2014 Pirelli Hungarian Grand Prix

prisonermonkeys
Also, a year ago, Vettel took heavy criticism for ignoring orders in Malaysia. But it's okay when Hamilton does it ...
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Partly due to the Schumacher-it-is that Vettel was suffering in much of the public eye at that time, I think.

Mercedes have gone on to say imply that they won't stop their drivers racing each other for the WDC in the second half of the season, they seem to have taken an ameliorative line. In my opinion that's the right one, it's the only way to give each driver something to motivate them. Either of them could easily fight team orders on track as we know from Rosberg using the extra engine mode, followed by Hamilton doing the same, Hamilton refusing to move over yesterday.

Toto Wooolllffff has earned my respect quite a bit this season, he seems a sensible guy who knows how many beans make funf and is doing the best to manage a volatile situation.

In comparison Adrian Newey was twitching with annoyance after the race and just said to Seb "we'll talk about this afterwards". Webber's displeasure was obvious and understandable but to me it was the team's reaction that was very different and which most coloured people's opinion of events. Red Bull were clearly annoyed and angry, even Horner's syrupy "yes no you know" explanation seemed loaded.

Hamilton was wrong in this case to break the team order... because it was an order. As with Vettel, I'd have done exactly the same thing. And so would Rosberg, I think.
 
prisonermonkeys
Also, a year ago, Vettel took heavy criticism for ignoring orders in Malaysia. But it's okay when Hamilton does it ...
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To be fair, I don't think Vettel considered Webber as a chief rival for the title. There is a WDC on the line for both drivers, and if the boot was on the other foot I don't think Rosberg would have slowed down and waved Hamilton through. There is obviously a touch of bias, from a lot here in favour of Hamilton (I, for one want him to win the WDC), but everyone knows what he is like and seeing the poor luck he has had in recent qualifying he decided what he wanted to do. To be a World Champion, you have to piss some people off, you don't win it by being liked by everyone, especially your team mate.
 
Jaywalker
I understand that, but did they really think that Hamilton, racing for the championship, was going to slow down for Rosberg to get ahead?
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They probably thought he would let Rosberg through, then race him to the end. Letting him through only would have given Rosberg track position until his stop - at which point, Hamilton would reclaim it.

Mind you, they were expecting Hamilton to be able to take Alonso, but his tyres went off faster than expected.
 
If Rosberg overtook Vergne and not faff around him for half dozen laps, he would have created his own gap and therefore not have to rely on the team to call team orders. Hamilton didn't take long to overtake Vergne when he came up against him.
 
prisonermonkeys
They probably thought he would let Rosberg through, then race him to the end. Letting him through only would have given Rosberg track position until his stop - at which point, Hamilton would reclaim it.

Mind you, they were expecting Hamilton to be able to take Alonso, but his tyres went off faster than expected.
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Which shows that if he had let him through & get away, he'd have caught him a lot sooner on very fresh tyres, while Hamilton's were falling away...
 
I expect for the rest of the season there will be no team orders apart from don't take each other out.
 
OK Lewis, gap to Nico 1 second, he has one more stop to make, don't hold him up
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A little later Hamilton basically agreed not to defend his position and didn't have to, Rosberg didn't get close enough to have a go at passing.
 
Exactly. Hamilton said he wouldn't slow down just to let him past. If he catches up, he'll let him through.
 
Hamilton was far enough ahead and he'd been screwed with the tyre strategy, before the race people were saying the soft and medium had similar levels of degradation but the medium was about a second a lap slower, he had plenty of brand new softs and IIRC Alonso said the medium was the worse race tyre in a post-race interview on SkySportsF1.

@prisonermonkeys The difference with this is that Hamilton wasn't willing to fight to the death just to stay/get ahead, he had a healthy gap to Rosberg.

