2015 General WEC/ELMS/AsLMS Discussion ThreadSports Cars

[MatskiMonk]

Problem is when this "new approach" is diktated by marketing more than engineering.
They had some decent ideas though expecially the aero tunnels but overdid it with FWD and tiny rear tires. That said, Nissan PR's boasted this thing everywhere showing the real intentions behind this project: a "2.0 seasonal-media-marketing-brand-awareness-campaign-full-of-nonsense-about-alleged-innovations".

Okay, so you actually have no idea about the concept of the car at all... keep working on that troll award..

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

GT3? Manufactures are getting money back of the surely. You can't sell 40 cars at 400,000 Euros a piece and not get a profit. Audi do it best!

You then have all the support staff that Audi have to send to the tracks too?

 

[Kamuifanboy]

GT3? Manufactures are getting money back of the surely. You can't sell 40 cars at 400,000 Euros a piece and not get a profit. Audi do it best!

You then have all the support staff that Audi have to send to the tracks too?

You must also remember all of the R&D money that had to be used to design the car. At the beginning the manufacturers were probably going even. Now, the cost of racing GT3 has raised significantly in the past 5 years, and there are less people available to spend money. A lot of manufacturers are not charging for staff and spare parts anymore from their "customer support" programs because some brands started doing that a few years ago and put pressure on the rest to do it to keep their customers.

I predict GT3 will be dead in 5-10 years.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

You must also remember all of the R&D money that had to be used to design the car. At the beginning the manufacturers were probably going even. Now, the cost of racing GT3 has raised significantly in the past 5 years, and there are less people available to spend money. A lot of manufacturers are not charging for staff and spare parts anymore from their "customer support" programs because some brands started doing that a few years ago and put pressure on the rest to do it to keep their customers.

I predict GT3 will be dead in 5-10 years.

Yeah it is getting rather silly, for a single round in WEC you could do a full season in BTCC.

I also know someone who does blancpain and he needs to find 750k a season and that's with getting funding from team sponsors.

 

[SK8RBOI]

You must also remember all of the R&D money that had to be used to design the car. At the beginning the manufacturers were probably going even. Now, the cost of racing GT3 has raised significantly in the past 5 years, and there are less people available to spend money. A lot of manufacturers are not charging for staff and spare parts anymore from their "customer support" programs because some brands started doing that a few years ago and put pressure on the rest to do it to keep their customers.

I predict GT3 will be dead in 5-10 years.

So say Audi sell 50 GT3 cars this year at 350K Euros eatch. Thats 17.5 millon euros! If you don't think that's enuf to upgrade a road car to a GT3 car, build the cars, support customers, and race a factory team your crasy. They can't be loosing money from this.

Do you think any company would spend millions in GT3 when you could get more attention doing other motorsports?

http://www.racer.com/international-racing/item/124113-audi-producing-more-than-50-new-r8s

 

[Furinkazen]

So say Audi sell 50 GT3 cars this year at 350K Euros eatch. Thats 17.5 millon euros! If you don't think that's enuf to upgrade a road car to a GT3 car, build the cars, support customers, and race a factory team your crasy. They can't be loosing money from this.

Do you think any company would spend millions in GT3 when you could get more attention doing other motorsports?

http://www.racer.com/international-racing/item/124113-audi-producing-more-than-50-new-r8s

It costs Audi for there program 242 million dollars or 221 million euros. 50 GT3 sales is under 10% so nothing.
http://motrolix.com/2014/11/audis-le-mans-racing-program-costs-242000000-per-year/

 

[SK8RBOI]

It costs Audi for there program 242 million dollars or 221 million euros. 50 GT3 sales is under 10% so nothing.
http://motrolix.com/2014/11/audis-le-mans-racing-program-costs-242000000-per-year/

I don't meen to be rude but I was on about the GT3 goings on. The LMP1 team is set out completely different in terms of the way money is spent.

 

[Furinkazen]

I don't meen to be rude but I was on about the GT3 goings on. The LMP1 team is set out completely different in terms of the way money is spent.

It is still Audi Sport regardless and only way I can link GT3 to WEC ELMS or AsLMS?

 

[Eva]

Audi, regardless of what discipline, is losing money hand over fist. Unless you're racing karts, that's what it is. It comes down to how important motorsport is to that company. Audi have a lot invested into it, so they'll sink as much as they reasonably can to keep going. Look at how much they flaunt Le Mans. I doubt these numbers are as new to them as they are to us.

 

[Northstar]

So say Audi sell 50 GT3 cars this year at 350K Euros eatch. Thats 17.5 millon euros! If you don't think that's enuf to upgrade a road car to a GT3 car, build the cars, support customers, and race a factory team your crasy. They can't be loosing money from this.

There's two issues with this line of thought.

