2014 Gulf Air Bahrain Grand Prix

[mister dog]

There is a very, very simple solution to this problem: release the cars safely.

Also it's not like this is a surprise penalty. It might be settled in the stewards' room, but the new penalty was published well in advance. It is not an obscure rule they have fallen afoul of - like when Vettel fell too far behind the safety car - so there is really no excuse.

The amount of stress that goes into getting one of these pitstops perfect is quite high for all the people involved. Only one person should slip up and incidents like these can happen, and they did to one of the best trained pitstop crews out there nowadays.

It is unsafe yes; but it can happen and i think punishing once by handicapping the pilot's race with a 10 second stop n go is enough, seeing the amount of time that was lost with the incident itself already.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

You realize they are not allowed to work on the power unit to increase performance, only reliability?

There is a lot of room to improve in the regulations especially for 2014. 2015 there is only 8% of Power Unit homologated so still a lot of improvement to be done then. Remains to be seen who has got the best power unit.

No not at all. I was talking about Renault and even have it in the post, not at all talking about Red Bull

You mention Renault like it is a separate thing to it all as you think it is a characteristic of their engines, why mention the word "whoever" related to other components.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Williams on the podium, I'm calling it.

Hell yeah!

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You mention Renault like it is a separate thing to it all as you think it is a characteristic of their engines, why mention the word "whoever" related to other components.

What the heck are you talking about? Let me clarify it for you. The turbo size is set, the turbo that they developed is probably not manufactured by Renault and the design is not the issue. Every issue so far seen in a Renault running car is the electronics and cooling which is up to the teams to improve anyways.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Problem is that it shouldn't be the drivers fault, there should be a system in place that punishes the crew members and team, not just one person and a person that had no influence on it. I agree punishment should happen but it's going in the wrong area.

The driver is the embodiment of the team in the race and it's a team sport... the driver takes his car out of the slow lane in an unsafe manner and he gets penalised. Which member of the team was at fault for that car entering the race zone illegally is irrelevant, the entire team is penalised via the driver who was representing them at the time of their cumulative mistake.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The driver is the embodiment of the team in the race and it's a team sport... the driver takes his car out of the slow lane in an unsafe manner and he gets penalised. Which member of the team was at fault for that car entering the race zone illegally is irrelevant, the entire team is penalised via the driver who was representing them at the time of their cumulative mistake.

You can word it any way you want, but it seems like a simple way of punishing the team through a person who in that moment relied just as much on the team to do the right thing as the FIA. Both were let down and yet the driver has to suffer from the brain fade of his crew and the anger of the FIA far more than the rest of the team. He worked hard out there to get the car where it needed to be especially after the team failed him the gp prior so...

RBR needed to be penalized monetary wise and heavily and all teams for that matter that do stupid rule breaking moments. I'm sure hurting their pockets wont be fun. Even better how about an accumulation of points against the team that will stack up and ban them constructor points at a certain point while not harming the drivers. Or at the end of the season docking their CVC winnings. I'm sure teams would not 🤬 up then.

 

[ExigeEvan]

You can word it any way you want, but it seems like a simple way of punishing the team through a person who in that moment relied just as much on the team to do the right thing as the FIA. Both were let down and yet the driver has to suffer from the brain fade of his crew and the anger of the FIA far more than the rest of the team. He worked hard out there to get the car where it needed to be especially after the team failed him the gp prior so...

RBR needed to be penalized monetary wise and heavily and all teams for that matter that do stupid rule breaking moments. I'm sure hurting their pockets wont be fun. Even better how about an accumulation of points against the team that will stack up and ban them constructor points at a certain point while not harming the drivers. Or at the end of the season docking their CVC winnings. I'm sure teams would not 🤬 up then.

Is the driver up until 4am working hard? Does the drivers job continue 10 hours after the race has finished? Does the drivers job continue even after he crashes the car on the first lap?

