2015 General WEC/ELMS/AsLMS Discussion ThreadSports Cars 

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BMW's F1 program did have a great run in the first turbo-era in the 80s. Piquet winning the 1983 championship in the Brabham and the solid results from Benetton and the Megatron-badged Arrows later on.

Also running at the same time was the Porsche built TAG engines that gave McLaren much success in the mid 80s.

With that, both BMW and Porsche can become dominant forces if they seriously put their efforts into a project.
 
Clark
Apart from F1, BMW have won almost everything they have ever entered at least once; Le Mans, BTCC, WTCC, ETCC, STW, DTM, ALMS/Tudor, Spa/Nur 24, Sebring and the list goes on...
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That's great and all but unlike others they're static in going about trying to achieve things at higher levels. The last high profile thing they did was 7 years ago. What I don't think you get that I'm saying is on an actual factory basis, BMW is no where near what they were known for as far as Motorsports goes. They pulled the factory plug on all F1 activity, they haven't seen a sports car race at the top of the ladder in fifteen years, they pulled the plug on WRC support and BTCC support. And that's not even counting on the stuff they've had "interest in" and then said nah, not worth it.

For a group that wants to be taken seriously as a pinnacle of performance in the area of the automotive world they compete for they sure aren't doing anything globally to promote such things...and DTM is national based at the end of the day so I really don't consider that.

@aarror got the joke about me making fun of BMW and it's owners so that's good 👍

But yes I do think the current business model from BWM doesn't promote racing like those they compete against.

Kamuifanboy
They're never interested because usually they don't need to be in order to be successful in it ;) The Z4 GT3 was pretty half assed (The shape of the car is terrible for racing) and look how much it kicks ass. DTM, they came in, and conquered immediately.
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In what sense? They had a working platform for the car and just put the M3 V8 in it that had already been proven... I mean it really wasn't some miracle or rocket science that a small car with that power would be as fast more quickly than the car before it. Which is probably why the M6 GT3/GTE is took so long to get here. Once again DTM is about as important to the international scene as JGTC/Super GT to me. So good luck getting any more out of me on that.

To me, Porsche and BMW should be highly respected to high levels within the Motorsport world. Those are the only 2 companies I can think of that always come in and are competitive right away. They don't take many years, or even races for that matter, to get their stuff together. When they get in, they mean business. It's money well spent then. What Nissan is doing this year, is a joke. Test the car first, then when you feel you are nearly ready to race, you announce things.
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Sure I agree they should, when actually competing in something that is of higher difficulty than what they have. The Z4 is about the only thing that is doing that, but not as great as it was say a couple years ago when it came out. The Z4 now days very much struggles against the likes of Ferrari, Porsche and Corvette (Le Mans and in the U.S.), and Audi in the GT3, GT-D stuff.

Also who said anything about Nissan? I have more respect for them right now than BMW...they have GT3 factory backed cars, they are an LMP2 supplier with engines, they are giving money to factory efforts in their own DTM-esque series, and on top of all that they're in V8 Supercars spending a good amount and also in a premier series like LMP1. That alone shows me they care more about racing than BMW does in this generation of Motorsports and that makes me feel better when I have the choice between them and a group who doesn't when I go buy a product.

Side note, I'd say any German group is like BMW and Porsche (as you see them), I've always respected Porsche more because of Bias and due effort. But Mercedes and Audi are the same as them and always have been, if they join something it's not too long after that you see them dominating.
 
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So how many 24 hour races has the Nissan won compared to the Z4?

And in GTD they won the title last year and were subsequently shafted by the BOP.
 
Clark
So how many 24 hour races has the Nissan won compared to the Z4?

And in GTD they won the title last year and were subsequently shafted by the BOP.
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So Nissan don't deserve respect based on the criteria of winning or losing a single race? I was hoping your avatar wasn't indicative of your preference or at least if it was you could still be open minded...starting to think otherwise. Considering the competition and the attempts being made by others that aren't German is more budget restrictive and GTE is pretty equal and highly maintenance on balance portion, better question is how can you compare them?
 
No but you say you give more respect to Nissan yet BMW do just as much. They had an LMP2 engine (and still have in Krohn's Ligier) but the Nissan engine has taken over, but I won't go in to politics of BOP.

