2011 Australian Grand Prix

But they're not obligated to. A lot of people seem to thik that because Toro Rosso is the Red Bull junior team, the only people who can drive for Red Bull must first go through Toro Rosso. Red Bull have to take the best driver available to them, especially if they want more Constructors' crowns. If Alguersuari and Buemi squander the STR6's potential, why should Red Bull reward them with a car that is likely to be worthy of championships?

The whole point of Toro Rosso existing is so Red Bull can try out new drivers and evaluate them for their "proper" effort. It also helps their driver management business if they display a commitment to giving their drivers chances.
While obviously they would jump at the chance to grab proven great drivers if necessary, I do think Buemi and Alguesuari have potential..enough for Red Bull to prefer them over Kobayashi.
 
Yay! Formula One is back, and so is my unrivaled extreme Red Bull fanboyism!

This being the first race of the season, I can't make too many accurate predictions. I'm of course hoping for a 1-2 from RBR. But I'm not too sure how the rest of the field will line up. I'll have to get a few races in until I can really grasp where everyone falls. But I'm really looking forward to a good and exciting race weekend! I'm glad to see Melbourne as the opening race again. 👍
 
So Schumacher was quite fast in testing. You guys think he's got any chance for a good result in Australia?

It's all up to the team and the car they provide, I'm afraid. It's not like he's slower now...it's merely the car. :ouch:
 
The whole point of Toro Rosso existing is so Red Bull can try out new drivers and evaluate them for their "proper" effort.
I'm aware of that. But if the Toro Rosso drivers fail to impress, why should they get a Red Bull seat simply because Red Bull have a vacancy?

If Webber leaves Red Bull at the end of 2011 - whether for retirement or for another team - then I'm expecting a bidding war over Kobayashi.
 
Sorry for the double-post, but I've just gleaned something very important from the 5pm news: the low pressure system that has caused flash flooding in Bega, the Illawarra and Shoalhaven (where I grew up), is heading south towards Victoria.
 
Heidfield to surprise. Don't forget he has experience of Pirelli's from testing last year. Also, Lotus to get up in Q2.

This. With the R31 looking really strong through testing, and with his advantage of knowing the tires, Heidfeld is the dark horse of the race IMHO.
 
I'll echo that of others: I'm so glad the season is finally going to start. :D

Just as last year I'll be watching out for Kobayashi, rooting for Mark, and looking for Rubens to be competitive. Also looking forward to seeing if Schumi has any of that competitive edge left in him...in shone through a couple of times (namely when he almost killed Rubens) and toward the end of the season he seemed to pick up pace.

Question: I haven't been keeping up with everyone...what's the deal with Incredible Hulk?
 
Question: I haven't been keeping up with everyone...what's the deal with Incredible Hulk?
Williams were in a position where they lost four major sponsors in one hit. They were forced to make a decision: keep Hulkenberg and risk the team dying, or release Hulkenberg and find someone who could pay. When Hulkenberg refused to secure sponsors for the team, they let him go. They tried to place him at Hispania, but he turned them down. Virgin made an offer, but he said no to them as well. In the end, he was bidding for the second Force India alongside Adrian Sutil, but the seat went to Paul di Resta (who was runaway favourite). Hulkenberg settled for the test and reserve role, with guaranteed running in winter testing and Friday practice.

Personally, I think it was a bad move. He should have taken the Hispania seat. It might not be the most glorious job in the world, but it would have seen him race for a year and given him a chance to impress and maybe get a better seat for 2012. As it is, the earliest he can get into a race cockpit is 2012, and if he thinks he can land at Red Bull or McLaren or Mercedes, he's out of his mind. Those teams would already have plans for who their next drivers will be, and because he's sitting 2011 out, Hulkenberg is not a part of those plans when he could have been if he'd swallowed his pride and found a sponsor or gone to Hispania.
 
