2012 Canadian Grand Prix

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Ross, Jun 5, 2012.

  1. Mac K

    Mac K

    Messages:
    7,594
    Location:
    Canada
    Congrats to Hamilton, I don't know why but I had a feeling he would win from the start. I think Perez had an incredible drive as well.
     
  2. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

    Messages:
    33,155
    Location:
    Peru
    Sorry, but I've got to disagree with that. Maybe it was a mistake by the team to keep him out, but even when he was leading, Vettel never looked like he had control of the race. His entire strategy seemed to be "maintain pace with the others, then see where we are at the final stops and go from there".
     
  3. Dodzzz

    Dodzzz

    Messages:
    533
    Location:
    Indonesia
    Am I the only one that thinks this whole F1 (at least 2012 season) is fake? I suspect it's already been scripted before who's gonna win there and when..
    Come on, 7 different winner at the first 7 races??? this is just ridiculous..
    I knew it already that Lewis would win at Canada. and he won it strangely, with 2 stops strategy while vettel and alonso at one stop strategy (although vettel finally did two stops)
    all the dramatic seasons (Kimi's first WDC), fairy tale (Brawn & Jenson), Vettel dominance, etc, etc, and now this??? remember Alonso win at Sepang? with his ridiculously slow car? (now it feels like Perez was deliberately goes off track for Alonso's scripted win???)
    I'm thinking to stop watching F1 seriously.. it's no different than fake reality show now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2012
  4. Northstar

    Northstar Premium

    Messages:
    21,437
    Location:
    United States
    :lol:

    The only "fake" part about this year has been DRS.
    Did you forget the raining part?

    Bernie doesn't control the weather, even though he has pondered the idea.
     
  5. gorsad

    gorsad

    Messages:
    1,613
    Location:
    India
    How do you script qualifying?
     
  6. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

    Messages:
    33,155
    Location:
    Peru
    Yes.

    Why on earth would all the teams agree to that?

    Nobody thought it was ridiculous when there were six winners in the first six races of the 1951 season.

    Then why didn't you put money on it?

    Red Bull and Ferrari probably thought that they could hold on. Why would they leave their cars out there if they didn't think it was possible?

    Right, because Alonso shouldn't have been rewarded for accurately reading the weather conditions and keeping his cool.

     
  7. corporatesteve

    corporatesteve

    Messages:
    289
    If I was CEO of F1, i would introduce v10-12's, the stickiest tires possible, unlimited testing, no restrictions.... that would be F1. Im tired of this whole the most aerodynamic efficient car wins ( that **** is for salt flats drag racing )....I want to see engines upgraded and new crazy suspension systems.... btw someone kick massa from this sport. great race though.
     
  8. Northstar

    Northstar Premium

    Messages:
    21,437
    Location:
    United States
    The problem is that money is extremely limited, all you need to do is look at the number of pay drivers on the grid to see that an unlimited concept would fail.
     
  9. astrosdude91

    astrosdude91

    Messages:
    4,579
    Location:
    United States
    If we had that, then we would only have the top few teams with the most money win and everyone else by themselves. We have that already now to a degree. But with your unlimited everything way, it would be about ten times worse.
     
  10. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

    Messages:
    33,155
    Location:
    Peru
    We had that. It was called the 2004 season. And it was boring, because one team won everything.
     
  11. Dodzzz

    Dodzzz

    Messages:
    533
    Location:
    Indonesia

    Have you watched wrestling? I forgot the names, WWE or smackdown if I'm not mistaken. It's purely for entertainment, and it is scripted. and I suspect F1 is the massive scale of that kind of entertainment.

    Teams will be paid money of course, think of it like a big circus who travel around the world (with expensive cars).

    Think about it, why F1 is much more alive, full of drama, and so fun to watch compare to other "boring" racing series?

    You can call this is ridiculous, but who knows?

    -----

    And you know these things exist, do you?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011–12_Italian_football_scandal

    Who knows? Alonso win at singapore was also fake, and Kimi mentioned a couple of years ago he is sick with F1 because of too much politics, and also Montoya.

