2014 Gulf Air Bahrain Grand Prix

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mister dog
Also the punishment of Ricciardo is quite harsh, got penalized enough in Sepang with the faulty pit stop and the 10 second penalty, to not have this race jeopardized also with a 10 place grid penalty IMO.
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It is harsh for a reason, no body wants a loose tyre going through the pits with large amounts of people to hit.
 
sems4arsenal
It is harsh for a reason, no body wants a loose tyre going through the pits with large amounts of people to hit.
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Like what happened at the German GP last year, which is why the penalties are such as they are now.
 
The problem I see with it is that the driver is penalized very heavily for something he cannot control at all. It is also not particularly good for the sport if the fans get the feeling that results are not decided on the track but in the stewards' room.
 
pyrates
The problem I see with it is that the driver is penalized very heavily for something he cannot control at all. It is also not particularly good for the sport if the fans get the feeling that results are not decided on the track but in the stewards' room.
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How can you penalize the team then? they'll lose valuable points now.
 
pyrates
Points deduction for the constructors championship only for instance.
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What if you're Caterham and have no points? You can't give different penalties to different teams either.
 
SilverArrow
What if you're Caterham and have no points? You can't give different penalties to different teams either.
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Very true. What about the money distribution at the end of the season? You could reduce the team's share as a penalty.
 
pyrates
Very true. What about the money distribution at the end of the season? You could reduce the team's share as a penalty.
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By how much? and again for the smaller teams they'd rather take the grid penalty.
 
sems4arsenal
By how much? and again for the smaller teams they'd rather take the grid penalty.
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That I can't possibly answer. It's a penalty so tough luck but it then wouldn't matter what they rather take. It would be a great incentive to avoid unsafe releases at least.
 
pyrates
That I can't possibly answer. It's a penalty so tough luck but it then wouldn't matter what they rather take. It would be a great incentive to avoid unsafe releases at least.
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If it means you have less money to develop next years car, it ends up affecting the driver anyway, so how is it better?
 
David Coulthard summed the Mercedes situation quite nicely, “So far this is dominance as we haven’t seen for many years in Formula 1.”

Bottas sitting in 3rd (great result for him) is a full second away from pole.
 
SilverArrow
If it means you have less money to develop next years car, it ends up affecting the driver anyway, so how is it better?
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At the end of the day the grid penalty does this as well but less directly. Worse grid place means less points which means less money.
Anyway, I don't say I can come up with a perfect system. Probably nobody can. All I am saying is that it is a shame that Riccardo has two races screwed up by a mistake the team made. I'd much rather see some form of team punishment instead.
 
pyrates
The problem I see with it is that the driver is penalized very heavily for something he cannot control at all. It is also not particularly good for the sport if the fans get the feeling that results are not decided on the track but in the stewards' room.
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There is a very, very simple solution to this problem: release the cars safely.

Also it's not like this is a surprise penalty. It might be settled in the stewards' room, but the new penalty was published well in advance. It is not an obscure rule they have fallen afoul of - like when Vettel fell too far behind the safety car - so there is really no excuse.
 
prisonermonkeys
There is a very, very simple solution to this problem: release the cars safely.

Also it's not like this is a surprise penalty. It might be settled in the stewards' room, but the new penalty was published well in advance. It is not an obscure rule they have fallen afoul of - like when Vettel fell too far behind the safety car - so there is really no excuse.
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I am not arguing if they deserved the penalty. They released him unsafely, they get the penalty. No argument there. I am questioning if the penalty in this form is the best solution.
 
TenEightyOne
An unsafe release could easily kill someone. Stand outside with a trolley and get a friend to brake his car from 60mph to zero right in front of you. You may need spare pants and/or legs. The FIA are super-harsh about it because it simply cannot happen. IRBR released a car in an unsafe condition while a mechanic was still working on it.

They penalised themselves and, fortunately, didn't injure anyone in the process.
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Problem is that it shouldn't be the drivers fault, there should be a system in place that punishes the crew members and team, not just one person and a person that had no influence on it. I agree punishment should happen but it's going in the wrong area.

BHRxRacer
I think I may have woken Perez up, and cursed Hulkenberg :( I really wanted to see hulk on the podium.

@LMSCorvetteGT2 I'll reply to your post when I'm not half asleep
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Yeah that's what I said.
 
Pagey279
David Coulthard summed the Mercedes situation quite nicely, “So far this is dominance as we haven’t seen for many years in Formula 1.”