It's been a long time since I see a thread like this. Feels great we'll be starting a new season in just a couple of days time... I'm expecting Red Bull to shine, Nick to show his potential, Kobayashi to attack and Team Lotus to break into the points.
 
I'm aware of that. But if the Toro Rosso drivers fail to impress, why should they get a Red Bull seat simply because Red Bull have a vacancy?

If Webber leaves Red Bull at the end of 2011 - whether for retirement or for another team - then I'm expecting a bidding war over Kobayashi.

I thought I already covered that - because its good for their driver management business. What's the point sigining up to a programme which claims to give drivers a chance to reach F1 and potentially race with a top team if you are not actually going to use them? While they will always have drivers to choose as very few people would turn down the offer of sponsorship all the way to F1, it might be more difficult for them to sign up the top drivers if they don't feel driving for Toro Rosso is actually any benefit for them. Especially because Toro Rosso have a pretty bad record of driver management with very few drivers leaving with reputations intact.

The best scenario for Red Bull is if both drivers are products of their driver management programmes and they are there on clear merit. I don't consider Buemi or Alguesuari as super-talents but I think they are decent, enough for Red Bull to be willing to give them the chance.
 
With the Drag Reduction System and Pirelli tires, it should be an interesting start to the season.

Here's to the start of another F1 season! 👍
 
Sorry for the double-post, but I've just gleaned something very important from the 5pm news: the low pressure system that has caused flash flooding in Bega, the Illawarra and Shoalhaven (where I grew up), is heading south towards Victoria.
I don't know what I'm going to do if Australia is postponed also.
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edit: I didn't think this deserved an entire thread, but thought it was worth sharing. I'm sure I'm not the only one that checks Formula1.com daily.

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Button samples Mount Panorama track in a Formula One car

McLaren’s Jenson Button became the first driver to tackle Australia’s iconic Mount Panorama circuit in a Formula One race car on Tuesday. Button completed five laps of the legendary Bathurst track at the wheel of an MP4-23 before handing the car over to five-time Bathurst champion Craig Lowndes.

“This place is fantastic,” Button said. “Television just doesn’t do it justice. That was phenomenal. It was such a rush. Once you get over the straights being quite hard to control the car over it is such a pleasure. I was holding on tight all the way. It takes everything out of you.

“As a driver you have your favourite tracks. Like Macau and Silverstone for instance. But this is the one I haven’t had the possibility of driving. It was the experience I’ve wanted to have for many years and I’ve finally done it. In a way it’s probably not a good thing because it’s made me hungrier to come back.”

The unique event, which was organised by Vodafone with the support of Bathurst Council, was inspired by Button himself. After taking Jamie Whincup’s V8 Supercar for a spin around Melbourne’s Albert Park circuit last year, he declared his desire to sample ‘The Mountain’. The Briton also had the chance to experience the track in a V8 car.

source: http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/3/11836.html
more pictures: http://www.formula1.com/gallery/other/2011/611.html
 
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Hmmm - Auckland Beer Festival on Saturday - might not be in a sober enough state to watch Quali at 7!! Hmmm!!

Sunday night's entertainment well planned though - most excellent!

I'm expecting RB to be quick - Alonso to be up there - and McLaren to either be very quick or broken...

Of the midfield - Merc & Renault next - with Toro Rosso and Sauber fighting them every inch of the way...

Sounds like Force India could be in trouble with Lotus & maybe Virgin breathing down their necks - hope so!!

All bets are off for HRT!!

C.
 
I found this to be a good read.

Red Bull
1 Sebastian Vettel
2 Mark Webber
Red Bull-Renault RB7

A year ago Red Bull boss Dietrich Mateschitz made it clear that he expected his burgeoning team to deliver a world championship. It looked at times as if they were deliberately seeking a means by which to make things as difficult for themselves as possible, but in the end they came up with not one, but two, the constructors’, which they clinched in Brazil, and then the drivers’ which Sebastian Vettel wrapped up in the dramatic finale in Abu Dhabi. Can they do it again?