BMW don't need to advertise themselves in some places, so why waste money running a team when building a car and supporting teams is just as effective.

You say DTM doesn't mean much to you but unsurprisingly the German Touring car championship is pretty important between the big 3 premium/executive brands in Germany.
 
Clark
No but you say you give more respect to Nissan yet BMW do just as much. They had an LMP2 engine (and still have in Krohn's Ligier) but the Nissan engine has taken over, but I won't go in to politics of BOP.

BMW don't need to advertise themselves in some places, so why waste money running a team when building a car and supporting teams is just as effective.

You say DTM doesn't mean much to you but unsurprisingly the German Touring car championship is pretty important between the big 3 premium/executive brands in Germany.
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No they don't.

Also you clearly misunderstood what I said about the DTM, it doesn't mean much to a guy any where outside of Germany how well a prototype saloon car does against other German prototype saloon cars. For example if BMW wins at Norisring and Audi comes at best 4th, but I just saw Audi win the 24 Hours of Le Mans and two weeks before that I saw their factory effort win in a Blancpain race as well, that holds more impact. Cause Audi globally is doing more and thus leading us to believe that this success is something we can expect from their product line.

So please inform me of all the factory stuff BMW is in. I give respect to those that are willing to put their names (manufactures) out there and compete, I'm willing to respect those who put R&D and engineering efforts out their to further all automotive. BMW I can honestly say at the time of this post isn't one of those groups, correct me if I'm wrong and that'll be fine.

side note: I talked about Super GT (which in essence is a Japanese DTM) as part of the Nissan list because DTM was used as part of BMWs repertoire. However, I mutually see both in the same light as I would most national based series with only national manufactures.

@RACECAR one it's a forum, two it's a discussion that said forums promote, three it actually pertains to the topic. Why you have to be the moral arbiter all of a sudden, I have no idea but it's just conversation. Not sure why it's so obstructive to you.
 
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I just had enough arguing for one night so I responded, I'm not trying to be anything.
 
Thiriet by TDS Oreca 05 leads FP2 at Paul Ricard and Pla in the Krohn Ligier 2nd quickest. Overall the JOTA and Greaves trio's seem to have the advantage with avg. time with all 3 drivers. Tracy Krohn takes the honor of the wooden spoon by being the slowest P2 driver by a full second.

2016 ELMS schedule.

March 29-30 — Prologue (TBA)
April 15-16 — Silverstone
May 13-15 — Imola
July 15-17 — Red Bull Ring
Aug. 26-28 — Paul Ricard
Sept. 23-25 — Spa-Francorchamps*
October 21-23 — Estoril

*To be confirmed

Also some changes to the format with the addition of track time on Friday.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/elms/2016-elms-schedule-released/
 
IforceV8
Thiriet by TDS Oreca 05 leads FP2 at Paul Ricard and Pla in the Krohn Ligier 2nd quickest. Overall the JOTA and Greaves trio's seem to have the advantage with avg. time with all 3 drivers. Tracy Krohn takes the honor of the wooden spoon by being the slowest P2 driver by a full second.
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So, business as usual.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
So please inform me of all the factory stuff BMW is in. I give respect to those that are willing to put their names (manufactures) out there and compete, I'm willing to respect those who put R&D and engineering efforts out their to further all automotive. BMW I can honestly say at the time of this post isn't one of those groups, correct me if I'm wrong and that'll be fine.


@RACECAR one it's a forum, two it's a discussion that said forums promote, three it actually pertains to the topic. Why you have to be the moral arbiter all of a sudden, I have no idea but it's just conversation. Not sure why it's so obstructive to you.
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I agree with this BMW is one of those companies that has a habit of building cars that don't abide by the rules then try to talk series into allowing them to race.

Thankfully the ACO showed some back bone and stood up to them.
 
So, now that I know they publish how long each driver is behind the wheel, I'm going to put this out there as a feeler to see if the interest is there.

Fantasy Endurance Challenge​

- For each WEC race 3 drivers will be selected for each class. Finishing order will be determined by what driver combo in each class has completed the most laps. The two GTE classes may be combined to make things a little less complex.

- A chassis from each class will also be selected, I haven't come up with a good way to score this though as there is no set number of entrants per chassis. I'm leaning towards using average distance though.

- You will only be able to change drivers a limited amount of times during a season. You would not be allowed to change the chassis selection though.

