2016 Verizon IndyCar SeriesOpen Wheel 

  • Thread starter Thread starter VNAF Ace
  • 8,011 comments
  • 434,642 views
Status
Not open for further replies.
Ardius
I disagree, the better funded teams will inevitably have the best engineers, mechanics, strategists and have all the spare parts to cover any trouble as well as be able to go testing when they like along with so many other things.

Not only this, but giving every driver the same car doesn't necessarily mean everyone has a fair chance - certain cars favour certain drivers so even this isn't necessarily an indication of talent.

Plus this year we have three different engines which will all have different strengths and weaknesses, with the Judd(Lotus) most likely to be the worst due to either lower budget or less development (or both).
And on top of that we have a brand new Dallara chassis - which the better funded teams will presumably be able to test more and be on top of quicker.

Fortunately for Rubens he's at a team with a decent budget and personnel, with a Ilmor(Chevrolet) engine and what appears to be a good amount of testing mileage. This instantly gives him an advantage over say someone like Sebastien Bourdais who is at the very unfancied Dragon team with the Lotus engines.

No, to me a spec series only gives someone like Rubens an even bigger advantage if they land a decent drive as they can not only drive better than perhaps some of the drivers at the "top" teams but also make the best use of better resources than perhaps better drivers in "bottom" teams.

A great example of an experienced driver taking advantage of the same situation (reasonable team with decent resources, top teams have poor drivers) is Romain Grosjean last year in GP2. Though as I said earlier, Indycar does at least feature some very good drivers in Franchitti and Power as well as some tough nuts such as Kanaan. But equally I fully expect Rubens to be well into a midfield position almost from the beginning.

You could argue that a non-spec series ironically gives the poorer teams a chance sometimes to catch the top teams un-awares though this has very rarely happened - it has happened (Leyton House in 1990 always springs to mind). But I'd certainly say that being able to develop a car allows a car to be tailored to a driver's style more effectively and so this is why some drivers suddenly shine in some series but look pretty ordinary in others.
Click to expand...

I agree. include Braun GP for example. Rubins (although overshadowed by Button, really shined for the first time since Schumacher/Ferrari days. But put him in a Williams...
 
Earth
Franchitti, Castroneves, Kanaan, etc are all well out of their prime, but so is Reubens. In fact, in terms of driver talent, I have never seen Indycar so weak since I began following it. Through the years there was always a new fast young guy appearing every couple of years, dominating and winning races and championships. Now its a series full of, this may be harsh, washed up has been drivers in their late 30s.

Indycar's decline has alot to do with this, as showcased by young talent like AJ Allmendinger choosing to leave Indycar after winning 5 Champ Car races in 2006 to seek out the much greener pastures of NASCAR.
Click to expand...
Have you even followed IndyCar recently? How is Franchitti out of his prime when he has won 4 IndyCar championships in the last 5 years and beaten Will Power (who just turned 31) in the last 2 years? Why do you think older experienced drivers are a bad thing? IndyCar legends like Mario Andretti, Emerson Fittapaldi, AJ Foyt, Rick Mears, Bobby Rahal, Al Unser, all won races in their 40s and 50s during the glory years of the CART IndyCar World Series. Then, as now, IndyCars drivers need experience to win races and compete for championships.

And IndyCar already has its next generation of stars. Marco Andretti and Graham Rahal have won races and are coming into their prime. JR Hildebrand, James Hinchcliffe, Charlie Kimball are starting their 2nd year. AJ Allmendinger was in his 3rd year of Champ Car when he won his 1st race. And all of them are developing cars in a manufacturers race for the first time in their careers.

