.

I have seen previous race replays shown in full, I guess they shortened this one because of the Deli games. Im watching everything in full on iPlayer right now.

I agree that she's a good host, but I can't help but shake the feeling you're simply hating on Jake simply because he uses an iPad. It works perfectly for his job, and if it was Lee that was using one instead of Jake you'd be here saying how you want Jake back. Oh, and I'd rather have the less personable and professional Jake with his iPad (in your words) than have EJ hit on Lee every five minutes.

Not true, I hated the guy the second he started presenting when the BBC got the rights back. Personally I wish they had taken ITV's Steve Ryder. Anyone holding something not visibly adding to their job is not needed in my opinion, that doesn't reflect on how I feel about the individual performance though. I just think Lee does it better and brings a different feel to the run up.

All EJ said was she looked glamorous

Robin.

 

[Akmuq]

I just find it rediculous, I really can't believe people even care. Its like criticising the BBC team for their choice of shoes.
I'm sick of hearing/reading about it, change the tune!

I really hate Eddie Jordan's shoes though.

 

[Sureboss]

The re-run of qualifying times were everywhere. It was on Ceefax at about 10/11am yesterday that it was going to be on at 2am this morning, likewise it was on the net not long after. Sky Planner was up to date at about 1PM when I checked.

Lee McKenzie was okay, nothing more, she didn't look at all comfortable, Holly Samos was awful as a reporter though.

 

[PeterJB]

That was an interesting weekend! Never seen someone crash on their way to the grid! Kobayashi kicked arse as usual! Another dull victory from Vettel, here's hoping these dull victories get him the title though.

 

[DK]

Two words - Kobayashi rocks. I love his crazy style, and how he basically says, "I don't care if you're in front of me, I'm getting through." Stick him in a Mercedes/Williams/Renault and he has a car that can get him on the podium.

 

[boiltheocean]

I checked the online BBC TV guide before I went to bed and they did not show they had rescheduled the qualifying. In the end it happened around 2 am. I didn't want to check other sites because I didn't want any spoilers.

So get your facts right... and learn to spell.

They did say numerous times it had been rescheduled to 2am. Also you could of found out by viewing the BBC iPlayer Motorsports guide. So please get your facts right and stop going on about that damn iPad. We get the fact you hate Jake using it and your covering it up with "Oh it has no use" excuse but the simple fact of the matter is you hate Apple products, if it were any other tablet you wouldn't bat an eyelid.

 

[Enigma]

I didn't want to search on the net because at that point I didn't know that qualifying hadn't taken place and searching would have inevitably given away the line up (if it had happened). If I don't get to watch live I never check stuff to much because spoilers just hit you in the face the minute you go online. All the BBC needed to say at 1pm Sat was that qualy would take place at 2am Sun and everything would have been fine.

I have seen previous race replays shown in full, I guess they shortened this one because of the Deli games. Im watching everything in full on iPlayer right now.

Robin.

I agree, I avoid most web pages in fear of a spoiler.

The iPlayer is your best bet, I watched qualy last night on it, it worked out better, with the talk of it not happening due to the weather I just fast forwarded it and realised it wasn't going to happen, so saved myself 2 hours of watching the rain fall.

Lee McKenzie was okay, nothing more, she didn't look at all comfortable, Holly Samos was awful as a reporter though.

I agree, she was ok nothing special, as others have mentioned some of Jakes comments to people can be a bit arrogant, that aside though he is much more entertaining than Lee and the banter between him, DC and EJ is hilarious.

TBH I couldn't give a toss about his iPad

 

[Robin]

The re-run of qualifying times were everywhere. It was on Ceefax at about 10/11am yesterday that it was going to be on at 2am this morning, likewise it was on the net not long after. Sky Planner was up to date at about 1PM when I checked.

Well as I already said in my previous post I just looked on the BBC's online listings before I went to bed and nothing was different, I've had too many race results spoiled simply by looking for listings online! Next time I'l be sure to check Ceefax if the page 100 headlines don't give the result away first!

They did say numerous times it had been rescheduled to 2am. Also you could of found out by viewing the BBC iPlayer Motorsports guide. So please get your facts right and stop going on about that damn iPad. We get the fact you hate Jake using it and your covering it up with "Oh it has no use" excuse but the simple fact of the matter is you hate Apple products, if it were any other tablet you wouldn't bat an eyelid.

The way you worded your post came across that you were denying that the qualifying took place at 2am, not the fact that accurate listings could be found. That is what I objected too so maybe you could have made your post clearer, preferably using more words.

My post was about Lee's hosting not about the iPad. Mentioning it in one sentence is not 'going on' about it. If I get quoted I reply and everyone is entitled to an opinion. And yes I hate Apple products so much that I own an iPod, Powerbook and a Powermac G5, the most expensive Mac of all!

Robin.

 

[The Outlaw]

I agree, she was ok nothing special, as others have mentioned some of Jakes comments to people can be a bit arrogant, that aside though he is much more entertaining than Lee and the banter between him, DC and EJ is hilarious.

