2012 Australian Grand Prix

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I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that I think it was more Grosjeans fault. Maldonaldo was in a much better position on the exit of the corner and I feel that grosjean should have given in and tucked in behind. I'm not saying that Maldonaldo should have closed the door on him as he did, however I would say that the pass was made by the exit of the corner and Grosjean should have given in instead of trying to stick it round the outside in a space that never was going to stay open. Also considering the next corner was also right handed Grosjean would have also had to stick it round the outside of that to keep the position.
 
Heikki got a penalty for passing Button before the first safety car line when lapped traffic was allowed through. 5 place grid drop at Sepang. Very unfair if you ask me because it was a case of being out by about 2 or 3 metres.
 
I'm 5 minutes into watching the qualifier(watched a few minutes of the race as well) on SKY and I'm already wishing it was tomorrow so I could drive over to comcast and plop down $9/mo to get the sports pack and SPEED TV.
Truth is, I appreciate ex PROs doing coverage and things like that and I find it much more interesting, but the rest of the SKY team and the presentation are just poor.
 
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GT5_X2010
Heikki got a penalty for passing Button before the first safety car line when lapped traffic was allowed through. 5 place grid drop at Sepang. Very unfair if you ask me because it was a case of being out by about 2 or 3 metres.
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Although I agree with you that it was a little harsh maybe, as he clearly didn't really gain a real advantage.. I also agree with the FIA, rules are rules, and they need to be enforced, otherwise what's the point in having them. And in F1 the smallest margin can make a difference, so I guess he had to get the penalty.
 
lbsf1
I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that I think it was more Grosjeans fault. Maldonaldo was in a much better position on the exit of the corner and I feel that grosjean should have given in and tucked in behind. I'm not saying that Maldonaldo should have closed the door on him as he did, however I would say that the pass was made by the exit of the corner and Grosjean should have given in instead of trying to stick it round the outside in a space that never was going to stay open. Also considering the next corner was also right handed Grosjean would have also had to stick it round the outside of that to keep the position.
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I'm not sure how exactly the rules go in f1 but I can't see how it can be the fault of the person on the outside. If you dive inside for a braking battle it's always your responsibility to brake early enough not to clobber the guy you're trying to get past. You make a good point when you say the next corner was also a right hander but if you want to defend a position there's nothing else you can do but to try to brave it out on the outside, and besides Grosjean being on the outside would've affected Maldonado's entry line which might've made a difference in the situation.

In the videos posted you can clearly see Maldonado moving to the left at the moment of impact. Grosjean had left him plenty of room he was all the way on the curb. I can't see how it should ever be the responsibility of the defending racer to give a place even after the cars have made around the corner side by side. Definitely should be the responsibility of the overtaking driver to make sure there's no contact.
 
A close battle between Red Bull and McLaren-Mercedes. Then there was Alonso far behind at 4th position who said "It is a difficult time for everybody at Ferrari".
 
Great race from Button, kinda sad for Hamilton that Mclaren stopped him when they did, he came back on traffic and lost all the time he painfully gain on Vettel. Maybe it was a tyre issue but still it was a pretty bad time to pit stop. Alonso finished fifth I think AlexGTV. 4th was Webber or I missed something ?

Mercedes pace on the race was far worst than I expected, kinda weird, since I thought they had fixed there tyre problem.

And yeah what a race from Vettel, even if the Red Bull car seems to work far better today than yesterday.

As for Grosjean vs Maldonado case, I think it was a race incident. No one to blame, stuff happen when you're racing, I dont see why you always have to blame someone in modern racing (for once I quite agree with Hammond and Clarkson on this subject). If you multiply overtaking by 10, you'll have to multiply the incident by 10 also. It's a simple rule. And seeing how WTCC race are, I think that F1 drivers are much more cautious than on other motorsport race, if you ever watch a MotoGP race you'll know what I mean.
 
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Superb race, only really those last couple of laps when the top 4 seem to be settled. Tough day for Lewis, mistake at the start and he loses the lead and then the sheer misfortune of the timing of the pitstop which allowed Vettel to grab a lucky second.

Interesting day for the Red Bull's, they didn't seem to be that half a second slower as they were in qualifying. Very disappointed for Maldonado, he's had his critics, but he is driving the nuts off that Williams and deserved some high points.
 
On the Grosjean incident - Grosjean left the door open and half-heartedly tried to stick around the outside in a section of track which narrows.
Maldonaldo's line and speed was always going to carry him to the outside of the track and its a natural line to take when overtaking (overtake on the inside then carry as much momentum as possible by curving to the outside as long as the other driver yields).

