2016 Formula 1 Grande Premio do BrasilFormula 1 

Peter.
Speaking of Vettel, anyone else feel his stick has fallen a lot in the past 3 years? Say what you will but Ricciardo schooled him in 2014. 2015 looked like he was on his way back to his best, and 2016 he's been worse than ever. Can't even fully blame Ferrari this time.

Is it still too soon to give his driver's titles over to Newey?
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I completely disagree, he's done quite well at Ferrari. Last year he didn't finish outside of the top 5, he only finished outside the top 3 four times, he comfortably beat Kimi for 3rd in the championship (although with 3 less retirements) and wasn't too far off Rosberg who had a far better car. This year he has only finished outside of the top 5 twice and without his 4 DNFs would be competing with Ricciardo for 3rd place in the championship again. The only way he is letting himself down is by complaining too much.
 
Peter.
Speaking of Vettel, anyone else feel his stick has fallen a lot in the past 3 years? Say what you will but Ricciardo schooled him in 2014. 2015 looked like he was on his way back to his best, and 2016 he's been worse than ever. Can't even fully blame Ferrari this time.

Is it still too soon to give his driver's titles over to Newey?
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I think people need to understand that sometimes performances or results are effected by circumstances. I mean we have been hearing a lot about how Ric has outperformed Seb in 2014 and that he's an average driver and all of this nonsense. But if people think like this, then it's fair to say that Rosberg and Button schooled Hamilton in 2012 & 2016 !

Too soon give Hamilton titles back to the guy who built the Merc?

I believe the Ferraris and the Williams are the most cars difficult to drive on the grid + Seb had the worst luck if all drivers this season.
 
Doesn't help that Ferrari is an utter mess at the moment so let's not get crazy yet(and let's not forget the mechanical problems Seb had in 2014 as well with that Renault engine).
 
spyrrari
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/346954/pirelli-gives-credit-to-magical-verstappen/


:D


Spy.
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So the way I read that Pirelli basically confirmed what I said two posts ago. Nice to know. :)

Still... I don't think it was "magical". If others aren't rain drivers, than it's almost just like asking a sunday driver to do a drag at the lights. :rolleyes:
So Max and Lewis both just knew what to do in those conditions, the rest... not so much.

Edit:
It seems that only two guys were on inters until the end.
Everyone had used tyres at lap 28, which had been used since lap twenty? Or how should I read the below?
Of these 51 laps Verstappen only traded for inters for 11 laps according to Pirelli. So that's 40 laps on wets, against 51 for the rest. In that time only Lewis and Max set a 1:25.xxx lap record.

Interesting. Still, Lewis said he was chilling up front. So that just means Verstappen had an advantage, but also traffic against him. In other words, in a free lap he could have probably set an even faster time. Lewis could too, but he was just saving his tyres as there didn't seem to be a need since Nico was fine with 2nd and didn't want to take risks.

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Rossticles
The team principal said he retired due to electrical problems with his MGU-H and MGU-K. I'm sure there was the obvious Haas Achilles' heel brake problem lingering around too.
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Hmmmm. Gutiérrez's reaction wasn't the reaction of a man who just suffered a mechanical fault. Nor was Steiner's, for that matter. I'm guessing that, at the very least, there was some residual tension left over from his dismissal.
 
Spurgy 777
I completely disagree, he's done quite well at Ferrari. Last year he didn't finish outside of the top 5, he only finished outside the top 3 four times, he comfortably beat Kimi for 3rd in the championship (although with 3 less retirements) and wasn't too far off Rosberg who had a far better car. This year he has only finished outside of the top 5 twice and without his 4 DNFs would be competing with Ricciardo for 3rd place in the championship again. The only way he is letting himself down is by complaining too much.
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Saying he hasn barely finished outside of the top 5, with such a comfortable gap between the top 3 teams and the rest on most days, isn't particularly impressive. I know the Ferrari is no good this year, but they haven't gotten any help from Vettel doing his best impression of Maldonado, and whining profusely.

Kimi is very hot/cold and arguably hasnt shown his true colors since he last drove the Lotus, but he's even been giving Vettel a run in qualifying this year, something you'd expect someone regarded as such a great qualifier to at least have covered. Let's not pretend he hasn't had some miserable luck as well.

Ferrari were looking to send a message, And just hoping that Vettel would somehow replicate Schumacher's success, But he doesn't have the ability to build a team around him like Michael did. Alonso tried his best and was really unlucky, And he's probably the closest Ferrari will be for now to seeing a title again given their current state. I'd pip any of the Red Bull drivers to win a title before Vettel can do so in the Ferrari.
 
Peter.
Saying he hasn barely finished outside of the top 5, with such a comfortable gap between the top 3 teams and the rest on most days, isn't particularly impressive. I know the Ferrari is no good this year, but they haven't gotten any help from Vettel doing his best impression of Maldonado, and whining profusely.
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Not massively impressive, but somewhat disproves the notion that he's been doing badly the past couple of years. I'm not sure what you expect of him, he can't finish in the top 2 without some sort of miracle, and he shouldn't really finish outside of the top 6, so that's where he finishes. Compared to the other 3 drivers in a similar position, who are all top drivers, he's doing just as well if not slightly better.