Well, don’t rule out some serious Red Bull domination. For the first time design guru Adrian Newey (whose cars have now won for three different teams) got his new contender out early, and pre-season test form has shown the RB7 not only to be fast in qualifying and race trim, but also fearsomely reliable.

Factor in Mark Webber, who will be fitter and more determined than ever, and it is going to be very difficult to beat the team from Milton Keynes.

McLaren
3 Lewis Hamilton
4 Jenson Button
McLaren-Mercedes MP4-26

Oh, oh. The signs this early in the season have not been favourable for McLaren. They deliberately ‘did a Red Bull’ and did not introduce their new car, the MP4-26, until as late as possible. But seemingly the plan has thus far backfired.

The new car looks the part, with its L-shaped sidepod intakes and trick rear end, but reliability issues dogged its progress in the three tests that it did, and the team have logged only about half the testing mileage of either Red Bull or Ferrari. That’s down to some technical issues which saw rear end problems - believed to have centred around the exhausts - seriously impinging on the test programme.

Jenson Button said he thought the balance was better when an upgrade went on the car for the final Barcelona test, while Lewis Hamilton has suggested that they haven’t really been able to put all the factors together at once, so that their form seems worse than it really is. Equally, however, the 2008 champion says the car is not yet a title winner... There’s much work to be done here.

Ferrari
5 Fernando Alonso
6 Felipe Massa
Ferrari 150° Italia

It is not possible to overstate just how much it burned Ferrari to have fumbled their world championship chance in Abu Dhabi last year. They were gutted. But where years ago heads would have rolled, Luca di Montezemolo and Stefano Domenicali simply pulled their troops back together over the winter and the Scuderia looks every bit as dangerous as it did at its title-winning best, even if the team did initially run into trouble with the Ford Motor Company after initially christening its 2011 contender the F150. The way it’s been going in testing suggests that nobody is likely to mistake it for a pick-up truck; it’s the one car that genuinely looks as if it is ready to give the Red Bulls a run for their money.

Alonso is raring to go, and remains what he has so long been: one of the two best drivers out there. If Vettel starts favourite, the Spaniard is right up there at his shoulder. Meanwhile, Felipe Massa knows that he has to deliver solid results this year, if he is to retain his Ferrari seat.

Mercedes GP
7 Michael Schumacher
8 Nico Rosberg
Mercedes MGP W02

The final test in Barcelona changed the way observers thought about Mercedes’ hitherto disappointing MGP W02 challenger. Up until then it had been generally disappointing, rather like the McLaren, but a significant upgrade transformed the car into something that was impressively quick in short runs. It remains to be seen how fast it is over a race distance, and the feeling persists that Red Bull and Ferrari will be the outright pacesetters, with Mercedes chasing them ahead of McLaren and Renault.

Michael Schumacher and Nico Rosberg both believe that the team, whose purchase from the former Brawn principals was finalised at the beginning of the month, now have the platform from which to make the significant progress that they lacked in 2010.

Schumacher said recently that while he does not believe they can challenge for the world championship, he does think podiums will be possible, while Rosberg will be going all out to prove that his dominance of the older German last year was no fluke.

Renault
9 Nick Heidfeld
10 Vitaly Petrov
Renault R31

Renault may have rallied quickly around Nick Heidfeld, but there is no doubt that Robert Kubica’s rally accident will have a very debilitating effect on the chances of a team that showed such promise in initial testing. The Pole has speed, commitment and charisma in spades and just loves driving an edgy car that gives its best at the very limit. Heidfeld is older and less aggressive, and prefers an easier car to drive. That difference may prove critical. That said, the German is a safe pair of hands, but one can’t help wonder whether the team would have been better off with Vitantonio Liuzzi, whom Kubica recommended.

Vitaly Petrov far from disgraced himself in his first season, despite a few heavy shunts, and his containment of Fernando Alonso in Abu Dhabi was indication of the progress he’d made.

