2017 Formula 1 VTB Russian Grand PrixFormula 1 

So how long before Renault drops Palmer? Another crash, and he was again more than a second off Hulkenberg in qualifying. With a car that seems capable of taking points surely they can't afford to keep him if they want to do well in the constructors title.
 
aarror
So how long before Renault drops Palmer? Another crash, and he was again more than a second off Hulkenberg in qualifying. With a car that seems capable of taking points surely they can't afford to keep him if they want to do well in the constructors title.
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He is a talented driver, but the Hulk is significantly better. Question is -- who are they going to replace him with?
 
If they're planning on swapping Palmer mid-season, Sirotkin is really the only alternative unless they want to go down the Nasr/Mehri/Haryanto route - which I doubt.
 
sems4arsenal
Risky move. Knowing his luck, next year's Renault will be worse than Mclaren.
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At which point McLaren come good.

Jimlaad43
If they're planning on swapping Palmer mid-season, Sirotkin is really the only alternative unless they want to go down the Nasr/Mehri/Haryanto route - which I doubt.
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Maybe Pierre Gasly. I know he's a Red Bull driver and Renault is a factory team, but they could do a deal where Gasly gets a drive for some experience and then Renault picks up Sainz for 2018.
 
I don't think Red Bull would be that hasty to get rid of Sainz. As much as Red Bull are running Tag Heuer Renault engines, I doubt they'd be able to wangle a Mercedes/Manor deal like last year.
 
Well Red Bull have 5 drivers to try and fit into 4 seats next season, and any one of them would be a huge upgrade on Palmer. You'd think Renault as their engine supplier could request first dibs on the odd one out.
 
sems4arsenal
He is a talented driver, but the Hulk is significantly better. Question is -- who are they going to replace him with?
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What about Alain Prost's son, Nicolas Prost. I could very much see him switching from Formula E, to Formula One, while Alain is attached to the Renault F1 team:cheers:
 
Doubt it, he's been thoroughly outclassed by Buemi throughout Formula E's seasons. That said, I don't see anyone going from FE to F1, it's a place for people who are either done with, or missed their chance to join, F1.
 
Carlos is ready to move on....he knows it will be a while before a slot opens up in RBR.
Renault would have 2 similar drivers, and development would come quicker, cause the car/s are on track more.
The deal could be done and the sooner the better.
 
aarror
So how long before Renault drops Palmer? Another crash, and he was again more than a second off Hulkenberg in qualifying. With a car that seems capable of taking points surely they can't afford to keep him if they want to do well in the constructors title.
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The car isn't that capable of points, its like a more horrible version of the Mercedes (no surprise since Bob Bell is at the helm), it's a great car in quali for what it is and especially in Hulk's hands. However, in race trim it falters greatly. I mean if it weren't for the ninth place in China the two of them would probably be equal in race form and even with that, they're not all that far off. Not saying Palmer deserves to stay but I don't agree the Renault is that good.
 
Jimlaad43
I don't think Baku is that bad of a circuit. Once you're past the 90 degree bends its really cool. Sochi has one good corner - turn 3, a couple of worthy ones - Turns 1, 2, 13. And then the rest of the track is so samey it's dull. They've managed to make a grid city street track from a blank canvas.
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I think the merit of the circuit lies in the way it's so different to everything else on the calendar. We have seen the cars get their speed in different ways, and the drivers are struggling to extract consistently-fast lap times.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
The car isn't that capable of points, its like a more horrible version of the Mercedes (no surprise since Bob Bell is at the helm), it's a great car in quali for what it is and especially in Hulk's hands. However, in race trim it falters greatly. I mean if it weren't for the ninth place in China the two of them would probably be equal in race form and even with that, they're not all that far off. Not saying Palmer deserves to stay but I don't agree the Renault is that good.
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I'm not sure what any of that has to do with my post. The car is a fringe point scorer, so having 2 drivers capable of pulling off a big result is surely better than one. Having Palmer in the second seat is like tying one arm behind their back.
 
aarror
I'm not sure what any of that has to do with my post. The car is a fringe point scorer, so having 2 drivers capable of pulling off a big result is surely better than one. Having Palmer in the second seat is like tying one arm behind their back.
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Fringe, so long as one of the faster six teams beating it don't have a car in contention, that's my point. If the car was a sure thing I'd see plenty of justification to drop Palmer. The fact of the matter is, Hulk hasn't delivered but one time out of 3 decent quali, while Palmer finishes either behind his team mate or a few places off.

The car isn't a stellar performer and it's only fringe because the other Williams is occupied by a rookie worse than Palmer.

Once again if the car actually could reflect what it does on Saturday, I'd find a drop clause in Palmer's contract after this GP and replace him with the Russian. Seems simple, but the problem is you can't say that the car would be doing any better on Sunday (where it actually matters) if someone other than Palmer was in that seat.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Fringe, so long as one of the faster six teams beating it don't have a car in contention, that's my point. If the car was a sure thing I'd see plenty of justification to drop Palmer. The fact of the matter is, Hulk hasn't delivered but one time out of 3 decent quali, while Palmer finishes either behind his team mate or a few places off.

The car isn't a stellar performer and it's only fringe because the other Williams is occupied by a rookie worse than Palmer.

Once again if the car actually could reflect what it does on Saturday, I'd find a drop clause in Palmer's contract after this GP and replace him with the Russian. Seems simple, but the problem is you can't say that the car would be doing any better on Sunday (where it actually matters) if someone other than Palmer was in that seat.
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I don't even know where to start...

