2013 Petronas Malaysian Grand Prix

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What a ****ing disgrace. I've never seen **** like this in F1 in my life. I'm sorry, but when Schumacher let Irvine go it was understandable. When Barrichello let Schumacher go it was understandable. When Massa let Alonso go it was understandable. Rosberg/Hamilton is just ****ing pathetic.

How the **** is it Rosberg's fault Hamilton burned up all his fuels and tyres 15 laps earlier than the race finish? For ****'s sake, Rosberg had been faster lap for lap throughout the race EVEN with the heavier car and without DRS that Hamilton kept getting the opportunity to use. Jesus christ. He was more than TWO ****ing SECONDS slower per lap behind Hamilton at the end. He could've easily caught both Red bulls and won the race.

I'm surprised he didn't snap Brawn's neck after the race.

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Rosberg might as well cable Hamilton's car next race and drag him to the finish in the final stint. ****.


Anyway losers of the week:
Rosberg
Webber
Alonso

Winners of the week:
Rosberg(if it makes sense)
Hulkenberg
Massa
Grosjean

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Sorry guys I just finished watching the race and I'm enraged.
 
IceMan PJN
I was just thinking, after reading several posts here and elsewhere...

People are mad because Vettel disobeyed team orders and consequently passed Webber, but at the same time are mad that Rosberg obeyed team orders by not passing Hamilton. So, in one instance a driver is criticized for disobeying orders and in another it's because a driver obeyed team orders. Clearly, it depends on how folks feel about the driver in question. It's popular to hate Hamilton so the cool kids wanted him passed by Rosberg, but it's popular to hate Vettel winning so the cool kids wanted him not to pass.
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The thing is, the Mercedes call was stupid, but both drivers where smart enough to abide. However, over at the Redbull camp, golden child decided to take things into his own hands. So, we hate Brawn for the stupid call, and Vettel/Horner for not abiding team orders. I believe if Mark and Seb raced to the end Webber would have come out on top.
 
rosberg seems to have a better handle of the car and/or tires at this stage , hami needs to look at his data/setup and figure out what he is doing wrong
 
BHRxRacer
Wouldn't have happened now if that was the case. They literally threw away a victory..
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Shouldn't have happened I agree still don't know wwhy, of course it's great Lewis gets a podium(the new boy) but not tthat way
 
BHRxRacer
Wouldn't have happened now if that was the case. They literally threw away a victory..
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He wouldn't have been able to challenge for the win, he was conserving fuel and tyres just like Hamilton was, just not as much.

I do see your point though, Hamilton could and probably should have just let Rosberg through.

SkengD
rosberg seems to have a better handle of the car and/or tires at this stage , hami needs to look at his data/setup and figure out what he is doing wrong
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It was fuel conservation he was doing mostly.
 
SimonK
He wouldn't have been able to challenge for the win, he was conserving fuel and tyres just like Hamilton was, just not as much.

I do see your point though, Hamilton could and probably should have just let Rosberg through.



It was fuel conservation he was doing mostly.
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LOOOOOOOL you seriously bought that?

Rosberg wasn't doing any conservation what so ever. They only started saying that after the race to save face. During the race, halfway through, you heard 10000 radio messages to Lewis telling him to save fuel. On the other hand, for the rest of the grand prix all Rosberg's engineer was saying is to PUSH PUSH PUSH and that he has nothing to save.

Go back and watch the race again please.
 
Interesting race. I feel Webber was cheated out of the win, but typical Vettel in my opinion... 👎

With regards to Mercedes, i'm happy for the team but can understand the frustrations felt. (Team order decision could have been contract based.. something along the lines of promising LH the best possible shot of a WDC, so maybe they were staying true to their promise/contract).

[EDIT]

Ultimately, Mercedes (i imagine) will have their eyes on finishing as high as possible in the constructors championship.. but the question is: Do they invest points in the driver who has the most points so far (LH),and give the WDC a shot as well, or is it being short-sighted, and should they have attributed the higher points to NR (less points so far) ?
 