It's a team sport. Individuals will always make mistakes, but the point of a team sport is that the team are punished for it. And the team suffer for it.

What you're alternatively suggesting is hilarious. To a team with so much money and resource that a fine would mean little to them. To the smaller teams it would probably mean a lot more, but not Red Bull.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Is the driver up until 4am working hard? Does the drivers job continue 10 hours after the race has finished? Does the drivers job continue even after he crashes the car on the first lap?

Because there have never been any drivers that have put more than they needed to make sure that the car does what it needs to and spends restless hours with the crew doing so? You using these knee jerk emotional questions is a bit asinine. The team has a job they know this and that doesn't change the fact that they broke is race by not doing their job and when trying to do it doing it badly. Both which ended up costing DR and the team. DR had no control of those events and if he did then he was rightly punished.

It's a team sport. Individuals will always make mistakes, but the point of a team sport is that the team are punished for it. And the team suffer for it.

I didn't realize that teams got punished for when their drive impedes or causes a wreck, I'm pretty sure the driver loses points and not the team. And even if the driver were banned from the race the team still has options to rectify the situation and still gain WCC points.

What you're alternatively suggesting is hilarious. To a team with so much money and resource that a fine would mean little to them. To the smaller teams it would probably mean a lot more, but not Red Bull.

How is it hilarious? WCC winnings is the bread and butter of this sport it's quite important no matter how much the team is already worth.

 

[Peter.]

@prisonermonkeys , how is the Australian Media reacting to Ricciardo's seemingly superior speed to Vettel so far this year? They must be having a laugh over Vettel, because I'm finding it hard not to myself.


I thought Ricciardo was supposed to be Vettel's whipping boy. Outqualifying him 2/3, and would have more points than him if not for the disqualification and pit stop error. I hope he keeps it up and really gives Vettel a run for his money in that team. I also hope that Red Bull don't intervene to save their kid.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

@prisonermonkeys , how is the Australian Media reacting to Ricciardo's seemingly superior speed to Vettel so far this year? They must be having a laugh over Vettel, because I'm finding it hard not to myself.

We don't get that much coverage, but when we do, they usually avoid comparisons with Vettel. The hosts of the actual broadcast still get carried away with talking him up, but the mainstream media seem to appreciate that Ricciardo is extremely charismatic, and I think they want to give him a bit of space, and to let him be his own character rather than Mark Webber, Part II.

 

[mister dog]

On a side note, just raced Alan Jones 80's Williams in Bahrain in F1 2013, and must say that although i'm mostly opposed to Tilke's creations i really enjoy Sakhir's layout and it's flow, there aren't any corners or sections that are not fun 👍

Nice circuit and i hope it stays on the calendar actually.

 

[SagarisGTB]

I didn't realize that teams got punished for when their drive impedes or causes a wreck, I'm pretty sure the driver loses points and not the team. And even if the driver were banned from the race the team still has options to rectify the situation and still gain WCC points.

Drivers score points for the team, not just for themselves. When a driver crashes out, the efforts of the engineers go to waste and the team doesn't earn points/a good result, just like a pit error will cost a driver his race/result. It's a two way street. The driver and the rest of the team are an inseparable combination and a penalty to one is a penalty to both.

I thought Ricciardo was supposed to be Vettel's whipping boy. Outqualifying him 2/3, and would have more points than him if not for the disqualification and pit stop error. I hope he keeps it up and really gives Vettel a run for his money in that team. I also hope that Red Bull don't intervene to save their kid.

Wow, talk about jumping to conclusions. Vettel has had issues in 2 out of 3 races and in the one he didn't have issues he easily handled Ricciardo.

Ricciardo has had a good start to the season, but don't get carried away with the exaggerated propaganda.

 

[dsgerbc]

While I'm not exactly Vettel hater, but I laughed at this more than I should have.

 

[BHRxRacer]

RE: RIC penalty being harsh

When Vettel was dominating he scored points. Nobody said only the constructor should score because the car is fast. You rise as a team, and fall as a team. It sucks for the drivers and us fans, but that's how every team sport is like.