TBH I couldn't give a toss about his iPad

I completely agree. Personally I like Jake and think he does a fine job. I think there is something special about the chemistry between him, DC, and EJ that I always find quite hilarious to watch I Can't say I was too entertained by Lee though

The one person I don't like all that much is Ted Kravitz. Something about the guy annoys the hell out of me at times. IMO he seems to like to hear himself talk too much and often just turns into a earless chatter box

Edit: I just watched the BBC post race forum and they did a nice overview of the start, and in particular the incident involving Petrov and Hulkenburg. I must say I will be extremely suprised and dissapointed if Petrov gets the Renault seat next year. Cutting across so blatantly early on Hulkenburg was pretty abismal for someone in the highest level of motorsports, not to mention in a car which has so much potential (which Kubica proved in the race). It would have been one thing if he just barely clipped Hulk's front wing and punctured a tire, but it was almost as if he thought he was driving a car which was the length of a go kart and completey disregarded the fact that he still had a meter or two until he was clear of Hulkenburg

 

[Robin]

Edit: I just watched the BBC post race forum and they did a nice overview of the start, and in particular the incident involving Petrov and Hulkenburg. I must say I will be extremely suprised and dissapointed if Petrov gets the Renault seat next year. Cutting across so blatantly early on Hulkenburg was pretty abismal for someone in the highest level of motorsports, not to mention in a car which has so much potential (which Kubica proved in the race). It would have been one thing if he just barely clipped Hulk's front wing and punctured a tire, but it was almost as if he thought he was driving a car which was the length of a go kart and completey disregarded the fact that he still had a meter or two until he was clear of Hulkenburg

Although Petrov's move was reckless I guess if your worried about loosing your seat next year and haven't been doing all that well the whole season you would gun it if you saw a gap. I think it was lack of experience and concentration (probably thinking about contracts!) that meant he didn't clear the front of the other car, maybe another driver could have made it stick. I really don't see him retaining the seat especially after today.

Kubica's incident was just a damn shame.

Robin.

 

[Ardius]

Renault kind of have to put that pressure on though, as they really need a good 2nd driver to back Kubica up, its probably cost them more money than Petrov's sponsors bring this year. The Russian market is important for Renault, but not so important that they are willing to risk results and constructors positions (and reward money!).
Shame though, as Petrov is decent enough for F1, he should be given a second chance, but maybe not with a top team. I fear he may have to pull out something pretty special in the last 3 races, and we're talking Kobayashi '09 special. I don't see it happening, maybe Renault will feel patient but the signs are not looking that way.

 

[The Outlaw]

Shame though, as Petrov is decent enough for F1, he should be given a second chance, but maybe not with a top team. I fear he may have to pull out something pretty special in the last 3 races, and we're talking Kobayashi '09 special. I don't see it happening, maybe Renault will feel patient but the signs are not looking that way.

Personally I don't feel he does, and today's rather clumsy incident was further evidence of why I feel he isn't up to par (especially being that he's already 26 and should be in his prime already). There are many other drivers who are more deserving in my eyes, such as Heidfield (who will likely be out of a seat next year) and Di Resta. But of course money does a lot of talking in regards to the Renault seat and getting a ride in F1 in general..but I can't say Petrov deserves to be in F1 on driving merit alone.

Out of the 3 rookies in the established teams, Kobayashi (who I consider a rookie) and Hulkenburg have shown much greater promise in inferior machinery this year and IMO have shown they deserve to compete in the highest level of racing. Petrov on the other hand has shown little signs of improvement despite the massive advancements the R30 has made over the course of the season, and still lags well behind Kubica and is often making rather unneccesary mistakes given how far off pace he is.

The next 3 races will be testing times for Petrov. It should be interesting to see how he responds.

 

[Ardius]

If you look at Petrov's history, you would give him some more time I'm sure .
Not everyone has spent years in karting and junior formulae.

And what's wrong with being 26? Damon Hill did just fine when he came in, why should all rookies be teenagers?

Petrov's rookie season has been decent, he hasn't made the best use of the car he's in but then he is a rookie. Not everyone can be a Hamilton in their first season. Hulkenburg was expected to do well and Kobayashi is a very special driver. I don't think its really fair to compare Petrov to them two, its better to compare him to say Buemi and Alguersuari.
I agree that he shouldn't be given a 2nd chance at Renault as they have bigger ambitions, but he should be given a chance elsewhere, at the very least with one of the new teams or something.

 

[yeti]

Barring the start-line overtakes:
Schumacher on Barrichello
Trulli on Yamamoto
Button on Hamilton

Only Schumacher's was due to his own handy work. Kobayashi created all of his overtakes except on Heidfeld.

Don't forget Hamilton vs Kobo...

Can I also remind you Ardius that you mentioned during the build up that there was only 1 place to overtake on this course - Casio...

Only 1 overtake there I think! (Schumi vs Rubens)

The rest were on the Hairpin or on the straight...

Also to add - Rosberg would've (probably) beaten Schumacher if his wheel hadn't fallen off?!

