2013 Petronas Malaysian Grand Prix
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Tired Tyres
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- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
That's from Post 1007 on the previous page as pointed out by dann.
Bild = BS. Didn't you know that?
Bild = BS. Didn't you know that?
Tired Tyres said it all already.
False. Three teams (Brawn GP, Williams and Toyota) started the season with DDD and only Brawn used a Mercedes engine.
And other teams followed with DDD later in the season, Red Bull with a Renault engine and Ferrari with, obviously, a Ferrari engine.
It's just my guess why I think some think Honda will be competitive if they return to the sport. It's probably wrong.
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- Kimky
- Kimky
There's nothing in that article saying that Webber is going to stop racing, it's just saying that he probably wont sign a new contract next year with RBR and tells stuff we already knows like their rivalry is going to be even higher after what happen in Malaysia and that Vettel went to work on simulator while Webber is going back to australia to surf. I might have miss one or two small things because my german is rusty but it's basically that.
- 9,089
- Scotland
Not false at all actually the Honda was reduced in length by 6 inches for the Mercedes engine, now because of this it effected the cooling of the engine which cause it to run "hot" so they looked at ways to help cool it which in turn effected the airflow over the rear hence the creation of the DD
that's how brawn created it.
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- pj-gm
- PJwasHere876
30 years ago, the difference between a good engine and a bad engine was explosions and huge differences in horsepower. Now, it's really just a few horses, torque bands, engine mapping. I'm trying to say that things are more static and the engines will be more alike than ever, so it might be hard for Honda to not produce a competitive engine if they do come back.
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- HamiltonMP427
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- jjaisli
The teams all run a standard, FIA approved ECU. A forced induction system would be very difficult to keep hidden.
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What he means is when Formula One switches to the forced induction engines, that teams might be able to cheat.
But yes, that would be pretty hard to do with a standardized ECU in which all programmable parameters are controlled. Unless a team finds some creative way to spray engine coolant into the intake for some instant boost.
But yes, that would be pretty hard to do with a standardized ECU in which all programmable parameters are controlled. Unless a team finds some creative way to spray engine coolant into the intake for some instant boost.
- 9,744
- Las Vegas UTC-8
- Wardez
- Wardez
I was watching the World Driver's Championship and World Constructor's Championship at the same time. They've been running for longer than 10 years, you're right.
I shouldn't have to be doing this and spelling things out for you. But you decided to jump down my throat for some reason so now I'm obliged.
Renault Sport F1 only makes engines, they are not a constructor anymore. They, being solely a supplier, have more money dedicated toward engine development than anyone else precisely because that's their only job.
Ferrari, RB, McLaren, have hundreds of millions to spend every year, but that money is spread throughout their entire program, where Renault has been making a killing being the major supplier to so many teams and being so successful with them, signing extensions left and right. So with the engine freeze being in place since 2007, and especially after their withdrawal from Le Mans racing in 2012, has allowed them all the time in the world to engineer a dream package for their clients from 2014 on.
But also, if you're gonna back up and try to say Ferrari as a car company, or Mercedes-Benz as a world conglomerate car manufacturer, has more money than Renault, well you certainly got me there didn't you?
Others in this thread have done a great job of denouncing this. I'll add that before the engine freeze, a lot of companies were having trouble with engine reliability and developing aggressively. Honda did see a lot of trouble with their new V8 in '06 but after the freeze they were doing swimmingly, most of their retirements as a constructor were due to accidents and other mechanical failures, really not an outstanding pope election record.
What a strong case against Honda, can't believe I didn't think of that before.
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Clearly not well research I see.
The Honda engine produced the most power but the least torque(nothing new there then) , Renault sport again are not well funded in fact the only engine supplier is Cosworth. But then if your going there Renault never have been as its always been known as Enstone
Would be very interested in what lemans car Renault Sport stopped in 2012
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- Wardez
- Wardez
Clearly not well research I see.
The Honda engine produced the most power but the least torque(nothing new there then) , Renault sport again are not well funded in fact the only engine supplier is Cosworth. But then if your going there Renault never have been as its always been known as Enstone
Would be very interested in what lemans car Renault Sport stopped in 2012
Alright, just gotta get my glaring mistake out of the way first here. I somehow had it in my mind that Peugeot and Renault were the same thing. Hopefully someone can forgive me since I'd expect maybe someone from Europe may get Dodge and Chevrolet mixed up in the same fashion
What's "not well research(ed)"?
