2015 Dodge Challenger

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Top fuel dragsters run 3.5's don't they?
If not faster.


Its like the people that say 7.5 seconds to 60 is slow. Sure it is on paper. In practice you sure as hell know you are moving. I've been in a 14.2 second stock '70 Mach 1 and I sure as hell knew I was going fast.
 
I don't have to read your posts to know where I stand on this. The Challenger wasn't built to carve canyons, you do know this right? I don't even know why you're debating this. The Challenger is a muscle car, it was built to go fast in a straight line, it just so happens that it also stops very well too. Handling is good enough, but certainly not a road racing car and never was marketed as such, you do know its a 4000lbs+ car right? People know what they're buying when they buy a car like this, they're not at Road America trying to outrun up with Porsche 911's.

Then if your not willing to read my posts (or others) like I do yours and everyone else with respect, don't respond. It's great you stand on something but this is a forum, you will be challenged and people are within their capacity to do it. If you have problem with that then you might not like forums...

No it wasn't meant to carve canyons but if they want it to sell they should be trying to make it do that. Also I probably forgot more about Mopar's than you know. It stops well because they put super car brakes on it...from Brembo

How was it never marketed as a road racing car? They did built a T/A which like the Z/28 and 302 were SCCA approved cars that weren't too far from being race cars that was their point. That is why GM and Ford have redone this in a modern spec. Also what does weight have to do with anything, they could lose the weight like they did with the Mustang and Camaro to make it perform. Glad to see another conservative thinking member joining GTP like W&N.

Also the only people who know what they're buying and are okay with it are the faithful Mopar fanatics.

Do you know how fast a 10.8 second 1/4 mile is? I'm just curious. 10-15 years ago that was entirely non street legal territory. A 13 flat to the average person is 🤬 fast if you are in the car.

Yeah I do, as you saw in with ITCC last month

...this is where you should've stopped.

Why?

If not faster.


Its like the people that say 7.5 seconds to 60 is slow. Sure it is on paper. In practice you sure as hell know you are moving. I've been in a 14.2 second stock '70 Mach 1 and I sure as hell knew I was going fast.

And I was in an SRT4 pulling a 13.8 and a 13.7 and while it was fast I wouldn't say it was mind numbing like you seem to put it. I've also been in a built small black 350 late 70s Malibu doing mid to lower 12s and that was cool to. At the end of the day it's a quarter of a mile. The fun is short and not nearly as fulfilling as pulling quick laps at the local road course. Unless you're bracket racing I guess.
 
No it isnt mind numbingly fast. But you definitey know it.

I never cared for road courses. I'd rather rip to 100 on some back road :lol:
 
Exactly. Coming from someone with a LONG history of drag racing, I can tell you that 10.8's, even on drag radials is really impressive for a factory car today, especially at the price of this car. A stock Nissan GTR on drag radials can run these times also with less HP, but it has a huge advantage with the DCT and all wheel drive and it costs more. The C7 Z06 will also run low 11's or high 10's most likely on drag radials but it has a huge weight advantage over the Challenger.



yeah I ran 10.9@126 but on stock runflats and had 1/8ths good enough for low 10.8's on a stock 12 GTR

I got a good friend who is supposed to be trading up from his 2013 SRT8 to a hellcat this fall.. im looking foward to running him in the NISMO this fall.. I think 10.7's@127 out of mine should be likely so we will see if that head to head happens or not
 
And you know the great part about what you guys get to do @Organ-Donor and @MCNAGTROC is you can take them to a track and run amazing times. Having a singular purpose car isn't for that much money is a bit redundant, if all people care about is straight line speed, why not get a Challenger Drag Pak and a Dart for a daily driver.

No it isnt mind numbingly fast. But you definitey know it.

I never cared for road courses. I'd rather rip to 100 on some back road :lol:

Not really, after the first time it was fun, second time somewhat and then third and fourth time it was common place. The 12 second car on the other hand took longer to take this effect.
 
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I like cars that run quick in a straight line but can take turns too. Still, impressive numbers on the Hellcat and if straight line only is your thing then great. But for me, taking corners is the number one priority. I don't care for one trick ponies.

I agree with you. I will be a lot happier when they make a Challenger more Track Day worthy, but at least they are giving us something. I just find it annoying that everyone is complaining about it.
 
