2024 US Presidential Election Thread

  • Thread starter ryzno
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Duke
They cannot both be from the same state. One of them could change legal residence, but it would still smell bad.
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Cheney did that. Registered to vote in Wyoming, I think? And then sold Texas home.
 
McLaren
Speaking of potential tickets, there are a couple polls that suggest Gov. Shapiro has a strong chance of being the best candidate. According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, he even has the support of more than a third of Trump supports in his state with a 57% approval rating all-around.

Edit* Newsom & Whitmer both ruled themselves out being VP to Harris. I think they both have their sights set on 2028.
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I think having a Jewish president would be a hard sell for many voters. He's also pro-Israel, which isn't ideal for attracting younger voters. He also enacted the policy change with vague language about "scandalous behaviour" which brought up a ton of free speech concerns.
 
Fetterman's worse on Israel than Biden is, and openly mocks people for their concern for Gaza. I don't see him winning the youth vote. From what I can tell, many feel that he betrayed his progressive base and no longer support him.
 
Yard_Sale
That doesn’t sound the least bit radical nor something you would need the “radical left” to carry out. Just legally very messy with an hour glass that’s running out


Edit:

If the Dems were smart, they would either leave the ticket as is… or give Kamala a field-promotion to the front of the ticket and sub in any one of the aforementioned names in the VP spot. Which person they put in the VP position doesn’t really matter, as they all have their respective issues, and they’re going to lose the White House anyways. Regardless, swapping in another presidential candidate other than Kamala will be certain death up and down the ballot

If they leave the ticket as is, dust off the playbook from 4-5 years ago when Joe’s cognitive decline was beginning to become noticeable, and put him in the basement like they did last election.

Regardless of where Kamala ends up on the ticket, send her to charm school for a few weeks because she’s almost as bad as Biden when it comes to unscripted speaking.

Massively redirect campaign funds into down-ballot races to minimize potential losses there, and hopefully bolster voter turnout and enthusiasm - with the hopes of making up ground at the front of the ticket (admittedly I’m a little biased towards redirecting funds and efforts into local elections, mainly because I’ve always felt that local politics have a much larger influence on my quality of life, over whichever window licker happens to be in the Whitehouse at the time)


Anyways, gotta get back to cooking 😎
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This still should be the democrats game plan, regardless.

Even a (sound of mind) Biden-Harris ticket didn’t have much a shot of winning this presidential election

They need to ‘head fake’ like there still going for the Oval Office, but with their hips pointing down ballot in hopes of stymying Trump’s agenda. I still think the democrats lose the Senate, but best case scenario is that Trump’s not able to give the economy a shot of albuterol as promised, he steps on his meat and nearly opportunity like last term, and the Democrats are able to somehow conjure up a successful moral outrage campaign - especially when he attempts his mass deportation efforts…

All of this in hopes of a blue wave in 2026 with their eyes set to 2028
 
So we really want to give up all the extraordinary advantages a sitting president enjoys in a reelection campaign? All for Gavin ******* Newsome?
 
Danoff
It'll be Harris. And what are the extraordinary advantages?
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I would think the answers are rather obvious but here you go:

"Incumbents have the following advantages," says Allan Lichtman, a presidential historian at American University. "Name recognition; national attention, fundraising and campaign bases; control over the instruments of government; successful campaign experience; a presumption of success; and voters' inertia and risk-aversion."

I know Trumpism upends a lot of these. His followers aren't simply conservatives voting for the most conservative candidate. They are members of a cult, voting for their god. But Biden's advantages both as the incumbent and the man who beat Trump before can't be ignored.
 
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Populuxe
I would think the answers are rather obvious but here you go:

"Incumbents have the following advantages," says Allan Lichtman, a presidential historian at American University. "Name recognition; national attention, fundraising and campaign bases; control over the instruments of government; successful campaign experience; a presumption of success; and voters' inertia and risk-aversion."

