Touring Cars 2019 Virgin Australia Supercars Championship

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Spacegoat, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. R1600Turbo

    R1600Turbo Premium

    Messages:
    49,755
    Location:
    United States
    "It should have been green" isn't an excuse to just go around the safety car if you feel like it. Granted they made a mistake in race control but he should have given them more time to sort it out rather than just go around it.
     
    05XR8 likes this.
  2. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Premium

    Messages:
    9,739
    Location:
    Australia
    Wow. Whincup’s comments in regards to the stewards and their supposed laid back lifestyle were disgusting.
     
    FPV MIC and 05XR8 like this.
  3. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

    Messages:
    1,788
    They didn't really. I don't know if you get the after race show but in it they interviewed the two blokes in Race Control and their explanation was perfectly logical. They just hadn't had time yet to sort out the running order and because of JW's actions they were forced into releasing the other cars earlier than they would have liked to.

    My thoughts on this incident is that JW should have the book thrown at him. Too many times we have cars operating at race speeds trying to get back in line behind the safety car. It's on course for a reason... and while this time there wasn't any danger, as that had passed, the drivers don't know that when they're going flat out trying to not lose places. What if DR's car burst into flames while sitting on the racing line and marshall's had to run out and extinguish it. They couldn't, until after the dipstick trying not to lose time had passed by.

    Marshall's are volunteers that are there to keep drivers safe, they need to be given the respect they deserve by the drivers so they can do their jobs in a safe environment.
     
    05XR8 likes this.
  4. 05XR8

    05XR8

    Messages:
    28,302
    Location:
    Australia
    I solely blame race control because that's their duty, to control the race. For the sake of a time certain finish, they should have had the cars enter pit lane and sort it.

    It is like that Simmons Plains race where teams got half points for a restart. Bad call by the officials. This was obviously a bad call to restart without making sure the grid was in correct order.

    If Holdsworth, Davison and Waters were in the hunt for the Championship(as Coulthard is), it puts them down a round with a handful of races left.

    Whincup needs to be banned from Bathurst. Have Lowndes and someone else drive the car.
     
    Pete05 likes this.
  5. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

    Messages:
    6,236
    Location:
    Australia
    If Whincup passes a Safety Car at Bathurst & costs Lowndes another victory, I'll want him banned for life & knowing how much Roland loves a Bathurst trophy, with the help of the Lowndes army I reckon we might be able to get RD over the line in enforcing the ban :mischievous:
     
    fordlaser and 05XR8 like this.
  6. 05XR8

    05XR8

    Messages:
    28,302
    Location:
    Australia
  7. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

    Messages:
    1,788
    Tim Schenken is correct... and while this didn't happen, I'd like to see how those drivers complaining would feel if their car was ablaze on track in this situation. I don't think they'd be wanting cars passing the safety car for the sake of track position then.

    In the end, you win some, you lose some under safety car conditions, but drivers need to remember it's there for their (and the marshall's) safety... deal with it.

    https://www.supercars.com/videos/championship/race-control-details-safety-car-process/
     
    fordlaser likes this.
  8. CLowndes888

    CLowndes888

    Messages:
    7,848
    Location:
    Australia
    So dad and I had a discussion at length about the safety car debacle and came to one simple conclusion: Whincup shouldn't have passed the safety car because that only compounded the issue. Whincup has a terrible habit of taking the law into his own hands and that's why I hate him. He may not have understood why the safety car picked him up, but that is irrelevant because when the yellow lights are flashing, you cannot go by. Simple as that. Question it all you like but the rule is written very clearly and Whincup ignored it. AGAIN.
     
    fordlaser likes this.
  9. Spacegoat

    Spacegoat Premium

    Messages:
    13,560
    Location:
    Australia
    Was away all weekend. Didn't see anything from either race. Whincup passed a safety car, again?
    Pikachu.jpg

    Looking at the results from the second race. Excellent stuff from Hazelwood and Simona. Much better from Pye as well.
     
  10. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

    Messages:
    1,788
    Watch the race and the reason for their great results will be revealed ;).
     
    05XR8 and Spacegoat like this.
  11. Spacegoat

    Spacegoat Premium

    Messages:
    13,560
    Location:
    Australia
    But by the sounds of your post, my hopes of some actual progress from WAU will be crushed. :( :lol:

    If it's replayed on Foxtel again I'll try and watch it.
     
    FPV MIC likes this.
  12. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

    Messages:
    1,788
    I watched some of it again this morning on my computer through Foxtel Now. It's on in the On Demand section, and seeing as you have Foxtel you're entitled to it (I have it on three devices) :tup:. Just use your Foxtel Login here (through Google Chrome): https://now.foxtel.com.au/app/#/login
     
    Spacegoat likes this.
  13. 05XR8

    05XR8

    Messages:
    28,302
    Location:
    Australia
    You'll be happy with WAU's pace. Same with Simona's.
     
