Formula 1 2016 Formula 1 Grande Premio do Brasil

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by TenEightyOne, Nov 8, 2016.

  1. Spurgy 777

    Spurgy 777

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    No, you're extremely naive if you think a racing driver is "just someone who drives fast". It completely disregards race craft and the amount of thinking that goes into actually pulling off an overtake. Verstappen was a perfect example of a great racing driver this race, he didn't just stick his car wherever, he was constantly thinking of new lines, new places he could put his car to try and out smart and out race the people in front. If you only think as far forward as the next corner, or the next few feet, especially in such difficult conditions where just staying on the track is hard enough, you're going to have a crash. A good racing driver needs to weigh up the risks and benefits of making a move, they don't just go for anything regardless of the risk.
     
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  2. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    There you go again. Someone who just drives fast is NOT A RACE DRIVER. That is what my post says. Are you deliberately misreading what I post?

    Not to mention selective memory. Verstappen? How many times has he stuffed it?
     
  3. Spurgy 777

    Spurgy 777

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    My fault I read it wrong, mostly because that's exactly what you're describing, someone that can only go fast and has no ability to plan overtakes, analyse risks and look at the big picture.

    That's why I said this race, because this race he was a great example of a good racing driver.
     
  4. LogiForce

    LogiForce Premium

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    It seemed more like he just was busy keeping heat in his brakes instead, but i'll give you the benefit of the doubt. ;)
     
  5. LogiForce

    LogiForce Premium

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    Same here... same here. They, as in 99% of the grid, have got some homework to do for sure. Enough sims for them to use at home these days. :)
     
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  6. Saidur_Ali

    Saidur_Ali

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    I thought a lot of the drivers did a really good job. What stood out for Max is how much better he did than Daniel but I think that's more Daniel underperforming probably due to visibility issues he had, confidence is important in these conditions. I'm sure most of the grid would have loved to have a Red Bull car on fresh wet tyres in these conditions too, a car that should really have fought for 1st place rather than battle to get to the podium. What I found most concerning was some of the teams desperate to put Inters on, cars were crashing on the extreme wet tyres and all some teams could think about was putting Inters on even after seeing others struggling with them and weather forecast being not very good. I thought they were crazy like Lewis said, it's like they couldn't see how bad it was in sector 3.

    I was not surprised by Max performance, expected him to come through the field quickly as pace advantage was so great and know from F3 he is great in the wet, Norisring comes to mind. Yes he had to pass a lot of cars to get to podium but 13 seconds with new tyres (Something like 25 laps fresher than most of the competition) and 16 laps to make up difference to a Force India. He didn't seem to have much different pace to Lewis even with fresher tyres. The way the media are talking up his peformance, you would think he was driving a Manor and was lapping much quicker than the Mercedes in equal conditions.

    Anyway world-class performance by Lewis, seemed to have a big pace advantage over Nico again like Monaco race in the wet. I wonder if there has ever been another F1 race where the top two didn't do a pit stop for tyres. Hopefully it rains in Abu Dhabi to spice things up for title decider.
     
  7. LogiForce

    LogiForce Premium

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    I don't think we need to put this down to tyres.

    The last safety car came out in lap 48 when Massa lost it, than in lap 54 Max went from Inters back to Wets which put him back to last place at 16th position. In lap 55 the safety car went back in, which meant that 7 laps of slow pace on wets. Of course I reckon that the field put fresh wets under in the 2nd red flag period, which was in lap 29, but that restarted back behind the safety car which meant in during round 32. So that's 10 slow laps and 22 laps at pace for the rest of the field at moment of final green flag.
    After that they both ran 25 more laps, at least according to live timing on Formula.com Verstappen did 25 laps on his last set of wets. So the rest of the field should be on 47 laps on their wet tyres of which 10 were slow Safety car laps, and that's also what Lewis shows on that same live timing chart... 47 laps on wet tyres, of which thus were 37 at race pace verus 25 for verstappen at race pace. Thus a difference of 17 laps.

    Now when I grab the live timing chart again and look at best laps of the entire field, than it shows that both Lewis and Max were an average of 1 second quicker than the rest. Lewis did a 1:25.639 and Max a 1:25.305, thus a mere .334th of a second difference between them.
    So that means the wear on the tyres during 17 laps only was able to slow down Lewis for .334th of a second, which totally doesn't explain the full second slower driving of the others on the grid, including Nico Rosberg who was still half a second slower with his fastest lap.

    So honestly... how come the others were so much slower if even Lewis was only impacted by .334th of a second per lap?
    It could be tyres, but than it's still because of the appaling rain driving skills of all of the others. In this case I saw them all do one thing wrong, and that is to continuously follow the dry racing line. Resulting in them not being able to manage tyre temperature and with that the wear of the tyre, but also since the dry line has rubber ingrained in it over the weekend... it's even more slippery than normal tarmac on the outside of the dry racing line. Hence you saw Max easily overtaking Nico around the outside.

    So it's not because of the tyres, it's really all down to the really bad rain driving skills and how the other drivers are not capable of managing their tyres in the wet. Let alone finding the right line that has grip.
     
