2017 IMSA WeatherTech Sportscar Championship - General Season Discussion ThreadSports Cars 

  • Thread starter IforceV8
  • 2,450 comments
  • 126,792 views
Yea I know it's only 3 hours in but I was curious if any rival teams are still close, stuff like that. I guess it's too soon to really know how it's gonna go
 
I know this has been touched on slightly in the Rolex 24 thread, but I think it's worth bringing here as well. Since the Gibsons were turned down (IIRC due to RPM limits) for the sake of reliability, could the gap between the Caddy's and the spec P2s if they run full RPM? If the Gibson can reliably run Sebring at full power, it seems like the gap would be closer than it currently is. I now that everyone talked about the BoP, but it's still hard to gauge the outright power difference if the Cadillac engine was running at full power and the Gibson wasn't.
 
AnthonyD1993
I know this has been touched on slightly in the Rolex 24 thread, but I think it's worth bringing here as well. Since the Gibsons were turned down (IIRC due to RPM limits) for the sake of reliability, could the gap between the Caddy's and the spec P2s if they run full RPM? If the Gibson can reliably run Sebring at full power, it seems like the gap would be closer than it currently is. I now that everyone talked about the BoP, but it's still hard to gauge the outright power difference if the Cadillac engine was running at full power and the Gibson wasn't.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think if Gibson can run them at full RPM, they should be much more competitive. Looking forward to see what the Gibsons can do at Sebring. 👍
 
AnthonyD1993
I know this has been touched on slightly in the Rolex 24 thread, but I think it's worth bringing here as well. Since the Gibsons were turned down (IIRC due to RPM limits) for the sake of reliability, could the gap between the Caddy's and the spec P2s if they run full RPM? If the Gibson can reliably run Sebring at full power, it seems like the gap would be closer than it currently is. I now that everyone talked about the BoP, but it's still hard to gauge the outright power difference if the Cadillac engine was running at full power and the Gibson wasn't.
Click to expand...

You bring up a point I completely forgot. That does explain a lot, doesn't it? Impressive, then, that the Rebellion split the Caddies in qualifying, but couldn't match race pace at all.
Regardless, I am very interested to see the prototypes at Sebring. Daytona always has a special set up we don't see anywhere else. You can have a car set up for the banking and the long straights, and get away with the infield section without too much compromise. Sebring is a much more traditional circuit, I'd like to think the pack will get at least a little closer together.
I'm also sure that some of these teams used the 24 as a large test session. I think we'll get there with the new cars.

God knows what's going to happen when we get to Long Beach, though. :lol:
 
flip55
You bring up a point I completely forgot. That does explain a lot, doesn't it? Impressive, then, that the Rebellion split the Caddies in qualifying, but couldn't match race pace at all.
Regardless, I am very interested to see the prototypes at Sebring. Daytona always has a special set up we don't see anywhere else. You can have a car set up for the banking and the long straights, and get away with the infield section without too much compromise. Sebring is a much more traditional circuit, I'd like to think the pack will get at least a little closer together.
I'm also sure that some of these teams used the 24 as a large test session. I think we'll get there with the new cars.

God knows what's going to happen when we get to Long Beach, though. :lol:
Click to expand...
That's kind of what I was thinking. Rebellion having one of the strongest lineups in the whole grid certainly helped them along with their laps. But my guess is that Gibson didn't feel confident with the engine at Daytona yet and would rather test it at speed in actual completion at Sebring or another track on the schedule. The RPM sweep at other tracks may not strain them as much, so they may be able to run full song soon. I think it may be closer with the Gibson giving it everything it has.
Also, Yes to the test session. ESM was just happy to log laps since they started late, and the Riley was happy to log laps with its development. They'll probably be faster as time goes.
Long Beach is Long Beach so that'll just be a good old crapshoot like it is every year. :lol:
 
That was another epic ending to a Daytona 24h. The winning margins were crazy and you were kept engrossed until the flag dropped. There was also humour in how often a PC was seen facing the wrong way and the frequency of the FCY they caused. How old are the Oreca PC cars?

I was hoping to see Mazda and Lexus have a very strong race and was so disappointed when it fell apart for them with the burning gorgeous #55 Mazda being the low-point. Speaking of gorgeous cars, a Cadillac victory was thoroughly deserved although the #90 Riley Multimatic kept them honest.

As always GT is massively entertaining with amazingly close racing right through the 2 classes. I was hoping for a win for the new Porsche 911 RSR but congratulations to Ford on another 24h victory.

It really is great having sportscars back in action.
 
This was a good initial outing for Acura. 5th and 11th out of 25 cars isn't terrible. Both cars led multiple times over night, and if the 93 hadn't ran into trouble towards the end there, they both had a chance to finish in the top 5. Will be interesting to watch them this season. I'll bet on at least one victory.
 
