2014 engines: inline-fours out, turbo-charged V6 engines in

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by prisonermonkeys, Sep 4, 2010.

  1. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

    Messages:
    33,155
    Location:
    Peru
  2. Ardius

    Ardius

    Messages:
    10,373
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    All sounds good to me, as long as they allow development in some areas, its all good. I really would like to see them re-open engine regulations, and grounds effects should help the aerodynamic wake issues.
    Not that interested in KERS really, but its there anyway.
     
  3. Alex.

    Alex. Premium

    Messages:
    8,833
    Location:
    England
    I'm sorry but 650bhp is not enough. LMP1's are now going to be flying ahead in the power department. GP2 won't be far behind either. They want to decrease the power progressively as the research gains the cars more downforce overall slowing them down. F1 is not about slowing the cars down it's about going as fast as possible, and I think they can easily afford to let them go faster without jeapordising safety. I hope they sound better too, the V8 sound sucks compared to the V10 and 12.
     
  4. daan

    daan Moderator

    Messages:
    32,953
    Location:
    Scotland
    Read my sig.

    These regs will just produce a F3 type procession with not enough power and too much downforce.
     
  5. Louie_Schumii

    Louie_Schumii

    Messages:
    1,406
    Location:
    Philippines

    +1

    The piston engine running on unleaded petrol must be more or less on the limit of its capabilities.
     
  6. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

    Messages:
    33,155
    Location:
    Peru
    I think it's 650bhp before turbos and KERS.
     
  7. astrosdude91

    astrosdude91

    Messages:
    4,579
    Location:
    United States
    Ground effects?

    [​IMG]

    Cool! I'm all for it! It would be good for the sport!:p
     
  8. Stevisiov

    Stevisiov Premium

    Messages:
    5,603
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It's not going to be before Turbos. That would be crazy. A 1.6 litre inline 4 with 650hp pre-turbo? You could easily be talking well in excess of 1000hp with figures like that.

    More likely, It is including Turbos, but not including the KERS boost, which will likely be around 150hp boost.
     
  9. Lizard

    Lizard Premium

    Messages:
    15,966
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I dont like the ideas as 650BHP is too little and I believe ground effect was banned because it was dangerous when the ground was not flat.
     
  10. Alex.

    Alex. Premium

    Messages:
    8,833
    Location:
    England
    It's unlikely to be measured before turbos I've not known that to be done before. No doubt the boost will be comparable to that of a Mercedes A-class diesel too. I think it will be 650BHP then with about 100BHP for kers. It's still very disappointing, wasn't the '04 Honda putting out 1080BHP at Suzuka or something ridiculous? I seem to remember the turbo cars of 1985 putting out obscene amounts of power well over 1100 BHP. They've gone completely the wrong way. Reduce downforce, increase power.

    Daan, Gilles knew what he was talking about, he'd be turning in his grave if he saw the new regulations.
     
  11. Akmuq

    Akmuq

    Messages:
    12,426
    Location:
    Ireland
    Sorry, but what are ground effects?
     
  12. red7

    red7

    Messages:
    475
    Hmm, I'd guess that any forced induction would be part of the air-fuel mixture and hence fuel-flow rate. KERS on the other could add Kw of electric or kinetic power independent of internal combustion, perhaps enough to push max combined output to over 700hp. Also utilizing normally wasted braking and exhaust energy to power a car would bolster mileage resulting in smaller fuel cells and better power/weight ratios:O Meanwhile it's about time F1 leads the way in efficient and cleaner use of energy. This is where the car industry is going and so far Le Mans and it's various series have shown the way. I'm intrigued by these proposals.:tup:
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2010
  13. Lizard

    Lizard Premium

    Messages:
    15,966
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    For a complete answer read Adrian Newies thesis on it :lol:
    For a simple answer it stopped air from getting under the car and increased downforce.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2012
  14. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

    Messages:
    33,155
    Location:
    Peru
    Very cool aerodynamics; they're pretty much the Holy Grail of aerodynamics. Downforce and drag are opposing forces; ground effects seek cancel out the drag whilst allowing for phenomenal downforce. It was pioneered in the 1980s; basically, the underside of the car is shaped like a wing. As air passes underneath the car, it reduces the air pressure. This means that the higher air pressure above the car pushes downwards, creating natural downforce. The end result is that the car is literally sucked closer to the road surface, allowing it to go faster because of the increase in grip. Perhaps the most infamous variant on this was the Brabham "fan car", which places a massive fan at the rear of the car to suck even more air out from underneath the car. It is hoped that ground effects will negate the messy wake that bounces off the rear wings, allowing cars to travel closer together.
     