Renault’s test form has been difficult to assess accurately, but their trick exhaust system has attracted a lot of interest and several other teams are investigating similar solutions. Expect Renault to challenge McLaren for fourth overall in the early going.

Williams
11 Rubens Barrichello
12 Pastor Maldonado
Williams-Cosworth FW33

In Rubens Barrichello and reigning GP2 champion Pastor Maldonado, Williams have two very aggressive drivers. And now they have an aggressive car too, in Sam Michael’s FW33 which features one of the most tightly packaged rear-ends in the business.

The team have full sponsorship for 2011 and were recently floated on the German stock market, so things are looking up and there is an air of confident determination to get back to mixing it with the top teams the way that last happened at times during the ill-fated alliance with BMW.

Michael said in 2010 that Barrichello was the best driver he had ever worked with in F1, and the evergreen Brazilian still has much to give. Maldonado is an unknown quantity thus far in F1, but the Venezuelan brings welcome financial support from his national oil company, and could spring some surprises.

Force India
14 Adrian Sutil
15 Paul Di Resta
Force India-Mercedes VJM04

Out goes Tonio Liuzzi and in comes promising Scottish rookie Paul di Resta. Part of the Anthony Hamilton-managed youngster’s dowry is reportedly Mercedes’ KERS system, and that should help the Silverstone-based team to fight hard for its place in the upper midfield.

Adrian Sutil stays for another year, after plans to have him replace Felipe Massa at Ferrari fell apart in the aftermath of last year’s team orders argument. This will be a crucial season for the German, who showed great pace in 2010 allied to the occasional brain fade (Korea springs to mind). Di Resta will be praying for better reliability than Liuzzi enjoyed (notably with his car’s F-duct), and the man who beat Vettel to the European F3 title is itching to show that he can do the same to Sutil.

Sauber
16 Kamui Kobayashi
17 Sergio Perez
Sauber-Ferrari C30

Confounding the critics, Peter Sauber’s little team regrouped again in 2010 after the departure of BMW. Times were still tough for the men and women from Hinwil, even though there was some helpful BMW cash to smooth the transition, but they made it.

Along the way they acquired James Key from Force India as long-time technical director Willy Rampf retired, and the Englishman did not lose much time pointing the C29 in the right direction. At the same time Kamui Kobayashi established a reputation as a racer that was only marginally diminished by a penchant for long opening stints which meant he was later able to use fresher rubber to embarrass rivals towards the end of a race. Good tyre management will be a feature of 2011 races, so watch him.

In GP2 runner-up Sergio Perez, Kobayashi has a team mate who will push him all the way and the money that the fiery young Mexican brings from Telmex will undoubtedly help the team.

Toro Rosso
18 Sebastien Buemi
19 Jaime Alguersuari
Toro Rosso-Ferrari STR6

This time last year Sebastien Buemi and Jaime Alguersuari had been setting some very quick times during testing for Franz Tost’s Red Bull-supported satellite team. But in the races the STR5 disappointed more often than not. This time around the story looks the same, and even Lewis Hamilton was recently moved to suggest that the STR6 might spring a surprise.

But will all that apparent promise just turn out to have been some low-fuel grandstanding in an attempt to draw attention to a team that still needs to find decent funding? Time will tell, but it would indeed be surprising to see an outfit that has to design its own car these days being able to run at the pace of one penned by Adrian Newey.

Meanwhile, Buemi and Alguersuari will be looking over their shoulders in the first half of the season as World Series by Renault racer Daniel Ricciardo is waiting for the chance to step into one of their seats at the midpoint.

Lotus
20 Jarno Trulli
21 Heikki Kovalainen
Lotus-Renault T128

By the time his team heads to his native Malaysia, Tony Fernandes should know whether he can still use the Team Lotus name, as the court case with Group Lotus will be heard in London’s High Court during the Australian Grand Prix. But regardless of the outcome, the AirAsia boss has clearly won the right to race at the highest level.