And what does saying Honda produced the most power but least torque have to do with the argument I was presenting?
Anyway, it seems you ignored the points I made about budgeting among teams and how Renault doesn't have to deal with any of that. I don't know why you're bringing up Enstone, that's Lotus now. Renault is French, building their engines out of Viry-Châtillon.
You seem very confident in assuming RSF1 aren't well funded. Where's your source that lays that idea out?
Here's my source showing that not only is RSF1 doing very well, but expanding (French article, Google translate it and you'll be able to understand more than enough):
http://www.confidential-renault.fr/Renault-Sport-F1-a-parfaitement-maitrise-i3348
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- 9,089
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Maybe my google translate is broke but budget being under "control" doesn't translate as well funded.
For 2014 Renaultsport's budget is actually 200 million , Mercedes is £250 million , Ferrari is undisclosed so that means A Pack Of Tropical Fruit Bubblicious and some Skittles and Cosworth state they need at least 150 million.
Now with engine supply costs at 10 million per team they will never recup the costs which is why it's rumour some of the engine may end up in lemans series.
For 2014 Renaultsport's budget is actually 200 million , Mercedes is £250 million , Ferrari is undisclosed so that means A Pack Of Tropical Fruit Bubblicious and some Skittles and Cosworth state they need at least 150 million.
Now with engine supply costs at 10 million per team they will never recup the costs which is why it's rumour some of the engine may end up in lemans series.
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- Kimky
- Kimky
Yeah it's probably broken, my mothertongue is french and I can assure you that the first sentence end with At renault, they are telling us that the cost were perfectly managed. And they repeat several time that the budget for renault is perfect, they even hired 60 new engineers.
About the budget, I dont know if you're mixing enstone with Renault again so unless you provide a link I can't tell. However there's something I can tell you, it's that Ferrari and Mercedes have a much bigger budget because they need to make the whole car, while Renault only make engine.
- 22,549
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- HamiltonMP427
What he means is when Formula One switches to the forced induction engines, that teams might be able to cheat.
But yes, that would be pretty hard to do with a standardized ECU in which all programmable parameters are controlled. Unless a team finds some creative way to spray engine coolant into the intake for some instant boost.
That what I was thinking, or find a way to get cooler air to the turbo...we'll wait and see. The FIA isn't know for making solid rules that are air tight.
We were taking about the new engines, you didn't get what I was saying I can see. Did you know that F1 will be running V6 turbos next year?
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- jjaisli
I am aware of the switch to V6 turbos, although I did misunderstand your post. So I'm running 50/50.
But either way, the FIA takes a very dim view of these things. And we just have to look back at Toyota's foray into the WRC in the early 90s to see what happens when you get caught.
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- AlexGibbo27
I've just been watching the F1 show on Sky Sports. Nigel Roebuck was a guest and he referred to the people calling Vettel 'a real racing driver' for doing what he did at the weekend. He concluded with something like "If you want a real racing driver, that would be Gilles Villeneuve, and he would never have done anything like what Vettel did last weekend".
Completely agreed.
Completely agreed.
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- Wardez
- Wardez
Sad how he mentioned that since there was similar trouble between Gilles and Didier Pironi at the San Marino GP.
Ferrari had 1-2 and told their drivers to slow down and keep the positions. Gilles trusted his teammate but was overtaken on the last lap. He was furious and promised to never talk again to Pironi. During the next weekend in Zolder, while trying to beat his teammate's time in qualifying, Gilles had an accident. A fatal one. Later on in the season Pironi had his own career-ending crash in Hockenheim.
These things never end well, there should be certain kind of respect between drivers and teammates.
Oh man, watching this video, which is 22 minutes of highlights from the pitradio channel, was very interesting but hearing how Vettel was pretty much crying about being scared of Mark and being forced to pass him. wtf.
http://youtu.be/8xppm9tzXc8?t=15m6s
(after the pass) "I-I was really scared --- all of the sudden he was moving and I had to leave the line."
Ferrari had 1-2 and told their drivers to slow down and keep the positions. Gilles trusted his teammate but was overtaken on the last lap. He was furious and promised to never talk again to Pironi. During the next weekend in Zolder, while trying to beat his teammate's time in qualifying, Gilles had an accident. A fatal one. Later on in the season Pironi had his own career-ending crash in Hockenheim.
