2013 Petronas Malaysian Grand Prix

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Tired Tyres
Hello Rosberg fanboy.

If Hamilton was saving fuel from HALF WAY, don't you think Rosberg wouldn't have been in front of him if he wasn't fuel saving as well?

What part of Mercedes not putting enough fuel in the car because they expected a Safety Car don't you get?

Neither Mercedes could win today. Deal with it.
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You've gotta be kidding me. Which part of NICO HAD NO ORDERS TO SLOW DOWN HIS CAR do you not understand? At no point in the grand prix he was told to slow down until he asked Brawn to let him past Hamilton and catch the Red Bulls. He always caught up with Hamilton from far away and I remember clearly in the last stint, when Lewis was asked again to "lift and coast" that it's the moment Rosberg's been waiting for to fight for the lead. He caught Hamilton from a distance and by the time he was asked to stay back he was more than 2 seconds off the pace.

You are either blind or an idiot, deal with it.

Aderrrm
Ew.

If you take your own advice then you would have seen that the rev counter was shown for both Hamilton's and Rosberg's car, and both of them were changing down as late as possible up to the point where they needed to accelerate at the exit of a corner.
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That was after Rosberg's been asked to drop back and leave a gap.

Sureboss
Because that would have been any better? When at the point Rosberg was quicker was when Hamilton had the engined turned down and was saving fuel and tyres (as they both were, but gather Hamilton had more fuel to save), it would have been no fairer a fight and a token gesture that would have left the same feelings within the team just with different drivers.
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Rosberg was faster than Hamilton from lap 1 despite having a heavier car. What are you talking about? You were probably listening to Brundle's commentary who never mentioned Rosberg getting fastest lap after fastest lap.

And for the last time, Rosberg was NOT saving fuel. It was just a PR thing. No one even mentioned anything about Rosberg saving fuel until Wolff's interview after the race.

RX-7_FD3S
You obviously dont know Ross Brawn because he used and abused of that strategy with Schumacher at Ferrari.
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I don't like Brawn but when did he abuse it with Schumacher? I can only remember one incident. Refresh my memory.
 
zed300
I don't recall seeing both RBR cars in the pits at the same time. That would be stupid unless a full yellow was in place, which it wasn't.

IMO:The difference between Silverstone and Sepang, was MW in Silverstone, did not overtake (maybe he was trying or maybe just trying to put the ****s up SEB), but the result was, as the team asked of him. Sepang was not.
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I don't mean literally in the pit at the same time, but that Webber came in soon enough to avoid being passed I the pit, which surely would have happened.

Your other point makes no sense - that disobeying team orders is ok, as long as you don't succeed in your goal. Webber was too slow to pass Vettel, but that doesn't make his attempt any more or less noble.
 
@Tired Tyres

Radio to Hamilton: Lift and coast
[later on]
Radio to Rosberg: Great work, push push push
[Rosberg catches Hamilton and tries to overtake, Hamilton re-overtakes]
Rosberg: Let me pass
Brawn: Negative, he's saving fuel.


Find me transcripts of the team radio as well as time sheets and tell me where Rosberg had to save fuel.
 
Vis-a-vis the Red Bull squabble, the two most interested onlookers at this point are no doubt Buemi and Hulkenberg -- Buemi because he might be in the car in China, Hulkenberg because it's now obvious Red Bull will have a driver vacancy come the end of the year.

And for what-ifs, imagine what might've happened Sunday had Hamilton been in Webber's seat as Bernie would've wished.
 
When Hamilton went say hello to his former co-workers it cost him 5 seconds! which is a lot in this sport...so if that didnt happen would we be talking about Hamilton-Rosberg, i dont think so..
 
Hehe..

488127_480946815294036_722835822_n.jpg
 
BHRxRacer
I don't like Brawn but when did he abuse it with Schumacher? I can only remember one incident. Refresh my memory.
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During Schumacher area at Ferrari it's no secret that he told his second drivers (beeing either Barrichello or Irvine) to let Michael pass. The most notorious one beeing the AI GP for Barrichello. He's the reason I hate ferrari as a team now. After that he had to do it more smartly because F1 introduce the no team order rules even if they were still here in a way or another.

Also after the Massa 2010 incident in Germany he said again that for him team order is a must in f1 and that it should have his place.
 
Forster
It's code for stay in position.

My opinion I think the "multi" means multiple finish and the "21" stands for the car numbers, i.e. Mark (Car 2) first, Seb (Car 1) 2nd.