Thoughts on the new manufacturers in GTD:

Acura - First race ever for it and its already competitive. Great, great start for them. 👍 Easily have winning potential.

Lexus - Has a decent chance at a win. They were leading during the night before they began to have problems (tire ripping a fender off, and then the hood trying to fly), and the car was actually doing pretty good for its first race at Daytona.

Mercedes - While it lacked speed at Daytona, its downforce will make it an absolute rocket at the rest of the tracks for this season. Mercedes GT3 domination has come to IMSA! :D Really looking forward to what Riley can do with it.
 
Last edited:
I looked at the CSV file from Daytona and grabbed a rough avg of the top 30 trap speeds for the P class.

DPi
Cad 10- 195 mph
Cad 31- 195
Cad 5 - 194
Nis 22- 191 (car had 2 laps over 195 with Hartley then the rest around 191)
Maz 70- 191
Maz 55- 189
Nis 2- 188

P2 Gibson's
Ore 81- 191
Lig 52- 190
Ore 13-190
Ril 90- 190
Ore 85- 189

The ACO should be happy, and Ligier should be happy they have closed the speed gap to Oreca. It would have been nice to have a spec Dallara to compare them to the rest of the P2's.

The DPi column speaks for itself, and Fox sports and NASCAR enjoyed a nice bump and got their cross promotion.
 
IforceV8
I looked at the CSV file from Daytona and grabbed a rough avg of the top 30 trap speeds for the P class.

DPi
Cad 10- 195 mph
Cad 31- 195
Cad 5 - 194
Nis 22- 191 (car had 2 laps over 195 with Hartley then the rest around 191)
Maz 70- 191
Maz 55- 189
Nis 2- 188

P2 Gibson's
Ore 81- 191
Lig 52- 190
Ore 13-190
Ril 90- 190
Ore 85- 189

The ACO should be happy, and Ligier should be happy they have closed the speed gap to Oreca. It would have been nice to have a spec Dallara to compare them to the rest of the P2's.

The DPi column speaks for itself, and Fox sports and NASCAR enjoyed a nice bump and got their cross promotion.
Click to expand...
If the Cadillac's weren't present it would've been a more equal fight between the DPi's and LMP2's. I think. Peg them back a bit and I think we're good. We'll find out at Sebring though what the regular season will look like, since Daytona essentially means nothing to the rest of the year (repeated too often but its true).
 
catamount39
If the Cadillac's weren't present it would've been a more equal fight between the DPi's and LMP2's. I think. Peg them back a bit and I think we're good. We'll find out at Sebring though what the regular season will look like, since Daytona essentially means nothing to the rest of the year (repeated too often but its true).
Click to expand...
If the Cadillacs werent there the race would have been a 1 hr highlight show on FS2 at 2am on a Wed like the WEC is.:D

I'm worried what affect this his on other P team entries and DPi efforts. Faith in the IMSA technical people has to be pretty low today because despite all of their claims about data and windtunnel testing they were way off with Cadillac. If people on internet forums can see the sector times from the Roar and see that something wasnt right how did IMSA miss it?

TF hat on- AXR is the NASCAR home team, owned and controlled by former front office people. Gordon is the golden boy and with his job at Fox and the endless talk about him during the race. Boys have it it and rubbin is racin son seemed to be the theme of the day that was playing to a NASCAR audience and there was no way anybody else was going to win that race. TF hat off :P

:cheers:
 
IforceV8
If the Cadillacs werent there the race would have been a 1 hr highlight show on FS2 at 2am on a Wed like the WEC is.:D

I'm worried what affect this his on other P team entries and DPi efforts. Faith in the IMSA technical people has to be pretty low today because despite all of their claims about data and windtunnel testing they were way off with Cadillac. If people on internet forums can see the sector times from the Roar and see that something wasnt right how did IMSA miss it?

TF hat on- AXR is the NASCAR home team, owned and controlled by former front office people. Gordon is the golden boy and with his job at Fox and the endless talk about him during the race. Boys have it it and rubbin is racin son seemed to be the theme of the day that was playing to a NASCAR audience and there was no way anybody else was going to win that race. TF hat off :P

:cheers:
Click to expand...
That tin foil induced theory though. :P

Am I the only one who would actually be okay with IMSA dropping P as well and just having a large GTLM and GTD field? As much as I love the DPi's, the GT action is SO much more dramatic and awesome.
 
catamount39
That tin foil induced theory though. :P

Am I the only one who would actually be okay with IMSA dropping P as well and just having a large GTLM and GTD field? As much as I love the DPi's, the GT action is SO much more dramatic and awesome.
Click to expand...
Ask that again at the end of the year after we have a full season of DPi.
 
I think before people get too bent out of shape about the BOP in DPi, I suggest we wait for a couple more events before really making a call.