I know Trumpism upends a lot of these. His followers aren't simply conservatives voting for the most conservative candidate. They are members of a cult, voting for their god. But Biden's advantages both as the incumbent and the man who beat Trump before can't be ignored.
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Harris has similar name recognition and national attention being from his campaign. Additionally she's the presumptive replacement due to getting all of his fundraising. Biden retains control over the instruments of government during the final stages, and would presumably do so in a way that Harris finds beneficial. Biden has more campaign experience than Harris, this is true. Biden has more of every kind of experience than most people because he's 81.

In terms of voter inertia and risk-aversion, I'm not sure those cut in Biden's favor. I think there is a perceived risk due to his age, and this is the central point. But also this is the issue with presumption of success.

Biden definitely has the edge on campaign experience. But I think Harris is in similar or better standing on most of those issues. If not for any other reason than that Biden has been looking his age recently and has erased a lot of the presumption of success, inertia, and risk-aversion.

I'd be fine voting Biden in and letting him step down as the need arose. But I think the issue is that the need is starting to arise.

Interestingly, he could actually step down as President and make Harris become the president for the remainder of the term.

Wait... SHOULD he do that? First I've thought of it.

Like... hey MAGA, hold my beer. Harris is POTUS before november!
 
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Danoff
Harris has similar name recognition and national attention being from his campaign. Additionally she's the presumptive replacement due to getting all of his fundraising. Biden retains control over the instruments of government during the final stages, and would presumably do so in a way that Harris finds beneficial. Biden has more campaign experience than Harris, this is true. Biden has more of every kind of experience than most people because he's 81.

In terms of voter inertia and risk-aversion, I'm not sure those cut in Biden's favor. I think there is a perceived risk due to his age, and this is the central point. But also this is the issue with presumption of success.

Biden definitely has the edge on campaign experience. But I think Harris is in similar or better standing on most of those issues. If not for any other reason than that Biden has been looking his age recently and has erased a lot of the presumption of success, inertia, and risk-aversion.

I'd be fine voting Biden in and letting him step down as the need arose. But I think the issue is that the need is starting to arise.

Interestingly, he could actually step down as President and make Harris become the president for the remainder of the term.

Wait... SHOULD he do that? First I've thought of it.

Like... hey MAGA, hold my beer. Harris is POTUS before november!
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25th amendment that was peddled around here a number of years back, right?
 
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Eunos_Cosmo
View attachment 1373768

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kelly21-5b314ba7a7915c326f706418ac66d28448f4bd3c.jpg


Mark-Kelly.jpg


This guy calms me down just looking at him. He looks thoughtful, he looks kind, he looks smart, he looks professional, he looks like he's got things under control. All the things that Trump & Vance don't have.
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Trust him, he's a pilot.

That's the type of guy that pulls real Americans. If you don't vote for a Kelly you're a commie bastard.

That said, I still think the the effort to blow up the ticket is just that and Biden should not be pushed out. Other candidates had three years to figure out he was old, and had an opportunity to challenge during the primaries, and they didn't. We voted for Biden/Harris in the primary.

If other Democrats want to elevate themselves for the future they should maybe put forth some effort because I haven't been seeing any. Get in line and do your jobs is still my opinion.
 
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Danoff
jennifer-lawrence-okay.gif


Glad we got that cleared up, and I can stop trusting my own eyes and ears.

That's a personal issue. This one is super obvious. Debate went terribly, played directly into the biggest fears about biden, and his polling looks bad.

You're doxing yourself. I don't get my ballot anywhere near that time.
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Just for a little perspective. Are you a corporate guy?
 
Kriptical
Not sure what you think I would have meant. Just a simple question.
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"Corporate guy" isn't really a thing. That could run the gamut from a company man manager-type who does everything for the good of the company to the cog in a cubicle. It's ambiguous to the point that it's meaningless.
 
TexRex
"Corporate guy" isn't really a thing. That could run the gamut from a company man manager-type who does everything for the good of the company to the cog in a cubicle. It's ambiguous to the point that it's meaningless.
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Fair enough. I just had an interesting conversation yesterday, and they seemed to be reading from the same script. Know why their perspective is what it is. Was wondering about overlap, and permeation.

