2015 Formula 1 United States Grand Prix
- Thread starter SVT Cobra GT
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- london
Either way Nico still looks happier than Kimi does most days haha
I must say I do like Lewis (although I also think he's a bit of a t**t) and its great that he's a triple world champion. But all its made me do is pine for Jenson to win 1 more title which given what's happening with McLaren-Honda is extremely unlikely as I prefer Jenson.
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- Hammerhead Garage
It's kind of hard to make that argument when Hamilton didn't even try to make the apex. And like I said, the move was unnecessary because he could have left Rosberg plenty of racing room and still hold the racing line into the next corner. The whole complex is designed to give an attacking driver a second chance if they can't pull off a pass through the first corner, or to give a defending driver the opportunity to fight back straight away.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
But why would he? The move was legal (by dint of the lack of contrary action) and Hamilton currently only has one opponent who he needs to mentally destroy.
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- Canada
Didn't try, or simply couldn't...it's up for interpretation. It's easy for us to watch slow motion replays and judge, but those are split second decisions. Maybe he missed the apex unintentionally, and then decided to just roll with it and block Nico. We saw in the race after that Lewis was struggling with front end grip on the Inters. Regardless, the way I understand the rules, Lewis was not obligated to turn in more at that point, so like @TenEightyOne said, why would he? Im not arguing it was a clean move, like JPM said before, "that's racing".
For arguements sake, I think if you were to put either Vettel or Alonso in Lewis's position, they'd have done the same thing....many others too. Nico might be one of those drivers who might not make that same move. He also doesn't have any WDC at this point.
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Generally speaking I think you can still make that sort of argument with turn 1 given it's so wide, and hence there's more lines to speak of than the usual two "taking the apex"/"not taking the apex" ones.
I'm pretty surprised though no one else thinks it was more a stupid mistake than deliberate move that caused this particular clash. For what it's worth, that's the view of Lewis himself............(ok, not worth that much...)
The most I could accept is, maybe Lewis was going to force Nico out wide once they got to the outside of the corner, like he's done before, but they'd banged wheels and the whole situation had broken down before it could even get that far. And the wheel banging looks to me like it was just caused by a clumsy understeering Lewis, so..............I don't know what people can really take from it.
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- Ohio
- IceManPJN
- IceMan PJN
I'm a Hamilton fan and still thought turn 1 was a jerk move, but in fairness Rosberg was a monumental douche on more than one occasion last year so I don't exactly feel bad for him.
- 534
- Jakarta
- Chiyo_Cute
I don't think 90 degrees is minimal, especially at that tight corner, he is braking and the more you turn in (while braking) the less grip you'll get (cmiiw), so that's why he looked like pushing off Nico off track but he's actually just maximizing the speed he could get by using the space available.
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- Peasantslayer
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Tired Tyres
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- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
So he's at the start, on Intermediates, which have less grip, on a damp track, which has less grip, and he was late breaking, as was Rosberg. If Rosberg had a racing brain he would have realized what was going to happen if he tried the mind bendingly stupid idea of running around the outside of another driver - and break early and take the apex. He didn't. That's on him.
As far as Hamilton's actions at the first corner. There are two possible answers.
1. An honest mistake created by more understeer that expected. His fan boys will claim this.
2. Deliberately running his teammate out to the edge of the track. His hater boys will claim this.
Newsflash mate. Only one person in the world knows the answer to that and it is not you, me or anyone else not called Mr L. Hamilton. Three times World Champion.
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- Hammerhead Garage
So the ends justify the means, do they? Hamilton's a three-time World Champion, so clearly he gets the job done. Well, I will direct your attention to a man by the name of Mr. V. Rossi, nine-times World Champion, who did something completely unjustified under the rules, but hey, he got the job done. Likewise, Mr. M. Schumacher, seven-times World Champion, who did exactly what Hamilton did and turn in on a championship rival - albeit with different results - in 1997.
Now, just the other day you were telling me that you expect me to judge drivers based on their on-track performance. I have done just that, but it's apparently not good enough for you because I seem to have come to the wrong conclusion.