    Of course I cannot prove my crazy theory, lol.. I can only suspect, BUT can you disprove it?
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2012
  12. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

    Messages:
    10,324
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Miss Australia did we? :idea: I don't see a tyre issue there.

    Button's issue was losing time on Friday. F1 is very competitive this year and you cannot afford to lose set up and development time like that. If you do, two or three TEAMS will take your place in a flash.

    Look at the three drivers who dominated this race for a perfect example of this. Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel.

    Only one of them finished on the podium.

    The other two make slight tactical mistakes and that was enough to allow a Lotus-Ranault and a Sauber onto the podium.

    The margins are super close this year.

    I can easily see both Lotus-Renault and Sauber winning this season and if the cards fall right I can see Force India winning as well.

    To those, you can add the teams that have already won so far.

    That's a lot of drivers ready to take advantage of any slip by anyone.
     
  13. Peasantslayer

    Peasantslayer

    Messages:
    2,998
    The car is far more important than the driver. People forget that out of 7 billion people these drivers are roughly the top 24 for the job, we've seen GT5 time trials with about 100,000 people taking part and they are close at the top. I'd like to see Button do better but if the balance of the car isn't perfect then he just moans, lapped by Hamilton without any major problems just isn't good enough.
     
  14. RX-7_FD3S

    RX-7_FD3S

    Messages:
    2,719
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Congratulations to lewis, he finaly did it, I'm so happy :D

    Great race form Perez and Grosjean as well, same initial strategy than vettel and Alonso but they could take it to the end. Great job.

    Another misfire for Massa and Button.
    I'm beginning to think that Schumacher is cursed, he just can't have a race without a problem.

    Great race overall.
     
  15. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

    Messages:
    33,155
    Location:
    Peru
    I don't know about Force India. They seem to show a lot of promise in the first phase of the race, but come the first round of stops, they just seem to vanish. Paul di Resta was running as high as fifth at one point there, but we never saw him again after the stops.

    But I think that Grosjean and Perez have the capacity to win this year. Not sure about Raikkonen and Kobayashi, though. When Raikkonen's on form, he's on form. When he isn't, the team might as well save themselves the trouble and go down to the pub. I've never seen a driver whose results are so dictated by his attitude on Friday mornings. Sooner or later, Lotus will say enough is enough and will start supporting Grosjean first. especially since they have a real chance of catching McLaren.

    As for Kobayashi, I think he's only really rediscovering his mojo in the last three rounds or so. He really needs to start banking points before he can think about winning.
     
  16. DaxCobra

    DaxCobra

    Messages:
    9,303
    Location:
    England
    Biast much? :scared:
     
  17. Peasantslayer

    Peasantslayer

    Messages:
    2,998
    Surely that's sarcasm. Didn't Hamilton pit from the lead? so he would have finished ahead of Alonso then Vettel would have been behind him. Drive of the day was probably Perez followed by Hamilton.
     
  18. Bram Turismo

    Bram Turismo Premium

    Messages:
    10,677
    Location:
    Belgium
    I was in bed back then :p
     
  19. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

    Messages:
    33,155
    Location:
    Peru
    Based on some comments from Ted Kravitz, it appears HRT knew that they were not going to make it to the end of the race. Both de la Rosa and Karthikeyan retired within two laps of one another with the same problem, giving rise to the theory that HRT knew their brakes would not last the distance (and also leading to them fuelling their cars very lightly). Does anyone know anything about this? It really is something that the stewards should investigate.
     
  20. Prince.M5

    Prince.M5

    Messages:
    5,160
    Location:
    Malaysia
    My driver of the day is Perez followed closely by Grosjean. He fought from 15th place to finish 3rd is a remarkable effort. We know that the Sauber is easy on tyres, but the way he manage that and still clocking some fastest laps is still great. Towards the end of the race, he and Grosjean were hunting down Hamilton, be it that the race was a couple of laps longer, those guys could've got to the back of Hamilton and probably a race win for one of them...