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BHRxRacer
LOOOOOOOL you seriously bought that?

Rosberg wasn't doing any conservation what so ever. They only started saying that after the race to save face. During the race, halfway through, you heard 10000 radio messages to Lewis telling him to save fuel. On the other hand, for the rest of the grand prix all Rosberg's engineer was saying is to PUSH PUSH PUSH and that he has nothing to save.

Go back and watch the race again please.
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Hello Rosberg fanboy.

If Hamilton was saving fuel from HALF WAY, don't you think Rosberg wouldn't have been in front of him if he wasn't fuel saving as well?

What part of Mercedes not putting enough fuel in the car because they expected a Safety Car don't you get?

Neither Mercedes could win today. Deal with it.
 
F1 fan
Are you aware that you're contradicting yourself?
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I'd don't see how but, let me type in super slo-mo: Vettel had pole, Webber 5th. I'm sure the race was set for Vettel to win. RB didn't expect Alonso to retire and I'm sure RB didn't expect Webber to be in 2nd. Add Webbers cracking pace and strategy(good pitstops crew as well), Vettel expected to be ahead towards the end. I'm not for team orders but, it won't go away. This was clear cut "bring the cars home."
Now, I'm sure we expect Vettel to be ahead in the Championship come mid-season and I know Vettel is quicker than Webber in he RB. Poor form for Vettel THIS race.

Side note: I see posts with Vettel and Senna in the same sentence. Please, I'd like to cherish Senna's passionate quotes as they were for that time. Love that movie...
 
It was a bit boring race. Regarding the team orders, first off with Lewis and Nico.

I think what both Lewis and Nico did was right. They did not undermine their team boss, Lewis felt like giving up place to Nico and Nico felt like overtaking Lewis and it would have been easy to do but they showed respect and did as they were told.

I can understand my Ross did what he did, as both were most likely too marginal on fuel to fight with the Red Bulls. Lewis was obviously more on the limit at that stage of the race. Nico and Lewis did a few overtakes, it was up to Nico to make it stick on attempts he had which would have been hard due to double DRS. Ross most likely intervened so that Lewis did not get to stage of running out of fuel and also feeling a bit hard done by due to not having enough fuel to compete with Red Bull and then also losing place to his team mate. Secondly stopping Nico from getting too marginal on fuel and tyres by chasing Red Bull. It did look a bit silly at the end though.

Now on to Red Bull. I think it came about due to Sebastian probably not taking the call seriously, yes I know I am pointing out the obvious. Not respecting your team orders is not a route you don't want to go down often, handy to be 3 times WDC in these situations ;). Sebastian obviously realised this quite quickly after he got out of car and got understanding of his teams reaction. Will be interesting to see if Mark does fully get over it or if this will be the last season as pairing. Battles between them might get a bit more feisty. I think Sebastian was in a way fortunate, Mark didn't defend harder as it could have been more serious and he would have been in much more trouble then.

Back to the race, shame about Jenson, Adrian and also Paul regarding pit stop problem. Some reasonable battles in the race but going to my first point, it was rather boring. Need to get tyres like Bridgestones back so we can see everyone going flat out again trying to make the difference rather than crusing so much.

SkengD
rosberg seems to have a better handle of the car and/or tires at this stage , hami needs to look at his data/setup and figure out what he is doing wrong
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I think he already knows what went wrong for him going by his comments.
 
sems4arsenal
Worrying how Comfortable Red bull were to be honest.
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They wouldn't have been that comfortable, Lewis was even ahead of eventual race winner. Having too little fuel cost Mercedes taking the fight to Red Bull for race win. Also Fernando was not in the race and maybe Lotus could have done better if they started near the front. McLaren should be nearer the front next race probably so still there will be a close battle. Upgrades for most teams in China should make it interesting regarding pecking order.
 
I'm a big Vettel fan, but I do feel sorry for Webber who is such a nice guy, but move on and on the next one!👍:)
 
Not sure if Hamilton is abit miffed or if it is officially the most awkward Podium he has ever had with the teammates in 1-2 having tense feelings towards each other.
 
