2011 Formula One DHL Turkish Grand Prix

[Rossticles]

Amazingly, we have yet to have a safety car this season!

I thought the same at the end of the race today. There have been very few retirements altogether.

 

[F1 fan]

And anyway, Michael is still doing better this year than he did last, it was just an off race.

Last year, Michael scored more points in Bahrain than he has after 4 races this year. I don't think he is doing better...

That's Massa's fault, being that he was well over a half car length behind and didn't concede position immediately like he should have. Hamilton didn't break any rule that I'm aware of (as he didn't cross the white line).

Neither did Vettel or Hamilton last year, but both were warned. Today was an identical incident and no-one was even warned. I agree that massa should have backed of immediately, but given that Hamilton was involved in an identical incident and was warned for it, he should have known not to have squeezed Massa like that. Just like he should have known not to move around on the start/finish line again at Malaysia... He was penalized this year for doing something he had been warned about the year before.

I find it annoying that after moaning about Vettel last year in China, he'd do the same thing to someone else.

Just for those not fully in the know.

The incident between Vettel and Hamilton in the 2010 chinese gp



The incident between Massa and Hamilton today

Indeed, the fault is in Massa for not ceding position to Hamilton once in that situation and ultimately the guy who can over-ride the traffic light system, which has again failed for Ferrari, but of course, it doesn't matter.

I agree that Ferrari were to blame and Massa should have backed off and slotted in behind Hamilton sooner... I'm just querying why neither was reprimanded/penalized, when Vettel and Hamilton were reprimanded for an identical incident.

There was no need for Hamilton to squeeze Massa onto the apron like he did and he should have known better since China 2010.

I thought the same at the end of the race today. There have been very few retirements altogether.

It has been a strange (but great)season so far. Action packed, with few retirements and no safety cars... Normally, action means retirements and safety cars.

Edit: Figured out the youtube embed. Thank you Tired Tyres.

 

[lbsf1]

Was there even a yellow at all this race?

Hmmn, well, paul de resta pulled of the track onto the side so that might have caused a waved yellow just at that post while he got out the car.


However if that didn't cause a yellow then, yes sir you are right.

 

[F1 fan]

Hmmn, well, paul de resta pulled of the track onto the side so that might have caused a waved yellow just at that post while he got out the car.

Yes, it caused a waved yellow. There might have been more. I've read that Liuzzi caused one and Massa may have caused one by going off at turn 8.

 

[lbsf1]

I think the main difference between the china's and todays pitlane issue is that hamilton never backed off, however massa eventually backed off before the pit lane exit.

Hamilton didn't squeeeze massa in this circumstance and hamilton was allready out quite comfortably before massa came out, compared with last year where vettel nearly lost the back of his car trying to get out.

I did think that its abit dangerous however not enough to be penalized. However that brings the problem of it then seeming ok.

 

[sems4arsenal]

One thing That Pleases me is How reliable the cars have become ,we rarely see more than two retired Drivers .

 

[F1 fan]

I think the main difference between the china's and todays pitlane issue is that hamilton never backed off, however massa eventually backed off before the pit lane exit.

Hamilton didn't squeeeze massa in this circumstance and hamilton was allready out quite comfortably before massa came out, compared with last year where vettel nearly lost the back of his car trying to get out.

I did think that its abit dangerous however not enough to be penalized. However that brings the problem of it then seeming ok.

Hamilton did squeeze Massa. Watch the video, it's all there. Hamilton was a good distance away from the line, then he moved until he was right next to the line. Massa backing off makes no difference. Hamilton squeezed him out. Massa's eventual lift off shouldn't disguise the fact that Hamilton squeezed him. And Lewis couldn't possibly have known that Massa would back off. The two events were Identical apart from Massa's eventual lift off. Hamilton basically did the same thing that Vettel did to him (and was warned for) in China 2010. Hamilton should have known it was wrong.