Daytona is a very unique circuit, and rewards certain performance characteristics. Other tracks like Sebring, or Leguna Seca, or Watkins Glen, are quite different. If the Caddys are still miles ahead after a variety of circuits, then let's complain. Until then, let's wait.

I love a conspiracy as much as the next guy, but find it tough to believe that IMSA would shoot themselves in the foot by being funny with the BOP just for a quick publicity stunt at the cost of the long term manufacturer interest.
 
twitcher
I think before people get too bent out of shape about the BOP in DPi, I suggest we wait for a couple more events before really making a call.
Click to expand...
The numbers I posted speak for themselves, this isnt #fakenews. Best laps 5-1:36.2, 10-1:36.3, 31-1:36.7 Only Hartley in the 22 managed to run a 1:37.8 before they turned down the boost and switched to the long game. No other DPi ran a lap under 1:39.

twitcher
Daytona is a very unique circuit, and rewards certain performance characteristics. Other tracks like Sebring, or Leguna Seca, or Watkins Glen, are quite different. If the Caddys are still miles ahead after a variety of circuits, then let's complain. Until then, let's wait.
Click to expand...
They were faster in every sector by .3 sec so that argument doesnt stick.Fast in the traps and slow in the infield, OK, but everywhere? The Caddy 6.2L is closer to 650hp instead of the 600 they claimed in would be. W/O a power reduction they be just as fast at Sebring. I expect at least a 1.5mm air restrictor reduction at Sebring.

twitcher
I love a conspiracy as much as the next guy, but find it tough to believe that IMSA would shoot themselves in the foot by being funny with the BOP just for a quick publicity stunt at the cost of the long term manufacturer interest.
Click to expand...
Dont forget who is calling the shots here, the same people that thought up the chase, caution clock, and this new segment points mess.:lol:

Hopefully the word today from HQ to the P teams is we hope you understand why we did it, why we needed the exposure ,and we will take care of you the rest of the way.;)
 
Could it be that the Cadillacs are basically the WEC winning Porsche with a big Cadi engine in the back?(just like how Oreca's 05 was nothing more then Rebellions "R-One" in P2 form)? Remember that the bae underneath is built by Dallara, the same company that has been making all of the tubs on Audi's P1 cars.

IforceV8
Hopefully the word today from HQ to the P teams is we hope you understand why we did it, why we needed the exposure ,and we will take care of you the rest of the way.;)
Click to expand...

You love trolling this thread with the NASCAR conspiracy theories, don't you? Ever since the merger, all there ever is the "Evil NASCAR is doing this" nonsense with you. I know you love that tinfoil hat of yours, but I'm warning you that's gonna do you no good when it starts raining heavy.
 
RACECAR
Could it be that the Cadillacs are basically the WEC winning Porsche with a big Cadi engine in the back?(just like how Oreca's 05 was nothing more then Rebellions "R-One" in P2 form)? Remember that the bae underneath is built by Dallara, the same company that has been making all of the tubs on Audi's P1 cars.



You love trolling this thread with the NASCAR conspiracy theories, don't you? Ever since the merger, all there ever is the "Evil NASCAR is doing this" nonsense with you. I know you love that tinfoil hat of yours, but I'm warning you that's gonna do you no good when it starts raining heavy.
Click to expand...
I noticed he ignored the whole post I put in here and the one you put in the Rolex 24 thread about the Gibson having the RPM limit that put it down on power as well. The fact that Gibson asked teams to not let the spec cars run the engines at full power certainly had an impact on their pace. Or that he keeps talking about the massive improvement the Cadillac saw in the race but ignores that the Nissan also had a big jump as well. Or the fact that the Caddy was the car that had the most development out of all the DPi machines. If the Gibson runs the full RPM at Sebring and still gets slaughtered due to lap time gap, he could maybe say he has a point. But my guess is that everyone else will see a jump because everyone else will see a lap time improvement from extra development.
 
RACECAR
Could it be that the Cadillacs are basically the WEC winning Porsche with a big Cadi engine in the back?(just like how Oreca's 05 was nothing more then Rebellions "R-One" in P2 form)? Remember that the bae underneath is built by Dallara, the same company that has been making all of the tubs on Audi's P1 cars.
Click to expand...
Having a secret NASCAR backed hybrid system installed would explain why the wind tunnel and engine dyno tests were so far off.:lol: If anybody knows how to cheat it is Gary Nelson based on his years catching them. The Dallara/Audi connection ended in 2013 BTW. Audi switched to a company called YCOM to build the chassis in 2014.