EDIT: Villeneuve quote ""That's why Nico was complaining and whining because he knew that all he was wanting to do was to destroy Lewis' race, not to help his own. And it didn't work out." :lol:
 
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No one has mentioned that there was no penalties for the unsafe releases during the first Safety Car (Button on to Toro Rosso and Gutierrez and Perez having a little drag race!), Indeed there was no penalties at all during the race, apparently the reason why the releases went unpunished is because of the Safety Car as we have seen many times before it is complete chaos in the pit lane when the car comes out and Whiting is willing to let certain thing go in the pit lane during a Safety Car situation, I think he made a good decision yesterday not to punish anyone during that time..
 
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Just finished watching the race for the first time. The podium was not how I predicted it at all, but two safety cars and a wet start mixed up the strategy. Not completely surprised to see Ricciardo take the win. He's been on a tear lately with his performances. Definitely surprised to see Ferrari take 2nd with Alonso, and 6th with Raikkonen after he started near the back. Also surprised that Hamilton made it to 3rd after his opening lap spin, but the safety cars helped out a ton, and having the fastest car on the grid also helps some. Definitely like the battle for the lead with less than 10 laps left, and Rosberg chasing them down, even though he got shut out by Hamilton on the final lap by getting pushed wide.

Not really surprised to see Grosjean bin it during the first safety car period, although I didn't catch the exact reason for the safety car due to having to attend to things on another site at that moment, so my attention was pulled away from the TV. Saw Hulkenberg go off, but not sure why he couldn't continue on, again matters on another site to attend to. Vettel has amazing car control considering he managed to not pummel the pitwall like Perez did laps prior to that.

Drivers of the race are without a doubt, the podium finishers, and the opposite of that would be Grosjean.
 
So is Grosjean really going to get away with no penalty for binning it under yellows? Seems...insane. Crashing is the very definition of driving unsafely.
 
GTPorsche
Not really surprised to see Grosjean bin it during the first safety car period, although I didn't catch the exact reason for the safety car due to having to attend to things on another site at that moment, so my attention was pulled away from the TV.
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Ericsson had a tank-slapper at that same corner and hit the outside wall.
 
Barra333
I was just answering the part of @GTPorsche's post that I bolded. Grosjean's brain fart has been well covered over the last couple of pages.
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Ah I see, for some reason I saw it as you quoting @Imari, probably because it's right above your post, my apologies. And I know his brain fart is covered that's why I was surprised you actually said what you did, but now I know better, thanks.
 
Imari
So is Grosjean really going to get away with no penalty for binning it under yellows? Seems...insane. Crashing is the very definition of driving unsafely.
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It appears so. Strange, you'd think they'd penalize him according to Sporting Regulation number... oh, wait.
 
 
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mu22stang
It appears so. Strange, you'd think they'd penalize him according to Sporting Regulation number... oh, wait.
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You mean that there's no regulation that penalises driving unsafely behind the safety car?

I'm a little surprised at that, but I suppose maybe they should get onto writing one then.

I'm almost entirely certain that there's one that penalises driving unsafely under yellows, because that's what yellow flags mean, "caution". One is hardly being cautious if one is able to accidentally fling the car at a barrier with no help.

I was under the impression that simply having the safety car on the track triggered full course yellows anyway, so perhaps they don't need a separate rule for behind the safety car. If the track is yellow simply by virtue of the safety car being out then any safety infringements can be dealt with under the rules for yellows.


But no, I don't know the sporting regulations off by heart. I'm not that much of an anorak, I just like watching the race on Sunday sometimes. I simply assumed that there would be some sort of penalty in place for someone who crashes during a phase of the race designed to make the drivers drive safely, because that seems relatively logical to me.
 
Imari
But no, I don't know the sporting regulations off by heart. I'm not that much of an anorak, I just like watching the race on Sunday sometimes. I simply assumed that there would be some sort of penalty in place for someone who crashes during a phase of the race designed to make the drivers drive safely, because that seems relatively logical to me.
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Yeah, it's strange that Vettel got done for not maintaining a gap under the Safety Car at Hungary a few years ago, and yet this incident just slides.
 