    Spacegoat likes this.
  14. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

    Messages:
    1,788
    JDub's been given the old 'please explain'... and rightly so.

    https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/09/16/cams-asks-whincup-to-explain-race-officials-criticism/

    And this (source below) pretty much says it all.
    https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/09/16/poll-who-was-right-about-the-race-24-safety-car-deployment/
     
    fordlaser likes this.
  15. Ozzoky

    Ozzoky

    Messages:
    14
    I’m not a Whincup fan but how can he be the only one to blame here?

    Actually, how can he be considered the one that caused this big mess?

    How can you not see that it was Race Control/Safety car that made the mistake of not identifying the correct leader of the race and, by doing so, changing the outcome of the race?!?

    Whincup made the wrong decision of passing the safety car but I don’t think it had a negative impact on Holdsworth and the other drivers behind him.

    So why didn’t race control corrected the order before going green again? Because they couldn’t… the damage was already done.



    I don’t think Jamie made any friends with the way he showed his frustration but I agree with him when he says that the stewards are not operating at the same level as the teams (we have years of inconsistent and wrong decisions to prove it).

    I can imagine the Ford fans going nuts if it was Whincup winning instead of Mclaughlin because of a bad decision from Race Control… this forum would be on fire!
     
  16. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

    Messages:
    1,788
    Read the post above yours. The safety car does not have to pick up the leader. And while I also think the Tickford boys were a bit out of line, none of them passed the safety car or crapped on race control for doing what they had said could happen in the driver's briefing like JW did.

    In other words race control didn't do anything wrong, only JW did. How can you not understand that.

    And I would have the same stance if Scott Mclaughlin did it. It's about obeying race control for the drivers/marshall's safety, not a Holden vs Ford thing.
     
  17. 05XR8

    05XR8

    Messages:
    28,302
    Location:
    Australia
    Race control should not have given up and restarted the race. Had they corrected the field and given Whincup the drive thru, it would have been fine. The right thing to do.

    Whincup just made himself look bad. I don't see how some think it's a freedom of speech issue. His reflection*cough*publicistmadehimdoit*cough* letter says otherwise.
     
  18. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

    Messages:
    1,788
    There wasn't anything to adjust... other than JW. What throws peoples perspective out is Dave Reynolds getting his car going again. If it was still stopped, there would have been a recovery crew going onto the track with multiple cars going at race speed (because none of the drivers slow down as they should under safety car conditions) coming straight at them!!! Or the other scenario is they have to wait until JW and co. go by before they can attend a stricken car which could be to the detriment of driver safety.

    I'd also like to see what McLaughlin and co's speed was when going past DR's stricken car. You can bet that they were very, very close to race speed (a pet hate of mine). This is something the drive by wire throttle system could be used to combat, and also would make these situations fair for all... but as the system stands atm sometimes you're the bug, sometimes you're the windscreen. That's just how it is!
     
  19. Ozzoky

    Ozzoky

    Messages:
    14
    The fact that the rule book states that the safety car does not have to pick up the race leader doesn’t mean that Race control didn’t make a mistake. Their decision changed the outcome of the race and that’s one of the worst things you can do as a Race Director (along with overlooking security issues).

    The issue that triggered the safety car was not an accident or an emergency (there was no safety crew deployed on track) so they could have done much better… Not picking up the race leader is not the standard but the exception (for obvious reasons). They always race to the safety car because of the unique pit rules in supercars. By not letting Whincup, Holdsworth and the other drivers race to the safety car they effectively gave an advantage to the other drivers that reacted by stopping in the pits (track position and time for topping the fuel tank).

    If I paid a ticket to see this crap I would be angry. Put yourself in Lee’s position, it was his best chance at a win and race control (not Jamie) took that away from him.

    Be honest and admit that they screwed up… Jamie was wrong also by reacting to a bad decision with another bad decision.

    How can you not understand that?

    P.S. And you are right, there was nothing to be corrected because they can’t correct the order of the field after that screw up. That’s just how it is.
     
  20. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

    Messages:
    1,788
    Not picking up the race leader is not the standard but the exception, yes that's correct, but this track is one that is the exception (along with Symmons Plains and Barbagallo). It was even mentioned in the driver's briefing notes.

    On another note: You say put yourself in Holdsworth's position, I say put yourself in race controls position. They don't have the benefit of hindsight so they have to react as if it's the worst case scenario every single time. Example (again): Same circumstance but DR's car catches fire, fire marshall's can't get to DR because race control is letting cars go by the safety car (at race speed). DR is now dead, burnt to a crisp... but at least the cars were in the running order that some (so-called) fans think they should be in :crazy:. How does it bode for race control then? OHS would be all over it.
    I know this is over dramatic but it's what has to go through the minds of race control in the time that fans are only worrying about race order.