If they wanted Seb first it would be 'Multi 12'.
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That's an interesting interpretation. I just thought it was an engine mode designed for cruising to the end of the race.
 
MUSC4EVER
When Hamilton went say hello to his former co-workers it cost him 5 seconds! which is a lot in this sport...so if that didnt happen would we be talking about Hamilton-Rosberg, i dont think so..
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He lost no less than 15 seconds in the last stint(with only 12 seconds behind Vettel, which is why I think he could challenge). I Don't think the 5 second Jenson would've mattered.

RX-7_FD3S
During Schumacher area at Ferrari it's no secret that he told his second drivers (beeing either Barrichello or Irvine) to let Michael pass. The most notorious one beeing the AI GP for Barrichello. He's the reason I hate ferrari as a team now. After that he had to do it more smartly because F1 introduce the no team order rules even if they were still here in a way or another.

Also after the Massa 2010 incident in Germany he said again that for him team order is a must in f1 and that it should have his place.
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This bothers me a lot. When Michael was told to let Irvine pass in 1999 nobody said a word. When anyone else was told to let Michael pass everyone raged.

I understand why team orders are in place, as long as the reason is good enough(ie, mathematically impossible to change the standings for both drivers). If it has to happen at the start of the season, then a good reason would be that both cars are on different strategies or both cars need to save tyres(Webber/Vettel).
 
It just shows how Vettel, who has had his bottom wiped all his life, has lost or perhaps never had, the ability to conceal the animosity that exists between him and his much older, and self-made team mate. To announce over the radio "Mark is too slow, get him out of the way" just proves this. Ok, the Mercs were closing in, but there's a way of delivering things.

He's a statitician, and just doesn't have the artistry and humility of the great drivers that have come before him. I bet he has a personal goal to try and win 100 GPs and 10 world titles.

I just hope Webber can dig deep and find something extra so that he can maintain a level head, but it's going to be tough to say the least.

But at least Vettel is suspicious that Hamilton is probably faster then he is, which should keep him in check.
 
I hope Webber returns the favour to Seb later on this season .

Who laughs last laughs best
 
MUSC4EVER
Webber says he is considering his future....
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That's silly. He's got a great Newey ride, maybe the best. So what if he's got a teammate who's an habitual liar and a man of low character? Webber will not want to lower himself in any way, so he'll stay and keep his mouth shut.

Respectfully,
Steve
 
I hope Webber doesn't leave, the sport really needs a bit of drama like this every once in a while! I want to see tense battles like this on track, it gives a bit more weight to the fight we are seeing - you know both drivers are putting everything they can into beating the other guy.
The BTCC basically thrives off the Plato/Neal rivalry and you know everytime they are close on track something is going to happen!

I think the sport is poorer without rivalries like this.
 
I think ANY sport is poorer without rivalries!

Webber: 'Obviously we need to sit down and have a chat to see where we go from here, theres three weeks till the next race so we'll see what happens before then..'
 
After hearing Vettel, at some point during the race, asking the team this, :

‘Mark is too slow, get him out of the way.’

It is almost funny to realize that later in the race he directly confronted team orders and caught Mark off guard to steal victory for himself.

Vettel hasn't grown since that famous "loony finger" at Turkey 2010 (insulting his own team mate in front of the world audience, after an accident that he caused). And that is sad, considering he has gained the WDC 3 times after that.

As for Nico, I have - and for years now - great respect for him. I think he is constantly underrated although he has beaten all his team mates to date, with the exception of his rookie year (2006) against Mark Webber, even then not by much and in a season where his - very bad - car made him DNF half the season's events.

But, as I said to my son, watching the GP with me, Ross Brawn's orders were nothing but stupid and he shouldn't have accepted them. I fear he will be "Rubenized" by Brawn, and finish his career with a "could've been but something was missing" label.

In short, I dislike team orders, even more so early in the season. Apparently Nico is willing to submit to them, and for that gained no respect from me.

Also apparently, Vettel likes them, and even begs for them, if to his favour. But is not willing to submit to them if they don't go his way. No respect there also. In fact, he lost the litle I still had for him.


EDIT - Just to clarify. I dislike team orders, but I do accept they are part of the game in F1 and I strongly advocate they should be allowed, don't like "coded messages". However, just as with everything, I feel entitled as a fan to have my own judgement on "good" and "bad" team orders. And IMO the way Brawn used his power to issue team orders was not only silly but entirely stupid. I know he is Ross Brawn and I'm just a fan (saying it before someone points it out to me :D ), but I've seen many stupid calls in F1 before and I do have common sense, something Brawn clearly lacked last sunday. Just as Todt (President of the FIA and I'm a simple fan, don't remind me) was stupid at Austria 2002. Maybe he was following Brawn's advice back then, who knows ...
 