Arguably being on the fringe of the points it's even more important to have 2 drivers capable of scoring points. Even Stroll will probably grab some points in the Williams this year since it's so fast, but Palmer certainly won't. And while only Hulk will be scoring for Renault, he'll have to battle both Force India, Toro Rosso, and HAAS drivers for the final points. While those teams will have 2 bullets in the gun, Renault will only have 1.

As for doing better on Sunday: If Palmer (1 second per lap slower than Hulkenberg) is replaced by a driver only half a second a lap slower than Hulk, then that driver would have qualified 11th instead of 16th at Sochi. And those 5 places could make all the difference in the race.
 
aarror
I don't even know where to start...

Arguably being on the fringe of the points it's even more important to have 2 drivers capable of scoring points. Even Stroll will probably grab some points in the Williams this year since it's so fast, but Palmer certainly won't. And while only Hulk will be scoring for Renault, he'll have to battle both Force India, Toro Rosso, and HAAS drivers for the final points. While those teams will have 2 bullets in the gun, Renault will only have 1.
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They're not even on the fringe, one could argue. Being on the fringe means you have something capable for fighting for 8th-10th in a race without the hope that someone in a faster car breaks down. Right now all they can do is hope that someone breaks down. Neither Nico or Palmer have been incredibly fast in race trim, which is why they've actually been somewhat equal. And why it's easy to point out the car first rather than a driver.

As for doing better on Sunday: If Palmer (1 second per lap slower than Hulkenberg) is replaced by a driver only half a second a lap slower than Hulk, then that driver would have qualified 11th instead of 16th at Sochi. And those 5 places could make all the difference in the race.
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Not with what we've seen so far, considering that in the FI last year, Nico would translate (on a normal or good day) is quali spot to either the same spot in a race finish or one lower. This year we've seen him have decent quali and the end results in a great net loss on race day. Which tells me there is a glaring issue with the car pace wise over a distance than one lap, and thus no driver can remedy that. So what if someone gets 11th on Saturday if they end up coming home 14th. Like I said fix the car, let's see what happens then, if it's the same I'd drop him before season's end.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Like I said fix the car, let's see what happens then, if it's the same I'd drop him before season's end.
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Which would be a fair assessment if this was Palmer's fourth Grand Prix. As it is, he's had more than twenty to his name and this kind of under-performance isn't unusual for him. Given that he already has a year's experience, Renault would be far more justified dropping him mid-season than if he was a rookie.
 
I think LS will show better performances, once they are back in Europe.
A better indication of why Williams chose him for their team, should be on display at tracks he knows.
The first 4 races in F1 are going to tough for any rookie. New tracks and new to the car with only a few dozen laps before each race.
I shall reserve my judgement until the summer break.
 
prisonermonkeys
Which would be a fair assessment if this was Palmer's fourth Grand Prix. As it is, he's had more than twenty to his name and this kind of under-performance isn't unusual for him. Given that he already has a year's experience, Renault would be far more justified dropping him mid-season than if he was a rookie.
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I just said they should drop him, but you rather him drop because he had a year in an equally bad car and didn't perform like you wanted in his rookie year. Now he's running equal in race trim even with his team mate having far better quali, which indicates the car is a problem. I have no issue with Palmer being gone if it weren't for the fact that (obviously with you) it's conformation bias for the most part dictating why people want him gone. While ignoring what I'm actually bringing to the conversation the car.

Once again if the car was good and it was performing relative to where it qualifies, I'd see no problem with them getting rid of him. The car doesn't it's shown in three straight races, we'll see what we say in a few hours time once the fourth race in done and gone. I mean they are running a new wing because of exactly the reason I gave, horrible race pace.
 
The Russians have decided to scrap their plans to hold a night race in future. Which I think is a good thing - while the circuit might be dull, I love that shot of the cars going down the main straight with the snowy mountains in the background.

LMSCorvetteGT2
Now he's running equal in race trim even with his team mate having far better quali, which indicates the car is a problem.
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I have often felt that a bad car is far more representative of a driver's ability than a good one. Case in point, McLaren in 2009. I think 2009 was Hamilton's best year because he had to dig deep, rally the team around him and get the most out of a car that was $30 million of ballast. If you listed all of the skills needed for a racing driver, it doesn't start and end with speed. Indeed, take the speed out of the equation and you get a pretty good look at the full complement of skills.
 
I hate the concept of "Night Races"
Why hold races at night just for european viewers, if they are fans of the sport they will watch it when its on.
I have to get up at 4am for the canadian GP.
 
Grayfox
I hate the concept of "Night Races"
Why hold races at night just for european viewers, if they are fans of the sport they will watch it when its on.
I have to get up at 4am for the canadian GP.
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Because that's the primary market, also ad revenue for the broadcasters.
 
prisonermonkeys
I have often felt that a bad car is far more representative of a driver's ability than a good one. Case in point, McLaren in 2009. I think 2009 was Hamilton's best year because he had to dig deep, rally the team around him and get the most out of a car that was $30 million of ballast. If you listed all of the skills needed for a racing driver, it doesn't start and end with speed. Indeed, take the speed out of the equation and you get a pretty good look at the full complement of skills.
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I'd agree with you on this, if it weren't for the realistic issue of race trim pace and the fact that Renault recognizes it and claims it's effecting both drivers. If the car was just mid tier and results weren't showing for a driver, then sure get rid of him if you can and promote someone else.

So while I agree, you've yet to still factor in what I'm saying which is why I've kept repeating it. Cause no one has acknowledged it because no one wants to in regards to Palmer. I don't like Palmer but at least I can be objective about the situation.

As for the night race thing, too bad from a time perspective for me. I rather not have to set my alarm to wake up in four hours to watch a race, that if at night I could be watching or have watched.
 

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