Most of the action was in the pit lane rather than on the track. Anyway, a Red Bull 1-2 and Alonso retired. Hard to have a better race than that.
 
I think the race was entertaining, but not because of the racing. Pit lane f-ups, drama etc, but I'd rather see more side-by-side action.

I really hope FIA/Pirelly realized the error of their ways and will bring a decent tire in three weeks. Otherwise it's gonna be a tire conservation fest (and, similarly a fuel-conservation fest as well, since they had to shave every kilo to make tires last).
 
dsgerbc
I really hope FIA/Pirelly realized the error of their ways and will bring a decent tire in three weeks. Otherwise it's gonna be a tire conservation fest (and, similarly a fuel-conservation fest as well, since they had to shave every kilo to make tires last).
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Now that you mention it, what would've happened if qualy was dry and drivers didn't have multiple sets of fresh rubber?
 
BHRxRacer
Rosberg wasn't doing any conservation what so ever. They only started saying that after the race to save face. During the race, halfway through, you heard 10000 radio messages to Lewis telling him to save fuel. On the other hand, for the rest of the grand prix all Rosberg's engineer was saying is to PUSH PUSH PUSH and that he has nothing to save.

Go back and watch the race again please.
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Ew.

If you take your own advice then you would have seen that the rev counter was shown for both Hamilton's and Rosberg's car, and both of them were changing down as late as possible up to the point where they needed to accelerate at the exit of a corner.
 
Wow, just finished watching the race, and I see there are some strong opinions here.
First off, I'm gutted for Force India, they deserved better than a double DNF. Hulk put in a strong performance for Sauber, while Kimi seemed to struggle this weekend.

As for the team orders, well...
I lost a lot of respect for Brawn, even Hamilton admitted Rosberg deserved the podium more.
For the Red Bulls, I don't really have an issue with it, as much as I dislike Vettel. They shouldn't have been having team orders so early in the race, so it was nice to see their plan backfire.
 
Just saw the race and even as somebody who supports British drivers like Lewis, the end of the race was just a farce. Lost quite a bit of respect for Ross Brawn to be honest, I'm at a loss as to why they kept Hamilton out front; they could have let the faster car of Rosberg deservedly sit on the podium and still have their 3-4 finish.

Baffling.
 
Whats astounding to me is that there is all this talk about team orders and nobody is surprised or in the least bit upset.

I thought team orders were banned?

We now have engineers deciding when the race is over, and who should finish in what position?

F1 = 80% business, 10% sport, 10% entertainment
 
1. The teams care about the constructor's championship, not the driver's championship. Teams want the drivers to sacrifice their ambition for the driver's championship in order to further the team goal. But somehow it is wrong for the drivers to do the opposite - to put the driver's championship over the constructor's championship?

2. Silverstone 2011. I've yet to see a convincing argument for how it is different. Being told to turn down the engine? Please. That's equivalent to saying mind the gap. Or see point #1 - team keeping it's eyes on the constructor's championship. Besides, it took Vettel a while to pass Webber. He had plenty of time to get his engine back up.

3. Let them race. Is that so wrong?

4. Senna vs. Prost anyone? Others have made this point upthread and the rebuttal is that Senna was way in the wrong. But there is a difference between taking out the other driver (Sazuka '89) and trying to overtake someone.

5. Worst comes to worst, RBR should set up a low drama way for the fastest racer to win, such as pitting them at different times. Of course, Webber came in at the same time as Seb specifically to avoid this.
 
Tom.
Just saw the race and even as somebody who supports British drivers like Lewis, the end of the race was just a farce. Lost quite a bit of respect for Ross Brawn to be honest, I'm at a loss as to why they kept Hamilton out front; they could have let the faster car of Rosberg deservedly sit on the podium and still have their 3-4 finish.

