2014 GTP 24 HEURES DU MANS [13:00 UTC 12 JULY]

Discussion in 'GTP Sportscar Series Archive' started by Player 1, May 29, 2014.

  1. AJ

    AJ Premium

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    Post Event Update #3

    Provisional Results

    We are now almost there, they will be published tonight.


    DC Lap Compensation

    I have considered this issue carefully, and slept on it, to make sure what I come up with is as fair as possible. Use of any data other than Stint Photos (e.g. a live stream) would constitute an unfair advantage, as it may not be available for all.

    A lot of teams experienced this issue to different degrees, I know it can be heartbreaking and extreamly stressful, which is the entire reason for this system of running endurance events. Therefore;

    For each period of unaccounted time, 1 Lap will be compensated for the first full 15 minutes, subsequently an additional lap will be added every 110% of that driver's fastest recorded lap time, up to a maximum of 60 minutes.


    Logic - This is the minimum distance that could be covered by a driver during this time who has not DCed. In effect the DC car has experienced a failure and is limping back to the pits (15mins) for any time longer than this it is still at the side of the track tying to get it going again.


    Penalties for cars conducting driver changes whilst not in the Pits

    We had a few instances of cars finishing their stints on track rather than in the pits.

    There have also been reports of cars warping back to the pits after having incurred damage, instead of limping back around by either slow careful driving or use of autopilot (pause button).

    This is unacceptable, offers a huge advantage, and is not in keeping with the spirit of the event.

    Cars stopped on track will be awarded the remained of their current lap. However a 15 minute (4 Laps for LM GT-P cars) penalty will be added to the next stint. This is a net penalty of 3 Laps. No additional punitive penalty will be added for this event.

    Logic - Again, in effect the car has experienced a failure and is limping back to the pits (15mins). Time is taken off the next stint and it would not be able to start until the car has returned to the pits.

    [Edit - lap compensation draft text]
    [Edit - further clarification]
    [Edit - balme fatigue, copy & pasted the draft regulation]​
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014
  2. micantony

    micantony

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    Maybe that should've been decided before the race? You Think? Where's the FIA :lol: (i have no idea if any of these penalties will affect my team or not, I just know how serious we all are sometimes around here)
    Seriously though, it's having to make decisions like that is why i don't want to be a race organizer and/or Steward. Cheers for your efforts AJ :cheers: and all you have to deal with :p


    No matter the results, and i think i speak for all of the Turtle Racing League Team here, we really enjoyed the race and the competition tremendously :tup:
    We are honored to have been invited and allowed to race with such great teams.
     
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  3. Pluxtheduck

    Pluxtheduck

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    I am sorry what?!

    PM to be sent
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014
  4. Phouchg

    Phouchg

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    And here we go again :p bring out the popcorn.

    I do agree with the decision however. Sounds very much like the original rules except that you've added that the disconnecting team actually get some laps anyway. Which feels like a good decision as it's pretty tough to lose a full stint and this provides a band aid :)
     
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  5. AJ

    AJ Premium

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    @Pluxtheduck - I was writing this as a PM, but I think its actually applicable to everyone.

    The rules have been quite clear on how the laps would be recorded. They are designed so that if you DC, you will never lose more than a stint, and can get back into the race very quickly. It sounds like you have experienced the worst case scenario, and I feel for you and your team, 7/12 teams experienced DCs, you are not alone.

    No compensation of laps was promised before the race, as I was unsure of how bad it would be, if people were DCing all the time it could have been fascicle. Fortunately although it did happen to nearly everyone, it didn't happen too many times and not to too many at once, and the lobby itself did not go down for 23 hours 50 minutes, I think we should all be applauding that.

    As I will repeat in my report, I learnt a lot from running this event. Some areas were great, and some areas there is room for improvement, and I think I am quite clear on where those areas are and how to do so.
     
  6. AJ

    AJ Premium

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    :ouch:Right, 3rd time lucky, I've put the right text in the post now.

    I blame fatigue, many apologies. It should make sense now, the further into the stint you DC, the more compensation you receive, up to the point where you should have taken a photo in the time that has elapsed.
     