Don't get carried away and blow it out of proportion it's a typo, and you should've easily caught it since we were talking about Hulkenberg's drives. The 2012 Sauber wasn't the one it was the 2013, quite an easy thing to typo and not catch

Also do you have proof it was actually 50% or are just doing your trademark hyperbole that I've come to know through arguing with you? Also even if you can't prove the 50%, why weren't Sauber as fast as the copy cat RBR.

I thought it was a typo on your side then I looked at my own post, and saw I actually typed 2012 correctly. So why did you even talk about 2013 when I was talking about 2012?

It's a trademark hyperbole, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. I don't keep a log of my observations or munch journalists' articles all the time to put the numbers up. It may or may not be 50%, obviously. I observe, I remember my conclusion and I post them. At the top of my head I remember the exhaust position and the sidepods. There were more. Every few races they were talking about a new RB part that's similar to Sauber.

I have to say, Daniel Riciardo is starting to show that Vettel may not be as good as some people make him out to be, not trying to take anything from Vettel, he is after all 4x World Champion, but with the best car. I can't help but feel that put in the same car of some of the other great drivers (HAM, ROS, ALO etc) they would simply outclass him.
People have said that for ages, but I always defended Vettel, but Riciardo is making it look like they were right

I said that before. Whenever the car isn't to Vettel's liking he flat out sucks. Webber blew him away every time in qualifying and the race. Flashback to early 2012, the most recent one.

It seems as if he's a programmed driver. If he likes the car, he plans and memorizes what to do to the millimeter and applies it blind on the track. He can't adapt as good as other drivers.

No it wasn't.

Ugh, the wheel to wheel racing is "better" these days because of kers, DRS and banana peel Pirelli tyres. The unpredictability, though it was helped by reliability and crashes, was much more back then.

If Hamilton wouldn't have locked up in the first corner, i bet he would have snatched pole again though.

I could do what you guys do, and say it's entirely his fault thus he doesn't deserve pole. If you look at it like that, Nico did better in qualifying than Hamilton more often than what the results suggest.

That said, Nico was on form all night long. IIRC the first hot laps they did in Q3, Nico was still faster despite Hamilton getting a massive tow on the straight at the end of teh lap.

I don't know where anyone expects them to find power at, an engine map alone isn't going to get it for them.

This may sound stupid but I think there's more to the Renault Engines than what we've seen. Caterham haven't had many problems with it, right? Coincidentally, as I found out through the weekend, Caterham have the loudest car in person. They could be the only Renault team using the full power of the force.

Perhaps RB are deliberatly turning down their engines in favour of reliability. They may get around that soon.

On a side note, just raced Alan Jones 80's Williams in Bahrain in F1 2013, and must say that although i'm mostly opposed to Tilke's creations i really enjoy Sakhir's layout and it's flow, there aren't any corners or sections that are not fun 👍

Nice circuit and i hope it stays on the calendar actually.

It bugs the **** out of me whenever I see people here and all over the internet making fun of the track. It's REALLY fun to drive on, really tricky and be it for only the last 2 seasons, it gave us race of the season nomimee. The last 2 races here were seriously better than anything I've seen Monaco put up in a long time and better than Spa last year. There.

While I'm not exactly Vettel hater, but I laughed at this more than I should have.

"prepare your anus"

 

[Dodzzz]

The talk about Ricciard's penalty is silly..
Yes it's harsh, but its the car (car no.3) that get punished 10 grid, not Ricciardo, so it's definitely punishment for the team.
Ricciardo is only a small part of that team, since when we have to separate treatment for a driver and for the other personels?

