2011 Formula 1 British Grand Prix

[F1 fan]

That you're criticising people for supporting a driver who would be branded as dangerous in his rookie season while supporting a driver who was branded as dangerous in his rookie season.

Not sure why it needed explaining twice when it was readily apparent from the subtext.

Excuse me? You explained it once. Not twice. And as for Kamui, he was indeed labelled dangerous, incorrectly. He isn't dangerous, actually knows when to back off and isn't on an ego trip.

Who was joking?

I don't like Hamilton all that much (well, you know, I'm British, therefore I absolutely love him), but your constant anti-Hamilton rhetoric is getting quite old and making you look very one-dimensional. Every race we can expect Anghammarad to predict an Alonso win - except, ironically, this one - and you to go on the offensive aganist Hamilton. And then on the offensive against anyone who points it out, whether they're Hamilton fans or not.

Well maybe you weren't joking, but you have no real reason to claim Kobayashi is dangerous. Are you so blind that you never notice the constant barrage of Vettel bashing? I am a Vettel fan, so naturally the complete hatred people seem to have for him on the forums spurs me on. And the day Hamilton deflates his ego and realizes that this isn't "the Lewis Hamilton show" will be the day that I don't need to go on the offensive against Hamilton.

My question to you, is why is it supposedly ok for the constant Vettel hatred, but it's not ok for me to question Hamilton's method's?

 

[homeforsummer]

Was interesting to see how much quicker Webber was relative to Vettel with the ban in place - there'd been mutterings before the race that Vettel made much better use of the diffuser than Webber, so without it their performance difference looked much smaller. Perhaps Vettel gets more out of the diffuser than any other driver?

My question to you, is why is it supposedly ok for the constant Vettel hatred, but it's not ok for me to question Hamilton's method's?

Because today at least, you're wrong about Hamilton's driving being dangerous, yet you're still bringing it up.

 

[Hun200kmh]

@Famine: Anghammarad did not fail to predict Alonso's victory. In fact, Anghammarad, I salute your wisdom and I'm sure Airbus thanks you too

PS - 1st post from a phone, using the App

 

[F1 fan]

Because today at least, you're wrong about Hamilton's driving being dangerous, yet you're still bringing it up.

Right. I'm fed up with all of this, so I'm asking an open question to everyone who posts in the Formula One race threads.

Why is it that;
a) It is absolutely ok for people to flame Vettel
b) It is absolutely forbidden to respond to those comments with anything other than pure Vettel hatred.
C) It is absolutely forbidden to question anyone other than Vettel
D) Lewis Hamilton is perfect in every way.

If anyone can give me a proper answer to all of the above, then I will stay out of the race threads alltogether. If you can't, then I'm here, I will respond to the constant (mostly unjustified) Vettel criticism, and I will continue to question the on track and off track decisions of any of the drivers.

 

[Sohvakettu]

Its hard for me to figure out if this place has more trolls, troll baits or troll feeders and who is who (me included ).

 

[homeforsummer]

Right. I'm fed up with all of this, so I'm asking an open question to everyone who posts in the Formula One race threads.

Why is it that;
a) It is absolutely ok for people to flame Vettel
b) It is absolutely forbidden to respond to those comments with anything other than pure Vettel hatred.
C) It is absolutely forbidden to question anyone other than Vettel
D) Lewis Hamilton is perfect in every way.

Oh seriously.

Firstly, nothing I have said has been showering Hamilton with praise or flaming Vettel so you can stop that line of thought right away.

Secondly, why don't you answer for us why you feel your opinions are in any way less deserved of countering regardless of who you support? Perhaps the reason you seem to be on the end of this sort of comment is because you're going about your discourse in entirely the wrong way, rather than because everyone loves Hamilton and hates Vettel or some other rubbish?

So, here goes.

a) It isn't, but since nobody is flaming Vettel that's irrelevant.
b) It isn't, see point a).
c) It isn't, and that isn't happening, so see point a) again.
d) Nobody has said he is, and if you read my posts, Famine's posts, anyone else's posts, nobody is saying that. Indeed, at least on the last page or so, myself and Famine have even said that Hamilton isn't beyond making mistakes/we don't really like him, but that doesn't mean that if you're talking nonsense about him, he doesn't deserve defending.

Clear?

 

[ExigeEvan]

Right. I'm fed up with all of this, so I'm asking an open question to everyone who posts in the Formula One race threads.