I need to pay more attention to this forum; it would save me a lot of grief.

True story:

July 20, 2014:
Me: Aw **** I forgot to watch the German GP yesterday! That's the only one I've missed this year! I have to be absolutely sure I don't miss the next one in two weeks.

July 29, 2014:
Me: Ok, The Hungarian GP is this Sunday. I need to plan out my weekend early so I can't miss it. Let me just Google the time of the race...

...

chris-farley-rage.gif
 
Imari
You mean that there's no regulation that penalises driving unsafely behind the safety car? ...
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No, I mean, there isn't a rule for penalizing a driver based on an emotional response.

Warming the tires under a safety car in the manner GRO was when the accident occurred is commonplace, not unsafe, and not illegal. Crashing itself is not illegal. This mistake, without recurrence or the advantage of hindsight, cannot be considered unsafe driving behavior.
 
mu22stang
Warming the tires under a safety car in the manner GRO was when the accident occurred is commonplace, not unsafe, and not illegal. Crashing itself is not illegal. This mistake, without recurrence or the advantage of hindsight, cannot be considered unsafe driving behavior.
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It's commonplace, yes, although people tend to do it less in adverse conditions and be more careful about it.
In the place where he did it, at the time when he did it, it obviously WAS unsafe, because he crashed.

He's admitted himself that he dropped it because he got a wheel on the paint and spun it up.
Pretty much everyone who follows Formula 1 knows that the painted lines are slipperier than normal when they're wet.
Grosjean and every other driver knows this too.

So is it acceptable for a Formula 1 driver to be unable to control his car to avoid a known danger under yellow flags?
To me, these are the best drivers in the world. They do not "drift onto the paint accidentally" when they're not pushing it.

Either Grosjean was pushing his car to try and warm it up in a place where he should have known better that there was danger.
Or he's simply not competent to control his car. Which considering what a dog the Lotus appears to be this year, is a real possibility.

Either of those warrants a penalty, IMO. The only reason I can think of for which crashing would be acceptable under yellows would be attempting to dodge a greater danger. Trying to warm up the tyres and failing is not an excuse. Do it well away from the paint next time.

There are rules to punish failures like this to discourage repeat occurrences. Nine times out of ten, he'd probably have gotten away with it. One time out of a hundred there would have been a marshal on the wrong side of the fence getting clobbered by a runaway Grosjean.

I've got nothing against Grosjean, I think it was an honest mistake. But honest mistakes can be just as worthy of punishment as intentional misconduct.
 
Imari
It's commonplace, yes, although people tend to do it less in adverse conditions and be more careful about it.
In the place where he did it, at the time when he did it, it obviously WAS unsafe, because he crashed.

He's admitted himself that he dropped it because he got a wheel on the paint and spun it up.
Pretty much everyone who follows Formula 1 knows that the painted lines are slipperier than normal when they're wet.
Grosjean and every other driver knows this too.

So is it acceptable for a Formula 1 driver to be unable to control his car to avoid a known danger under yellow flags?
To me, these are the best drivers in the world. They do not "drift onto the paint accidentally" when they're not pushing it.

Either Grosjean was pushing his car to try and warm it up in a place where he should have known better that there was danger.
Or he's simply not competent to control his car. Which considering what a dog the Lotus appears to be this year, is a real possibility.

Either of those warrants a penalty, IMO. The only reason I can think of for which crashing would be acceptable under yellows would be attempting to dodge a greater danger. Trying to warm up the tyres and failing is not an excuse. Do it well away from the paint next time.

There are rules to punish failures like this to discourage repeat occurrences. Nine times out of ten, he'd probably have gotten away with it. One time out of a hundred there would have been a marshal on the wrong side of the fence getting clobbered by a runaway Grosjean.

I've got nothing against Grosjean, I think it was an honest mistake. But honest mistakes can be just as worthy of punishment as intentional misconduct.
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I think you have no idea what your talking about frankly.
 

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