- Non-WEC races may be added if I can find lap by lap stats for other series' (or just somewhere that lists how long each driver was behind the wheel).

Let me know if this would be a good idea as well as any ideas you may have about it.
 
Northstar
So, now that I know they publish how long each driver is behind the wheel, I'm going to put this out there as a feeler to see if the interest is there.

Fantasy Endurance Challenge​

- For each WEC race 3 drivers will be selected for each class. Finishing order will be determined by what driver combo in each class has completed the most laps. The two GTE classes may be combined to make things a little less complex.

- A chassis from each class will also be selected, I haven't come up with a good way to score this though as there is no set number of entrants per chassis. I'm leaning towards using average distance though.

- You will only be able to change drivers a limited amount of times during a season. You would not be allowed to change the chassis selection though.

- Non-WEC races may be added if I can find lap by lap stats for other series' (or just somewhere that lists how long each driver was behind the wheel).

Let me know if this would be a good idea as well as any ideas you may have about it.
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Or how about we keep this for genuine discussion and not fantasy stuff.
 
Holdenhsvgtsr
Which was in line with the discussion that was on going at the time, own thread for fantasy world please.
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Let me know when you become a mod and I'll get right on that, for now though I'll let this petty squabble die.:cheers:
 
Holdenhsvgtsr
So where is you creating a fantasy league have to do with discussing news relating to WEC/ELMS/ALMS?
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Well, if you would have read the post prior to telling me to shut up you may have noticed it's based on the WEC.

Anyways, I really don't get why you even started this considering it was just one post that you could have easily ignored and let the idea die, but instead you've turned it into a multiple post argument about pretty much nothing. If you want to continue this conversation, which is far more off topic than the post that started it, than you can start a private conversation with me.

-Cheers.
 
Northstar
Well, if you would have read the post prior to telling me to shut up you may have noticed it's based on the WEC.
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Where did I tell you to shut up?


Northstar
Anyways, I really don't get why you even started this considering it was just one post that you could have easily ignored and let the idea die, but instead you've turned it into a multiple post argument about pretty much nothing. If you want to continue this conversation, which is far more off topic than the post that started it, than you can start a private conversation with me.

-Cheers.
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Or maybe the suggestion will help it get more notice considering everyone else that does fantasies leagues knows how to create their own threads and it would get it more and attention and not get lost in other "news" which is what this thread is for. :)
 
Holdenhsvgtsr
Where did I tell you to shut up?
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Holdenhsvgtsr
Or how about we keep this for genuine discussion and not fantasy stuff.
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Or maybe the suggestion will help it get more notice considering everyone else that does fantasies leagues knows how to create their own threads and it would get it more and attention and not get lost in other "news" which is what this thread is for. :)
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Because I didn't feel like clogging up the main page with a thread people may not even care about.💡
 
Holdenhsvgtsr
So if you know people won't care why mention it 💡
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I said may not care, meaning the outcome is uncertain. Perhaps if you want to act superior to someone you should at least actually read their posts.

Furinkazen
Northstar was in wrong thread
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"WEC/ ELMS / AsLMS Discussion Thread"

I'm fairly certain this is the right thread, it says nothing in the title about it only for being about news related to those series', it's just a general discussion thread.
 
Point is just like the attitude about certain debates on here, the other high and mighty attitude stuff going around is old. If people don't like what they see or deem it's in violation why not report? Or ignore the posts in question?
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Point is just like the attitude about certain debates on here, the other high and mighty attitude stuff going around is old. If people don't like what they see or deem it's in violation why not report? Or ignore the posts in question?
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Or if people posted in the proper places in the first place then it wouldn't happen ;) 💡
 
Holdenhsvgtsr
Or if people posted in the proper places in the first place then it wouldn't happen ;) 💡
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I'm fairly certain the issue of where things should be posted is not up to you, unless you are secretly a mod that is.;)💡
 
Holdenhsvgtsr
Or if people posted in the proper places in the first place then it wouldn't happen ;) 💡
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My point fully stands, if you felt there was a violation and it was derailing the thread unlike arguing back and forth about it (something that users should complain about not arguments on topic), then report it. That simple, it is quite clear cut and finished if you think about it. Justin thinks it's fine, you don't, so report and move on with life.
 
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