First, just because the car is listed at 350K doesn't mean that's what everyone pays. I have a hard time believing a team like Phoenix Racing would be charged full price.

Secondly, just because they sell 50 this year doesn't mean they will always sell 50.

Do you think any company would spend millions in GT3 when you could get more attention doing other motorsports?

In 2016 the only major endurance race not featuring a GT3 class is Le Mans, and they are starting a support series so they will at least be there the same weekend. I would say there are very few forms of motorsports that are higher profile than GT3 currently is.

 

[Furinkazen]

I forgot to mention, teams also have to buy spare parts, hire and pay drivers, pay entry fees, repair bills....

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

So say Audi sell 50 GT3 cars this year at 350K Euros eatch. Thats 17.5 millon euros! If you don't think that's enuf to upgrade a road car to a GT3 car, build the cars, support customers, and race a factory team your crasy. They can't be loosing money from this.

Do you think any company would spend millions in GT3 when you could get more attention doing other motorsports?

http://www.racer.com/international-racing/item/124113-audi-producing-more-than-50-new-r8s

There's more to the costs than just buying the car and you don't get all that for 350k which is cheap for a GT3 car.

 

[redsoxboy80]

Obviously they are not running at full power (pretty much half) or with all four wheels powered under acceleration like they had planned. That could be 20 seconds right there. They have the speed down the straights.

I personally see this program as one of those that changes history and re-writes rules. They're not to that point yet, but when they get this thing running the way it's supposed to...........look out.

Here come the "I told you so's" in 3...2...1...

More like 👍

 

[CodeRedR51]

More like 👍

Yep, a little hard to do that when someone pulls the plug. I personally still think the car had potential when running as designed.

 

[Akmuq]

Shame about Nissan, the idea had a lot of potential, could have changed the way we thought of Prototypes eventually. I'd imagine the Renault F1 deal may have something to do with this.

More like 👍

Grow up.

 

[HKS racer]

Okay, so you actually have no idea about the concept of the car at all...

Misunderstood genius right? Well that's unfortunate but this is what Jay Leeno said, speaking directly with Zaak Eakin: "You are going to be geniuses or complete idiots" minute 2:26.



My point was the Superbowl advertising was unnecessary PR BS that put unnecessary pressure for the sake of temporary brand awareness at the cost of a long-term project credibility. Looking HOW Nissan killed it changing passwords early in the morning, just before Christams says a lot about what were the real intentions.

keep working on that troll award..

I'm aware the competition is tough, honestly I feel I don't stand a chance against you.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Nissan PR's boasted this thing everywhere showing the real intentions behind this project: a "2.0 seasonal-media-marketing-brand-awareness-campaign-full-of-nonsense-about-alleged-innovations".

That's a sitter for you then, you'll have no problem with source required?

 

[SK8RBOI]

There's two issues with this line of thought.

First, just because the car is listed at 350K doesn't mean that's what everyone pays. I have a hard time believing a team like Phoenix Racing would be charged full price.

Secondly, just because they sell 50 this year doesn't mean they will always sell 50.



In 2016 the only major endurance race not featuring a GT3 class is Le Mans, and they are starting a support series so they will at least be there the same weekend. I would say there are very few forms of motorsports that are higher profile than GT3 currently is.

If onroak can sell 10 LMP2 cars at a capped cost, support there customers and still get a profit I think Audi can as well. I'm not sure if the customer gets a driver included with the car or not tho.

 

[HKS racer]

That's a sitter for you then, you'll have no problem with source required?

There you go.

 

[TenEightyOne]

There you go.

Oh. Oh dear. You showed that they have a TV advert. Your specific claim was that;

Nissan PR's boasted this thing everywhere showing the real intentions behind this project: a "2.0 seasonal-media-marketing-brand-awareness-campaign-full-of-nonsense-about-alleged-innovations".

That's the specific claim that you made and that's what you need to provide your source for - unless you were lying.

You'll have no problem of course, it was boasted...

everywhere

 

[redsoxboy80]

Grow up.

It was vindication for dealing with a lotta bs from that guy. And totally worth it.

 

[HKS racer]

Oh. Oh dear. You showed that they have a TV advert. Your specific claim was that;



That's the specific claim that you made and that's what you need to provide your source for - unless you were lying.

Oh dear genius maybe you are conveniently forgetting this part:
"My point was the Superbowl advertising was unnecessary PR BS that put unnecessary pressure for the sake of temporary brand awareness at the cost of a long-term project credibility. Looking HOW Nissan killed it changing passwords early in the morning, just before Christams says a lot about what were the real intentions."

So we have 2 facts:

- 1 Superbowl advertising
- 2 Someone went in Indiana to change passwords early in the morning a year later.