RACECAR
You love trolling this thread with the NASCAR conspiracy theories, don't you? Ever since the merger, all there ever is the "Evil NASCAR is doing this" nonsense with you. I know you love that tinfoil hat of yours, but I'm warning you that's gonna do you no good when it starts raining heavy.
Click to expand...
It's too cold to rain here today, but I have seen some snowflakes. They must be spraying the clouds again.💡

AnthonyD1993
I noticed he ignored the whole post I put in here and the one you put in the Rolex 24 thread about the Gibson having the RPM limit that put it down on power as well. The fact that Gibson asked teams to not let the spec cars run the engines at full power certainly had an impact on their pace.
Click to expand...
I ignored you because you dont know what the hell you are talking about. The BOP table was created AFTER the request came from Gibson about the engines.

AnthonyD1993
Or that he keeps talking about the massive improvement the Cadillac saw in the race but ignores that the Nissan also had a big jump as well. Or the fact that the Caddy was the car that had the most development out of all the DPi machines.
Click to expand...
I would have been worried if the Nissan didnt improve considering they spend a day at the test trying to get their laptop to talk to the car before it would start at the Roar. The Caddy program was on track testing in October when the Nissan program was still being designed.

AnthonyD1993
Or the fact that the Caddy was the car that had the most development out of all the DPi machines. If the Gibson runs the full RPM at Sebring and still gets slaughtered due to lap time gap, he could maybe say he has a point. But my guess is that everyone else will see a jump because everyone else will see a lap time improvement from extra development.
Click to expand...
There is no doubt that Cadillac is way ahead of the other DPi's, but this is not a open category. Good or bad they have to use BOP to control the costs. The baseline for the BOP was supposed to be the Gibson, bigly fail on that one.
 
It is my opinion that Jeff Gordon winning is a huge thing for IMSA and the D24. This is a series that is on the precipice of huge growth and anything they can do to attract a greater audience should be done. It's a business.

In that regard, I would not be surprised if GM and the other DPi's were given a slight BoP edge in light of all of the other cars being new. GM being the only one who capitalized on it of course. Egg in the face for IMSA and the manufacturers supporting the idea if a spec P2 won the biggest race the first time out. I do expect to see a better balance going forward and would not be surprised if a Gibson wins Sebring.

All in all, its an exciting new chapter for Sportscar racing in the USA, and I hope the health of the series stays strong for the immediate future.

As for the Taylor/Albuquerque contact, its a race for the lead, Taylor made an attempt at the open door and Albuquerque closed it too late. Taylor seems to go all the way to the grass before he got hit so its not for a lack of trying on his part.
 
IforceV8
The baseline for the BOP was supposed to be the Gibson, bigly fail on that one.
Click to expand...

I don't think you can really tell much by Daytona considering how different the track is on top of the Gibson's being de-tuned at the request of Gibson themselves.

Plus the only team that actually had a snowball's chance (Rebellion) had issues early on.
 
What a phenomenal race.

The Gibson engines are LOUD. When we were sitting in the stands toward T1, you'd have the line on 3 Cadillacs with a Gibson powered car behind them, and you'd CLEARLY hear the wail of the Gibson motor above them all. They did a great job with that spec engine.

Was really surprised and happy to see SoD get third place in that Riley. Weakest car for the track, aero wise, least amount of time testing with the car, etc, and they were able to pull it off.

Also, I was SUPER conflicted at the end of the race. I really, really like WTR, and have friends that work on the AXR team, so you can see the dilemma.
 
Hey fellas, quick question.... what are the good websites out there for IMSA news?

So far I have bookmarked,

Motorsport.com
SC365
Racer
NASportscar
dailysportscar

Any other good ones I should know about? Thanks.
 
mwoodski
What a phenomenal race.

The Gibson engines are LOUD. When we were sitting in the stands toward T1, you'd have the line on 3 Cadillacs with a Gibson powered car behind them, and you'd CLEARLY hear the wail of the Gibson motor above them all. They did a great job with that spec engine.

Was really surprised and happy to see SoD get third place in that Riley. Weakest car for the track, aero wise, least amount of time testing with the car, etc, and they were able to pull it off.

Also, I was SUPER conflicted at the end of the race. I really, really like WTR, and have friends that work on the AXR team, so you can see the dilemma.
Click to expand...
Agreed the Gibson is a beautiful engine. As one of the team owners said at the roar, it's like a throwback to old IndyCar motors. :drool:
 
Wiz
Hey fellas, quick question.... what are the good websites out there for IMSA news?

So far I have bookmarked,

Motorsport.com
SC365
Racer
NASportscar
dailysportscar

Any other good ones I should know about? Thanks.
Click to expand...

I get most of mine from Motorsport.com and Racer. IMSA doesn't generate nearly as much news as bigger series like F1 or NASCAR but if there is news those two generally have it covered. Marshall Pruett covers a lot of IMSA stuff for Racer and does a good job. I just recently found out he has a podcast and it's quite good, highly recommend it.
 
He does a lot of audio only podcasts that are just car noises. That's cool but honestly only for a few minutes before it gets old.
 

Latest Posts

Back