Kimi is very hot/cold and arguably hasnt shown his true colors since he last drove the Lotus, but he's even been giving Vettel a run in qualifying this year, something you'd expect someone regarded as such a great qualifier to at least have covered. Let's not pretend he hasn't had some miserable luck as well.
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True but even taking into consideration retirements Vettel has covered off Kimi quite comfortably in the championship although less so this year.

Ferrari were looking to send a message, And just hoping that Vettel would somehow replicate Schumacher's success, But he doesn't have the ability to build a team around him like Michael did. Alonso tried his best and was really unlucky, And he's probably the closest Ferrari will be for now to seeing a title again given their current state. I'd pip any of the Red Bull drivers to win a title before Vettel can do so in the Ferrari.
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None of which really proves that he's doing a lot worse recently.
 
prisonermonkeys
Hmmmm. Gutiérrez's reaction wasn't the reaction of a man who just suffered a mechanical fault. Nor was Steiner's, for that matter. I'm guessing that, at the very least, there was some residual tension left over from his dismissal.
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Oh of course that goes in to it too. I'm sure there was that tension since Romain gets to stay with the team and he doesn't have a drive for next season yet. Sucks since he was plagued with problems early in the season that took him out of the points multiple times.
 
Rossticles
Oh of course that goes in to it too. I'm sure there was that tension since Romain gets to stay with the team and he doesn't have a drive for next season yet. Sucks since he was plagued with problems early in the season that
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I think Gutierrez deserves another chance,he had a bad car and season.But thats F1 for you,chews them up and spits them out.Palmer hasnt had the best time either, the only luck he's had was keeping his seat.Also, all this talk of max and senna, no ! Yes Max overtook loads, but his tyres were alot fresher. The senna era cars were alot more challenging to drive, maybe max could do the jobwith a manual shift and turbo lag, sadly we will never know.
 
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Famine
On FACC-adjusted points Vettel is the top ranked driver at the moment.
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I'm not sure the FACC is a valid means of comparing drivers if it only counts the lower placed car in a race(If Hamilton won all 21 races he'd have 0 points, for example). That is, if you're trying to use his placement as basis fo him actuslly performing very well this year.
 
Peter.
I'm not sure the FACC is a valid means of comparing drivers if it only counts the lower placed car in a race. If Hamilton won all 21 races he'd have 0 points, for example.
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Nope - he'd have at least 525pt. FACC-adjusted points scale drivers' WDC points up according to how their car handicaps them on FACC points. Being in the lead car multiplies your WDC points by 1. You can find the current ranking in the FACC thread.
 
Verstappen was good in Brazil but the drive was not AS GOOD as people go on about.

The Red Bull car is very good in the wet. Remember Ricciardo in Monaco this year. He battered everyone in the wet when his teammate put it in the wall. Only a silly pit stop cock up deprived him of the win.

Whereas Senna in 1984 was in a Toleman, that was a back marker car. Verstappen was in arguably the best car in F1 on completely fresh rubber. Does anyone not see what I see?
 
MCFerocious
Verstappen was good in Brazil but the drive was not AS GOOD as people go on about.

The Red Bull car is very good in the wet. Remember Ricciardo in Monaco this year. He battered everyone in the wet when his teammate put it in the wall. Only a silly pit stop cock up deprived him of the win.

Whereas Senna in 1984 was in a Toleman, that was a back marker car. Verstappen was in arguably the best car in F1 on completely fresh rubber. Does anyone not see what I see?
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Overreactions yes, but he was impressive. Not Senna, not anywhere close. But he does show he has some skills, and will be a world champion contender at some point.
 
MCFerocious
Verstappen was good in Brazil but the drive was not AS GOOD as people go on about.

The Red Bull car is very good in the wet. Remember Ricciardo in Monaco this year. He battered everyone in the wet when his teammate put it in the wall. Only a silly pit stop cock up deprived him of the win.

Whereas Senna in 1984 was in a Toleman, that was a back marker car. Verstappen was in arguably the best car in F1 on completely fresh rubber. Does anyone not see what I see?
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Having witnessed it in person, I can testify the Toleman was about as bad as it gets.
 
MCFerocious
Verstappen was good in Brazil but the drive was not AS GOOD as people go on about.

The Red Bull car is very good in the wet. Remember Ricciardo in Monaco this year. He battered everyone in the wet when his teammate put it in the wall. Only a silly pit stop cock up deprived him of the win.

Whereas Senna in 1984 was in a Toleman, that was a back marker car. Verstappen was in arguably the best car in F1 on completely fresh rubber. Does anyone not see what I see?
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The 1984 Toleman was actually much like a Red Bull. Aerodynamically good, but way down on power compared to the rest. Its predecessor had already racked up a number of fourth place finishes before Senna.

Toleman never had proper reliability and when they finally got the power to play in the big leagues, it got even worse, but the car was no pushover.
 
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Famine
On FACC-adjusted points Vettel is the top ranked driver at the moment.
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If Vettel is the leading FACC points, does that mean the FACC thread isn't going to give enough room this forum to all the other threads?
 

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