I agree with your point of not wanting things to seem acceptable. It sets a dangerous precedent.

One thing That Pleases me is How reliable the cars have become ,we rarely see more than two retired Drivers .

It's a double edged sword. Poor reliability makes things more exciting. Last year, I was a bag of nerves during the Abu Dhabi GP. After Vettel's poor luck, I was staring at the screen dreading any smoke or "sick" engine noises.

 

[Ardius]

Schuey had a poor race, but I disagree with the bit in bold.

That was as much Petrov's fault as it was Schumacher's. Petrov went into the corner too deep and took Schuey by surprise. If you look at the footage, you'll note that Petrov didn't even attempt to steer into the corner even once he'd passed the turning point. So yes, Schuey squeezed him a little too much, but had Petrov been watching what he was doing then Michael wouldn't have knocked him as he turned in.

And anyway, Michael is still doing better this year than he did last, it was just an off race.

Michael should have seen him alongside at that point and should have known Petrov was going to go wide. He totally screwed up not seeing Petrov and then turning into him when he didn't need to.
While Petrov made a silly mistake missing his braking point, Michael really didn't need to do anything except avoid him. It just looked like Schumacher really wasn't paying attention to his surroundings....again.

Supposed mechanical failures haven't really let Michael do "better this year", his season so far has been pretty average/rubbish.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Hamilton did squeeze Massa. Watch the video, it's all there. Hamilton was a good distance away from the line, then he moved until he was right next to the line. Massa backing off makes no difference. Hamilton squeezed him out. Massa's eventual lift off shouldn't disguise the fact that Hamilton squeezed him. And Lewis couldn't possibly have known that Massa would back off. The two events were Identical apart from Massa's eventual lift off. Hamilton basically did the same thing that Vettel did to him (and was warned for) in China 2010. Hamilton should have known it was wrong.

I agree with your point of not wanting things to seem acceptable. It sets a dangerous precedent.

It's a double edged sword. Poor reliability makes things more exciting. Last year, I was a bag of nerves during the Abu Dhabi GP. After Vettel's poor luck, I was staring at the screen dreading any smoke or "sick" engine noises.

Yep for someone like Seb Reliability Will do wonders for him I hated that every time a Driver is heading for a deserved victory a Mechanical Failure Spoils it

 

[fissionproject]

One thing That Pleases me is How reliable the cars have become ,we rarely see more than two retired Drivers .

i've noticed that as well - definitely a strong improvement from Melbourne

great race overall, vettel's pace is outstanding to be honest

loved all the small overtaking fights throughout the GP though, great job to Kobash and Schumi for standing ground :]

 

[F1 fan]

Yep for someone like Seb Reliability Will do wonders for him I hated that every time a Driver is heading for a deserved victory a Mechanical Failure Spoils it

Remember how Mika Hakkinen was cruelly robbed in Spain 01. Or what about massa in Hungary back in 08? It's cruel, but unreliability increases the drama and keeps people on the edge of their seats. I think the teams have been lucky so far this season. But I don't expect this level of reliability to last. At least it gave Karthikeyan the chance to pick up some kind of record. In the Chinese Grand Prix, he was the first person to finish a Grand Prix in 23rd place in the history of the sport.

 

[sems4arsenal]

He'll take it

 

[F1 fan]

He'll take it

His name could stand in the "obscure f1 records" book for some time.

 

[Ardius]

Until we get 24 finishers and Hispania out-race Virgin. Or we finally get the 13th team.

 

[SaberFire]

Until we get 24 finishers and Hispania out-race Virgin. Or we finally get the 13th team.

Hispania out-racing Virgin? More likely than you think .

 

[PeterJB]

They have already outqualified them after all...

 

[SonicWagon]

I heard Nick Worth is looking for a wind tunnel to borrow. Watch out Lotus Branson has much more money than Fernandez.

