2011 Formula 1 Grand Prix of Europe

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I hope it's Webber who gets to the top of the podium this time 👍

Ooops! I hit edit but ended up double posting - apologies:dunce:
 
And Mark? What of him?

Mark himself has mentioned that he's wearing his tyres quicker than others and needs to sort this out. I just see this problem affecting him tomorrow, but lets see.

Fingers crossed for an exciting race. Practice and quali was boring. The track surroundings are pretty but that's it apart from the last section before the start/finish line.
 
Can't see any other winner really Seb will want to get Montreal out of the way fast.Aside from Mark and the double DRS zones can easily see a very Boring Red bull one two lead by Vettel.
 
From what I understand, the drivers have 3 different engine maps on the wheel that are changeable, but to do so it takes about 90 seconds which is mandated by the fia. The engines maps that are on the wheel have to be approved by the fia, and I think they have people, software people, monitoring that type of thing. So it would be stupid for one of the teams to risk dq.

I see a one two finish for Redbull, hopefully Force India has a good race.

*Edit found a q&a with Whiting. I will quote the relavent parts. http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2011/Pages/cw-qa.aspx

Simply put, what are teams now banned from doing under parc fermŽ conditions?

The teams are not allowed to make any changes with a computer that they plug in. The drivers are still allowed to change things from the steering wheel [however] the single ECU only supports fine adjustments from the steering wheel.

In very general terms, anything that can be done from the wheel is OK; anything they need to connect a computer for is not.

We are on the verge of issuing a note to the teams to give them a list of things that they can change when they connect their computers but that will be a very limited list.
 
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I don't see anything in the Charlie Whiting quote that prevents a change of the scope suggested by Famine.

'On the verge' of issuing new instructions is interesting; I can't imagine that will come before tomorrow's race though.

'Anything they can do through the wheel is okay'... sounds like a loophole to me :D
 
Ah, but the point being raised here is that there would be no risk of disqualification beceause parc ferme only lasts till the start of the race. After the race has started, the only requirement is that the car finishes with a minimum weight and meets all the post-race checks such as ride height, etc.

So as far as that rule goes, the teams could change engine maps during a pit stop - what I'm asking is, do we know if a steering wheel can contain engine maps?

This is all going to be irrelevant for Silverstone onwards as then the teams won't need radically different engine maps, or at least its slightly less important to have more aggressive engine maps for the blown diffusers.

I'm not sure whether Red Bull really felt they needed to use those engine maps for qualifying speed. After all, they are in a dominant position and qualifying really means little these days as long as you qualify near or at the front and keep out of trouble in the first few laps. Sure they will try to get every advantage possible, but this all seems a little extreme just for one race weekend...or rather one qualifying session.

Not to mention its all rumour and speculation about where Red Bull's qualifying speed comes from, it may be they don't run hugely different engine maps anyway. No one has ever confirmed that Red Bull gain those 3 or 4 tenths just from engine maps/blown diffuser combinations, just that thats where the other teams think they are.
 
And Mark? What of him?

Webber has really been such an unsung hero this season so far. People keep forgetting his good drives from far behind, the nice stack of podiums he's gotten this season so far, and he's the only person so far who has been able to steal pole from Vettel all season, albeit once. And I wouldn't be surprised to see him beat Vettel off the line tomorrow and maybe get his first win of 2011.

I really don't see Webber deserving much credit for this year. Decimated in qualifying by his team mate - to praise him for being the only person to outqualify Seb is generous given that he's also the only person to be in the same car - and his great drives have to be expected given that he is in the fastest car and his qualifying results haven't really reflected this, so he's likely to move forward in the race. China was the first race of this Pirelli era where we've seen someone in the fastest car, on the optimum strategy coming from that back to obliterate most of the field. He even said himself when an interviewer raved about his performance, that it wasn't as if he had magically found some more speed or determination - he admitted it was just a product of his fresh option tyres.

Webber looks like a beaten man to me, he's settled into the inevitability of getting beaten by Seb. I like Mark despite everything i've said. I really hoped coming into 2009 that he'd defeat Seb and prove how good I thought he was, but it wasn't to be - he's just not on the same level as him.
 
The key part of the quote in my mind is;
...the single ECU only supports fine adjustments from the steering wheel.
From this I don't think replacing steering wheels would do any good.
Also later in the q&a is this.
What is the goal of implementing this change?

A team can't have a base map in the ECU that is only good for a few laps. If you want to use it, you have to use it for the whole race.
(Whiting)
 
anyone excited about DRS in valancia as I am :-) Looking forward to it...