  15. Akmuq

    Akmuq

    Messages:
    12,426
    Location:
    Ireland
    Cool, thanks for that, we will have more cornering speeds. 2013 is the year the bigger wheels are coming as well, I think.
    I loved the brabham fan car. It was like the Chapperal 2J but stuck out more.
     
  16. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

    Messages:
    33,155
    Location:
    Peru
    Well, they're talking about an increase to 15" or even 18" wheels. Personally, I reckon they should go in for steel brakes while they're at it.
     
  17. Lizard

    Lizard Premium

    Messages:
    15,966
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    No drum brakes that would test a drivers skills:lol:
     
  18. Akmuq

    Akmuq

    Messages:
    12,426
    Location:
    Ireland
    How about Toyota make all the brakes and the drivers have to figure how to stop themselves.
     
  19. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

    Messages:
    33,155
    Location:
    Peru
    Mark Webber will no doubt use the back of Heikki Kovalainen's car.
     
  20. Lizard

    Lizard Premium

    Messages:
    15,966
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Vettel will use anyones car.
     
  21. Akmuq

    Akmuq

    Messages:
    12,426
    Location:
    Ireland
    Sauber will use a solid wall or an engine failure.
     
  22. Lizard

    Lizard Premium

    Messages:
    15,966
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Renault will eather make the wheels fall off or deliberately crash.
    Hispania will conveniently go bust.
     
  23. Akmuq

    Akmuq

    Messages:
    12,426
    Location:
    Ireland
    Virgin will run out of fuel or forget to start the car.
     
  24. Reims_

    Reims_ (Banned)

    Messages:
    319
    Take me back to 70's style of F1 please.




    Warning: Fatal accident(s) contained in video. Also, Lella Lombardi competed in this era.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2010
  25. Akmuq

    Akmuq

    Messages:
    12,426
    Location:
    Ireland
    I disagree with regulations. I think it should just be who makes the fastest car wins. It would be 2004 spec engines with 2010 aero.
     
  26. -Fred-

    -Fred- Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    23,062
    Location:
    Canada
    But then Ferrari will run away with it, because they have the most money.
     
  27. Lizard

    Lizard Premium

    Messages:
    15,966
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Yes i think rules should be scrapped and as long as its safe build whatever you want.
     
  28. Alex.

    Alex. Premium

    Messages:
    8,833
    Location:
    England
    More downforce and the drivers will black out in high speed corners.
     
  29. Neal

    Neal Premium

    Messages:
    7,727
    It's a good idea bringing back turbos although they shouldn't restrict them to 1.6L 4 cylinder engines, plucking numbers out the air I would suggest 2.5L 6 cylinder. The high performance NA engine will become rarer and rarer on the road as stricter emission regulations means turbos become the best way of having a high performance engine within the regs. Reintroducing this to F1 will keep it relevant with current road cars giving the manufacturers a link to the track.

    Ground effect is definitely a bad idea. Low aero grip, medium mechanical grip and high power will give much more interesting racing so increasing downforce will just turn it into a procession as Daan has already said.

    I know F1 is meant to be the pinnacle of motor sport but it also needs to be interesting to watch so the regs needs to promote that.
     
  30. Prince.M5

    Prince.M5

    Messages:
    5,160
    Location:
    Malaysia
    It doesn't matter.. 650HP of engine power is enough considering the car will be lighter and is not comparable with the LMP cars. Although I think it could be a tad slower than Formula Renault or GP2 but naaah... It's all years to come and now it's all just potato speculations.

    So far, I think it's going into a good direction but I just don't know much of ground effect... KERS isn't really my favourite but rules are rules and it's going to be there in all those cars.