  7. AJ

    AJ Premium

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    Results Status


    1 - Provisional Classification
    2 - Provisional Classification by Driver

    3 - Provisional Classification by Fastest Lap
    4 - Provisional Classification by Driver Fastest Lap
    5 - Provisional Classification by Team Stint Chart
    6 - Leader Sequence
    7 - Fastest Lap Sequence
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014
  8. miata13B

    miata13B

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    Not clean but here it is...

    20140713_051147.jpg
     
  9. GTP_Nail

    GTP_Nail Premium

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    During the 77 laps I drove I saw only one car limp back to the pits and that was AJ who actually texted a warning...nicely done. Sadly he wasn't in our class. :lol:I never hit anything...maybe because the added realism of having to limp around to the pits put a little lift in the throttle.:dopey:
     
  10. TDZdave

    TDZdave

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    Sadly the timing screen is very inaccurate also, I tried to go back through it and it would reset or just give faulty information, we witnessed it during the race also,

    Though I do feel that the penalty for disconnecting is far greater then a driver swap happening "illegally", or an "illegal" attempt at repairing damage, or the possibility that the regulations were never checked on the vehicles regularly thus allowing drivers whom did DC or swap in or out the ability to give their vehicles more bhp and in some cases the ability to reduce weight, but for me this isn't an issue, the cars we were racing always achieved the same top end speed and similar mid corner speeds throughout the event, so a big thank you to Turtle and Snail racing teams for your honesty there,

    The biggest problem I had with the race was people who didn't exit the race to fix their damage but the ones who would use the pause menu to drive their car home for them and seem to leave it somewhat unattended, this caused several incidents throughout those periods in time, because a car that is left like that is somewhat unpredictable, and will always lead to an incident, I do recall on specific incident that involved or HSV, REST's GTR, the little black Lotus and a Toyota TS030 in the entry to the Porsche Curves, whilst the driver of the vehicle did notify the entire field of his problem, the fact is that vehicle wasn't controlled by the driver thus even though it was going slow it didn't move off line and out of the way, it instead jumped 3 lines of traffic to the racing line and took out 3 competitors reasonably innocently, That will most likely go without penalty yet teams seem to be getting penalties through their lap count due to an unstable connection, which, given the race started with a mass DC is unlikely to be their own, whilst I am ok with the pause menu being used to get the car home, it does need to be attended in the instance of an approaching vehicle, thus making sure the slow car will not be impeding the faster car,

    In the case of M4R, that is especially wrong, specially with the car already in the pits prior to the DC, and during the Skype chat it was accepted by all teams that his stint had been completed, particularly by GORE whom have more to gain from the result not being classified then anyone else,
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014
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  11. miata13B

    miata13B

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    I had a an occurrence with a "paused driver" during the 18th or 19th hour that I recall. Coming down the straight after the Mulsanne corner at about 130 mph a car was driving dead center on the straight going real slow as in the "paused" stage. I recall reading in the GTP OLR that one must pull off the race line if they ever go into the "paused state". I might be wrong on that, might be another series that I did that in.

    Regardless after a diaper filling pass at minimum twice the speed the injured car was going I barely managed not to hit it without losing control by making a sudden correction nor placing a tire on the grass. Unfortunately there is no real way to police this action nor penalize for it which sucks, but that was racing at that given point in time. Hindsight I am happy that person did not do a exit to pit maneuver but a heads up through online chat would have been nice.

    Towards the end of the race I sent a message stating in the Porsche Curves that I had major engine damage along with being slow. The car was extremely hard to handle so the minimal came in handy when I saw cars coming behind at pace. I just stopped off racing line off track to let them by then continued to the pits. Everyone I know wants to win this race that entered. I feel that everyone that entered is also a legitimate believer in proper race etiquette. People do make mistakes and on this side of the race after being up 22 hours of the 24, actually 24 of 26 hours if you count before the beginning of the race; conscious thinking with proper reasoning takes the back burner at certain points.

    I want to emphasize that because after the debilitating accident it took a second to register in my head that I had to make it back to the pits. Once it registered, I immediately pulled off to send that message. It would have been a no brained early or midway into the race, but the sheer fatigue took its toll. It is represented in the final 2 hours I ran to the end of the race.