Bottas sitting in 3rd (great result for him) is a full second away from pole.
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Red Bull were doing this kind of dominance end of last season. Difference is though Red Bull might catch up Mercedes quite quickly if Renault improve their power unit enough so remains to be seen if Mercedes can hold this kind of advantage like Red Bull had over them towards the end of last season.
 
[quote="pyrates, post: 9530447, member: 246416"I am questioning if the penalty in this form is the best solution.[/quote]
Yes, they are. Unsafe releases are entirely avoidable, and put people in danger.
 
Saidur_Ali
Red Bull were doing this kind of dominance end of last season. Difference is though Red Bull might catch up Mercedes quite quickly if Renault improve their power unit enough.
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I don't know where anyone expects them to find power at, an engine map alone isn't going to get it for them.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
I don't know where anyone expects them to find power at, an engine map alone isn't going to get it for them.
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And I do believe that maps are homologated to prevent teams from using extreme versions.
 
prisonermonkeys
Yes, they are. Unsafe releases are entirely avoidable, and put people in danger.
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But it isn't the driver who is putting these people in danger but the team. The current penalty penalizes the driver more than the responsible people.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
I don't know where anyone expects them to find power at, an engine map alone isn't going to get it for them.
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Improvements to the turbo mainly and also some to the ERS should give them a good chance to fight as that is a lot of lap time performance improvement potential for Red Bull, they weren't that far of Mercedes in a track like Bahrain.
 
pyrates
But it isn't the driver who is putting these people in danger but the team. The current penalty penalizes the driver more than the responsible people.
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Using that logic, a team gets penalised more than a driver if a driver causes an avoidable accident on the circuit. After all, the team did not do anything, but they still get a penalty.

Teams score based on where a driver finishes. There is no other alternative - as has been pointed out, monetary fines, points penalties and championship losses cannot be applied evenly and fairly.
 
Saidur_Ali
Improvements to the turbo mainly and also some to the ERS should give them a good chance to fight as that is a lot of lap time performance improvement potential for Red Bull, they weren't that far of Mercedes in a track like Bahrain.
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It's not that easy, they don't manufacture their own turbo for one. The ERS may work out but whoever they are working with on the turbo unit would also need to help them improve the ERS since the turbo corresponds with it. Also they still will have the trademark Renault issue I feel which is not so great high end range/top speed.

prisonermonkeys
And I do believe that maps are homologated to prevent teams from using extreme versions.
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Exactly, hence why it's not that simple of "they just need to find more power" also they better find it quick because the engines development should be frozen soon.
 
There is no real way to penalize a team except points drop, and not all teams have points, so that wouldn't work.
As for what happened to Daniel, what was unfair was the stop-go, It is published that an unsafe release will result in a standard 10 place grid penalty, but for some reason they gave him the stop-go as well :(
Double penalty is harsh, one or the other would have done the job.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
It's not that easy, they don't manufacture their own turbo for one. The ERS may work out but whoever they are working with on the turbo unit would also need to help them improve the ERS since the turbo corresponds with it. Also they still will have the trademark Renault issue I feel which is not so great high end range/top speed.
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Renault will be doing that work on their power unit, not Red Bull.
 
prisonermonkeys
Using that logic, a team gets penalised more than a driver if a driver causes an avoidable accident on the circuit. After all, the team did not do anything, but they still get a penalty.

Teams score based on where a driver finishes. There is no other alternative - as has been pointed out, monetary fines, points penalties and championship losses cannot be applied evenly and fairly.
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I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think monetary fines are completely unfeasible and I think the current system of the driver being penalized for two races is too much.
 
Saidur_Ali
Renault will be doing that work on their power unit, not Red Bull.
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Obviously you didn't understand my comment, because no where do I imply or allude that RBR would have influence or the mechanical and technical know how to fabricate and produced engines and then tune them.
 
Saidur_Ali
Renault will be doing that work on their power unit, not Red Bull.
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You realize they are not allowed to work on the power unit to increase performance, only reliability?
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Obviously you didn't understand my comment, because no where do I imply or allude that RBR would have influence or the mechanical and technical know how to fabricate and produced engines and then tune them.
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Well it seems you were implying that ERS is Red Bull's own system and you don't know who their power unit supplier is.
 
Saidur_Ali
Well it seems you were implying that ERS is Red Bull's own system and you don't know who their power unit supplier is.
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No not at all. I was talking about Renault and even have it in the post, not at all talking about Red Bull
 
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