And I refute the idea that only Hamilton's supporters will back him. Because I know plenty of Hamilton supporters who think he went too far. Like I said, if you want to try it in the court of public opinion, prepare to be disappointed. We already know that Hamiltom has a history of showing no respect for other competitors.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Very often those drivers who are prepared to screw over the competition are the ones who become WDC. Look at the hero-worship for Senna, for example, or the brutish Alan Jones, or indeed Rosberg Sr., all uncompromising, singular and often not-very-pleasant-people-on-race-day.
And you do absolutely need to have that grunt to be successful in any form of racing. As the saying goes, nice guys finish last.
Tired Tyres
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- Tired_Tyres
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1. I said no such thing in that post at all. You are trying to put words in my mouth.
2. Learn the difference between supporters and FAN BOYS, or is that more DELIBERATE misinterpretation?
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Edited for truth.
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I'm no Hamilton fanboy...only driver I have any preference for is Button. So I'm one of those people who is lot a Hamilton fanboy, but see no problem with his move.
He executed a perfect block pass, with Nico's assistance of course, as he walked right into the trap.
Senna vs Prost, Schumacher vs Hill, Schumacher vs Villeneve we all the exact same thing, yet Hamilton's move turned out much better than the other ones. Rosberg was able to continue, so it's not a big deal!
And yes, the ends absolutely justify the means. No one ever won a championship by ensuring every pass they made was clean, or by never blocking anyone. There's no incentive to win the WDC by being nice to everyone else.
Like has been mentioned, many of the greatest drivers all had a side to them that they would do whatever it takes to win. Lewis didn't cheat, he kept it within the rules (granted, just within), so I have no issue with his win.
After Suzuka, how does the famous Bush line not apply? "We have a saying in Texas. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me again...fool me twice, shame on...ugh....fool me once can't get fooled again!" Like I've been saying, Nico walked into that one.
I think this incedent shows the fundamental difference between Lewis and Nico. I think most of it comes down to their formative years, where Lewis had to work for everything and carve his own path, whereas Nico had everything layed out for him. I can't imagine him showing up at a karting track with poor supplies or support. So with that in mind, I don't think he ever had to go into "desperation underdog" mode, and therefor doesn't have that kind of scrab etched into his persona. It's why he gets pushed around, and why he cries on the radio when he does.
He executed a perfect block pass, with Nico's assistance of course, as he walked right into the trap.
Senna vs Prost, Schumacher vs Hill, Schumacher vs Villeneve we all the exact same thing, yet Hamilton's move turned out much better than the other ones. Rosberg was able to continue, so it's not a big deal!
And yes, the ends absolutely justify the means. No one ever won a championship by ensuring every pass they made was clean, or by never blocking anyone. There's no incentive to win the WDC by being nice to everyone else.
Like has been mentioned, many of the greatest drivers all had a side to them that they would do whatever it takes to win. Lewis didn't cheat, he kept it within the rules (granted, just within), so I have no issue with his win.
After Suzuka, how does the famous Bush line not apply? "We have a saying in Texas. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me again...fool me twice, shame on...ugh....fool me once can't get fooled again!" Like I've been saying, Nico walked into that one.
I think this incedent shows the fundamental difference between Lewis and Nico. I think most of it comes down to their formative years, where Lewis had to work for everything and carve his own path, whereas Nico had everything layed out for him. I can't imagine him showing up at a karting track with poor supplies or support. So with that in mind, I don't think he ever had to go into "desperation underdog" mode, and therefor doesn't have that kind of scrab etched into his persona. It's why he gets pushed around, and why he cries on the radio when he does.
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- Mike-ZENKAI
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Not really. If there had been a wall then Senna would have put himself and Prost into that rather than the gravel, and a runoff would have made no difference as both cars were both knackered before they got to the gravel.
Schumacher .vs. Hill, a wall might have terminated Schumacher but arguably his car was out of the race anyway, hence his turn in on Hill. Which was completely on-track.
I'll give you the Villeneuve .vs. Schumacher beaching though
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- Spurgy777
On the exit of a corner I would say it's unlikely as the aerodynamics wouldn't have much of an effect at those speeds. I would say it's more likely that he just lost traction due to it still being a bit damp. However I haven't driven an F1 car (surprising I know
), so that's an educated guess at best.
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