2016 Virgin Australia Supercars Championship - Results and TalkTouring Cars 

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Nissan are introducing the NISMO GT-R at the 12H next year. They will also offer more NISMO packaged cars in the line up. I don't know if that includes Altima.

If GRM do get a new 4-door sedan like Hyundai to play, I doubt a NISMO GT-R or NISMO Z would be on the grid in 2019. A new shape Altima or NISMO Pulsar perhaps?
 
With the approach Supercars take to parity, it's not a very attractive category to new manufacturers.

I know we were bitten hard in the Group C and Group A days buy in this day and age, it certainly is possible to effectively BOP a wide range of different vehicles, which is the direction we need to go. There's just no excuse any more.
I don't really see it as an issue currently.
 
Coverage has started already. Really wish I didn't have to go to work. It's just the utes so I guess I'm likely to see a red flag before I leave in half an hour.
 
Coverage has started already. Really wish I didn't have to go to work. It's just the utes so I guess I'm likely to see a red flag before I leave in half an hour.
There was almost one 4 minutes in.

"Fat Stig eats here" :lol:
As posted in the Oakland Motorsport Ute. That's a big boy in the driver's seat.

Edit: the mountain claims its first casualty. -1 Toyota 86 into the wall up the top.

Edit 2: cool to see a bright green Challenger versus the TCM cars.
 
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Group A had terrible BOP

Yes, that's what I said.

I don't really see it as an issue currently.

It's not an issue if we look at the series for what it is now, for who is involved, etc. But it is an issue if we look at why we aren't seeing new manufacturers stepping up to the category.

There are plenty of brands out there with a motorsport presence, relevant cars and engines, but the Supercars rulebook is structured in such a way that an enormous investment is required just to produce a eligible car, which will still then be faced with an extremely high risk of failure.

Things would have gone very differently for Nissan and Mercedes if they could have run existing powerplants without the need for complicated and expensive development work and I believe that set the scene for many other prospective new entries. Nissan had to shut down an entire powerplant production line just for the V8 Supercar team to get a new set of cylinder heads...that's not the sort thing that you should have to go through just to run a car in a race series. Definitely not in 2016.

Fully bespoke and unique racers may have been what set the trends for many years, but it just doesn't make any sense in this day and age.

We have the option of turbocharged V6's very soon, but if I remember correctly, they also have to be to a specific capacity (pretty sure it was 3.75 litres). Why are we over complicating things just for the sake of keeping everything "Supercars only?"

Look at the many brands with that could use engines raced in GT3 to power Supercars relevant cars. Instead of appealing to those prospective entrants (and most importantly of all, the money they bring to the teams), we're sending a message that to run in Supercars, you need to jump through all these hoops and then you'll probably still be nowhere in the end.

I really believe that something has to change, because the money has to come from somewhere! I know it goes against "the old days", but why are we making things so bloody hard?
 
The major problem is, Holden(T8) once again, have a head start in developing their Gen2 chassis and engine package. PRA & DJRTP will have to play catch up. GRM, if they get a new manufacturer, will be smart as mentioned, by readying the engine for 2018.

Nissan will continue to develop the Altima. Yet, when/if they decide to change that package they'll be 2 years behind Holden. This time, it's not as bad as them trying to catch up after 20years of Ford and Holden V8 development. They'll still be behind though. Unless, they prepare that package(they won't make the same mistake twice) ready for 2019.

Another thing is, nowhere else can cars like these be raced. If a driver wants to race a Super GT car, they have to go to Japan. A DTM, you have to go to Germany. We still don't know the full Gen2 regulations. Hence, some manufacturers are still skeptical.

Lastly, Volvo. They beat Nissan and Erebus. How? Smartly. Developed the engine in 2013 and came out swinging. Still beating Nissan last year and now. Had Nissan taken the category seriously(by their own admission) from the jump, the car would have been just as quick as the S60 out the gate.
 
Jeez, Scott Pie was lucky to make it out after that spin at McPhillamy.

And just as I sit down and get comfortable Whincup causes a red flag. :irked:
 
I like how Courtney, Johnson and some of the commentators are honest with how scary the first couple of laps are. Johnson saying it was a bit hairy even in the 86 this morning.

That Altima looks good with the black wheels.

Edit: Hmm, VW Amarok V6 signage...
 
More money for the teams, is a good start. With both brands already possessing reliably proven race motors, surely there is a more effective way to distribute funds than struggling to turn something that works into something else.
Pretty sure they were still operating on the basis that the engine had to be 5 liters. Nissan doesn't have anything in that size.
 