Anyway, as much as the replace Biden hypothesis is pedaled here, it’s worth repeating that this is less about his age, or debate performance, and more about someone who the billionaires thought would stay in line. But isn’t.

Not trying to change anyone’s mind. The trenches are obviously dug deeply and my thumbs have limits..but the billionaire water carrying irks me.
 
Kriptical
Not sure what you think I would have meant. Just a simple question.
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And I gave you a direct answer.
Kriptical
Fair enough. I just had an interesting conversation yesterday, and they seemed to be reading from the same script. Know why their perspective is what it is. Was wondering about overlap, and permeation.
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And why is their perspective what it is? And why do you think it overlaps with... um.. mine? Not sure what you think is overlapping.

Edit: Also "reading from the same script" is an unnecessarily conspiratorial way of saying "agree".
Kriptical
Anyway, as much as the replace Biden hypothesis is pedaled here, it’s worth repeating that this is less about his age, or debate performance, and more about someone who the billionaires thought would stay in line. But isn’t.
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What do you mean by staying in line? Being able to give a debate or speech without trailing off or fumbling around the point?

Kriptical
Not trying to change anyone’s mind. The trenches are obviously dug deeply and my thumbs have limits..but the billionaire water carrying irks me.
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I simply do not know what your point is, because you won't say it.

What do you think Biden did that pissed off your imagined conspiracy of billionaires? Why do you think it's that instead of just looking too old in a debate or speeches.

This situation is VERY straightforward. Biden is old, voters were worried about that. He had a debate where he looked old and weak and effectively "lost" to a buffoon who lied and rambled on the other side. As I've said several times, he played UP the fears that he is too old. And now that that's happened, his chances of winning have declined, and people are thinking with the stakes as high as they are that he should step down. If he's elected, 4 years from now he'll be 85.

None of that needs a conspiracy. None of it needs amorphous rich people pulling strings about something else entirely which you won't say. None of it cries out for another explanation. It's all very straightforward. For some reason you seem to think it needs another explanation, but you won't tell us why or really even what it is.

So don't be surprised if we don't take your cause up.
 
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Danoff
What do you think Biden did that pissed off your imagined conspiracy of billionaires?
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It's not a conspiracy. The billionaires are literally saying it out loud.

From the Financial Times: "As for buying access to the White House: It’s pretty revealing that investor Marc Andreessen and his business partner Ben Horowitz, who just came out for Trump in this podcast, spend a lot of time whingeing about being refused an audience with Biden, whereas they recently had a chance to push their tech policy ideas over dinner with Trump. Andreessen, who historically backed Democrats, says it was a Biden plan to tax billionaires that finally made him defect."

From The Hill, quoting Mark Cuban: “If @joebiden loses, there is a good chance you will be able to thank @GaryGensler and the @NewYork_SEC,” Cuban wrote on X. “Crypto is a mainstay with younger and independent voters.”
“This is also a warning to Congress,” he added. “Crypto voters will be heard this election.”

From Fox Business, we have real estate billionaire Jeff Greene: "Billionaire real estate mogul and former Democratic gubernatorial candidate Jeff Greene sounded off on President Biden’s "completely ridiculous" plan for national rent control, warning that it stunts new buildings and fair prices.
"It makes no sense at all. I can see it on the primary [basis], if you're trying to really go after the far-left people who don't know anything about housing. But in a general election, when he's trying to appeal to independents and moderates, I have no idea why he would come up with such a crazy idea," Greene said in an exclusive interview on "The Claman Countdown" Wednesday."

And let's not forget Musk is contributing $45 million dollars a month to get Trump elected. He's not doing it because he thinks Biden is too old. He's doing it because he knows Trump will do as he's told.
 
Populuxe
It's not a conspiracy. The billionaires are literally saying it out loud.