 

[Barra333]

For those talking about Ricciardo's penalty, go back to the Malaysia thread - the same argument happened there. I still think two separate penalties for the same incident is harsh (stop/go OR grid penalty, not both). Anyway. It is done now, moving on.
---

The strict homologation of everything has played straight into Mercedes'hands. There is no question that they have a far superior engine package right now, and the rules dictate that the other teams can not catch up because they arent allowed to change/upgrade stuff, unless they can mask it as a reliability improvement.
---

And, on a slightly different point about domination of a couple of drivers, with daylight third. There is a huge difference when both of the dominant drivers have the same car to when they are driving different cars.
For the most part, Hamilton and Rosberg are going to drive in formation except for the start and around pitstops, while if it was anyone else on Hamilton's (or Rosberg's) tail, then it would be much more exciting because of the potential for on track battles. Well, for the 10% of each race where they aren't doing a fuel economy run.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Drivers score points for the team, not just for themselves. When a driver crashes out, the efforts of the engineers go to waste and the team doesn't earn points/a good result, just like a pit error will cost a driver his race/result. It's a two way street. The driver and the rest of the team are an inseparable combination and a penalty to one is a penalty to both.

The team doesn't earn points? Sure they can since they have two drivers... And no one said it was a two way street, but there are things that solely a driver can do that endangers people and there are things only a crew can do that endangers people. And just like that is a two way street so should the punishment. In the end drivers are more so scoring points for themselves and trying to make some sort of legacy in the sport, despite them working for the team. And teams especially on the upper end see them as a dime a dozen so to think they're doing this and equally being hurt is naive. A penalty to one is bigger than the other, until the teams have to worry about a sole driver then sure you're point will seem highly valid. However, it is only a partial pain in the current system for the team at large.

I thought it was a typo on your side then I looked at my own post, and saw I actually typed 2012 correctly. So why did you even talk about 2013 when I was talking about 2012?

Who cares about 2012 Sauber, since Nico Hulkenberg was the talk of that moment, not Sauber F1. And thus that is why I meant the 2013 Sauber, not 2012 thus it was a typo.

It's a trademark hyperbole, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. I don't keep a log of my observations or munch journalists' articles all the time to put the numbers up. It may or may not be 50%, obviously. I observe, I remember my conclusion and I post them. At the top of my head I remember the exhaust position and the sidepods. There were more. Every few races they were talking about a new RB part that's similar to Sauber.

That's sad because I make it a habit to keep F1 articles saved just for these occasions and general reading. And the exhaust set up of the 2012 cars aren't half the car so...especially when the interruption of the design can't fully be known but guessed up or inspired. Also they were highly modified and performed better than the original Sauber version they took ideas from so...how that is 50% Sauber is beyond me. And actually to make it easy on you, you could easily go to Formula one official website and see the gp updates from 2012.

This may sound stupid but I think there's more to the Renault Engines than what we've seen. Caterham haven't had many problems with it, right? Coincidentally, as I found out through the weekend, Caterham have the loudest car in person. They could be the only Renault team using the full power of the force.

Perhaps RB are deliberatly turning down their engines in favour of reliability. They may get around that soon.

No they have had many problems with the engine. They couldn't get the car out for practice in Australia and suffered mapping issues. They didn't do too well in quali that GP either. They had an engine failure in winter testing as well. Also how do you figure they have more power since they are running the map from Renault supposedly and RBR/STR are running their own maps and electronics that conform to the engine...

They aren't turning down their engines purposely? Where did you get that from?

 

[Müle]

i had a bunch of jagermeister getting ready for the race tonight, then i find out it's on a 11 in the morning. why?

i blame europe. they should have to watch it in the morning.

 

[m8h3r]

i had a bunch of jagermeister getting ready for the race tonight, then i find out it's on a 11 in the morning. why?

i blame europe. they should have to watch it in the morning.

Don't blame Europe, I'd have preferred a race at like 9am too. Watch that, get ready, go out, now I can't do anything cause I'll be sat infront of the TV from 2-5pm.