Earth
As for the ovals, they shouldn't be too much of a learning curve with the cars they are driving. The only way to make them a challenge on the ovals is to add 250 horsepower and take away downforce, to make them something like how they were in the early 90s, but that wont be happening anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Horsepower doesn't mean everything. You have to consider the power to weight ratio and the drag numbers. The DW12 IndyCar is lighter and has less drag than older IndyCars (including CART IndyCars). It doesn't need 1000 HP to average 230 MPH at Indy. And have you even watched an Indy 500 or a short track race in recent years? The drivers lift the throttle in the turns while racing wheel to wheel with others. When they qualify for the Indy 500, they're running negative wing angles to minimize drag and riding a fine line between making the race and crashing into the wall. And that was with the older IR05. I've seen the new Chevy IndyCars in person at Sears Point Raceway and I can tell you the new 2012 IndyCars look and sound more like CART IndyCars in action. The 2012 IndyCar Series will once again feature turbocharged engines from 3 manufacturers, drivers sliding their cars around turns trying to put all 750 HP down, and the some of best drivers in the world trying to master both oval and road/street racing to win the championship. Looks and sounds like the glory years of CART IndyCar World Series are coming back.
 
Last edited:
VNAF Ace
Have you even followed IndyCar recently? How is Franchitti out of his prime when he has won 4 IndyCar championships in the last 5 years and beaten Will Power (who just turned 31) in the last 2 years? Why do you think older experienced drivers are a bad thing? IndyCar legends like Mario Andretti, Emerson Fittapaldi, AJ Foyt, Rick Mears, Bobby Rahal, Al Unser, all won races in their 40s and 50s during the glory years of the CART IndyCar World Series. Then, as now, IndyCars drivers need experience to win races and compete for championships.
Click to expand...

Today's cars are much faster through the turns but slower down the straights, as confirmed by Mario Andretti when he drove Indianapolis again in 2003.

The sweet spot in age for a racing driver is 25-35 years old. That is even true in motorsports like NASCAR that may not be as physically demanding as others. Take a look at it, you will see all the greats achieved most of their success and dominance in that age bracket.

VNAF Ace
And IndyCar already has its next generation of stars. Marco Andretti and Graham Rahal have won races and are coming into their prime. JR Hildebrand, James Hinchcliffe, Charlie Kimball are starting their 2nd year. AJ Allmendinger was in his 3rd year of Champ Car when he won his 1st race. And all of them are developing cars in a manufacturers race for the first time in their careers.
Click to expand...

The problem is none of those drivers really have a car capable of contending for the win. Allmendinger got a ride with Forsythe that allowed him to shine and challenge Bourdais. Its a shame a driver of Graham Rahal's talent is stuck in subpar equipment. Andretti-Green (Is Green still part of it?) hasn't had competitive cars in years

VNAF Ace
Horsepower doesn't mean everything. You have to consider the power to weight ratio and the drag numbers. The DW12 IndyCar is lighter and has less drag than older IndyCars (including CART IndyCars). It doesn't need 1000 HP to average 230 MPH at Indy. And have you even watched an Indy 500 or a short track race in recent years? The drivers lift the throttle in the turns while racing wheel to wheel with others. When they qualify for the Indy 500, they're running negative wing angles to minimize drag and riding a fine line between making the race and crashing into the wall. And that was with the older IR05. I've seen the new Chevy IndyCars in person at Sears Point Raceway and I can tell you the new 2012 IndyCars look and sound more like CART IndyCars in action. The 2012 IndyCar Series will once again feature turbocharged engines from 3 manufacturers, drivers sliding their cars around turns trying to put all 750 HP down, and the some of best drivers in the world trying to master both oval and road/street racing to win the championship. Looks and sounds like the glory years of CART IndyCar World Series are coming back.
Click to expand...

The current 2012 schedule does look very good. A nice mix of ovals and roadcourses. If they add Road America and Portland to the schedule along with St Louis Gateway oval or Twin Ring Motegi it would be near perfect.

I'm going to have to wait to see the cars in action on track in race conditions before I judge the DW12. It looks something like the NASCAR COTs looked in their first season, boxy and ugly, but hopefully like the changes NASCAR made, with the help of aero kits etc, the cars can start to look better over time.
 
Earth
Today's cars are much faster through the turns but slower down the straights, as confirmed by Mario Andretti when he drove Indianapolis again in 2003.

The sweet spot in age for a racing driver is 25-35 years old. That is even true in motorsports like NASCAR that may not be as physically demanding as others. Take a look at it, you will see all the greats achieved most of their success and dominance in that age bracket.