We also have the possibilty here to discuss why and what happened over there before, in between and after these facts. We are not under Shari'a law here in GTPlanet forum as far as I know at least.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Oh dear genius maybe you are conveniently forgetting this part:
"My point was the Superbowl advertising was unnecessary PR BS that put unnecessary pressure for the sake of temporary brand awareness at the cost of a long-term project credibility. Looking HOW Nissan killed it changing passwords early in the morning, just before Christams says a lot about what were the real intentions."

Passwords? How does that back up your "everywhere" claim?

So we have 2 facts:

- 1 Superbowl advertising

Which has nothing to do with your "everywhere" claim. It shows that they had advertising. Novel, right?

- 2 Someone went in Indiana to change passwords early in the morning a year later.

Again... whut? And what does that have to do with your "everywhere" claim?

We are not under Shari'a law here in GTPlanet forum as far as I know at least.

Correct, but we all agreed to the AUP. That includes the line "You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate".

Your claim is, so far, one or more of the above until you can prove otherwise. So we're back at square one; where's your source for your claim?

 

[Furinkazen]

Passwords? How does that back up your "everywhere" claim?



Which has nothing to do with your "everywhere" claim. It shows that they had advertising. Novel, right?



Again... whut? And what does that have to do with your "everywhere" claim?



Correct, but we all agreed to the AUP. That includes the line "You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate".

Your claim is, so far, one or more of the above until you can prove otherwise. So we're back at square one; where's your source for your claim?

Ignore him, he's blatantly baiting and trolling as usual.

 

[SK8RBOI]

Passwords? How does that back up your "everywhere" claim?



Which has nothing to do with your "everywhere" claim. It shows that they had advertising. Novel, right?



Again... whut? And what does that have to do with your "everywhere" claim?



Correct, but we all agreed to the AUP. That includes the line "You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate".

Your claim is, so far, one or more of the above until you can prove otherwise. So we're back at square one; where's your source for your claim?

Shut up for God sake. Your not proving anything your just being an anoying smart ass.

 

[Furinkazen]

Shut up for God sake. Your not proving anything your just being an anoying smart ass.

Is sticking to rules really bring a smart ass? Appears HKS forgot the point of advertising is for brand exposure and to raise awareness.

 

[Eva]

Shut up for God sake. Your not proving anything your just being an anoying smart ass.

And you have trouble spelling? And yeah we are. It's basic economics.

 

[Northstar]

There is one thing I can't wrap my around about the internet racing community. They complain endlessly about VAG teams winning everything, than when another manufacturer enters they attack them and hope they fail.

It's sad to see Nissan leave as I wanted to see how the car developed even if it really was a doomed concept. Although seeing the way they went about telling the employees makes me lose any respect I had for them as a company. Would it really have been too much to wait a couple weeks until after the holidays?

If onroak can sell 10 LMP2 cars at a capped cost, support there customers and still get a profit I think Audi can as well. I'm not sure if the customer gets a driver included with the car or not tho.

Of course, but the margins are nowhere near what you are making them to be, especially when we don't know how much they spend on R&D.

 

[HKS racer]

Shut up for God sake. Your not proving anything your just being an anoying smart ass.

This.

Is sticking to rules really bring a smart ass? Appears HKS forgot the point of advertising is for brand exposure and to raise awareness.

Not at the expenses of race results, at least according to how some brands approached racing at Le Mans in the last 10 years.

"This became apparent while chatting with a bigwig from one of Nissan's P1 rivals minutes before the race. The GT-R LM is an attention grab, he said, a sideshow not worthy of racing at la Sarthe. He called the NISMO program "a disgrace," then asked not be quoted by name. Which, considering what he said next, is understandable:

"What is their intention? You can come here and do whatever you want, say whatever you want, but when the final minutes come, what will you show? That's what racing is about. Is coming to race just a marketing tool? Just marketing? That's what pisses me off. In the old days, the technical side was on top. Now, marketing is the top. The technical side is not as important.

"And if it is just marketing that Nissan is doing, then there is something wrong with the sport. If [the car] isn't showing promise in simulations and testing, it will never fly. Never. They may be embarrassed, but they knew from the beginning, after the Sebring test. Stay home. Even if it's totally different, it still has to work."

Dude was genuinely offended. And this is more than a little gamely ****-talking; it's an insight into the German corporate culture, how they approach racing. This guy doesn't hate the GT-R LM because it's a competitive threat—he hates it because it's not. Basically, the Germans think Nissan is trolling Le Mans. Hard."

http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a25900/the-nissan-gt-r-lmp1-is-damn-good-for-racing/

 

[Vagabond]

Shut up for God sake. Your not proving anything your just being an anoying smart ass.

Unacceptable attitude. If something annoys you that much better to walk away than bite like this. You will get this one friendly warning since I'm feeling festive.