2012 Canadian Grand Prix

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Ross, Jun 5, 2012.

  1. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

    Messages:
    10,348
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I don't think anything would have changed. Neither Ferrari or Red Bull had the ultimate pace of the McLaren in Canada.
     
  2. tribolik

    tribolik

    Messages:
    3,195
    Neither Ferrari or Red Bull have the pace of the McLaren period (at least this year) and if it hasnt been for the pit stop problems and hamiltons penalties McLaren would be ahead in the championship...

    Button really needs to sort himself out and find out why he cant switch the tyres on.
     
  3. Ardius

    Ardius

    Messages:
    10,373
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Well we will find out when we get to Monza (for low downforce) and Silverstone (for the return to the harder compound tyres) but I don't consider the Williams drivers so bad that they fail to show any pace over an entire weekend.
    Having said that (on the topic of downforce), now we have DRS, most teams don't really make the huge changes in downforce setup that they used to. For this race, HRT seemed to have the skinniest wing! Normally its the cars with the best aero balance that can afford to run the lowest downforce.
    The difference in layout though still makes a difference as the reliance is more on the mechanical side.

    Both Pastor and Bruno have at least shown some speed at most weekends so far - so it seems a bit odd for them to be dramatically off the pace. I'm sure if Alonso was in the car, yes they probably would be a bit closer to top 10 but I still think a lot of that pace difference was also to do with the difference in track layout not suiting the car and the different compound tyres.
     
  4. hornet_burnout

    hornet_burnout

    Messages:
    2,740
    Location:
    Portugal
    I never said Pastor was not fast. If anything can't be said about him, is that he's not always as fast as mechanically or humanly possible. Many times he tries too hard.

    Senna, I don't know... I think he's missing something. Maybe he doesn't believe enough or something is not to his liking enough for him to be 100% as fast as he and the car can be.

    I think we now have the biggest pack of incredibly talented and fast drivers in F1 in a long time, if not ever.
     
  5. Ardius

    Ardius

    Messages:
    10,373
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I think Senna looks too conservative this year. It seems he's gone back and thought about last season and decided to take things as carefully as possible - presumably hoping that by completing races and getting the mileage he can gain the experience he desperately needs.
    The problem is he needs to push far harder than this to even have a hope of staying in the sport. He doesn't have the luxury of sitting back every weekend to let the results come to him.

    I wonder really if he thinks too much and he's holding himself back for fear of screwing up - further compounded when he does inevitably screw up. Its weird that his pace advantage over Petrov from last year appears to have gone but his consistencey has improved. Either that means Petrov is really, really slow or Senna is driving conservatively.

    Senna really needs to be beating Maldonaldo on pace on a regular basis before the end of the season or he's lost his last chance to stay in F1. He can't rely on Maldonaldo crashing in races just to gain points on him.

    He needs to find the form he had at Malaysia and China and apply to it every weekend.
     
  6. Tom

    Tom Premium

    Messages:
    6,322
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Thing is, we've seen what happens Senna overdrives the car, Spain qualifying is a prime example of that. He needs to find the sweet spot between overdriving and being right on the limit, as you said Malaysia and China is what he needs to reperform. Ginsters has shown that the car can win but let's face it, he's not that great, without the win he'd only have 4 points and Senna would be ahead in the standings.
     
  7. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

    Messages:
    33,155
    Location:
    Peru
    He did push hard in Canada. The Wall of Champions just pushed back.
     
  8. hornet_burnout

    hornet_burnout

    Messages:
    2,740
    Location:
    Portugal
    I think you nailed it Ardius. It is an interesting way of seeing it, and a good strategy when you're not comfortable with the car and have a reckless teammate, to play it safe.

    But Pastor has a win now, and Senna if he is (was?) thinking like that, he is not responding with consistency and points, quite the opposite:

    Maldonado:
    0-0-4-0-25-0-0
    Senna:
    0-8-6-0-0-1-0

    Here, he wasn't even near the wall when he lost it... it's like he's not "there" :grumpy:

     
  9. Ardius

    Ardius

    Messages:
    10,373
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    ^He lost it taking too much kerb - thats not necessarily showing a mistake where he isn't on the edge, just because he wasn't near the wall doesn't mean he wasn't pushing. Plenty of drivers before him have made the same exact mistake. It isn't called the wall of champions for nothing! And not every crash at this wall is the result from running wide - in fact quite the opposite, its usually because the drivers take too much kerb and lose grip.

    Its interesting though that this is the second time Senna has had a major mistake where he took too much kerb - he did the same thing in qualifying at Catalunya. Perhaps he needs to work on his lines a bit more - specifically his corner entries.
     
  10. hornet_burnout

    hornet_burnout

    Messages:
    2,740
    Location:
    Portugal
    Nailling it fast while focused and precise to gain precious .001 of a second, but just a bit too fast on exit is the traditional exageration on the wall of champions. We've seen that from Maldonado for instance.

    This is different. He missed the braking, then the entry speed, went in too fast, and still tried to make the corner. On FP, when he could've saved it by going straight as many drivers did this weekend. That is why I used this example to illustrate his "not there" state of mind.

    Maldonado is always going for it, he is more "in the zone" with the car than Senna that, when he pushes, makes these kind of mistakes, or holds back just a tad.


    edit
    Maldonado says Williams' form better than results in last two races suggest
    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100375
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2012
  11. nissman

    nissman

    Messages:
    2,431
    Location:
    Slovenia
  12. Prince.M5

    Prince.M5

    Messages:
    5,160
    Location:
    Malaysia
    Oh, the irony :lol:

    It happened to you, Michael. It happened...
     
  13. Azure Flare

    Azure Flare (Banned)

    Messages:
    9,894
    Location:
    "Here at the Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 team, we make the impossible possible."
     
  14. ROAD_DOGG33J

    ROAD_DOGG33J Premium

    Messages:
    9,379
    Location:
    United States
    He did say unless you choose so...cheater.
     
  15. ECGadget

    ECGadget

    Messages:
    2,723
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Hah, brilliant! This just proves that Michael Schumacher can do the Impossible :p
     
  16. MustangManiac

    MustangManiac Premium

    Messages:
    2,103
    Location:
    United States
    :tup:
    Yes, like win 7 world championships as well as writing a large portion of the F1 record book!
     
  17. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

    Messages:
    33,155
    Location:
    Peru
    Fixed.