 

[ukfan758]

Predictions for race:
1st: Hamiliton
2nd Rosberg
3rd: Bottas

• Lotus will have a retirement or two
• Ferrari will have some sort of a technical problem
• Red Bull will have a problem or retirement

 

[Peasantslayer]

RE: RIC penalty being harsh



That said, Nico was on form all night long. IIRC the first hot laps they did in Q3, Nico was still faster despite Hamilton getting a massive tow on the straight at the end of teh lap.

"but Hamilton was held up at the end of the lap."* A tow doesn't really give much of a benefit in F1, I've seen driver's who should be gaining time in the tow go absolutely nowhere, it seems to much more useful in MotoGP for example.

 

[mister dog]

Don't blame Europe, I'd have preferred a race at like 9am too. Watch that, get ready, go out, now I can't do anything cause I'll be sat infront of the TV from 2-5pm.

Sunday is holy couch day, no excuses! Besides, there's the footie also

Predictions for race:
1st: Hamiliton
2nd Rosberg
3rd: Bottas

• Lotus will have a retirement or two
• Ferrari will have some sort of a technical problem
• Red Bull will have a problem or retirement

PM me next week's lottery numbers please.

 

[m8h3r]

Sunday is holy couch day, no excuses! Besides, there's the footie also

Everton vs Arsenal could be a good game, unfortunately if it's tight into the last few minutes then I wont get to watch due to the start of F1, then I'll miss half the Liverpool game due to F1 again. Would have been so much simpler to be on in the morning.

 

[ukfan758]

Is the Bahrain race a day night transition race or full night?

 

[mister dog]

Is the Bahrain race a day night transition race or full night?

I'm thinking the first; also it was a wise decision to make it a night race as the only thing you saw around there was sand, and now it has something of an Arabic nights feel to it with the palm trees and the nice use of atmospheric lighting near the grandstands.

I guess the Sheikh wanted to attract more visitors to Bahrain, and showing one big desert on the telly isn't really the way to do it

 

[Samus]

Is the Bahrain race a day night transition race or full night?

It starts the exact same time as quali yesterday.

 

[DK]

David Coulthard summed the Mercedes situation quite nicely, “So far this is dominance as we haven’t seen for many years in Formula 1.”

Bottas sitting in 3rd (great result for him) is a full second away from pole.

I wonder if the W05 will be as dominant as the McLaren MP4/4.

 

[Samus]

With all the development freezes on the main component it's very possible.

 

[TenEightyOne]

You can word it any way you want, but it seems like a simple way of punishing the team through a person who in that moment relied just as much on the team to do the right thing as the FIA. Both were let down and yet the driver has to suffer from the brain fade of his crew and the anger of the FIA far more than the rest of the team. He worked hard out there to get the car where it needed to be especially after the team failed him the gp prior so...

RBR needed to be penalized monetary wise and heavily and all teams for that matter that do stupid rule breaking moments. I'm sure hurting their pockets wont be fun. Even better how about an accumulation of points against the team that will stack up and ban them constructor points at a certain point while not harming the drivers. Or at the end of the season docking their CVC winnings. I'm sure teams would not 🤬 up then.

I see where you're coming from - but personally I prefer on-the-spot punishments for the team (which means their driver) for certain obvious infringements. Applying a points reduction after the race for this kind of offence suddenly makes it less serious, the rule is there to prevent someone being killed on what potentially is a 70mph service road with 11 cars and 100+ soft-bodied personnel. Potentially Ricciardo could have lost the wheel on track (unlikely, but this kind of incident can lead to that) and killed a spectator or track official too.

That's why this penalty should be harsh and immediate. Arguably IRBR put themselves in that position as a team.

@Samus, there are ways around the development freeze (especially for the PUs) and I think the FIA are going to treat it quite sensitively this year in order to cement the formula next year. That's what I think IRBR are taking advantage of with Flowgate-Gate, to mention a different topic

 

[Samus]

Well we'll have to see, you can be sure Mercedes will be keeping a very close eye on any requests for change from the others.