The problem is none of those drivers really have a car capable of contending for the win. Allmendinger got a ride with Forsythe that allowed him to shine and challenge Bourdais. Its a shame a driver of Graham Rahal's talent is stuck in subpar equipment. Andretti-Green (Is Green still part of it?) hasn't had competitive cars in years

The current 2012 schedule does look very good. A nice mix of ovals and roadcourses. If they add Road America and Portland to the schedule along with St Louis Gateway oval or Twin Ring Motegi it would be near perfect.

I'm going to have to wait to see the cars in action on track in race conditions before I judge the DW12. It looks something like the NASCAR COTs looked in their first season, boxy and ugly, but hopefully like the changes NASCAR made, with the help of aero kits etc, the cars can start to look better over time.
Click to expand...
Wow, just wanted to say props to you Earth for taking the high road and not retaliating after comments were made in an attacking manner. Its nice to see someone who has a disagreement with someone else but can do so in a calm collected non-combative manner. i dont think i could have done the same...
 
I'm not sure who to root for now, what with Rubens joining the fray.

At the same time, I'm not sure if IndyCar is the right fit for a man of Rubens' caliber.
He's one of the guys that BELONGS in F1. He's a freaking legend.
 
Last edited:
scarslasher
At the same time, I'm not sure if IndyCar is the right fit for a man of Rubens' caliber.
He's one of the guys that BELONGS in F1. He's a freaking legend.
Click to expand...

I would rather see him in a series where at least he has a shot to win compared to F1 where Williams is struggling to compete with the mid field. I think he will be fine as only 5/16 races are on ovals, don't think he will be very competitive early but I think he will become competitive towards the end of the season.
 
I really like Rubens, thats why i think Felipe Massa (one of his dearest friends) was right - he should retire. All he can do now is tarnish his brilliant career, he should've retired after Braun GP. oh well, i'll root for him anyways until he becomes a running joke. hopefully he wont
 
lemansfanatic
I really like Rubens, thats why i think Felipe Massa (one of his dearest friends) was right - he should retire. All he can do now is tarnish his brilliant career, he should've retired after Braun GP. oh well, i'll root for him anyways until he becomes a running joke. hopefully he wont
Click to expand...

I think he's just getting old. But if he wants to race, it's in his blood. :sly:
Can't stop that. Can only respect it.
 
Justin
I would rather see him in a series where at least he has a shot to win compared to F1 where Williams is struggling to compete with the mid field. I think he will be fine as only 5/16 races are on ovals, don't think he will be very competitive early but I think he will become competitive towards the end of the season.
Click to expand...

I think Indy is the perfect place for him, being in F1 is pointless unless you're with a top-tier team. Who knows, maybe he'll sell more tickets too.
 
I'll be following Indycar closely this year. I'll be rooting for Barrichelo and Pagenaud. One comes from F1 and is an "old", very experienced and very fast driver. The other comes from - mainly - Sports Cars, is younger and known to be very fast too.
 
I'm sorry for the double post but this is a completely different subject from the post before and is worthy of due attention from the motorsports fan base.

This is UN-BE-LIE-VA-BLE. I can only wonder what would've happened if the incident was more serious, if Will Power was unable for some reason to leave the car and if the fire got bigger.

I wonder what Mrs. Barrichelo will think about his husband entering a series that shows safety standards worthy of the 70's F1 (when drivers could die - and did die - burned to death in their cars).

[YOUTUBEHD]6dawn_FkHbA[/YOUTUBEHD]

Oh and if I'm not mistaken this is at Sebring. I just hope the ALMS safety standards are better than the IZOD IndyCar ones at that track.

Unbelievable ...
 
It's not too bad. Especially when you consider that this happened in 2010.

 
@F1 Fan: Indeed you are right.

However I'd say that what happened at Singapore was more a "design flaw" in the allocation of marshall posts along the track (hope you get what I'm trying to say here) because Kova, in a street track between concrete walls, chose (not sure if he could keep on going for a few more meters or not) the worst possible place to stop a car already in flames. Middle of the S/F straight, directly in front of the pits but with no marshalls close by. If I'm not mistaken it was the Williams pit crew that came to the rescue an gave Kova the extinguisher he used.


