2011 Formula 1 British Grand Prix

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Anybody else watching F1 Forum? Murray Walker's there. :D
 
Moot
I don't think it had anything to do with Vettels points lead, just that they were worried Mark and Seb would just take each other off the track.
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Because of Vettel's lead in points would he not back off if Webber tried a move-so they told Webber not to make a move IMO :)
 
It was a good race. A very good race. Even though Vettel lost 1st in the pits, I think Alonso would have won it (and I dislike Alonso). He did very well for himself. Also, team orders should be BANNED.

I think 2011 is the best season ever, even if Vettel is walking away with the title. Great racing is better than a good championship fight
 
Anghammarad
There's almost always luck involved when a Red Bull does not win, and I am not being sarcastic here. You have to remember that Alonso has not been in a winner when it comes to cars since 07.

I find it interesting that Vettel seems to be quite poor at managing tyres when he is under any sort of pressure. Both times he lost to McLarens this year he shot his tyres and today only team orders saved second for him even though Webber was on older tyres
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Well no, Alonso came damn close last year and had a very good car at the end of the year.

Centura
Now you are just being silly.
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No, I'm not being silly. If a rookie came into F1 and was crash prone, he'd be branded dangerous. Hamilton's blatant disregard for his opponents is amateurish and is equally dangerous. If you can't see that, then you are being silly.
 
Hollidog
Anghammarad, you are still to reply to my comment about your method for rating drivers talent.
Vettel couldnt pass Hamilton, Alonso couldnt pass Petrov.
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And Webber couldn't pass some other slower car on the very same track. Abu Dhabi is notoriously difficult to pass on and the Renault was the quickest car when it came to straight line speed.

In all honestly you have to be very biased towards Vettel to not acknowledge the fact that Vettel has shown nothing when it comes to passing skills compared to Alonso, or Hamilton, or Webber, or Button. Every time he comes out behind, he stays behind
 
Anghammarad
There's almost always luck involved when a Red Bull does not win, and I am not being sarcastic here. You have to remember that Alonso has not been in a winner when it comes to cars since 07.

I find it interesting that Vettel seems to be quite poor at managing tyres when he is under any sort of pressure. Both times he lost to McLarens this year he shot his tyres and today only team orders saved second for him even though Webber was on older tyres
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I agree with your first statement, however, like you say, I think he lost both of those races fair and square to the McLarens. Hamilton drove a great race in China and Vettel made a mistake in Canada. However, like F1 Fan said, Alonso has only won two races through pure talent since 2008.


Anghammarad
And Webber couldn't pass some other slower car on the very same track. Abu Dhabi is notoriously difficult to pass on and the Renault was the quickest car when it came to straight line speed.

In all honestly you have to be very biased towards Vettel to not acknowledge the fact that Vettel has shown nothing when it comes to passing skills compared to Alonso, or Hamilton, or Webber, or Button.
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So what about the one dry line when Vettel was trying to pass Hamilton? Track conditions aside, facts are facts. Take out the variables, and you have a conclusive result. Also, it is widely known that the Renault engine actually has the least top speed of all the engines, save for the Cosworths.

I never said that he was great and the best ever etc etc. In fact I passed no judgement on Vettel other than providing facts.
 
F1 fan
Well no, Alonso came damn close last year and had a very good car at the end of the year.



No, I'm not being silly. If a rookie came into F1 and was crash prone, he'd be branded dangerous. Hamilton's blatant disregard for his opponents is amateurish and is equally dangerous. If you can't see that, then you are being silly.
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Your ridiculous dislike of Hamilton for being a racer is the only silly thing here.
 
Anghammarad
There's almost always luck involved when a Red Bull does not win, and I am not being sarcastic here. You have to remember that Alonso has not been in a winner when it comes to cars since 07.

I find it interesting that Vettel seems to be quite poor at managing tyres when he is under any sort of pressure. Both times he lost to McLarens this year he shot his tyres and today only team orders saved second for him even though Webber was on older tyres
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I see where your coming from, but luck is normally a set of events totally out of your own hands that you couldnt have forseen. Weather, unperfect pit stops, racing incidents, safety car are expected, but you cant plan on them etc..

Agreed that if none of these occur, red bull normally win, and most of the time red bull have won.I wish more cars could match red bull, in qualifying and race trim in 'perfect' conditions.
 
Hollidog
So what about the one dry line when Vettel was trying to pass Hamilton?
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Come now, that was later in the race on a dryer track than when Hamilton first passed Alonso who later repassed Hamilton again. If they could do it why couldn't Vettel?
 
That wheelnut rolling across the pitlane made me laugh, don't know why really.

Why did Mclaren give Hamilton only so much fuel? Did they think he wasn't going to get where he was, or was he just constantly heavy on the throttle?
 
A few thoughts.

- I can understand what Horner did and why he did it, but it makes him a massive hypocrite after his heavy criticism of Ferrari last year. Rule change or not, he was vehemently against team orders, and now he's fine with it.

- Horner also shows absolutely zero trust for his drivers, clearly. He's said several times today that if he'd let them race "they would have ended up in the barriers". Doesn't show a lot of trust. The McLarens have managed to pass each other cleanly several times this year (freak accident in heavy rain at Canada aside), clearly Horner thinks the Red Bull guys aren't capable of doing the same. Even Vettel himself has said he would have been happy racing to the finish.