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  8. niky

    niky Moderator

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    This is something I noticed that bugged me during the safety car laps, but I didn't actually make the connection.

    Looking back on it, it all makes sense. Most drivers don't bother to practice during the safety car, since they know the track already. But Max was weaving all over the place, and Lewis was taking some very odd lines in what were supposed to be parade laps.
     
  9. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne Premium

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    And that's why the comparisons with Hamilton, Schumacher (M) and Senna seem warranted, at least on the basis of this race.
     
  10. daan

    daan Moderator

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    I'm also pretty sure that Lewis had everyone covered, including Max, and that he could have upped his pace if he needed to.
     
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  11. niky

    niky Moderator

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    I think that's a given... the only time he and Max were even close to each other, he built up a cushion pretty quickly, whereas Rsoberg struggled with Max.

    You know, I've been watching Max for over a year, and I admit he's a fast driver, and an aggressive one, but this is the first time I've really appreciated him as a good driver, with more tactics in his toolbox than throwing elbows at overtakers. Now I am ready to admit that he could be future champion material.
     
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  12. Nessy

    Nessy

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    Easily the most enjoyable race of the season! It pretty much had it all.

    Hamilton drove superbly (which is great for Hamilton fans). Rosberg drove a safe race and did enough to make his WDC dreams a fast becoming reality, (great for Rosberg fans). Max drove an awesome race. (Who'd bet against him being a future champion, eh?) And Massa getting some love and respect from his dearest fans.

    Overall, a great race! for the whole of F1.
     
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  13. BrainsBush

    BrainsBush

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    even our Max has an opinion about the driver of the day (@5:33)



    And what about this one (@4:46). Just to make that clear :lol:.

     
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  14. Dennisch

    Dennisch Premium

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    Excellent. Because I'm Dutch. :lol:
     
  15. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne Premium

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    But he's Belgian!

    What's next, the Germans claiming Rosberg? :D :D
     
  16. dingodile_r89

    dingodile_r89

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    Depends on which Rosberg. Keke was actually born in Sweden, if I'm not mistaken.
     
  17. Dennisch

    Dennisch Premium

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    Silence!
     
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  18. dingodile_r89

    dingodile_r89

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    Yeah, the Belgians had Ickx. Let the Dutch have their day, eh?
     
  19. BrainsBush

    BrainsBush

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    Our southern neighbors have Stoffel and he is also one to watch.

    No volunteers for Vettel or Jacques Villeneuve?
     
  20. Peter.

    Peter.

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    Speaking of Vettel, anyone else feel his stick has fallen a lot in the past 3 years? Say what you will but Ricciardo schooled him in 2014. 2015 looked like he was on his way back to his best, and 2016 he's been worse than ever. Can't even fully blame Ferrari this time.

    Is it still too soon to give his driver's titles over to Newey?
     
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  21. Dennisch

    Dennisch Premium

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    The scale is going that way quite fast. Vettel hasn't been impressive at all.
     
  22. Pezzarinho17

    Pezzarinho17

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    I think I posted somewhere here that seeing Vettel was joining Ferrari in 2015 did not scare me half as much as seeing Alonso head to Maranello. I don't think he is as good as Alonso, but more on point I don't think Ferrari are as close to winning as they seem to think they are.... And it has been that way since 2009.
     
  23. Dennisch

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    One more thing about Max' shenanigans yesterday.

    All of his overtakes seemed to be going with respect for the other drivers, especially the one on Perez. Max left plenty of room for every single one of them.

    Except for one, on Vettel. Who is slowly turning into the biggest crying turd we've seen in quite some seasons of F1.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016
  24. VolkswagenX

    VolkswagenX

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    I think people are being a little bit to harsh on Vettel and seem to judge him more on his potty mouth than on his driving. The car seems to be third best this season and he is still in fourth. Not bad for a bad season.
     
  25. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne Premium

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    Personally I judge him on his return to the Vettel-of-old, turning across other cars like they're not there. This season sees him in a record number (by his standards) of such accidents, I think.
     
  26. DK

    DK Premium

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    Who'd be the Bellof in this race? Sainz? Nasr? Ocon?
     
  27. dingodile_r89

    dingodile_r89

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    To be fair, Rosberg didn't get a proper crack at Hamilton because the one place that Hamilton cocked up, the start, was completely negated by the safety car start.
     
  28. PzR Slim

    PzR Slim Premium

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    Have been unimpressed by Vettel this year. He's clearly a very good driver but wouldn't put him in the top five of the current grid. Spends far too much time moaning. I understand he's frustrated by his cars lack of performance but he just needs to get on with it.
     
  29. Dennisch

    Dennisch Premium

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  30. LogiForce

    LogiForce Premium

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    On your exception...

    1. Vettel did the same move against Alonso, and didn't get a penalty for it either.
    2. Vettel did it first to Max one or two rounds earlier, but Max had the smarts to actually back off to avoid issues.
    3. Vettel should've had the same smarts to back off as well, but he chose to be the stubborn fool instead.

    All in all, Vettel had no valid reason to whine in this case.
     
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