Last year’s start-up T127 was a necessarily conservative machine intended simply to get the team racing. This year technical director Mike Gascoyne has been more adventurous with the aerodynamics, while mating the chassis to a Renault rear end complete with the pull-rod rear suspension made fashionable again on last year’s Red Bull RB6.

With Jarno Trulli and Heikki Kovalainen, Lotus have two proven race winners who can deliver the goods, and who should be able to challenge Toro Rosso and Force India if either of those more established teams falter. Reliability issues in testing, however, will be an early concern.

HRT
22 Narain Karthikeyan
23 Vitantonio Liuzzi
HRT-Cosworth F111

On the face of it HRT are in as much trouble in 2011 as they were heading to the first race of 2010 when neither of their cars had turned a wheel, after the sleek new F111 was unable to run as planned in the last Barcelona test. Ironically, the team’s national customs held up their dampers.

However, the new car comes from respected F1 designer Geoff Willis of BAR and Red Bull fame, and the statement livery from famed Hollywood designer Daniel Simon signals a clear intention by team principal Colin Kolles to move far away from the drab grey image the team had in its rookie season.

Signing Narain Karthikeyan, who last raced in F1 in 2005, is something of a gamble but makes sense as he brings strong budget from Tata and can be quick when the mood is upon him, while opting for Force India refugee Tonio Liuzzi is clear indication that Kolles values speed, experience and technical ability over other ‘renta-drivers’ potential budgets.

Virgin
24 Timo Glock
25 Jerome D’ambrosio
Virgin-Cosworth MVR-02

Like Lotus and HRT, Virgin defied the pessimists and go into 2011 stronger than ever thanks to recent investment by Marussia. The result is a sound financial position and enhanced management, but the early signs are that the latest car from Nick Wirth is some way off the pace. Glock, the tough German racer who is recovering from a recent appendectomy, admits that they are some way off realising their early season targets. D’Ambrosio, the quick young Belgian who replaces Brazilian Lucas di Grassi, will find his graduation to race seat status even harder as a result.

It brings up some good points. I do think McLaren will be struggling to keep up with Renault and Mercedes. Ferrari and Red Bull will be fighting for a win.
 
What's the point sigining up to a programme which claims to give drivers a chance to reach F1 and potentially race with a top team if you are not actually going to use them?
What's the point of signing drivers from the development programme if they haven't impressed enough to warrant a top-flight drive?

Red Bull have to take the best driver available when a vacant seat opens up. If that driver isn't a part of the development programme, it's not the end of the world. Imagine you were in Red Bull's position, needing to find a new driver. Who do you take? A fast driver who is not a part of the development programme, or a slow one who is? What is more important - preserving the development programme, or fighting for WCC position?
 
What's the point of signing drivers from the development programme if they haven't impressed enough to warrant a top-flight drive?

Red Bull have to take the best driver available when a vacant seat opens up. If that driver isn't a part of the development programme, it's not the end of the world. Imagine you were in Red Bull's position, needing to find a new driver. Who do you take? A fast driver who is not a part of the development programme, or a slow one who is? What is more important - preserving the development programme, or fighting for WCC position?

I have to agree with you on this one. There are rumours that either toro rosso driver could be replaced mid season. So it's unlikely that RBR would be considering Alguersuari or Buemi unless either of them improve drastically this season. It looks like toro rosso have a good car this year, so It will be a good indicator whether or not they can handle things towards the sharper end of the grid. The order would have to come from Dietrich Mateschitz, but I don't think he'd put someone in a world championship winning team, when most drivers on the grid would jump for a chance to join his team.

Toro Rosso is a driver development programme, not a guaranteed stepping stone to red bull racing. Young drivers can still join toro rosso and have a chance to prove they can perform at the top level, but it is unlikely they'll progress from there unless they can prove their worth. It's crunch time for Alguersuari and Buemi. I just hope that if they perform well, they will be kept.
 