Grosjean yielding gave Maldonaldo the all clear to run wide and take the best possible line from his overtaking position. So to me its Grosjean's own fault for opening the door and then trying to keep running alongside when giving away such an easy overtake. People trying to blame Maldonaldo are either biased till they're blind or seem to think racing is about moving totally out of the way for their favoured driver.

Why on earth does Maldonaldo have to give Grosjean room after the overtake has finished? Why heavily compromise his exit just to give him room? If every overtake was followed by the attacking driver giving plenty of room to the defending driver, no one would ever pull off an overtake because they would never take the full advantage of "claiming the corner". Overtaking is all about placing your car in the position to dictate the line. As Maldonaldo had won the corner almost entirely due to Grosjean leaving the door wide open, he had every right to then take the optimum line and run wide - he had no reason to take a compromised line just to give Grosjean room.

I'm sure Grosjean will learn from it, but its hardly a case of Maldonaldo's so called aggressive behaviour - its a legitimate overtaking line that any driver would take, even "clean as clean" Button.

Shame people can't look past one small incident at the start of the race as this was a great race. Grosjean's season is hardly over just because of this one incident and Maldonaldo got some kind of karma from crashing himself. So lets just move on and appreciate what went great in this race such as the great battles between Raikkonen/Kobayashi, Button/Hamilton/Vettel, Vergne/Ricciardo, Perez/Rosberg, etc.
 
OK8
I'm not sure how exactly the rules go in f1 but I can't see how it can be the fault of the person on the outside. If you dive inside for a braking battle it's always your responsibility to brake early enough not to clobber the guy you're trying to get past. You make a good point when you say the next corner was also a right hander but if you want to defend a position there's nothing else you can do but to try to brave it out on the outside, and besides Grosjean being on the outside would've affected Maldonado's entry line which might've made a difference in the situation.

In the videos posted you can clearly see Maldonado moving to the left at the moment of impact. Grosjean had left him plenty of room he was all the way on the curb. I can't see how it should ever be the responsibility of the defending racer to give a place even after the cars have made around the corner side by side. Definitely should be the responsibility of the overtaking driver to make sure there's no contact.
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The only thing he could do to try to defend is brave it out on the outside, however as a driver you need to know when a position is lost, and for Grosjean that was just after the apex, at that point he should have backed off and given the place. I do agree that Maldonaldo moved over on him, however Grosjean had already lost the place at that point so would have been expected to move over, Maldonaldo couldn't see him at that point so I'm guessing assumed to move over to cover the place not knowing that Grosjean was still trying to hang on round the outside.
 
F1 fan
So you purposely crash, cause an avoidable accident and earn the reputation of being a reckless crasher? Remind me to never race against you online. I've had my fill of reckless crasher's online.
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F1 fan
Really? Offence taken for that? So you think it's a good idea to have an avoidable crash to avoid being labelled a pushover? Personally, I'd rather finish the race.

And I didn't call you a reckless crasher, but I have to question it when someone thinks it's a better idea to crash than it is to lose a position.
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Really? That reads like you calling me sir. :)

As for crashing rather than losing positions, how long have you been watching F1? It's default behaviour for Formula drivers. Especially new drivers. Giving up a position doesn't look good to the team boss.

If you want to see drivers who behave themselves I'd suggest you watch endurance racing. They, mostly, drive properly. There are some bad apple of course, but in the main they look to finish the race.
 
Ardius
On the Grosjean incident - Grosjean left the door open and half-heartedly tried to stick around the outside in a section of track which narrows.
Maldonaldo's line and speed was always going to carry him to the outside of the track and its a natural line to take when overtaking (overtake on the inside then carry as much momentum as possible by curving to the outside as long as the other driver yields).

Grosjean yielding gave Maldonaldo the all clear to run wide and take the best possible line from his overtaking position. So to me its Grosjean's own fault for opening the door and then trying to keep running alongside when giving away such an easy overtake. People trying to blame Maldonaldo are either biased till they're blind or seem to think racing is about moving totally out of the way for their favoured driver.

Why on earth does Maldonaldo have to give Grosjean room after the overtake has finished? Why heavily compromise his exit just to give him room? If every overtake was followed by the attacking driver giving plenty of room to the defending driver, no one would ever pull off an overtake because they would never take the full advantage of "claiming the corner". Overtaking is all about placing your car in the position to dictate the line. As Maldonaldo had won the corner almost entirely due to Grosjean leaving the door wide open, he had every right to then take the optimum line and run wide - he had no reason to take a compromised line just to give Grosjean room.