I agree with you. I will be a lot happier when they make a Challenger more Track Day worthy, but at least they are giving us something. I just find it annoying that everyone is complaining about it.
Yeah I'm not complaining, although less weight would be nice. But depending on the price it could be a great bargin for that kind of power, like the GT500 is with 662hp.
 
I agree with you. I will be a lot happier when they make a Challenger more Track Day worthy, but at least they are giving us something. I just find it annoying that everyone is complaining about it.

It would be nice for them to provide that with the Hellcat, the thing is a car like that with that power should be expected to do low 11 and high 10s with those radials. A multi purpose car I think is more important than a group that rather keep building tools that are highly reminiscent of a long gone era.

Also when you couple all the issues Dodge has had, does it really seem to be the best time to build such a premium car to try and steal sales from an already limited group of cars for an even more limited group of buyers?
 
its a pretty niche market I mean what is this thing going to come in at like 79k before mark ups? whats a new SRT8 like 45K these days?
 
its a pretty niche market I mean what is this thing going to come in at like 79k before mark ups? whats a new SRT8 like 45K these days?

Yeah 45k to 48k and if it's as bad as when the SRT8 Challenger was first released mark ups will make the thing in Viper range before we ever see the 75-80k projection. The original SRT8 was 70k for a time due to mark ups.
 
A Challenger has no business near Viper money. Same with the Z28 Camaro being the same price as the lowest trim level C7 Z06 (will prob start at around ~80k, with the top trim Z07 package right at 100k). The Shelby GT500 got it right (not counting dealer markups).
 
A Challenger has no business near Viper money. Same with the Z28 Camaro being the same price as the lowest trim level C7 Z06 (will prob start at around ~80k, with the top trim Z07 package right at 100k). The Shelby GT500 got it right (not counting dealer markups).
It helps quite a bit in your example that Ford didn't have anything to encroach on. And that they did it first.
 
It helps quite a bit in your example that Ford didn't have anything to encroach on.
All the more reason why it could of been priced higher if it was the top tier most powerful car that Ford was putting out then, no? But the price was still kept moderate.
 
When the hell are you going to be taking turns on the street at 120mph? As long as it can take corners on the street at the legal speed limits it shouldn't matter. 99% of people that like to go fast go fast in a straight line because that's what it is in most daily driving unless you are a car geek that goes to track days every week. Almost nobody except die hard car nerds gives a crap if a car can turn like a Ferrari. As long as they can blow the doors off the competition at a stoplight it doesn't matter.
 
When the hell are you going to be taking turns on the street at 120mph? As long as it can take corners on the street at the legal speed limits it shouldn't matter. 99% of people that like to go fast go fast in a straight line because that's what it is in most daily driving unless you are a car geek that goes to track days every week. Almost nobody except die hard car nerds gives a crap if a car can turn like a Ferrari. As long as they can blow the doors off the competition at a stoplight it doesn't matter.
:odd: :banghead:
 
When the hell are you going to be taking turns on the street at 120mph? As long as it can take corners on the street at the legal speed limits it shouldn't matter. 99% of people that like to go fast go fast in a straight line because that's what it is in most daily driving unless you are a car geek that goes to track days every week. Almost nobody except die hard car nerds gives a crap if a car can turn like a Ferrari. As long as they can blow the doors off the competition at a stoplight it doesn't matter.

And you're not going to be going 120 on a straight line in the streets or doing stoplight drag races. You're going to take it to the track just like you would for "turning a corner". There are plenty of idiots that do both sides of the coin on the street, just because you want to be an idiot and do one side of it doesn't mean the other is non-existent.
 
I totally agree that the other side isn't non existant, but the fact of the matter is 85% or more of what little they sell isn't going to see anything but a stop sign and a drag strip pass or two on the eekends IF that.

I understand that handling is an important aspect of a car but it's not a primary concern to be supercar like around a 90 degree corner. At least it shouldn't be.
 
When the hell are you going to be taking turns on the street at 120mph? As long as it can take corners on the street at the legal speed limits it shouldn't matter. 99% of people that like to go fast go fast in a straight line because that's what it is in most daily driving unless you are a car geek that goes to track days every week. Almost nobody except die hard car nerds gives a crap if a car can turn like a Ferrari. As long as they can blow the doors off the competition at a stoplight it doesn't matter.
'Murica!
 