- Hamilton defending his position was absolutely within the rules and within the spirit of the sport. It was Massa's prerogative to get past. If he does so into the outside of a corner, Hamilton is well within his rights to take the inside line and it's up to Massa to make provisions for the fact that the inside car might run wide. It's a racing incident and no more.

Good race though, and much as I'm not an Alonso fan, he had a great race.
 
poolhaas
That wheelnut rolling across the pitlane made me laugh, don't know why really.

Why did Mclaren give Hamilton only so much fuel? Did they think he wasn't going to get where he was, or was he just constantly heavy on the throttle?
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Probably the latter.

homeforsummer
A few thoughts.

- I can understand what Horner did and why he did it, but it makes him a massive hypocrite after his heavy criticism of Ferrari last year. Rule change or not, he was vehemently against team orders, and now he's fine with it.

- Horner also shows absolutely zero trust for his drivers, clearly. He's said several times today that if he'd let them race "they would have ended up in the barriers". Doesn't show a lot of trust. The McLarens have managed to pass each other cleanly several times this year (freak accident in heavy rain at Canada aside), clearly Horner thinks the Red Bull guys aren't capable of doing the same. Even Vettel himself has said he would have been happy racing to the finish.

- Hamilton defending his position was absolutely within the rules and within the spirit of the sport. It was Massa's prerogative to get past. If he does so into the outside of a corner, Hamilton is well within his rights to take the inside line and it's up to Massa to make provisions for the fact that the inside car might run wide. It's a racing incident and no more.

Good race though, and much as I'm not an Alonso fan, he had a great race.
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I would love to have known what would have happened if vettel was behind webber, would vettel been given permission to race, i think so. As vettel was in front, if they took each other off, im sure horner would have had his collar felt by the red bull higher powers, because vettel may lost out.
 
poolhaas
That wheelnut rolling across the pitlane made me laugh, don't know why really.

Why did Mclaren give Hamilton only so much fuel? Did they think he wasn't going to get where he was, or was he just constantly heavy on the throttle?
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That was great. :)

McLaren said they didn't do any heavy fuel running because of the weather on Friday.
 
Tired Tyres
Your ridiculous dislike of Hamilton for being a racer is the only silly thing here.
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No, I used to respect Hamilton as a racer, but he is getting clumsy and that is dangerous in this sport. I have said many times before that my hatred of Hamilton is purely down to his personality.
 
This track is hard to harvest enough energy for kers, let alone on a wet track, so nobody might have had full kers use. Which makes me think the red kers graphic of how much energy the batteries have full/half/empty etc. but merely a simple graphic to show how many seconds are remaining of kers use. More likely this is the case.
 
F1 fan
No, I used to respect Hamilton as a racer, but he is getting clumsy and that is dangerous in this sport. I have said many times before that my hatred of Hamilton is purely down to his personality.
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Hamilton has made a lot of stupid moves this year. The move with Massa today was not one of them. It was unequivocally a racing incident.
 
F1 fan
No, I used to respect Hamilton as a racer, but he is getting clumsy and that is dangerous in this sport. I have said many times before that my hatred of Hamilton is purely down to his personality.
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Ive noticed he isnt your favourite!:)
 
Anghammarad
Come now, that was later in the race on a dryer track than when Hamilton first passed Alonso who later repassed Hamilton again. If they could do it why couldn't Vettel?
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IIRC, it was only Hamilton who used the wet line against Alonso, and then Alonso went past Hamilton using DRS and on the dry side of the track. Hamilton went to cover him but Alonso stuck to the outside. Of the three, I would say that Hamilton is the best overtaker, but the best race winner, is Vettel.


Centura
Christian Horner said that Alonso would have won even if they didn't have that bad pitstop with Vettel.
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Of course he would say that, its not very smart of him to blame the outcome of the race on your employees. Thats just not good business. We can say whatever we want on the matter though.
 
SmittMan
What are you arguing about??
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We were debating about how Scuderia Ferrari were handed a significant influence with all things performance related when it comes to FIA rules in F1 after their threatened break away from the FIA Formula 1 Championship due to their history in the sport and the obvious commercial pull they have. It's a case of Ferrari say "jump" and the FIA says "how high" If you need any more evidence then look to this British G.P. I'm no Red Bull fan in any way, shape or form, in fact I love to see them getting beat because they've set the standard but Ferrari can't accept this, they use their influence in every way to tip the balance in their favour, in my opinion it's cheating
 
homeforsummer
Hamilton has made a lot of stupid moves this year. The move with Massa today was not one of them. It was unequivocally a racing incident.
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A lot of his crashes this year have been "racing incident's". It doesn't mean he is guilt free. He used Massa to slow his car down.

dhandes
Ive noticed he isnt your favourite!:)
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dhandes
I said that after the race, but the Red bull fan boys, wouldnt have it!👍
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So what are you? A Red Bull hater? Maybe the Red Bull fans wouldn't be arguing if you haters weren't constantly stirring the pot. You're getting very tiresome.
 
Hollidog
IIRC, it was only Hamilton who used the wet line against Alonso, and then Alonso went past Hamilton using DRS and on the dry side of the track. Hamilton went to cover him but Alonso stuck to the outside. Of the three, I would say that Hamilton is the best overtaker, but the best race winner, is Vettel.
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So who has the best car?
 

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