Why is it that;
a) It is absolutely ok for people to flame Vettel
b) It is absolutely forbidden to respond to those comments with anything other than pure Vettel hatred.
C) It is absolutely forbidden to question anyone other than Vettel
D) Lewis Hamilton is perfect in every way.

If anyone can give me a proper answer to all of the above, then I will stay out of the race threads alltogether. If you can't, then I'm here, I will respond to the constant (mostly unjustified) Vettel criticism, and I will continue to question the on track and off track decisions of any of the drivers.

Step away from the keyboard.

Go outside.

Relax.

Then please stop being so melodramatic. I don't often post in these threads, but frequently browse. What you're seeing is Vettel being a big topic of discussion, and rightfully because he's dominating the championship. But to believe it's all being negative? Not a chance!

 

[F1 fan]

Step away from the keyboard.

Go outside.

Relax.

Then please stop being so melodramatic. I don't often post in these threads, but frequently browse. What you're seeing is Vettel being a big topic of discussion, and rightfully because he's dominating the championship. But to believe it's all being negative? Not a chance!

I'm not being melodramatic. I find it ridiculous that so much Vettel bashing goes unnoticed.

 

[homeforsummer]

I'm not being melodramatic. I find it ridiculous that so much Vettel bashing goes unnoticed.

What Vettel bashing?

 

[ExigeEvan]

I'm not being melodramatic. I find it ridiculous that so much Vettel bashing goes unnoticed.

It's not unnoticed, it's well balanced. I personally don't have any reason to bash him, but just because some choose to is fine, no one has to worship the ground he walks on.

All successful drivers have their critics, it's expected. But there's no overwhelming opinion in it, you're just too sensitive to any level of it because you are evidently a fanboy.

 

[Centura]

It's not unnoticed, it's well balanced. I personally don't have any reason to bash him, but just because some choose to is fine, no one has to worship the ground he walks on.

All successful drivers have their critics, it's expected. But there's no overwhelming opinion in it, you're just too sensitive to any level of it because you are evidently a fanboy.

Well said, sir.

 

[Terronium-12]

Maintain the gap? What kind of BS is that?

 

[Brend]

Maintain the gap? What kind of BS is that?

I am as confused as you Mr.Webber.

 

[homeforsummer]

Maintain the gap? What kind of BS is that?

Heh. I assumed it was like "Mind the gap" on the London Underground, but apparently I'm mistaken.

 

[F1 fan]

What Vettel bashing?

Look through every race thread and you'll see it. Some people clearly like to think his car is actually a shrunken version of this.

It's not unnoticed, it's well balanced. I personally don't have any reason to bash him, but just because some choose to is fine, no one has to worship the ground he walks on.

All successful drivers have their critics, it's expected. But there's no overwhelming opinion in it, you're just too sensitive to any level of it because you are evidently a fanboy.

No, I'm not a fanboy, I'm a fan. There is a difference. I don't expect everyone to worship the ground he walks on, but I do expect people to understand that I and his other fans have the right to respond to unjustified, negative comments about him. Either way, by the end of this season, he will be a two time champion, and it won't be his last. It may come to a surprise to some of you to know that at one point, I was a bit of a Hamilton fan. He wasn't my favourite, but there was a time that I liked him.

 

[Terronium-12]

I know they have to favor their "Golden Child" but, really, would third have hurt his points lead that much? I know Webber has to be thinking something along those lines too...

It's almost like Massa and Alonso all over again, and arguably it's probably just as worse. His efforts were stifled because he threatened to overtake him. If that tabloid story surrounding Hamilton has any truth to it whatsoever, I'd say this just escalated things. Horrible luck for Button and Hamilton. A whole lot of "WTF?" going on today.

 

[HKS racer]

If you consider Kobayashi "dangerous", Hamilton should be banned from F1









and so on...

 

[ExigeEvan]

No, I'm not a fanboy, I'm a fan. There is a difference. I don't expect everyone to worship the ground he walks on, but I do expect people to understand that I and his other fans have the right to respond to unjustified, negative comments about him. Either way, by the end of this season, he will be a two time champion, and it won't be his last. It may come to a surprise to some of you to know that at one point, I was a bit of a Hamilton fan. He wasn't my favourite, but there was a time that I liked him.

By not being able to accept any negative opinions of him, you are by my thoughts a fanboy.