I totally agree that the other side isn't non existant, but the fact of the matter is 85% or more of what little they sell isn't going to see anything but a stop sign and a drag strip pass or two on the eekends IF that.

I understand that handling is an important aspect of a car but it's not a primary concern to be supercar like around a 90 degree corner. At least it shouldn't be.

With 707hp I would hope like hell it can take a turn and not have me wheel it around corner at 5mph like some promod dragster getting done with a run. There is a lot more than just going around a corner when it comes to concerns of good suspension attributes. For example you want to be an egg head one night in the car and due to its lack of a good suspension like its counter parts you get incredible wheel hop, and then spin the car out, smashing through your favorite local Denny's and ruining all around local good guy Bill's 1 am ritual of eating scrambled eggs with blueberry waffles.

You're gonna wish you had a better set up from the factory.
 
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It will do that on stock tires. I'm willing to bet drag radials will put it in mid 10's with the 8 speed auto.

Remains to be seen. Have you seen it tested already?

With 707hp I would hope like hell it can take a turn and not have me wheel it around corner at 5mph like some promod dragster getting done with a run. There is a lot more than just going around a corner when it comes to concerns of good suspension attributes. For example you want to be an egg head one night in the car and due to its lack of a good suspension like its counter parts you get incredible wheel hop, and then spin the car out, smashing through your favorite local Denny's and ruining all around local good guy Bill's 1 am ritual of eating scrambled eggs with blueberry waffles.

You're gonna wish you had a better set up from the factory.

That's quite an exaggeration. Have you driven an SRT8 Challenger or SRT8 Charger? I owned a 2006 Charger SRT8 for 4 years, I even drove every SRT vehicle at the SRT Experience in Atlanta, I can tell you that they don't handle bad at all for 4000lb+ vehicles, its actually much better than you would expect. For big cars, there handling is more than acceptable for the majority of people. Those wanting Porsche 911 cornering, aren't buying Challengers. In 4 years, I never crashed into a Denny's.

Then if your not willing to read my posts (or others) like I do yours and everyone else with respect, don't respond. It's great you stand on something but this is a forum, you will be challenged and people are within their capacity to do it. If you have problem with that then you might not like forums...

No it wasn't meant to carve canyons but if they want it to sell they should be trying to make it do that. Also I probably forgot more about Mopar's than you know. It stops well because they put super car brakes on it...from Brembo

How was it never marketed as a road racing car? They did built a T/A which like the Z/28 and 302 were SCCA approved cars that weren't too far from being race cars that was their point. That is why GM and Ford have redone this in a modern spec. Also what does weight have to do with anything, they could lose the weight like they did with the Mustang and Camaro to make it perform. Glad to see another conservative thinking member joining GTP like W&N.

Also the only people who know what they're buying and are okay with it are the faithful Mopar fanatics.


Then don't buy one and move along to another topic. You have the audacity to tell me to stop posting yet this is a car that at least I care about.

What weight has the Camaro and Mustang lost? Since 1993, the Camaro and Mustang have gone up in weight every generation. The Camaro is about 3850lbs and the Mustang is about 3700lbs.

I don't know I even bother replying to you, you have no facts, you clearly don't know what you're talking about and you have done nothing but bad mouth this car so why the Hell are you posting in this thread? Are there not 2000 other threads on this forum that you can post in about something you actually care about?
 
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Then don't buy one and move along to another topic. You have the audacity to tell me to stop posting yet this is a car that at least I care about.

Yes I have the audacity because due to your bias, you don't want to read posts as you said in your own words you didn't have to read my post. So I told you don't respond to me then. Not to not post in general.

What weight has the Camaro and Mustang lost? Since 1993, the Camaro and Mustang have gone up in weight every generation. The Camaro is about 3850lbs and the Mustang is about 3700lbs.

Which is quite a performance difference than the 4000 lbs of the Challenger, also they've gone up in weight due to technological changes like the IRS.

I don't know I even bother replying to you, you have no facts, you clearly don't know what you're talking about and you have done nothing but bad mouth this car so why the Hell are you posting in this thread? Are there not 2000 other threads on this forum that you can post in about something you actually care about?

Because it's a forum, and there is plenty in here that aren't holding their breathe on this car, also how do I not care about something if I critique, do I need to where my mopar faithful badge on my sleeve, like you? And if you want facts or for me to show where I get information from just ask specifically. You can ask the regulars here I actually do have plenty of facts just because you don't post here frequently since joining doesn't mean in a day you've figured out how I post in threads.