<a href="http://eu.playstation.com/psn/profile/EversmannGT/"><img src="http://mypsn.eu.playstation.com/psn/profile/EversmannGT.png" border="0" /></a>
 
I really don't see Webber deserving much credit for this year. Decimated in qualifying by his team mate - to praise him for being the only person to outqualify Seb is generous given that he's also the only person to be in the same car - and his great drives have to be expected given that he is in the fastest car and his qualifying results haven't really reflected this, so he's likely to move forward in the race. China was the first race of this Pirelli era where we've seen someone in the fastest car, on the optimum strategy coming from that back to obliterate most of the field. He even said himself when an interviewer raved about his performance, that it wasn't as if he had magically found some more speed or determination - he admitted it was just a product of his fresh option tyres.

Webber looks like a beaten man to me, he's settled into the inevitability of getting beaten by Seb. I like Mark despite everything i've said. I really hoped coming into 2009 that he'd defeat Seb and prove how good I thought he was, but it wasn't to be - he's just not on the same level as him.

Yeah, Mark has had a pretty bad year so far. Red Bull are surely looking elsewhere now for a more consistent number 2 driver (or even maybe to try and run equal drivers). Surely the obvious sign is the continued delay on signing a new contract with Webber.
I think Mark blew his chance last year and I fear he won't get another one. But he should always find a place in a midfield team.

Some are suggesting Ferrari are looking at Webber but is he really much better than Massa? Not really.

For those who wish to defend Mark, you only need to look at McLaren or even (ironically) Ferrari who have much more consistent and competitive driver line-ups. Massa and Button are consistently close to their teammates (though Massa less so than Button, but still much more than Webber) sometimes even beating them.
Red Bull really need a driver who can at the very least pick up the pieces when Vettel isn't winning and can help tail-gun him to the title. Its no use qualifying behind Ferrari and McLaren and having to fight back to the front.

Its good to see Mark back on the front row finally though. But its not over yet and I fear he has already lost his chance with Red Bull at least.

The key part of the quote in my mind is;
From this I don't think replacing steering wheels would do any good.
Also later in the q&a is this.
(Whiting)

As has been pointed out to you earlier though, the FIA can and have missed potential loopholes or "interpretations" in the past. I don't see how that rule you refer to stops the teams from replacing steering wheels which contain different engine maps, it merely says the steering wheels themselves can only make slight adjustments.
So you could make slight adjustments to the engine maps on the steering wheel..but that doesn't necessarily mean the engine maps on both steering wheels are the same. Just that you can only make slight adjustments when using the wheel.
What Charlie Whiting wants to see and what actually happens are not always the same thing..hence the change in rules half way through the season. ;)
 
As has been pointed out to you earlier though, the FIA can and have missed potential loopholes or "interpretations" in the past. I don't see how that rule you refer to stops the teams from replacing steering wheels which contain different engine maps, it merely says the steering wheels themselves can only make slight adjustments.
So you could make slight adjustments to the engine maps on the steering wheel..but that doesn't necessarily mean the engine maps on both steering wheels are the same. Just that you can only make slight adjustments when using the wheel.
What Charlie Whiting wants to see and what actually happens are not always the same thing..hence the change in rules half way through the season. ;)

It depends on where the data for the engine map is located. I don't know if it is located in the wheel or more likely it is not. If it is not in the wheel, where the actual engine mapping data is, then that engine map would have to be loaded before the start of qualifying with both the race settings and the qualifying settings. According to the rulebook,
8.1.4 All on-car software versions must be registered with the FIA before use.
Meaning if a team did decide to be sneaky, the fia would know about. Changing the engine map from qualifying to race during a pit stop, according to the quotes from Whiting, would be something they don't want to allow.
 
The day a change of steering wheel at a pitstop changes the mapping of an f1 engine will, be a sad day. These loopholes, that they try to get around, it frankly makes the mind boggle. Just race with what you have, dont try and be a smartass.
If your car, fundamently ( red bull or whoever) is better, then go for it, dont fleece the spectators, with the rule bending and arrogance.
 
It depends on where the data for the engine map is located. I don't know if it is located in the wheel or more likely it is not. If it is not in the wheel, where the actual engine mapping data is, then that engine map would have to be loaded before the start of qualifying with both the race settings and the qualifying settings. According to the rulebook, Meaning if a team did decide to be sneaky, the fia would know about. Changing the engine map from qualifying to race during a pit stop, according to the quotes from Whiting, would be something they don't want to allow.

