2016 Formula 1 British Grand Prix

sems4arsenal
I feel Hamilton,Perez and Nico are examples of situations where teams should help their drivers, what's fun about seeing a driver stuck in a slow mode or not knowing how to nurse a failing gearbox.
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Once again I fully agree with you. Grounds of safety is a easy line to draw and I think they took the easy option in drawing the line there rather than trying to get consensus from everyone involved on where to draw an arbitrary line. For example an team with less complex systems is not going to agree to a team with more complex systems being allowed to driver coach on those more complex systems.
 
PzR Slim
Once again I fully agree with you. Grounds of safety is a easy line to draw and I think they took the easy option in drawing the line there rather than trying to get consensus from everyone involved on where to draw an arbitrary line. For example an team with less complex systems is not going to agree to a team with more complex systems being allowed to driver coach on those more complex systems.
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Which is entirely their fault if they don't know where to draw the line, untill you can establish proper rules atleast show some leniency.

The weird thing is they don't mind giving instructions to avoid imminent failure, but isn't avoid 7th just that? If not and the car could have gone to the end without this than Nico was actually at an unnecessary disadvantage.
 
H20HYBRID_GT
Pretty clever from Mercedes though, third place is a lot better than a potential DNF. Just shows how nonsensical this rule is.
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Yep now everybody in the field can use their radios again and only get a 10 sec penalty for it so in the end it will be even.
 
sems4arsenal
So was he supposed to guess which gear should he skip? Or should he just drive normally and hope the gearbox won't fail?
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I don't know, I think this was a marginal call. The decision isn't final, we'll have to see how things pan out.

PzR Slim
Currently they can be instructed on grounds of car or event safety, which I think we all agree with. However, we were discussing allowing communication that aren't on the grounds of safety. My question is how to get agreement on what is acceptable when safety is not the concern?
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How to get any agreement on anything is a difficult question. I don't know :)

IforceV8
One can dream...
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You dream that there was no F1 to watch or do you think that F1 would have continued to exist without Bernie?
 
So Ham @1 now.

I'm against radio but I do agree that it makes no sense to not let them solve those kind of problem. The problem is that when you give f1 teams a hand they gonna want an arm.
 
It is a problem to black and white define driver coaching. Most people wanted rid of the "Brake 10m later", "X driver is quicker in T2 taking the wider line" type coaching but how do you blanket ban those whilst also allowing what happened today, it's not as clear cut that telling him not to use a gear is coaching or not.

Logically you could decide with common sense but how do you put it in writing with no legal ambiguity? Not easy. Hence what is unfolding. There are hundreds of possibilities that you would need to cover.
 
So impressed with Max Verstappen. 18 years old to be that fast in the wet on such a testing track. What a future he has.

Hope they can change to just driver coaching not allowed. Said it a few races ago but I don't want to see them being told where they can gain time, brake a bit later here and take this line and asking where is the other guy gaining time.

Discussing faults with the car should be allowed whatever it is. I doubt many want to see drivers coasting along playing lottery with codes on a steering wheel. Not only that I think it's dangerous and one day there'll be a grey area where the team will argue safety or terminal failure was a risk and will be let off and another week it will be a penalty for something similar. I'd rather not have a long list of potentials and variables with teams arguing whether it was right to give info or not.
 
IforceV8
I dream of a day when he is no longer involved and somebody that is close to sane can fix this sport.
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Er, okay. It still wouldn't exist today without him but maybe F1 history's not your thing. For today's villains you should be looking at CVC and the team bosses.
 
TenEightyOne
Er, okay. It still wouldn't exist today without him but maybe F1 history's not your thing. For today's villains you should be looking at CVC and the team bosses.
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Indeed. CVC pull Bernie's strings, he is just the puppet and will be replaced by another one when he is gone. FIA will continue to pander to the teams on rules.
 
Here's another issue. Hamilton lost more than ten seconds fumbling around and lost possible points if I recall. A ten second penalty after the race would've been pretty favourable for Lewis at that time but even if it wasn't, in the future can a team now look at the cost and take the penalty or will we see it sometimes applied during the race in future with added pitstop time which bring up consistency and who deems what is worse than the last time a penalty was given?

Avoiding a fault is quite often worth the risk if its 10 seconds, especially in a Mercedes.
 