Okay, crazy-stupid idea time. This might be my most brilliant or my most insane one to date:

Ron Walker has said that if it comes down to it, the Australian Grand Prix will move from Albert Park to a permanent venue from 2015. Given the success and the hype surrounding Jenson Button and Craig Lowndes doing laps of Mount Panorama in a Formula 1 car, the suggestion is this: re-create The Mountain as the new home of the Autralian Grand Prix.

The big problem with Bathurst at the moment is that it would be impossible to get it up to FIA Grade-1 certification standards, largely because of the steep drops beyond the barriers in a few places (one somersault a la Mark Webber at Valencia in the wrong place, and we'd likely have the first driver death since 1994 on our hands), and a significant stretch of circuit (Griffin's Bend to Forrest's Elbow) where there is no access for safety vehicles. Theoretically, you could bring Mount Panorama up to standard, but it would be very expensive and most likely neutralise the character of the circuit.

However, if the organisers of the Australian Grand Prix could find a tract of land somewhere outside Melbourne - and there's some good stuff both east and west of the city - with two hundred metres of elevation, then could set Hermann Tilke the task of re-creating The Mountain inch by square inch, incorporating all the necessary safety features as he goes, and possibly making Conrod Straight a little more comfortable for them to drive. That way, Formula 1 could race at "Mount Panorama" without desecrating the original circuit and still being safe for Formula 1.

Like I said: it's genius or insanity (even if I do say so myself). I think it could be done. But if not, and if the race still has to move to a permanent venue outside the city, then don't bother drawing up plans. Just replicate Albert Park. Why fix what isn't broken?
I found this to be a good read.
I found it to be horrible. Read through it again, and ask yourself the following question: how does this affect Tonio Liuzzi?

1) The author is critical of Renault for taking Heidfeld over Liuzzi.
2) He refers to a planned move for Sutil to go to Ferrari in 2010, which would have preserved Liuzzi's seat at Force India - but I cannot find any rumours (much less substantial evidence) that this was ever considered.
3) He directly implies that Alguersuari and Buemi will be too busy looking over their shoulders for fear of being replaced by Daniel Ricciardo to make good on the STR6's potential.
4) Virtually the only relevant thing he mentions for Tony Fernandes' Lotus is that they have had reliability problems; everything else is about the court case with Group Lotus and the Renault engine deal when most other teams get assessments of their drivers' worth and a recap of major technical ideas.
5) He fails to mention that Virgin's development programme has revolve around fixing their reliability issues (which Virgin has been quick to mention at every opportunity), and insinuates that Timo Glock will not be at full health for some time because of his surery, despite his doctors telling him he will be fine to race in Melbourne.
6) He suggests that Geoff Willis' presence at Hispania will make up for their lack of testing and their speed defecit.
7) He goes on to describe Liuzzi as being fast, experienced and technically adept, despite the fact that he was consistently out-qualified and out-raced by Sutil in 2010, while he has less than eighteen months' recent experience racing, and has never really shown any outstanding technical proficiency the way drivers like Schumacher and Barrichello do.

In summation, the season preview ('Tonio Liuzzi preview' might be a better name for it) appears to have been written by the president and founder of the Tonio Liuzzi fanclub, Joe Saward. He subtley plays down the chances of the tail-enders, while criticising teams that did not make decisions which would benefit Liuzzi and ignoring the shortcomings of Hispania and Liuzzi himself. He was on the receiving end of a lot of criticism a while ago when Force India dropped Liuzzi in favour of di Resta, where he clearly let his emotions and opinions dictate his actions as a journalist. The short version of the article basically said that because Force India had bought Liuzzi out of his contract, the other drivers would support him to prevent the same thing happening to them (though they didn't do it for Kimi Raikkonen), and detailing a non-existant legal case for Liuzzi to take to Force India in order to keep his seat. He faced a major backlash from his readers (and the wider fan community once word of it got out) for such an unprofessional article, and breifly considered shutting the blog down. He hasn't mentioned Liuzzi since, except to say that he first tested with and later signed for Hispania. He appears to be trying to avoid all mention of the man, but now that he's written up an article without a byline, the old prejudices have seeped back in.
 