 

[Akmuq]

Neither did Vettel or Hamilton last year, but both were warned. Today was an identical incident and no-one was even warned. I agree that massa should have backed of immediately, but given that Hamilton was involved in an identical incident and was warned for it, he should have known not to have squeezed Massa like that. Just like he should have known not to move around on the start/finish line again at Malaysia... He was penalized this year for doing something he had been warned about the year before.

I find it annoying that after moaning about Vettel last year in China, he'd do the same thing to someone else.

Just for those not fully in the know.

The incident between Vettel and Hamilton in the 2010 chinese gp



The incident between Massa and Hamilton today





I agree that Ferrari were to blame and Massa should have backed off and slotted in behind Hamilton sooner... I'm just querying why neither was reprimanded/penalized, when Vettel and Hamilton were reprimanded for an identical incident.

There was no need for Hamilton to squeeze Massa onto the apron like he did and he should have known better since China 2010.

Well Hamilton clearly stayed inside the white pit lane line all the way through without any sudden moves to squeeze Massa. Besides there wasn't room so even if Hamilton tried squeezing him it would be pointless.

While in China, Vettel also stays inside the white pit lane line (just mind you), but makes a violent swing and Hamilton could have crashed. However Hamilton should have gone in behind him in the first place.

The Hamilton-Massa stuff today was more like this .(except they were able to stay two wide out of the pits)

Sorry but I can't embed the video on an iPod.

 

[Ardius]

Hispania out-racing Virgin? More likely than you think .

I know, so its not likely Kathikeyan will hold his "record" for very long.

I heard Nick Worth is looking for a wind tunnel to borrow. Watch out Lotus Branson has much more money than Fernandez.

Its Nick Wirth.
And Branson isn't willing to spend much on the team, otherwise why doesn't he out-spend Fernandes now? Why sell part of the team to Marussia? Branson is here only to get the most exposure for the smallest cost.
I don't think Virgin need to necessarily spend on a wind-tunnel but they need to upgrade their car much more aggressively. Both the VR-01 and MVR-02 look very basic aerodynamically, and while this provides a solid base its really not giving them any speed at all. They also don't seem capable of finding the best out of the car for some reason - look at how much speed Hispania found from their car last year with no updates to it!

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Congratulations to Vettel for winning the 2011 F1 Championship!

 

[YellowG1]

DRS is working well, but I think we need a VRS (Vettel Recovery System) the way he has been going.

 

[DwightSchrute12]

DRS is working well, but I think we need a VRS (Vettel Recovery System) the way he has been going.

Almost too well. I thought the initial goal of DRS was to put the driver in position to make a pass, not do it for him? Several of those overtakes in the DRS zone were ridiculously easy, no skill at all. Even Maldonado could get in a Ferrari behind Rosberg with DRS and pass.

I've been pro-DRS, but I wasn't a fan today. Majority of the time, the DRS was just an "overtake button" (or magic paddle?) It wasn't a driver aid, it was a substitute. They don't even need to pass them in the zone either, because if they're close enough, that set of three turns is a good place to finish the move. But most of the time the overtake was done before they hit T12.

But I know they're learning from the whole deal and where the zone is, so maybe we'll see better use of it later in the season.

 

[TheBook]

But I know they're learning from the whole deal and where the zone is, so maybe we'll see better use of it later in the season.

Personally, I think this is the first time this season where the FIA dropped the ball on DRS placement. All the other races this season (Malaysia in particular, IMO) have been done reasonably well.

 

[Ardius]

China was too much, Melbourne was too little. Malaysia was about right.

There are a lot of factors to consider as it depends on the corner previous to DRS, the length of activation and the corner following DRS. It seems to be best placed after a slow corner onto a long straight like Malaysia. Deploying it at high speed like China and Turkey gives far too much of an advantage in speed. They have to be careful though because obviously there not much point placing it on a section of track which doesn't allow much overtaking (like after Turn 8 into 9 or something).
The FIA didn't really "drop the ball", they have publicly acknowledged that they are still testing what works best, the fact they did it too much this time is good because hopefully they learn from that and adjust it. This is why they started with a very limited zone in Melbourne - so that people didn't panic and claim its a farse from the first race.