Samus
It is a problem to black and white define driver coaching. Most people wanted rid of the "Brake 10m later", "X driver is quicker in T2 taking the wider line" type coaching but how do you blanket ban those whilst also allowing what happened today, it's not as clear cut that telling him not to use a gear is coaching or not.

Logically you could decide with common sense but how do you put it in writing with no legal ambiguity? Not easy. Hence what is unfolding. There are hundreds of possibilities that you would need to cover.
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People complained about driver coaching and the fix may have just created a whole new set of problems. Ask yourself whether you'd rather just put up with instructions that we're not always going to hear anyways or situations like today where we're having to discuss whether a compilation of words were a violation of regulations that are wide open to interpretation.
 
sems4arsenal
Which is entirely their fault if they don't know where to draw the line, untill you can establish proper rules atleast show some leniency.

The weird thing is they don't mind giving instructions to avoid imminent failure, but isn't avoid 7th just that? If not and the car could have gone to the end without this than Nico was actually at an unnecessary disadvantage.
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The way I understood it was that it was all fine until Nico asked how could he avoid 7th, and should he just go through it, and the team confirmed he should just go through it. That's the bit they fell foul of.
 
daan
The way I understood it was that it was all fine until Nico asked how could he avoid 7th, and should he just go through it, and the team confirmed he should just go through it. That's the bit they fell foul of.
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As far as I understand you're absolutely correct, still daft though he can easily figure something like that out on his own, just seems like giving him a penalty for the sake of future violations.

I've never driven a F1 car and knew exactly what the engineer meant.
 
What I can't understand is why were they so willing to give Nico information when they had locked lips with Hamilton in Baku when arguably the stakes were much higher (in 1st place and a long way from the end).
 
Robin.
What I can't understand is why were they so willing to give Nico information when they had locked lips with Hamilton in Baku when arguably the stakes were much higher (in 1st place and a long way from the end).
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Yep and you can bet Hamilton will also feel exactly the same way as you do.
 
So do nico and max have to swap trophies?
Looks like nicos was silver and maxs was a bit bronze.

And I think they state the place finished.
 
Grayfox
So do nico and max have to swap trophies?
Looks like nicos was silver and maxs was a bit bronze.

And I think they state the place finished.
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They do indeed. And the copis that the drivers receive; most teams keep the originals as part of the contract :)

Could be worse, remember Fisichella receiving the winning trophy for Brazil from Raikkonnen about two weeks after the event?
 
Dull race. With the rain I expected a lot more of a mix up, but that VSC ruined any chance of that. Poor Dan, he can't take a trick at the moment. Looked good at
the start but picked the absolute worst time to pit and got stuck behind Perez who was my driver of the day.

Max did well too, that was a great overtake. It just sucks in these comditions, Rosberg's balls shrink to the size of peanuts, and means Lewis has yet another unchallenged run to the flag. His penalty is pure comedy though, it really does make F1 look like a laughing stock.

I can't see things changing at Hungaroriing, a track Hamilton traditionally has been strong at, but I expect the Red Bulls to be very close. I'll be putting my money on Dan taking a long overdue first win of 2016, so he can finally crush the demons of Spain and Monaco.
 
daan
The way I understood it was that it was all fine until Nico asked how could he avoid 7th, and should he just go through it, and the team confirmed he should just go through it. That's the bit they fell foul of.
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Pretty silly way to gain a penalty.

I think it's absolutely ludicrous not to be able to tell a driver how to not blow up a gearbox on track and possibly cause an accident... but given that they've already been through this at Baku, the team should have known how this was going to go.

Though, if you're told seventh isn't working, it should be pretty simple to figure out you have to avoid seventh, right?
 
Tired Tyres
No it shouldn't. Safety cars close up the field and rob drivers of any advantage they have earned.
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Well, the VSC can easily make or break your race at random depending on whether you've pit or not. Ricciardo's race was destroyed by the VSC as he had already pit while his team mate and the Mercs could pit under VSC and lose less time, while Perez made up 7 positions due to pitting under VSC. So I don't see it as a better option than a safety car.
 
@niky, not if the problem posed is so bad that if you engage for any amount of time the whole thing becomes lost, since the car has 8 gears, my guess would be him wanting to short shift to 8th in certain places. However, to do so would mean to engage 7th for a time even short could spell the end of his race if the issue was that bad. So why him just double checking is an issue is just as silly as if they told him without him asking and it being an issue.
 

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