McLaren's worries are worrying. 2010 found them on the wrong end of the development curve, and they never seemed to catch up to RBR and Ferrari... and 2011 doesn't appear to be any different. While they're good at achieving results, and they're massively experienced at developing a good car, starting off on the back foot is never a good thing.

Be an interesting race to watch... since Aussie time is very nearly the same as our time, I'll be having a very good afternoon this Sunday.
 
Can't wait for this one. Heidfeld win and Petrov 4th.
It's a shame Kubica won't be here and probably will miss the rest of the year a well.:(

Anyways I just want to warn people from England and Ireland. On Saturday night, or Sunday morning, the clocks go forward one hour so I think you will hav to set your alarm to 5AM. I'm not entirely sure though.
 
Williams were in a position where they lost four major sponsors in one hit. They were forced to make a decision: keep Hulkenberg and risk the team dying, or release Hulkenberg and find someone who could pay. When Hulkenberg refused to secure sponsors for the team, they let him go. They tried to place him at Hispania, but he turned them down. Virgin made an offer, but he said no to them as well. In the end, he was bidding for the second Force India alongside Adrian Sutil, but the seat went to Paul di Resta (who was runaway favourite). Hulkenberg settled for the test and reserve role, with guaranteed running in winter testing and Friday practice.

Personally, I think it was a bad move. He should have taken the Hispania seat. It might not be the most glorious job in the world, but it would have seen him race for a year and given him a chance to impress and maybe get a better seat for 2012. As it is, the earliest he can get into a race cockpit is 2012, and if he thinks he can land at Red Bull or McLaren or Mercedes, he's out of his mind. Those teams would already have plans for who their next drivers will be, and because he's sitting 2011 out, Hulkenberg is not a part of those plans when he could have been if he'd swallowed his pride and found a sponsor or gone to Hispania.

I can't say I like that at all. Now he has to sit on the sidelines because he had a bit of an ego trip? He should have just taken the seat at Hispania and worked just as hard as he did last season. He pulled one upset at Sao Paulo, why not prove that even in a lesser performing car you can still blind the top teams?
 
Pride comes before a fall. Hulkenberg enjoyed the support of Williams all through his career, not unlike Hamilton at McLaren. Now doubt he seemed to think he could ride that through his career. But he's no Lewis Hamilton, and he seems oblivious to the fact that most drivers bring sponsorship to their teams, and not a few of them have more impressive results than a shock pole in variable conditions. If I were Frank Williams, I'd have dropped Hulkenberg the moment he showed that attitude.
 
interludes, in regard to the first part of your tl;dr post: I think half the appeal of the Mt Panorama track is the scenery, and recreating that would be very hard and cost heaps, which kind of kills the point of moving away from Melbourne, which is that it's too expensive.
 
interludes, in regard to the first part of your tl;dr post: I think half the appeal of the Mt Panorama track is the scenery, and recreating that would be very hard and cost heaps, which kind of kills the point of moving away from Melbourne, which is that it's too expensive.
If you can't be bothered reading, then you shouldn't bother posting.
 
If you can't be bothered reading, then you shouldn't bother posting.

If you can't be bothered thinking, then you shouldn't bother posting.

If you take away the steep drops around Mount Panorama such as building an identical track on "safer" land, it takes away half of the spectacle of such a track. This is the point lukecfc is making.

While Bathurst is an awesome track, F1 can never race there and creating an identical track would be extremely expensive and quite pointless. Albert Park is a fine track - why fix something that isn't broke? If F1 has to leave Melbourne, I'd much prefer to see Adelaide make a come back.
 