I think I would have either shortened the DRS for Turkey to after turn 11 or put it on the start/finish straight.

 

[snowdog58]

i'm a big schumacher fan but he now looks like he's past his prime. time to quit?.

 

[niky]

Congratulations to Vettel for winning the 2011 F1 Championship!

Don't write the book on it yet. Remember Hamilton's historic championship in his rookie season? Nope. Neither do I. And yet the book was written, printed and published long before the end...

-

While Hamilton could have backed off in the pits, he was never obliged to. On first viewing, I thought he was being too aggressive, but on second viewing, Ferrari's pit man really dropped the ball and let out Massa at a very uncomfortable time. The driver already in the lane doesn't have to pull over. The driver coming out of his box has to outdrag him first before merging.

Was there even a yellow at all this race?

Funny thing. I was thinking: Oh how different this race might have been if there had been a yellow right before Vettel's last stop...

This race has been wonderful for reliability. And the many on-track incidents didn't lead to people pulling off the road and retiring. I think this is the way every race should be.

 

[fissionproject]

i'm a big schumacher fan but he now looks like he's past his prime. time to quit?.

he's definitely run his prime stint, but he's still got some juice left in there somewhere

 

[IceMan PJN]

Don't write the book on it yet. Remember Hamilton's historic championship in his rookie season? Nope. Neither do I. And yet the book was written, printed and published long before the end...

Sure, anything is technically possible. Vettel could be crippled in an accident three days from now and have to sit out the remainder of the season. The Red Bull engineers could be drinking at a bar together and the bar is blown up by Al Qaeda in retaliation for Bin Laden. Adrian Newey might start secret behind-the-scenes work for McLaren that helps them to suddenly have an unrivaled car for the remainder of the season. A meteorite might land on Vettel half-way during the Spanish GP.

Vettel's 2011 championship win seems to be a pretty safe bet, however. If I was to put money on one of the drivers, I wouldn't feel comfortable risking real money on anyone else. I want it to be someone else (Hamilton), but I'm just accepting what is most likely.

 

[happycorey]

As much as I would love to see a Dominating era of Vettel just like Schumi did, I want to watch good racing. Or at least until 2013 when I probably just stop watching -_______-

 

[Hollidog]

China was too much, Melbourne was too little. Malaysia was about right.

There are a lot of factors to consider as it depends on the corner previous to DRS, the length of activation and the corner following DRS. It seems to be best placed after a slow corner onto a long straight like Malaysia. Deploying it at high speed like China and Turkey gives far too much of an advantage in speed. They have to be careful though because obviously there not much point placing it on a section of track which doesn't allow much overtaking (like after Turn 8 into 9 or something).
The FIA didn't really "drop the ball", they have publicly acknowledged that they are still testing what works best, the fact they did it too much this time is good because hopefully they learn from that and adjust it. This is why they started with a very limited zone in Melbourne - so that people didn't panic and claim its a farse from the first race.

I think I would have either shortened the DRS for Turkey to after turn 11 or put it on the start/finish straight.

I think part of the problem in Turkey was the fact that there was quite a strong headwind in the DRS zone. This meant that the car in front had an unusual amount of drag, and the rear car, as well as having the bigger advantage from slipstreaming and avoiding the tailwind, had DRS and KERS to boot.

Melbourne the DRS area was too short and it didnt really do much, but in my opinion it was the best of the lot, remember the great battle between Button and Massa? Although, that might just be down to Button becoming much more fighty, see him go around the outside of Rosberg(?) at turn 13?

On Schumacher, I had to laugh at the BBC commentary, DC says, "Michael just doesnt know when to give up" and Brundle replies "On his career or when he is being overtaken?"
I did like him going around the outside of someone around turn seven, though I cant remember who it was.