That's quite an exaggeration. Have you driven an SRT8 Challenger or SRT8 Charger? I owned a 2006 Charger SRT8 for 4 years, I even drove every SRT vehicle at the SRT Experience in Atlanta, I can tell you that they don't handle bad at all for 4000lb+ vehicles, its actually much better than you would expect. For big cars, there handling is more than acceptable for the majority of people. Those wanting Porsche 911 cornering, aren't buying Challengers. In 4 years, I never crashed into a Denny's.

Well that was the point for it to be an exaggeration since @Slash was using tons of hyperbole, so I was being satirical in nature. Yes as I've said in the pasts post (that you don't read) I've driven the SRT4, test drove the SRT8 Cheeroke and SRT8 Charger, and rode in a SRT8 Magnum during a test drive. No where do I say these cars can't handle, but comparing a 260hp and 425hp cars to a 707hp car is vastly different. Though the 2012 Mustang GT that we test drove and the GT500 were considerably better in my experience than the Dodges.

Also though you may not have crashed into a Denny's you weren't driving a 700+ hp car either while driving like a complete egg head. I mean if you're going to get mad at hyperbole at least quote it right.


Oh and there is an edit button so you don't make a string of posts.
 
All the more reason why it could of been priced higher if it was the top tier most powerful car that Ford was putting out then, no?
Not really, no. Your post said that the car shouldn't be knocking on the doors of the true halo models in price and used those models as the reasoning why rather than the price itself; and used the GT500 as an example of the model positioning done right. Except the GT500 example doesn't hold much relevance to the other two as you compared them, because the GT500 was the halo model and didn't have to worry about butting in.




As far as this other part goes:
But the price was still kept moderate.
"It was the first" was also important. In 2014 here has been 8 years of increasingly powerful (and expensive and much better designed) models built off of the backs of the lesser ones (as the lesser ones have also dramatically improved). Ford couldn't have charged whatever they wanted in 2007. The first S-197 GT500 was junk for every reason people are claiming the Challenger will be (even though the current SRT-8 is a better car than that). It plowed everywhere just like its original namesake. It was almost painfully overweight. It wasn't appreciably faster in a straight line than the (considerably cheaper) SVT Cobra from a few years earlier. It wasn't uncommon for reviews of to draw particularly unkind comparisons to the sport Mustangs of the past decade (Car and Driver was particularly nasty about it). Even with its sub-45,000 price when it debuted, magazines called it overpriced for what it offered over the normal GT. If Ford had offered the 2013 GT500 (or even the 2010 GT500) in 2007, yeah. They could have probably gone completely wild with pricing. But they didn't have those superior cars then.



For the 2007 car, the price was kept "moderate" because it already constantly had complaints about its price. Those complaints have continued, even as the car has gotten dramatically better, as the price has risen faster than its competitors. The Camaro Z28 absolutely doesn't have that problem as people will happily turn out to get the highly praised best tuned version of what was always considered a very good (but very heavy) platform, just like all of the stripped out racy versions of Porsche 911s do. It remains to be seen whether the Challenger will accomplish the same feat when they were already having problems in 470 hp tune, but the fact that its supposed initial cost of entry will be "only" $28,000 less than a Dodge Viper doesn't mean much of anything. 237 more horsepower will most likely easily sway the people who would have shown interest in the car in the first place.
 
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Because its 707hp from the factory with warranty and will almost certainly be cheaper than any other car you can buy with a factory warranty with 700hp+. You may not like Chrysler but what they're offering here is pretty amazing for a factory car at its price but if the car ends up being over 100K, I take back the value of this package.

I wasn't asking about the car, I was asking about the engine.
 
I wasn't asking about the car, I was asking about the engine.

Its amazing because it exists with a factory warranty, meets much stricter gas and emission standard than non-US engines. Nothing more. Its impressive regardless if the haters want to give it any credit. I'm just happy because I remember when you were king of the streets if you owned a 1988 225hp Mustang 5.0 and now we have cars from the factory that are cleaner running, getting 707hp and still meeting emission requirements and still getting decent gas mileage, although gas mileage has never been Chrysler/Dodge's strongsuit. Who knows, in less than a decade, we might even see a 1000hp street car meeting all of those same requirements.
 
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