I'm sure Grosjean will learn from it, but its hardly a case of Maldonaldo's so called aggressive behaviour - its a legitimate overtaking line that any driver would take, even "clean as clean" Button.

Shame people can't look past one small incident at the start of the race as this was a great race. Grosjean's season is hardly over just because of this one incident and Maldonaldo got some kind of karma from crashing himself. So lets just move on and appreciate what went great in this race such as the great battles between Raikkonen/Kobayashi, Button/Hamilton/Vettel, Vergne/Ricciardo, Perez/Rosberg, etc.
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You missed the point where he quickly turned left before continuing on his normal line then.
 
What a race! :D

Proud of the Point Di Resta. 👍 Unlucky Nico 👎
 
haitch40
You missed the point where he quickly turned left before continuing on his normal line then.
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Yes I miss this, I only see him running wide trying to carry momentum and claim the corner. I don't see any visible change of direction, but a constant line through the corner - yes he ran wide but this happens quite a lot when trying to outbrake another driver and take a compromised line around a tight and narrowing corner like this one.

If we have an onboard of Maldonaldo looking at Grosjean and then turning into him without any visible need for correction for oversteer - then fine. But judging by the Grosjean onboard and the outside shots, it seems like a consistent line Maldonaldo takes.
 
This was just a fluke for Button. He won't be this lucky from now on, Vettel will conquer all again. I do, however, have to say I underestimated Perez.
 
:lol: :lol: I used to like Vettel but his fans. His freakin' fans man.
 
otakukid96
This was just a fluke for Button. He won't be this lucky from now on, Vettel will conquer all again. I do, however, have to say I underestimated Perez.
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Interesting, fluke? Maybe thats true 2 years ago but now?
 
Every lap of his was a fluke.

Especially the bit where he pulled a 10 second gap out on his faster teammate and held him there.

Fluke. :rolleyes:
 
Button was lucky again after the safety car restart. His car seemed to just pull away. JB couldn't fathom it either.
 
Come on lads lets be serious, we all know the season is made for HRT to take the championship by storm.
 
Ardius
On the Grosjean incident - Grosjean left the door open and half-heartedly tried to stick around the outside in a section of track which narrows.
Maldonaldo's line and speed was always going to carry him to the outside of the track and its a natural line to take when overtaking (overtake on the inside then carry as much momentum as possible by curving to the outside as long as the other driver yields).

Grosjean yielding gave Maldonaldo the all clear to run wide and take the best possible line from his overtaking position. So to me its Grosjean's own fault for opening the door and then trying to keep running alongside when giving away such an easy overtake. People trying to blame Maldonaldo are either biased till they're blind or seem to think racing is about moving totally out of the way for their favoured driver.

Why on earth does Maldonaldo have to give Grosjean room after the overtake has finished? Why heavily compromise his exit just to give him room? If every overtake was followed by the attacking driver giving plenty of room to the defending driver, no one would ever pull off an overtake because they would never take the full advantage of "claiming the corner". Overtaking is all about placing your car in the position to dictate the line. As Maldonaldo had won the corner almost entirely due to Grosjean leaving the door wide open, he had every right to then take the optimum line and run wide - he had no reason to take a compromised line just to give Grosjean room.

I'm sure Grosjean will learn from it, but its hardly a case of Maldonaldo's so called aggressive behaviour - its a legitimate overtaking line that any driver would take, even "clean as clean" Button.

Shame people can't look past one small incident at the start of the race as this was a great race. Grosjean's season is hardly over just because of this one incident and Maldonaldo got some kind of karma from crashing himself. So lets just move on and appreciate what went great in this race such as the great battles between Raikkonen/Kobayashi, Button/Hamilton/Vettel, Vergne/Ricciardo, Perez/Rosberg, etc.
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It might be a legal pass but it was everything but clean as you can clearly see Maldonado correcting his trajectory to close the door on Grosjean and probably due to a miss calculation crashing into the front tyre of the Lotus and breaking its suspension... quoting Brundle (for the 3rd time) «very rude of Maldonado»

Am I the only one to see him change his trajectory and go with all four wheel off the tarmac (0.17s on the video) just to close the door or maybe even ram the lotus?


Further more in the beggining of the video you can clearly see Grosjean right on the back of Rosberg and he backed off because of the yellow flag, something the Maldonado didnt do and took advantage of.

But God is great (for those that believe in him) and karma is a b%$#... he got what he deserved in the end.
 
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