And yes, you have the right to respond, but why bother? Be happy in the fact that he's storming the championship and out performing his team-mate. If you can't except any criticism of him when he's doing so well then I'd hate to see you when he's losing.

 

[YellowG1]

Maintain the gap? What kind of BS is that?

+1. 👎 Once again, Webber gets screwed at Silverstone, though I'm reading on Autosport he ignored the orders??

Really frustrating day for a McLaren fan (though Massa/Hamilton was an awesome finish!!) but I'm really glad anyone other than Vettel won. Great drive by Alonso.

 

[F1 fan]

By not being able to accept any negative opinions of him, you are by my thoughts a fanboy.

And yes, you have the right to respond, but why bother? Be happy in the fact that he's storming the championship and out performing his team-mate. If you can't except any criticism of him when he's doing so well then I'd hate to see you when he's losing.

It's not that I can't take negative opinions of him. It's more that I feel the need to respond as a lot of it is unfounded and I'm frankly surprised that some people react so strongly. If I'm a Vettel fanboy, then the people I respond to are surely Vettel haters? I'm sure if I putting Hamilton down, I'd be met with a lot of criticism.

The whole point of a forum is discussion. And look at the reaction people have when I respond to their one sided bashing.

 

[Terronium-12]

+1. 👎 Once again, Webber gets screwed at Silverstone, though I'm reading on Autosport he ignored the orders??

Really frustrating day for a McLaren fan (though Massa/Hamilton was an awesome finish!!) but I'm really glad anyone other than Vettel won. Great drive by Alonso.

Indeed it was a fantastic drive by Alonso. I missed the first hour of FOX's lame tape-delayed coverage so I'll be looking to watch the full race in a few minutes or so...but how did Alonso manage a 20+ second lead?

That's just amazing.

 

[Centura]

I know they have to favor their "Golden Child" but, really, would third have hurt his points lead that much? I know Webber has to be thinking something along those lines too...

They told Mark Webber to "maintain the gap," so they wouldn't risk having another incident like in Turkey, 2010. That's how I understood it, anyway.

It's not that I can't take negative opinions of him. It's more that I feel the need to respond as a lot of it is unfounded and I'm frankly surprised that some people react so strongly. If I'm a Vettel fanboy, then the people I respond to are surely Vettel haters? I'm sure if I putting Hamilton down, I'd be met with a lot of criticism.

The whole point of a forum is discussion. And look at the reaction people have when I respond to their one sided bashing.

It's a complete waste of time. Also, you have already been flaming Hamilton and he definitely deserved it in Monaco and Canada, but it's over now. He drove well in Valencia and Silverstone.

EDIT: If their bashing is one-sided, I doubt you will be able to have much of a discussion.

 

[Brend]

I find it astounding that the BBC ignored the fact Di Resta had an amazing opportunity of finishing in the top 6 had it not been from some awful incompetence in his team. Sure, they said a lil about it but come on! You look at the top 10 finishers and I could easily see him way up in 6th.

I love Hamilton to be honest. The sheer determination he shows is fantastic! Seeing him claw from 10th to 4th was an amzing piece of work. I love the haters, they make me notice what makes him special. His unique talent; Edge-of-seat racing.

For Vettel, I like him too. He's a different breed of racer with such a talent for taking pole and running naway with races. I don't think it's Vettel people have the problem with but more the way RBR treat him like some kind of demi-god and Webber like a piece of trash. Out. of. order. Webber deserves better than that. One of the talented veterans on the grid.

 

[Terronium-12]

They told Mark Webber to "maintain the gap," so they wouldn't risk having another incident like in Turkey, 2010. That's how I understood it, anyway.

You mean where Vettel would have been the cause, but everyone attempts to off the blame to Webber? Sorry, couldn't resist...but I really don't see that happening this year, not with the way Vettel has improved as tremendously as he has.

The way I heard/understood it was simply: "Do NOT pass Vettel, stay where you are."

Only difference being their's was a bit more polite in tone.

 

[Centura]

You mean where Vettel would have been the cause, but everyone attempts to off the blame to Webber? Sorry, couldn't resist...but I really don't see that happening this year, not with the way Vettel has improved as tremendously as he has.

The way I heard/understood it was simply: "Do NOT pass Vettel, stay where you are."

Only difference being their's was a bit more polite in tone.

It also shows how little confidence they have in their drivers... Seriously, let them race.

 

[Terronium-12]

It also shows how little confidence they have in their drivers... Seriously, let them race.