    That Sauber is one hell of a car in race trim but struggle in qualifying form. I think in Valencia both the Sauber and Lotus can really show something like in Canada.

    Yeah, I do know about this. Steve Slater, the Star Sports commentator did say that both the HRT will have brake problem in the race and as De La Rosa's car being pushed back into the garage, he said it was just about time. Even De La Rosa himself commented on that on Friday.

    I think the last time around a car had an exploded brake was a Force India of Sutil in Hungaroring 2009/2010.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2012
  21. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

    Messages:
    33,155
    Location:
    Peru
    Well, the stewards should investigate then. If HRT knew the brakes wouldn't last the distance, then they were entering the race with a car that could not complete the race, and by virtue of that, they did not intend to complete the race.

    More worryingly, you could make the case that they knowingly endangered their drivers. If they knew the brakes would eventually disintegrate, they should have withdrawn on the spot. What would have happened if Karthikeyan or de la Rosa had their brake failures on the approach to the Casino hairpin or the final chicane?
     
  22. Prince.M5

    Prince.M5

    Messages:
    5,160
    Location:
    Malaysia
    Karthikeyan's brake did fail at the first corner, lucky the first corner and not elsewhere on the track. I agree though, this should be investigated by the FIA as this is related to the drivers safety. I think HRT thought that they could manage the brakes to somehow make it to the end even though they knew it will not make it.

    This needs to be looked at, I agree.
     
  23. Hun200kmh

    Hun200kmh

    Messages:
    6,460
    Location:
    Portugal
    Indeed this should be investigated. Start&Park cars are a joke to the sport and a fraud to spectators.
     
  24. gorsad

    gorsad

    Messages:
    1,613
    Location:
    India
    Hmmm... they were gaining on Hamilton but I got the feeling that he was holding back. If they got within striking distance I would've expected to see a flurry of fast-ish laps from Hamilton.

    On another note, did Massa make a unplanned stop, I heard the commentators on Star Sports saying something like that but was unsure.
     
  25. Prince.M5

    Prince.M5

    Messages:
    5,160
    Location:
    Malaysia
    Yeah, thought of that too but there was a chance for them to catch Hamilton if there were a couple of laps more.

    I'm not sure on Massa's part though. When he complained about getting some vibrations, he did stop I think..
     
  26. gorsad

    gorsad

    Messages:
    1,613
    Location:
    India
    If he did stop I made an interesting calculation about that.

    He finished 25 seconds behind the leaders, a pitstop takes about 20-23. As stupid as this may be, he could've finished second, and thats before his accident (or maybe I'm horribly wrong, probably).
     
  27. Prince.M5

    Prince.M5

    Messages:
    5,160
    Location:
    Malaysia
    While he did stop, I think he didn't make any extra stop. He only did 2 stop as most drivers were. I think he lost those 25 seconds partly due to getting stuck behind traffic and all, not because he made an unscheduled extra stop.

    The only driver who did 4 stops was Button.
     
  28. Pagey279

    Pagey279

    Messages:
    4,077
    Location:
    England
    Massa did spin fairly early on, he had just passed Rosberg (I think) and was a few seconds down the road and spun going through the first corner, he then rejoined in traffic. That might have been what done it.
     
  29. CarolinaBlue704

    CarolinaBlue704

    Messages:
    311
    Location:
    United States
    *Yawn*
     
  30. Peasantslayer

    Peasantslayer

    Messages:
    2,998
    I agree with what Jacques Villeneuve said about the Lotus, it is possibly the fastest car out there but it is being driven by 2 drivers who are currently below par. Grosjean is making Kimi look slow in qualifying and Alonso made Grosjean look terrible when they were team mates. I would like to see one of them replaced at some point so we can see how fast that car is, I think Heikki could do a better job than they are. Hamilton was maintaining the gap to Grosjean at the end and on the last lap he lost a lot of time because he wasn't taking any risks.