    When @AJ messaged me to invite me into this race I knew I wanted to run it. I did not have my team in place but knew it had to be done. Obviously I wanted a win, but more important I wanted to know I had a team with motivation to finish this race. Although I do not speak for @euclid58, @Nail-27, and @gtp_Tenderly; I feel they will agree with this statement. We raced out of sheer excitement of the experience, competition and ultimately out of proving to ourselves as a team we can conquer 24 hours together relying on each other. :-)

    Once again, I want to thank all of those involved making this experience happen and next year we will make it a better experience for all of us if we choose to work together to iron out all the misfortunes each team encountered with this running of the 24 Heures du Man.
     
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  12. TDZdave

    TDZdave

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    Yes I remember, you did the right thing, like I said, I am ok with the pause menu rescue, but the car must be attended,

    Agreed totally mate, our team have done 3 24 hour races together, we know what it takes to win one as we have done so, this was our first multiclass 24 and we enjoyed it thoroughly, We have gone back through the cars to try work out why the Supra spanked us etc, and we will use these new findings for our car in the next LM24, we continue to learn about things during the race, and we remember them moving forward, and try to build on fixing our weaknesses and improving our strengths,

    We will be back for the next GTP LM24, and hopefully there is a Spa 24 Multi class race at some point in the future as we will be there for that too,

    Whilst I cannot say that there would have been less fun to be had doing the profile swap teams as most of the field did, I must stress that getting a team together to run in the same house is the ultimate way to do it,
     
  13. micantony

    micantony

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    Would you like to have bionics wonderful tune for the supra? He did a really good job putting it together. Almost minimum downforce, but still stable.

    For me personally, i'm just glad it didn't rain :cool: Bionic and Hector are such awesome drivers, i'm sure they would have been fine in the wet though.


    I have to say, being in the middle class of the multiclass race was a whole lot of fun. There were generally always cars around to either pass or to get passed by. Not sure which Turtle chose our class, but a big thanks goes out to them. And it was very nice to race with a lot of you guys again. It's been a while :cheers:

    I found being on a network team to be loads of fun. The intensity of the driver change was still there, and it certainly allowed a lot of us to race who couldn't otherwise have participated. We may have lost a lot of time doing the driver swaps over 24 hours as it took so long to load the room, but on the positive side, we also got to sleep in our own house and bed :lol:
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014
  14. TDZdave

    TDZdave

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    hahahaha, seeing that you could at minimum put 150/300 downforce on that car was enough to see why it pulled away when we drafted it, I needed to get a super clean exit to think about hanging with that car in a draft, but hey, I did the 3.46.8...... hahahahaha, and in addition, that entire lap was legal except for the porsche curves, where I chose to go two wheel powersliding using the marshal cubby hole on exit for optimum speed hahahaha,
     
  15. BionicDerp

    BionicDerp

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    Hector and I were running 200/300 so the tire wear wouldn't affect us as much. We'd set up the engine to put out the most power/torque early in its range and an open diff (13 accel) to prevent sliding on corner exits. I was running in the 5K - 6K rpm range. Had almost 600 ft-lbs, so the low revs didn't slow us down. Could also get 13 laps per tank that way.
     
  16. micantony

    micantony

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    Yeah, that HSV was so smooth when i was checking it out to compare the cars. I loved taking it through the Porsche curves. Such a nice car. I can't believe Bionicderp let you get the fast lap though! :lol: :p
     
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  17. BionicDerp

    BionicDerp

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    Was just two tenths. :p
     
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  18. dangerzone641

    dangerzone641

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    I knew that team snail were behind FRT and TRL, but I didn't think we were 15 laps behind?!?!? Am I missing something?
     
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  19. GTP_Nail

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    Like wise the BMW FORTY laps behind the Lotus. Personally it passed me twice in 77 laps...and was the Least fast of our crew. NFW.
     
  20. weescotman

    weescotman

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    Now some of this wouldn't be happening if the restarts were done properly, not just jump on the track whilst other teams are trying to get in. Why wasn't everyone taken round on another parade lap? A delayed start would have suited everyone, not say go when half the cars are half way towards the second chicane.
     