Baffling.
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i'm just making assumptions here but given that both drivers are out and out racers I don't think either would want to take the position with a gimme/"let him through" order, they would want to earn/lose it competitively. Mercedes didn't want them to race competitively so that was that. It's my guess anyway but it is just a guess.

I do wonder if a lot of these "issues" could be solved by banning pit to car radio, or making it one way from driver to pit. I've always thought they should go back to a time where most decisions were made by the drivers and not the teams. The only they they should be deciding is when drivers should pit and that can be done with pit boards.
 
Earth
Whats astounding to me is that there is all this talk about team orders and nobody is surprised or in the least bit upset.

I thought team orders were banned?

We now have engineers deciding when the race is over, and who should finish in what position?

F1 = 80% business, 10% sport, 10% entertainment
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Team orders aren't banned...and I hardly see this a team orders in the sense of "driver b, pull over so driver a can pass". Also are you new to F1? Engineers calling shots in the biggest engineered sport has been going on for decades now. Newey/Horner, told Mark and Vettel to run lean engine maps due to no reason needed to race, and bring in a points haul as a team first, driver second and the same was said to Nico and Lewis. Brawn did it for different reasons, which was fuel that both were quite low on, and Horner was worried his drivers would burn out their tires
 
LancerEvo7
They ended the ban after Hockenheim '10.
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Let me guess, the realized it was fruitless to try and ban it as teams just became more sneaky and less obvious

LMSCorvetteGT2
Team orders aren't banned...and I hardly see this a team orders in the sense of "driver b, pull over so driver a can pass". Also are you new to F1? Engineers calling shots in the biggest engineered sport has been going on for decades now. Newey/Horner, told Mark and Vettel to run lean engine maps due to no reason needed to race, and bring in a points haul as a team first, driver second and the same was said to Nico and Lewis. Brawn did it for different reasons, which was fuel that both were quite low on, and Horner was worried his drivers would burn out their tires
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Wow, F1 fans really see nothing wrong with happened today. No, Im not new to F1, but dont follow it that much because of stunts like today.

Can you imagine Nike telling Tiger Woods and Rory McIllroy to stop competing with each other for the lead at the end of the tournament so they dont make a mistake and let 3rd back into it? And then fans start hating on Tiger Woods for standing up against the "business" side of the sport and actually competing and ending up winning? Its so disgusting to me it just blows my mind. F1 is pretty much dead to me
 
Just finished watching the tape. Wow. Chippiest race in years. You know the world's gone upside down when Kimi's mad and Alonso's chuckling via Twitter about someone else's team-orders controversy.

Winners: Bernie, SkySports, the Beeb, Fleet Street and the fans.

Losers: Those who combine Hamilton fan-boyism with Vettel hate. So much cognitive dissonance for them now.

Re Vettel passing Webber, it was well-executed on track and now we can truly say he's on the same level, for better and for worse, as the last three triple WDCs, Prost, Senna and Schumacher, all ruthless c---- in their day. If you think any of the old-timers, especially Senna, would have honored hold-position orders had they been in Seb's shoes, well, you weren't there back then or just weren't paying attention if you were.

Now Horner's talking about behind-closed-doors discipline. That won't work. If he wants to make the point in a way that sticks (at least until contract time), the only thing that'll do it will be to put Buemi in the car in China. Otherwise, it's Seb's team and Horner just works there.

Re Hamilton and Rosberg, Hamilton was clearly gifted the podium. At least he admitted as much.

Only two guys in the top 10 who can hold their heads high are Rosberg and Grosjean. Though I imagine Rosberg isn't feeling that way. One could argue that Massa should be in this group as well, but he should have been farther up the road than 5th.

Clown of the day award is shared between the designer of Force India's wheel nuts and the Ferrari "brain" trust that left Alonso on the track with a broken wing. The latter can consider themselves lucky the race was at a Tilke-drome instead of someplace like Monaco where such stupidity can have serious consequences.

We saw more of the dicing amongst the back-markers than usual and it was highly entertaining. Up the field, Bottas and Bianchi did their reps no harm at all. Maldonado, however, has regressed.
 

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