More money for the teams, is a good start. With both brands already possessing reliably proven race motors, surely there is a more effective way to distribute funds than struggling to turn something that works into something else.
And remember, HWA had to detune the AMG 6.2. Volvo built up their old 4.4, which was easier to do.

The Holden V6 is a 3.8TT.
I'm sure things will be amended
http://www.supercars.com/news/championship/future-outlined-with-release-of-draft-gen2-guidelines/
V8 Supercars has completed the first draft technical regulations of the 2017 Gen2 Supercar. The draft regulations outline the next phase of growth for the sport by broadening the range of engine and body configurations that will be eligible to race from 2017.

The Gen2 Supercar is designed to be more relevant to more manufacturers, race teams, sponsors and fans while continuing V8 Supercars' promise of providing fans with the high octane and ultra-competitive characteristics of the current Championship.

Significantly, any new engine or body shape will have to meet existing engine power outputs, aerodynamic guidelines and technical specifications that produce the spectacular, tight racing enjoyed today.

The Gen2 program provides the flexibility for teams to compete with a different body style or engine capacity, if and when they choose. It is expected the majority of teams will remain in their current configurations in the foreseeable future.

"The far more complex Car of the Future program was the first step in opening the garage door and as a result we now have Nissan, Erebus and Volvo as a very important part of our sport," V8 Supercars CEO James Warburton said.

"Gen2 is another option for manufacturers and our race teams should they choose at a time that suits them, if at all. It is not a new direction or wholesale change."

The Gen2 platform allows more flexibility in terms of body style and engine configuration, provided they comply with the regulations. The V8 engine, which has been mandated for more than 20 years, is also expected to continue as the dominant power plant of the sport.

V8S2015-BRAND-Gen-2-Infographic-Banner-1200x6281.png


The Gen2 Supercar program was unveiled last November last with full implementation due by January 1 2017. The initial draft guidelines has met the first program milestone.

"We made it clear when we announced the Gen2 strategy that there will be no compromise in power, competition or technical parity," Warburton said.

"The category in 2017 will be exactly what it is now. Fast, loud and fiercely competitive. This opens the same garage door a little wider and future proofs the sport.

"As has been the case with Nissan, Volvo and Mercedes we have proven beyond doubt these core ingredients can be transferred from one make to another."

The base guidelines stipulate the car must be publicly available for sale in Australia, is front engine, right hand drive and a full four-seat configuration in the road going version.

"From our many discussions it is crystal clear manufacturers want to go racing with their DNA embedded on the inside and outside of the car they choose to race," Mr Warburton said.

"They want to use their engine technology and body aesthetics. These regulations allow for that over time without forgoing the promise of fast, fearsome and loud touring cars."

The race car must be rear wheel drive and accurately reflect the look of the road car, retaining the essential DNA of the sport. All cars will use the existing Car of the Future chassis and control components, and be subject to current engine and aero parity rules.

The regulations state the model must have a minimum production volume of 5000 cars of the same body shape worldwide.

It must be powered by an engine configuration, be that 4, 6, or 8 cylinder (or other) that does not exceed the Supercars accumulated engine power output and weighted average.

Significantly, the Manufacturer Homologation Guidelines mandate a maximum accumulated engine power output and weighted average that remains at the same range it is today.

With five different makes and five different engines already competing in V8 Supercars under a uniform chassis, the possible inclusion of more manufacturers, models and engines is a progression of the more complex Car of the Future program.

The draft regulations were prepared with extensive input from Steve Hallam, Ross Stone, Derek Crabb, Craig Hasted and lead by V8 Supercars Sporting and Technical Director David Stuart.

The document has been reviewed by the V8 Supercars Board and the V8 Supercars Commission. The regulations will be finalised by the final quarter of 2015.
 
I'm looking at it from which manufacturers Barry may tick as potentials.

Passat or Jetta 2.5T?
Audi RS3, RS4, RS6
Lexus IS

If Barry is looking at wheelbases and engine power to make the transition and testing smoother, it says a lot.
I wouldn't be so quick to disregard models outside sedans. Clearly there is an ideal relationship between the wheelbase and the engine power - and probably a couple of other variables - and if that relationship can be found in a four-door sedan with a V8 engine, then no doubt it can be found in other combinations. It's just a question of distilling it down into a formula.
 
Aww dang. The hit by Golding.

Just saw your quote
I wouldn't be so quick to disregard models outside sedans. Clearly there is an ideal relationship between the wheelbase and the engine power - and probably a couple of other variables - and if that relationship can be found in a four-door sedan with a V8 engine, then no doubt it can be found in other combinations. It's just a question of distilling it down into a formula.