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  21. TDZdave

    TDZdave

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    I enjoyed the Porsche curves so much I did the remainder of the laps as fast as I could to get back there to do final 2 corners of that complex, I used the marshals cubby hole hole quite a few time, not sure if it was the sensation of speed or the fact I had WIDFO terrified I was going to total the car every lap through that corner,


    Yeah I did some test laps in the Supra after, It was only 10-13kph faster in a straight line, we ran 215/377 with the down force, we didnt run the turbo either, so that could be part of the reason we were down on the straights,

    Sadly your first driver didn't fair so well, I think we passed your first driver 4-6 times in the opening hour,
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014
  22. BionicDerp

    BionicDerp

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    @TDZdave

    I checked last night, and the Supra was hitting max torque at 4800 rpm (570 ft-lbs) and max hp at 5800 rpm. V-Max was close to 9000, so we saved a lot of fuel.
     
  23. LordZ1978

    LordZ1978

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    AJ sorry to correct you Restolho Team best time was 3.50.978 and not 4.50.987 as show the Provisional Classification
     
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  24. TDZdave

    TDZdave

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    Yeah we could do 13 laps on fuel too, but the balance between time lost filling and time lost doing the laps wasn't worth it, I had discovered previously in testing that 11 lap stints were the optimum, but upon reflection the grief we had sometimes doing the 11th lap with spins and poor traction etc I think 10 lap stints would be more appropriate,
     
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  25. BionicDerp

    BionicDerp

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    Our fronts were 7's and the rears were 8 or 9's depending on eager we were out of corners. The car had more turn in under acceleration, so flooring it out of corners made the car easier to drive. Could run within a second of fresh tires and only because of understeer.
     
  26. micantony

    micantony

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    :lol::lol::lol:



    7's on the front??? speak for yourself stud-man. I tore my fronts up going through the Porsche Curves :dopey:. I think my front left was at 4 after 12 laps.
     
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  27. BionicDerp

    BionicDerp

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    ...Wow. I pretty much never even turned the tire display red through there.
     
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  28. TDZdave

    TDZdave

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    yeah we had great tire wear, if anything this race has proven that when you look through GTP at all the Super GT specifications they are all the same power and weight,

    mind you I probably should have practiced given I knocked 4 seconds off the pole time..........
     
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  29. AJ

    AJ Premium

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    Post Event Update #4

    Lap Compensation & Penalties Update

    I've been having a conversation with @GTP_ADE , and he raise a valid point. The 15 minute lap time is an estimate. It really should be an exact figure.

    I'm jumping online in a few minutes to do a full auto drive/pause button lap (from the 2nd Ford Chicane to Pit Entry), see what we find.




    But you did. You suffered an unexpected technical fault whilst taking part in a (virtual) motorsport event. Technical/mechanical failures are an every day occurrence in motorsport, and DCing is Online Motorsport's #1 technical failure.

    Had [insert team/driver of your choice here] not not suffered from [insert technical problem of your choice here], then they would have...

    The compensation system/forumla is designed approximate a DC, with a crash or car failure, followed by a limp back to the pits, a worst case scenario. However it also takes into consideration laps that would have been completed if the DC occurs deep into a stint, by compensation additional laps at a rate of 1 per every 110% of that driver's best lap time, to the lowest integer.

    In Dowlin's case this is (15m=1)+(04:26.980/15m=3)=4


    Here's an example;

    - Car 1 & Car 2 are side be side starting a lap.

    - Car 1 DCs.

    - Car 2 (independently or otherwise)(through his own fault or otherwise) sustains heavy damage.

    - Car 2 either drivers very slowly, or cannot and uses the pause menu to get back to the pits, it takes 15 minutes.

    - A DC is being treated as the car (independently or otherwise)(through his own fault or otherwise) sustaining heavy damage.

    - Therefore Car 2 takes 15 minutes to get back to the pits.

    - The compensation equation is then used to estimate the number of laps completed before the lap of the DC.
     
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  30. TDZdave

    TDZdave

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    Will this change the result?