From the Financial Times: "As for buying access to the White House: It’s pretty revealing that investor Marc Andreessen and his business partner Ben Horowitz, who just came out for Trump in this podcast, spend a lot of time whingeing about being refused an audience with Biden, whereas they recently had a chance to push their tech policy ideas over dinner with Trump. Andreessen, who historically backed Democrats, says it was a Biden plan to tax billionaires that finally made him defect."

From The Hill, quoting Mark Cuban: “If @joebiden loses, there is a good chance you will be able to thank @GaryGensler and the @NewYork_SEC,” Cuban wrote on X. “Crypto is a mainstay with younger and independent voters.”
“This is also a warning to Congress,” he added. “Crypto voters will be heard this election.”

From Fox Business, we have real estate billionaire Jeff Greene: "Billionaire real estate mogul and former Democratic gubernatorial candidate Jeff Greene sounded off on President Biden’s "completely ridiculous" plan for national rent control, warning that it stunts new buildings and fair prices.
"It makes no sense at all. I can see it on the primary [basis], if you're trying to really go after the far-left people who don't know anything about housing. But in a general election, when he's trying to appeal to independents and moderates, I have no idea why he would come up with such a crazy idea," Greene said in an exclusive interview on "The Claman Countdown" Wednesday."

And let's not forget Musk is contributing $45 million dollars a month to get Trump elected. He's not doing it because he thinks Biden is too old. He's doing it because he knows Trump will do as he's told.
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The angle that's being pushed by @Kriptical is that Biden is being asked to step down in favor of someone like Harris because billionaires want that. Nothing about what you're saying is supporting that conspiracy.
 
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Danoff
The angle that's being pushed by @Kriptical is that Biden is being asked to step down in favor of someone like Harris because billionaires want that. Nothing about what you're saying is supporting that conspiracy.
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Pushing the "Biden is too old" angle and getting people talking about replacing him on the ticket isn't actually about replacing him on the ticket. It's about weakening him as a candidate. And it's working.
 
Populuxe
Pushing the "Biden is too old" angle and getting people talking about replacing him on the ticket isn't actually about replacing him on the ticket. It's about weakening him as a candidate. And it's working.
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So let's look at who is doing the "pushing".

Jon Stewart
Stephen Colbert
Adam Schiff
Nancy Pelosi
Barack Obama
Chuck Schumer
George Clooney

Here's a longer list:
abcnews.go.com

These Democrats called for Joe Biden to drop out of 2024 race before his announcement

Several congressional Democrats expressed concern about Biden's viability as a presidential candidate before his announcement Sunday.
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com

Are these people the billionaires? Or do you think they've been bought by the billionaires?

A moment ago, you said that the billionaires were saying it out loud. But they did not say that they were asking Biden to step down in any of the quotes you had. So they weren't saying it out loud. What you're now saying is squarely in conspiracy land - that the entire democratic party is schilling for Billionaires that want Trump to win. Because those people (and a few people in Hollywood) are the ones doing to the pushing.

This is all to come up with an explanation for why an 81 year old man who forgot his way through a debate needs to step aside.
 
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I see the distinction you're making, and fair enough. I have not provided clear evidence that billionaires are ginning up concerns about Biden's age in an effort to get people concerned enough to openly discuss removing him from the ticket. But I don't need Peter Thiel to go on the Joe Rogan podcast and openly state "I am spending millions ginning up concerns about Biden's age in an effort to get people concerned enough to openly discuss removing him from the ticket" to believe that's what he and others are doing. That's not a conspiracy theory. Billionaires have the motivation, and thanks to Citizens United vs. FEC, the opportunity and means to sway the election to a more favorable outcome for themselves. Of course they're doing it.

And of course I don't think the list of people you provided have been "bought" by billionaires. I believe they are genuine in their concern. But that doesn't mean I think they're right. Democrats have a bad habit of going full Chicken Little when things aren't going 100% their way. I think that's what's happening here. A lot of good people are getting swept up by a bad idea masquerading as a good idea.
 

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