Exact same thing I said when the issue arose with Massa/Alonso. Except then I also said "If he's really faster then let him pass Massa by being, you know, faster."

 

[F1 fan]

It also shows how little confidence they have in their drivers... Seriously, let them race.

Mclaren and Ferrari have both proven guilty of the same dirty tricks. At least this was at the end of the race. Ferrari's strategy seems to be about making sure Massa is far enough behind Alonso to make sure he doesn't get in the way.

One interesting thought, I haven't really noticed anyone say anything about Ricciardo. I know it was his first Grand Prix, but on paper, he performed terribly today. Any news on why he was over a minute behind Liuzzi? I would like to see the reaction of those who talked up his chances before the race. For those watching on OneHd, what was their attitude towards his performance?

 

[YellowG1]

Indeed it was a fantastic drive by Alonso. I missed the first hour of FOX's lame tape-delayed coverage so I'll be looking to watch the full race in a few minutes or so...but how did Alonso manage a 20+ second lead?

That's just amazing.

I won't ruin it for you but Alonso just had a great drive.

I find it astounding that the BBC ignored the fact Di Resta had an amazing opportunity of finishing in the top 6 had it not been from some awful incompetence in his team. Sure, they said a lil about it but come on! You look at the top 10 finishers and I could easily see him way up in 6th.

I love Hamilton to be honest. The sheer determination he shows is fantastic! Seeing him claw from 10th to 4th was an amzing piece of work. I love the haters, they make me notice what makes him special. His unique talent; Edge-of-seat racing.

For Vettel, I like him too. He's a different breed of racer with such a talent for taking pole and running naway with races. I don't think it's Vettel people have the problem with but more the way RBR treat him like some kind of demi-god and Webber like a piece of trash. Out. of. order. Webber deserves better than that. One of the talented veterans on the grid.

Agreed. Di Resta would've had a very good finish but for some incompetence on his team's part. I hope he can keep up the pace!

I found it interesting that in the mid-point of the race, Vettel, though demonstrably quicker than Hamilton, couldn't find a way past even with DRS. I'm not sure if he just couldn't pass or was being a bit conservative considering he really doesn't need to win, given that humongous lead he has in the Driver's championship.

It also shows how little confidence they have in their drivers... Seriously, let them race.

Actually, it more shows what little confidence they have in Webber, and less so Vettel if they didn't trust Webber to execute a clean pass. I can understand wanting to preserve the constructor's title lead, which obviously wouldn't make a difference no matter which driver finished 2nd or 3rd, but telling Webber to stay behind Vettel is just a sop to Vettel's driver's title chances. Button and Hamilton came together, what, 3 weeks ago in Canada and McLaren trusts them enough to get it right without resorting to team orders.

 

[homeforsummer]

If I'm a Vettel fanboy, then the people I respond to are surely Vettel haters?

What a load of tosh. You don't have to hate something to criticise it.

I'm sure if I putting Hamilton down, I'd be met with a lot of criticism.

Again - when you're putting him down for the wrong reasons (such as today), then expect criticism.

The whole point of a forum is discussion. And look at the reaction people have when I respond to their one sided bashing.

It's only one sided because you're so wrapped up in your own opinions that you're not prepared to see when other people are actually correct about something.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

Quick takes:

1). Solid drive from Alonso. Nothing spectacular, just didn't put a foot wrong all weekend. He could very well have won without the help from the Red Bull pit.

2). Re the RB team orders, Webber was in position to challenge Vettel only because of the team's mistake in the pits. He didn't really have a good drive and, as per usual, badly muffed the start. Webber nonetheless would have gotten second via DRS but for Horner's intervention. The justice of that would have been questionable. That said, Horner should have kept his mouth shut for team morale purposes. It's not like Vettel needed the extra few points, and with a DRS pass the crash risk is minimal.

3). Webber's post-race comments about ignoring the order were out of line and if Horner had a pair, Webber would be out of a job prior to Germany. Quite sure any of the STR boys could fill in adequately, would be thrilled to step up and would have no trouble being Vettel's caddy. RB holds all the cards in this, and in Webber's contract talks. They have the best car on the grid, they know it, and they know any other driver on the grid save Alonso would gladly come over.

4). Hamilton might have great talent, but he's proving this year unable to work within the parameters the engineers give him re tires and now fuel. All the talk is about whether he wants to leave McLaren. The question in my mind is, by year's end, will McLaren want to keep him?