These things never end well, there should be certain kind of respect between drivers and teammates.
Oh man, watching this video, which is 22 minutes of highlights from the pitradio channel, was very interesting but hearing how Vettel was pretty much crying about being scared of Mark and being forced to pass him. wtf.
http://youtu.be/8xppm9tzXc8?t=15m6s
(after the pass) "I-I was really scared --- all of the sudden he was moving and I had to leave the line."
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- 50
Christian Horner has admitted in an interview with Sky F1 saying that multi 21 means car 2 ahead of car 1.
"Ted Kravitz: Do you know there are "Multi 21" T-Shirts?
Christaan: We also do Multi 12 T-shirts.
Ted: So what does that mean?
Christian: Look it's not that hard to translate, "Multi 21" means car 2 ahead of car 1 and "Multi 12" means car 1 ahead of car 2. We'll have to stop using that and come up with a new code."
A bit old but I just thought I'd share that. I should be an F1 translator!
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- Ardius_
So does anyone think this will affect Vettel's psyche at all? I mean obviously its not the greatest way to start the season and boost team morale and the reaction from the team is surely going to have some effect if only for the short-term? It could spur him on to try even harder or make him back off, we have seen so very clearly with Hamilton what can go wrong if your head isn't right. But Vettel seems a very focused and committed character..so its hard to think of him really getting rattled.
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- Wardez
- Wardez
Yeah, I don't think so. He'll probably be scared of Mark more, that's about it, but he'll still go for the moves, it'll just be a bit more terrifying of a ride for him. But hell, he's a racing driver, he probably gets a sick rush from it all xD.
He's extremely committed, he looks up to Schumacher more than anyone, so what does that say?
I don't know if it'll make him more aggressive of not in the short term, but he's been through more before and bounced back quite regularly, so I think he'll just be back to normal fairly quickly, if there's a gap at all.
He's extremely committed, he looks up to Schumacher more than anyone, so what does that say?
I don't know if it'll make him more aggressive of not in the short term, but he's been through more before and bounced back quite regularly, so I think he'll just be back to normal fairly quickly, if there's a gap at all.
Strawman Andy
(Banned)
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I don't think this has actually effected him. His response to the media was controlled and while he apologized he didn't seem to look guilty, just his normal face really. I honestly think Vettel believes he wasn't in the wrong, because he is so childish in his attitude. When things don't go Vettel's way he just moans and blames everyone else. When he has done wrong, and knows it, he seems to basically say yeah it was a mistake, no biggie, nothing that bad.
I believe it will effect the relationships within the team, Webber might start doubting the team, the team start doubting if Vettel will obey. It might be short term if addressed but if not it could grow into bigger issues. I'd also like to say that there was clear team orders at Mercedes with Brawn saying it to Nico. But with RB there wasn't a message that was said to Vettel sayings "stay behind Webber til the end." Maybe next time they should so Vettel can understand more/have no reason to not understand.
I believe it will effect the relationships within the team, Webber might start doubting the team, the team start doubting if Vettel will obey. It might be short term if addressed but if not it could grow into bigger issues. I'd also like to say that there was clear team orders at Mercedes with Brawn saying it to Nico. But with RB there wasn't a message that was said to Vettel sayings "stay behind Webber til the end." Maybe next time they should so Vettel can understand more/have no reason to not understand.
Dotini
(Banned)
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Racing drivers strutting, posing and pouting has been par for the course since at least the days of de Portago and Moss, if the literature is to be believed. Psychological failures of ace drivers is an obscure subject.
I think Vettel is in the process of taking control of yet another season, Webber will yield in submission (all the way to the bank) and the rest of us will just have to get used to it. This is provided Newey figures out the tires, McLaren stalls out, Lotus fails to rise back up, and the incredible Massa continues to frustrate his more illustrious team mate.
Respectfully,
Steve
I think Vettel is in the process of taking control of yet another season, Webber will yield in submission (all the way to the bank) and the rest of us will just have to get used to it. This is provided Newey figures out the tires, McLaren stalls out, Lotus fails to rise back up, and the incredible Massa continues to frustrate his more illustrious team mate.
Respectfully,
Steve
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- GTP_BlacqueJack
I would disagree.
I thought I heard "hold station Sebastien" and save your tires, and also based on the podium winners green room conversations and the look on Newey's face
And the interview above
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