This Sebring scene shows a different picture. Shows an elderly marshall (if indeed he was one) barely able to run or even properly carry the fire extinguisher, and dressed like the Marshalls that we see in the pre-war Grand Prix pictures ... meaning ... without any protection.
 
Test session with minimal track workers. Luckily it wasn't the result of an accident that kept Will from exiting the car. Probably was comprised of volunteers since it wasn't an official series event.
 
Hun200kmh
However I'd say that what happened at Singapore was more a "design flaw" in the allocation of marshall posts along the track (hope you get what I'm trying to say here) because Kova, in a street track between concrete walls, chose (not sure if he could keep on going for a few more meters or not) the worst possible place to stop a car already in flames. Middle of the S/F straight, directly in front of the pits but with no marshalls close by. If I'm not mistaken it was the Williams pit crew that came to the rescue an gave Kova the extinguisher he used.
Click to expand...

The fire only started in the final couple of corners - leaving Kovalainen two options - continue into the pit lane or pull over on the track.
He knew that there were more people in the pit lane (including plenty of people without fire-proof clothing such as photographers), so decided it was safer to pull over on the track and attempt to get a fire extinguisher from one of the teams on the pit wall.
So I wouldn't say he stopped in the "worst possible place", as that would have been in the middle of the pitlane.

As you say, it was mostly caused by the lack of marshalls in that area as Kovalainen has said that he was originally looking for marshalls to stop near.
 
This one scared the snot out of me. i remember watching it live with my wife and when the car first caught fire i was just quietly thinking to myself "get out Simmona". then the longer it took the marshalls to over to her i was quietly but vocally saying "get out" but by the end i was doing something i NEVER do, yelling at the TV. I was screaming "Get her out of that ****ing car!!!!" my wife was just sitting the mouth dropped wide open, but not at me, at how long it took to get her out. Even the commentators said the marshalls were way too slow and she couldve easily got killed in this one, she walked away with minor burns on her hands, she was lucky.
Watch the reactions from the crew, they were mad.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=78SIektVOR4
 
Last edited:
^^^ wow, that safety crew (bar one brave guy) was pathetic :eek: 👎


Back to better and more interesting news, this is what this afternoon's live timing has to say, with 1h40 minutes to end the current test session:

http://racecontrol.indycar.com
Code: 
[SIZE="3"][COLOR="Blue"]
Rank		Driver	   Diff.	BL	LL	Gap	TL	BL#
1		R. Barrichello	0	52.2228	55.7159	0	19	18
2		Mike Conway	0.0002	52.2230	52.7313	0.0002	23	18
3		Takuma Sato	0.2790	52.5018	52.5202	0.2788	24	17
4		JR Hildebrand	0.6317	52.8545	53.0844	0.3527	16	14
5		EJ Viso       	1.0535	53.2763	54.8041	0.4218	17	4
6		Tony Kanaan	1.2671	53.4899	58.5788	0.2136	15	14
7		Oriol Servia	1.5328	53.7556	54.0370	0.2657	17	4
8		Ana Beatriz	1.9590	54.1818	54.4426	0.4262	6	3
9		Ed Carpenter	2.8912	55.1140	55.2751	0.9322	20	19
10		Katherine Legge	3.1329	55.3557	55.4220	0.2417	22	21
[/COLOR][/SIZE]
Click to expand...
 
Even though it's only testing, he's been quick off the bat.
 
Cowboys965
I think Indy is the perfect place for him, being in F1 is pointless unless you're with a top-tier team. Who knows, maybe he'll sell more tickets too.
Click to expand...

Pointless? Rubens wasn't in a top team and has landed a pretty good Indycar seat. Almost all ex-F1 drivers go on to race in other series with decent rides..clearly it isn't pointless because simply driving around in a HRT gets you a worldwide profile.
Lets take drivers such as Alex Wurz or David Brabham as examples - never really drove for a top team but their F1 career led to a future career in other motorsports. Was it pointless that neither achieved wins? Nope, clearly it did mean something.

Using the same logic, Indycar is the same - its pointless if you aren't driving for Ganassi or Penske.
 