I think it's gonna be a Red Bull 1-2, hopefully Mark leading Seb for an emotional win.

I'm also gonna go out on a limb here and predict that Perez will beat Kobayashi, I've never been convinced of Kamui's outright pace. And talk of Red Bull signing him? Nah, I can see Ricciardo replacing one of the Toro Rosso lads at midpoint and then perform strong enough for Red Bull to take more and more notice.
 
If you take away the steep drops around Mount Panorama such as building an identical track on "safer" land, it takes away half of the spectacle of such a track. This is the point lukecfc is making.
The point he is making is that the scenery is the spectacle. It's not. If you built Yas Marina at the top of a mountain with stunning scenery, would it make it a better circuit? No.

Bathurst works because of the challenge it provides. And that challenges comes in the way the circuit follows the topography of the land, not the view from the top. With a little bit of terraforming, you could easily re-create it - but without the sheer-sided drops over one side, access points for marshalls and emergency crews and with an appropriate amount of space for run-off on the outside.

It wouldn't look exactly the same as the existing circuit, but it wouldn't be too difficult to make a fair representation of it. All you'd have to do is find a tract of land that would be a) large enough to hold the circuit, and b) rises over two hundred metres. Then it's just a case of sculpting the land in the appropriate places to get the desired effect, with a little extra moved for run-off.

Bee
I've never been convinced of Kamui's outright pace.
I was notoriously sceptical of him to begin with, but that mostly had to do with people over-hyping him. He won F1 Fanatic's "Pass of the Year" title for his move on Jenson Button at Abu Dhabi in 2009, but when you really thought about it, Button was coming out of the pits, fuel-heavy and on fresh tyres and almost on top of a light-running Kobayashi. The pass itself was actually pretty foolhardy, and he nearly took both of them out of the race. If he had waited ten seconds more, Kobayashi would have gotten past Button. Given the conditions, I probably could have made the pass stick. So I was more concerned that people would talk Kobayashi up based on two races, and when he failed to deliver the next year, everyone would demand to know why without considering that maybe they expected too much of him.

Bee
I can see Ricciardo replacing one of the Toro Rosso lads at midpoint and then perform strong enough for Red Bull to take more and more notice.
In all seriousness?

I hope Ricciardo doesn't make it. That might sound like a horrible thing to say, but I'm honestly sick an tired of hearing about him - helped in no small part by those bloody idiots we know as the Channel Ten commentators - and he isn't even in the sport yet. Everybody talks about him like he's the golden child of the next generation, simply because he set a lap time good enough to qualify for third in the race that had just happened, ignoring the fact that the circuit had considerably more rubber laid down from testing and an entire Grand Prix meeting than it did when those qualifying times were set.
 
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The point he is making is that the scenery is the spectacle. It's not. If you built Yas Marina at the top of a mountain with stunning scenery, would it make it a better circuit? No.

Yes it would, especially if the run-off was severly limited like at Bathurst and you gained the elevation changes.
I don't see the point in transplanting Bathurst to "safer" land, by increasing the run off areas and going past scenery that isn't as dangerous, you are taking away some of what makes the track great. If not from a driver perspective, but from a spectator's perspective.
 
Sorry, but I don't think "dangerous scenery" is what makes the track so good. I ever said a replica would serve as a replacement for or an equal to the existing circuit, only that it was a way to get Formula 1 onto the circuit without modifying the existing roads to the point where the traits we hold dear are erased. It's the only thing I can think of that would deliver the best of both worlds.
 
Then stop thinking of it as a set of corners and straights and think about the environment and the experience of not just drivers, but also spectators. Monaco isn't really anything special layout wise if we just plonk it with loads of run-off - and its just the same for overtaking. Run off usually means pushing spectators further away from the action and it also reduces the challenge of running so close to the barriers and with little margin for error.
 
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