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Hun200kmh
EDIT - Just to clarify. I dislike team orders, but I do accept they are part of the game in F1 and I strongly advocate they should be allowed, don't like "coded messages". However, just as with everything, I feel entitled as a fan to have my own judgement on "good" and "bad" team orders. And IMO the way Brawn used his power to issue team orders was not only silly but entirely stupid. I know he is Ross Brawn and I'm just a fan (saying it before someone points it out to me :D ), but I've seen many stupid calls in F1 before and I do have common sense, something Brawn clearly lacked last sunday. Just as Todt (President of the FIA and I'm a simple fan, don't remind me) was stupid at Austria 2002. Maybe he was following Brawn's advice back then, who knows ...
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I'm sorry but you can't say that Brawn order were stupid, you can say that you didnt like them, that's ok, everyone is free to have his opinion, however you can't say it was stupid because like I said before, they finished 3rd and 4th, which was what they were aiming for. If he didnt issued this order, Rosberg and Hamilton would have probably fight which would have emptied Lewis tank and there would be 1 or even worst 0 Mercedes at the end of the GP. Again from a team persepective what did Brawn was totally legit and I understand it. You have to take into account everything happening around that team atm.

I dont like it, I never will but it's understandable.
 
Picture it this way, instead of a team mate it's someone from another team, like Massa.

Of course in such a scenario Hamilton will have no intention to allow an easy pass, but if he decides to fight this rival he'll lose the fuel he needs to end the race. In this situation a clever driver will salvage what he can, not risk a most certain DNF. Even against a rival. Why would he be even less intelligent against his own team mate?

I don't think Lewis would put up much of a fight and I think Rosberg overtook him in the first DRS zone (allowing a re-pass by Lewis without fighting it) just to show he was able to go by and go away. He probably should've come, make the pass on the SECOND DRS zone and go away without asking or listening for any kind of instruction.
 
RX-7_FD3S
I'm sorry but you can't say that Brawn order were stupid, you can say that you didnt like them, that's ok, everyone is free to have his opinion, however you can't say it was stupid because like I said before, they finished 3rd and 4th, which was what they were aiming for. If he didnt issued this order, Rosberg and Hamilton would have probably fight which would have emptied Lewis tank and there would be 1 or even worst 0 Mercedes at the end of the GP. Again from a team persepective what did Brawn was totally legit and I understand it. You have to take into account everything happening around that team atm.

I dont like it, I never will but it's understandable.
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It wasn't stupid, it was evil. He should've ordered Hamilton to let Nico pass and chase the Red bulls. What's wrong with that?
 
^ Or let Nico pass in the last corner. That would be a great gentleman gesture from Lewis... ignoring Ross Brawn in this way would be a GREAT decision in my point of view.
 
Hamilton and Rosberg is probably the best partnership Mercedes can have, commercially. They have possibly the quickest driver on the grid in Hamilton and a German in a German team in Rosberg (who is also quick). I am sure that this early in the season they don't want to dissadvantage any driver, just score maximum points whilst the McLaren isn't competitive, the Ferrari didn't look to be, just like the Lotus and Alonso was out.

It would get much more difficult in the year for them to score points so they may as well give the ones they can gather now to the driver most likely to challenge for the championship (where possible).
 
BHRxRacer
You've gotta be kidding me. Which part of NICO HAD NO ORDERS TO SLOW DOWN HIS CAR do you not understand? At no point in the grand prix he was told to slow down until he asked Brawn to let him past Hamilton and catch the Red Bulls. He always caught up with Hamilton from far away and I remember clearly in the last stint, when Lewis was asked again to "lift and coast" that it's the moment Rosberg's been waiting for to fight for the lead. He caught Hamilton from a distance and by the time he was asked to stay back he was more than 2 seconds off the pace.

You are either blind or an idiot, deal with it.


That was after Rosberg's been asked to drop back and leave a gap.


Rosberg was faster than Hamilton from lap 1 despite having a heavier car. What are you talking about? You were probably listening to Brundle's commentary who never mentioned Rosberg getting fastest lap after fastest lap.

And for the last time, Rosberg was NOT saving fuel. It was just a PR thing. No one even mentioned anything about Rosberg saving fuel until Wolff's interview after the race.


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I don't like Brawn but when did he abuse it with Schumacher? I can only remember one incident. Refresh my memory.
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Don't address anyone like that again.
 

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