No one is questioning whether the FIA would know if/when this happens, but we are pointing out that there is a possible loophole in the regulation that the FIA might have missed.
Yes, the FIA will notice the change in engine maps, but if the rulebook doesn't cover pit stops and the fact parc ferme ends at race start..then it doesn't matter what the hell Charlie Whiting thinks the rule should do.
The rule says:
-Engine maps cannot be changed between qualifying and the race.
Not:
-Engine maps must be the same in qualifying and race conditions.

As the race has started by the time of pit stops, the engine maps haven't been changed between qualifying and the race...so this rule hasn't been broken.

It does matter though if other teams think its worth protesting under "spirit of the rules" again though. But this is once again unlikely to lead to exclusions and as has been said, this will all become null and void at Silverstone.

The day a change of steering wheel at a pitstop changes the mapping of an f1 engine will, be a sad day. These loopholes, that they try to get around, it frankly makes the mind boggle. Just race with what you have, dont try and be a smartass.
If your car, fundamently ( red bull or whoever) is better, then go for it, dont fleece the spectators, with the rule bending and arrogance.

Where have you been? F1 has always been about loopholes and bending rules. The FIA ban things, the teams try to find ways around it or make new advantages and "hide" it from the other teams, the FIA and spectators.
Its called trying to win.

Funnily enough, I think its part of what makes F1 so fascinating to follow. But I can see how the discussions of such complex technical regulations can get confusing and pretty tiresome for some people.
 
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Where have you been? F1 has always been about loopholes and bending rules. The FIA ban things, the teams try to find ways around it or make new advantages and "hide" it from the other teams, the FIA and spectators.
Its called trying to win.

Funnily enough, I think its part of what makes F1 so fascinating to follow. But I can see how the discussions of such complex technical regulations can get confusing and pretty tiresome for some people.

Exactly this. It's also called "development". I'd like to see races where Red Bull dominance isn't quite so prevalent... but I'll say it again; you have to admire the clever thinking. That's what F1 is!
 
I hope the pit crew (I figure it's between Petrov and 2 other people though) have a good race strategy for Petrov, they seem to be getting better at it, poor decisions earlier in the season cost him points.
 
coverage in the States on Fox.

I has a sad.

I'm not that mad about this weekend, Valencia isn't worth getting up for anyways. Germany and Britain on the other hand....:grumpy:

At least there is live timing on F1.com.👍
 
I'm not that mad about this weekend, Valencia isn't worth getting up for anyways. Germany and Britain on the other hand....:grumpy:

At least there is live timing on F1.com.👍
Why all the hate for Valencia, I find the track quite fun to drive around.

It is quite featureless and there has been a lack of overtaking in the past there, but with the help of drs, I think it should be a good race. I mean the Spanish GP is usually a downer, but this year, I thought it was a good race to watch, hopefully the same can be said of Valencia.
 
I'm not that mad about this weekend, Valencia isn't worth getting up for anyways. Germany and Britain on the other hand....:grumpy:

At least there is live timing on F1.com.👍

It's at noon, so we don't have to wake up.
 
It's at noon, so we don't have to wake up.

And since we know chances are high Seb will just finger the competition, I can get household tasks like laundry done while watching it.

Are live streams any good to you?

If I knew I could see a good race where P1 was completely up in the air, I would get a live stream going. But Seb's likely dominance, put together with a gross 7am and an SD stream vs. HD broadcast puts the nail in the coffin for me. Don't know about DVNTST8 though.
 
We'll, my hope for this one is Webber 1st into turn 1 and then letting SV dog it out with LH and FA. Should hopefully get tasty with the DRS zones 👍
 
Pirelli boss irritated by some drivers choosing not to run in Q3 in order to save a set of tyres for the race (according to James Allen's Blog).

Paul Hembery
It is more for the fans because otherwise we will see people not bothering in qualifying and that is a waste of time

I&#8217;ve made a suggestion to put to the Sporting Working Group to say that actually in those circumstances, you should be made to use your Q2 tyres in that situation, so there is no advantage from not setting a time.
 
Maybe the Pirelli boss should 'cry moar' about 11th place and lower being able to choose their starting tyres too.
Fortunately his suggestion will be binned immediately.
 
He is only providing the kind of tires that the FIA wanted.

I dont hear "FIA choses option X and Y for race weekend", I hear "Pirelli choses option x and Y for race weekend".

Why should he care if Q3 has no runners, it should be the FIA making a noise.
 
Well Pirelli made tyres to behave how the FIA wanted. Now people aren't using the tyres because they don't last. It simply makes Pirelli look bad. I'm sure pirelli could develop tyres that would last and perform but you can't do much when the FIA doesn't want them.
 
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