And out of curiousity - who mentioned that Kubica showed that the renault was a superior piece of machinery in the race? He only made turn 3 competitively... yes he had a good start - but Petrov had a better start had he not driven into Hulk he would've taken about 4 places... Kubica only managed 2.

C.

 

[Sureboss]

Thing is with Petrov, he's in a team with a very good #1 driver who is, I think, world champion material in the right car. That said, he clearly makes some glaring errors (more than most rookies I think) and is just so inconsistent. If he were consistent, even at a rather average level, some way behind his team mate, I'd have more trust in him. He's not had that many good results this season (5th at Hungary, helped somewhat by Hamilton and Kubica DNFs, and 7th at China just about fits in as a good result) and is quite often fighting for the wrong Q session.

His mid-season was terrible, 6 consecutive races without finishing higher than 11th and none of them were DNF's.

He is most certainly not in the right team, Kubica will make most Rookies look quite bad. He deserves another chance, even if I don't think he has the talent of some of the rookies he used to race against in GP2. But where? Virgin?

 

[Ardius]

Don't forget Hamilton vs Kobo...

Can I also remind you Ardius that you mentioned during the build up that there was only 1 place to overtake on this course - Casio...

Only 1 overtake there I think! (Schumi vs Rubens)

The rest were on the Hairpin or on the straight...

Also to add - Rosberg would've (probably) beaten Schumacher if his wheel hadn't fallen off?!

And out of curiousity - who mentioned that Kubica showed that the renault was a superior piece of machinery in the race? He only made turn 3 competitively... yes he had a good start - but Petrov had a better start had he not driven into Hulk he would've taken about 4 places... Kubica only managed 1.

C.

Well, I also said that overtaking at the hairpin was too risky and seeing as no one except for Kobayashi ever tried it, I don't think I said anything wrong. Go look back through the races over the years, you won't find many overtakes at the hairpin, hence why Kobayashi's race was bloody amazing - his overtakes required the drivers ahead to realise he was there and leave the room. He was lucky that all of them noticed in time, as they were almost all divebomb overtakes.

Schumacher had faster pace than Rosberg all race. Even if he hadn't overtaken him, I wouldn't consider it a "victory" on Rosberg's part. I would still commend Schumacher on finally finding some good pace.

I don't really see the comparison between Kubica and Petrov....one is starting behind Red Bulls, one is starting behind Saubers, Williams and Force Indias. Which is easier? People aren't referring to the race when they refer to Kubica showing what the car can do - they are referring to the qualifying and all the races previous!
Renault have been getting good starts all year, its not surprising Petrov got a good start. He also benefitted from a slow Rosberg off the line (backed the pack behind him up). Whereas Kubica only benefitted from a slow Alonso (Kubica started alongside him, so it didn't benefit his start as much compared to Petrov's).

Thing is with Petrov, he's in a team with a very good #1 driver who is, I think, world champion material in the right car. That said, he clearly makes some glaring errors (more than most rookies I think) and is just so inconsistent. If he were consistent, even at a rather average level, some way behind his team mate, I'd have more trust in him. He's not had that many good results this season (5th at Hungary, helped somewhat by Hamilton and Kubica DNFs, and 7th at China just about fits in as a good result) and is quite often fighting for the wrong Q session.

His mid-season was terrible, 6 consecutive races without finishing higher than 11th and none of them were DNF's.

He is most certainly not in the right team, Kubica will make most Rookies look quite bad. He deserves another chance, even if I don't think he has the talent of some of the rookies he used to race against in GP2. But where? Virgin?

Ok, I don't think anyone is going to bother looking this up, so I'll just cut to the chase:

Petrov's experience consists of:
2 years of Ladas.
3 years of various Formula Renault races/more Ladas.
4 years of GP2.

Its amazing he even got to the front on pace in GP2 with so little experience (compared to the average driver). I think he deserves a little longer than your average rookie (which by the way, takes more than 1 year to really get to grips anyway). He has shown promise at times, at least as much as Buemi and Alguersuari have and no one is saying they should give up their seats?
It seems the standard for rookies has been raised to incredibly high heights. Its rare for drivers to be like Kobayashi and Hamilton, quick straight out of the box.

 

[yeti]

I think you missed my point about Kubica... yes - he's driven a lot better than Petrov all season (suprised?) but in this race he didn't make it very far (no fault of his own of course)... That was my point when faced with the comment

"Cutting across so blatantly early on Hulkenburg was pretty abismal for someone in the highest level of motorsports, not to mention in a car which has so much potential (which Kubica proved in the race).

(Which doesn't appear to mention anything about other races - seems pretty specific to this one!)

RE: Overtakes... yes - and no... Main straight saw 1 overtake today - and almost 2... (Schu vs Rosberg)

RE Schu vs Rosberg - again yes and no... had Rosberg finished ahead then it would clearly have been a victory... he qualified ahead of Michael and (would've) finished ahead... except for an absymal start - drove pretty well today (pretty good save at 130R (Although not as impressive as Sutil's (although not 100% sure he meant that!))) and swapped onto an interesting strategy - but made it work... and was on for some good points!

BTW - what happened to Di Grassi - I only saw the aftermath this morning - missed the convo about it.

C.