I'm not disregarding other body styles. Garry said he wants to do a 4-door sedan (Edit: they have found a sedan)
“We’re talking to a manufacturer for 2018,” Rogers told Speedcafe.com.

“It’s in its very early stages, it’s probably only five percent through the process, but it’s light at the end of the tunnel.

“It’s too late for 2017, but we’re confident that we can get something together for 2018.

“Whether that is with the people we’re currently talking to or somebody else, we believe absolutely that we’ll have something together for 2018.”

GRM has already undertaken preliminary engineering work around introducing a new marque, evaluating a number of engines and body shapes before commencing discussions.

Although declining to divulge the manufacturer in question, Rogers confirmed that GRM has targeted a four-door sedan with an engine that will take advantage of the new Gen2 regulations.

“Going through the regs, with the experience with the Volvo on the chassis side, we know what to look for,” he explained.

“So we gave our engineering group a bit of a task, going through the list of cars that are sold here now and what will be sold here in the near future.

“We’ve looked at everything from the bore and stroke of the engine to the wheelbase, comparing it to what we think is the perfect thing for the Supercars chassis.

“The boys, led by Richard (Hollway), have identified a car that is as near perfect as you could get to fit those rules.

“The body, taking into account the overhangs and all the rest of it, is even better than the Volvo and one of the engine variants looks like it wouldn’t be too stressed achieving the targets.

“We contacted that manufacturer and opened discussions with them and that’s currently where it’s up to.”
 
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You've lost me then. You say they should have used something they already had, but they didn't have anything. So they did what they had to do.

Sorry for not being clear enough. Have been posting on the phone through the day.

My point is that forcing the use of a 5 litre motor makes the series unattractive to prospective entrants, especially when we're talking about a series that is not a true parity series.

Merc with the 6.3, BMW have a 4.4, Lexus has a V8 in the RCF and didn't Nissan have a V8 race program a few years back?

The same can be said for the existing brands - have you looked into the cost differences between a Supercar motor and a NASCAR V8? Why haven't we been running those from the start? (Serious question, there might be a reasonable answer that I hadn't considered).
 
My point is that forcing the use of a 5 litre motor makes the series unattractive to prospective entrants, especially when we're talking about a series that is not a true parity series.
Which is why they are changing it.
Merc with the 6.3
6.2L ;)
didn't Nissan have a V8 race program a few years back?
They have a 4.0L V8 which was used in Super GT I think before the DTM specs went into effect. I think they still use this engine or one similar in LMP2. (I could be way off with that though, I don't follow LPM racing closely)
Why haven't we been running those from the start?
Pretty out dated for one. I don't think we should be looking at NASCAR for innovation.
 
Which is why they are changing it.

I'm really hoping that it all works out for the best. I worry that their parity measures might be a bit too overcomplicated, but we'll see what happens!


Right you are. Thanks, Mercedes. I'm a BMW guy and it annoyed me to no end when the once sensible number codes suddenly didn't mean a thing, but I still forget that others have gone down the same route!

They have a 4.0L V8 which was used in Super GT I think before the DTM specs went into effect. I think they still use this engine or one similar in LMP2. (I could be way off with that though, I don't follow LPM racing closely)

I think you're right about the LMP2 motor. That was likely what I was thinking about. IIRC, the GT1 GT-R was a V8?

Pretty out dated for one. I don't think we should be looking at NASCAR for innovation.

I don't mean so much for now and the future, but certainly in the past. A 600hp motor that is reliable enough to turn over 8000rpm for hours at a time....and how cheap!

But on a similar point, Ford have developed a V6 turbo for the Ford GT and their Daytona Prototypes. The most sensible result would be for them to just be able to transplant one of those with changes kept to a minimum. I feel like this should be the goal - making things as easy as possible for new manufacturers to get involved.
 
Watching "Bathurst Legends", am I the only one who thinks that it's hilarious to hear Tomas Mezera using Australianisms with his Czech accent? He uses "bloody" at least once a sentence.

He always said he didn't want another series to take focus away from V8s.
And now, apparently, things have changed. He probably feels that he has (or soon will have) achieved everything that he can achieve or wants to achieve, and so other series hold some appeal to him when they did not previously.
 
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Watching "Bathurst Legends", am I the only one who thinks that it's hilarious to hear Tomas Mezera using Australianisms with his Czech accent? He uses "bloody" at least once a sentence.

Was watching it too. 'Bloody' this, 'bloody' that, every second word was 'bloody' haha. He did seem a bit angry about his opportunities to drive with Brock, and his reasons seemed pretty fair enough too.
 
Strange that Luke Youlden said that his and Coulthard's car doesn't feel that great to drive, despite being fast, because from the on board footage it looks so smooth to drive.
 
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