Ardius
Pointless? Rubens wasn't in a top team and has landed a pretty good Indycar seat. Almost all ex-F1 drivers go on to race in other series with decent rides..clearly it isn't pointless because simply driving around in a HRT gets you a worldwide profile.
Lets take drivers such as Alex Wurz or David Brabham as examples - never really drove for a top team but their F1 career led to a future career in other motorsports. Was it pointless that neither achieved wins? Nope, clearly it did mean something.

Using the same logic, Indycar is the same - its pointless if you aren't driving for Ganassi or Penske.
Click to expand...

I meant staying in F1 after he's out of Williams, that would be pointless. He's already proved himself. And at least in IndyCar, an underdog can still have a chance to win. I don't think we'd see an HRT up front anytime soon.
 
Well, I think it would have been nice to have had a more formal exit from F1 and managed a record 20th season. He could have provided invaluable experience to a team like HRT and while he wouldn't have won a race again, there's still a "point" to helping a small team get somewhere.

And an underdog can win in F1, it just requires very perculiar circumstances..which is no different to Indycar where drivers get lucky with safety cars and retirements.
On a normal day, McLaren/Ferrari/Red Bull/whoever will win in F1. On a normal day in Indycar, Ganassi/Penske will win. Barrichello isn't going to win a race in Indycar without bad luck for the top teams. How is that different to F1?

Certainly though KV is a far better option than HRT - no argument there. But I disagree that its "pointless" or a waste of time to drive for HRT. Especially for a driver like Rubens who very clearly loved the sport very much - the reason he is in Indycar is because he couldn't find a seat in F1...not because he had the choice!
 
Nice article by Jenna Fryer, from the Associated Press, on the arrival of Rubens to the IndyCar world, and its (possible) consequences. Was written yesterday, after the first test session he entered.

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_16016/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=1DlLOC71


I especially love the beginning:

Jenna Fryer
SEBRING, Fla. (AP) - Rubens Barrichello talks modestly about the expectations he has for his first season in the IndyCar Series, and when he says there will be an adjustment period and potential struggles, he sounds rather believable.

Then he gets in the car.
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
Update from IndyCar live timing, today's testing session with litle over one hour to end is this:

Code: 
[SIZE="3"][B][COLOR="Blue"]
Rank	Driver	        Diff.	BL	LL	Gap	TL	BL#
1	D. Franchitti	0	52.1464	57.3833	0	20	10
2	R.Barrichello	0.0151	52.1615	57.1601	0.0151	21	17
3	JR Hildebrand	0.0604	52.2068	52.2068	0.0453	36	36
4	Scott Dixon	0.0757	52.2221	54.9199	0.0153	20	13
5	Takuma Sato	0.2377	52.3841	52.7051	0.1620	31	26
6	Mike Conway	0.4452	52.5916	53.0805	0.2075	10	7
7	E J   Viso	0.5526	52.6990	53.1123	0.1074	22	8
8	Alex Tagliani	0.7844	52.9308	53.3177	0.2318	25	17
9	Charlie Kimball	1.0145	53.1609	53.1609	0.2301	7	7
10	Oriol Servia	1.0817	53.2281	53.9601	0.0672	25	11
11	S. Bourdais	1.2288	53.3752	55.0656	0.1471	36	13
12	Josef Newgarden	1.8801	54.0265	54.0265	0.6513	4	4
13	Tony Kanaan	2.0028	54.1492	54.2107	0.1227	5	1
14	Ed Carpenter	2.3191	54.4655	55.4574	0.3163	5	4[/COLOR][/B]
[/SIZE]

Sooo ... Barrichello is 0,0151 from Franchitti :sly:
 
I'm impressed Barrichello has gotten up to speed that quickly with the Indycar. Hopefully that pace carries into the season. It's nice seeing Franchitti, Power and Dixon battle year after year for the title and maybe Barrichello can get into that battle too.

Edit: Just saw on the ticker on the bottom of SPEED that Luca Filippi has signed a deal to race a second Rahal-Letterman-Lanigan car starting with the Indy 500.

And source....
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-filippi-inks-rahal-deal-beginning-at-indy-500/
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest Posts

Back