    Also, they should never race back to the safety car, unique pit rules or not. The whole track is under caution. This is the sort of behaviour that puts race control under pressure.

    Am I the only one that remembers when caution actually meant something :indiff:.
     
  21. 05XR8

    05XR8

    Messages:
    28,302
    Location:
    Australia
    I'm all for cars doing 60 or what ever slower pace to rejoin the field. If SC is doing 80 or whatever, makes it a bit hard to catch back up.

    I feel RC should have halted the race until they got the field in order, rather than restart. Like I mentioned, put safety and their protocol before time certain finishes.

    The T8 radio chatter is interesting if Cauchy told Whincup to go. They should get fined and points deducted. Maybe race exclusion for the #88.
     
  22. Spacegoat

    Spacegoat Premium

    Messages:
    13,560
    Location:
    Australia
  23. 05XR8

    05XR8

    Messages:
    28,302
    Location:
    Australia
    Would be cool.
     
  24. Ozzoky

    Ozzoky

    Messages:
    14
    You can see you are exaggerating and making hypothetical scenarios to prove your point, right? Are you a politician? :odd:

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m all in favor of safety. If the safety car was deployed because of an accident then race control’s decision was ok.

    I know that the track is short and they talked about specific rules in the drivers meeting but they overreacted by deploying the safety car.

    But even if they did, they should have just put the damn green lights and let the cars go by until the leader was picked up.

    That’s my view. It’s in the rule book and it’s the decision with less impact on the outcome of the race.



    If you take Whincup out of the equation maybe you can see that Race control’s decision was just wrong.
     
  25. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

    Messages:
    1,788
    Hahahaha, far from it.

    The safety car is also deployed to stop the risk of what might become an accident ;).
    Like I said, RC has to act as if it's worse case scenario every time, regardless of what armchair experts say. That's why no-one wants the job, it's thankless.
    They might have been able to put the lights on earlier if JW hadn't compounded the difficulty of their job.

    And you have you're right to an opinion as I have to mine. I've seen way too many deaths in motorsport (both live at the track and on TV) and I'd want RC erring on the side of caution every single time when they deploy the safety car.

    How does that make RC wrong? The only difference that makes is, as I said earlier, that they may have been able to release the cars from behind the safety car sooner, therefore having less impact on the race.

    FYI, it's nothing to do with ''insert driver name here'', I'd say the same no matter who was behind the wheel.
     
  26. Ozzoky

    Ozzoky

    Messages:
    14
    Wasn't Reynolds stopped outside the racing line in the slowest corner of the racetrack (visible to oncoming traffic)? :odd:
    They should always perform at an acceptable level and that was not the case here... in my opinion.
    I think it's the other way around. If it wasn't for the safety car... you get the idea.
    Race Control's decision effectively changed the outcome of the race and that's wrong. You might say their actions are according to the rule book but there are better options in the rule book so, in my opinion, they were wrong or incompetent.
    As for my suggestion of taking Whincup out of the equation... it's just based on this forum's common opinion about T8 and their drivers.
    If you look beyhond that you will see this was a bad decision.
     
  27. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

    Messages:
    1,788
    A local yellow wouldn't cut it, so the Safety Car was the obvious choice to get the car removed as quickly and safely as it possibly could.

    This is where he was:
    Untitled.png

    Do you honestly expect the recovery crew to work that close to a hot racing track, remembering of course that RC can't tell the future and weren't to know D Reynolds would get his car going. This is where ''RC has to act as if it's worse case scenario every time'' comes in.

    They did, everything was by the book. JW was the only one outside the rules and did not perform at an acceptable level by passing the SC... again.

    I've covered this above. Please don't make me keep stating the obvious.

    Every time the SC is deployed there's winners and losers, and yes, their actions were by the book. How hard is it?

    As for your 'taking Whincup out of the equation' I've addressed this several times already. Now how about you take your JW blinkers off and take him out of the equation and see if you'd feel the same if it were the three Ford's (only) held behind the SC. Would you still feel the same? I think not... but I would. I'm able to take the Holden/Ford part out of the equation when it comes to the safety of all concerned.
     
  28. 05XR8

    05XR8

    Messages:
    28,302
    Location:
    Australia
    FPV MIC likes this.
  29. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

    Messages:
    1,788
    Unfortunately they'll still use the same old test but at least it will be far more thorough.

    https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/supercars-details-aero-changes-for-2020/

    With 15% less aero and 15 less horsepower lap records could very well be a thing of the past (for a while, the teams will gain the speed back somehow eventually).
     
    05XR8 likes this.
  30. 05XR8

    05XR8

    Messages:
    28,302
    Location:
    Australia
    If they keep the same tyre as well. The Super super soft was working wonders a couple years ago.
     
    FPV MIC likes this.