3D3 Racing: WRS-based races moved to new WRS sub-forum!

[Hydro]

Marc... I analyzed this replay looking around the pit stops and it's really strange how I lost 9 seconds to you. Can't quite figure it out, but based on my experience the other night with Lefty I think the pits are inconsistent between drivers. Either depending on where your pit is situated or maybe the speed at which you enter the threshold of pit lane... or just the speed of the pit stop itself... Here are the relevant laps. Green = In Lap, Red = Out Lap:

Gap Before Pit Cycle (End of Lap 13): WRP +00.852

Lap..Hydro......WRP001
13...1'47.453...1'47.184
14...1'49.118...1'47.902
15...2'14.722...1'49.167
16...1'46.826...2'15.808
17...1'47.500...1'57.566
18...1'46.400...1'46.506​

Gap After Pit Cycle (End of Lap 17): Hydro +11.416

My pit stall was actually before the start line in this case so my "in" lap was much slower than my "out" lap, but that should have evened out. I can't really explain while the total time in pit laps was ~9 seconds slower. There was no incident on track or traffic to account for it. About 3 of the 12 seconds of the gap change was due to tires as your 2 laps after pits with fresh rubber were understandably faster than my 2 laps before my pit with worn rubber... that's 3 second difference is how it should work and I had an advantage late in the race that made up for it plus some. But the 9 secs is something to investigate and test.

I wonder if GT5 doesn't regulate speed correctly from the pit entry to your stall, but does regulate it from your stall to the exit? Maybe it depends on the speed in which you enter? The same issue, but not to that extent occurred at GP/F when I was following Lefty. I went in maybe 15 car lengths behind Lefty and came out 2 car lengths behind (and I had the 2nd closest pit stall to exit at GP/F). I qualified on pole for TMR, but since it was reverse direction the #1 pit put me closest to entry. You were at the other end of pit lane near the exit like I was at GP/F.

If I had to guess I'm going with the bold part.

I have no idea..
All I know is when I went into the pit I was behind by less than a car length to you, and when I finished lap 29, I was in almost the same spot
Looks like something worked out in the end

I'm not sure where in the pit lane my stall was. I qualified second, so we must have been close. Weird.

...in any case, pressing x a bunch never hurts.👍

Words to live by until further notice
I know I was all over the X button during my stop, think I ran over an air gun on the exit.

I'll probably watch the replay again at some point though to see how long it took me from entry to exit, and compare the time to your pit stop.
If you are just sitting in the pit for the extra time, It might suggest that it involves the X button, as Dom suggested.

(Tim) Did you notice if anyone else had such a long pit/out lap combo from the timer replay?

 

[WRP001]

I have no idea..
All I know is when I went into the pit I was behind by less than a car length to you, and when I finished lap 29, I was in almost the same spot
Looks like something worked out in the end

I'm not sure where in the pit lane my stall was. I qualified second, so we must have been close. Weird.

Words to live by until further notice
I know I was all over the X button during my stop, think I ran over an air gun on the exit.

I'll probably watch the replay again at some point though to see how long it took me from entry to exit, and compare the time to your pit stop.
If you are just sitting in the pit for the extra time, It might suggest that it involves the X button, as Dom suggested.

(Tim) Did you notice if anyone else had such a long pit/out lap combo from the timer replay?

You can see from the leaderboard video where are pits are because the little markers stop. Your pit stall was near the end of the lane and mine was before the start line... so they were on completely opposite ends. I don't think pit stalls go by quali time... they may go by when you enter the room? And on a reverse track the #1 stall is probably the first instead of the last.

Yah, it would probably take a replay view to watch the time span between when the car goes into AI hands and returns from AI hands for each driver to see if there was indeed a difference. Idea... I could capture both our pits on video and then we could freeze frame... going to take a bit of effort, and not today!!

 

[CSLACR]

Keep in mind guys it may be a "penalty" for entering to fast, I really don't know for sure, but I had an early pit lane myself when mine froze up, though it didn't the second time when I pushed x a lot.

And yes, I'm 99% sure pit spots are determined by entry order and nothing else, but I could be wrong, I'll ask the experienced online guys over there. 👍

Edit: yup, room entry order. (not track entry)

 

[WRP001]

Keep in mind guys it may be a "penalty" for entering to fast, I really don't know for sure, but I had an early pit lane myself when mine froze up, though it didn't the second time when I pushed x a lot.

And yes, I'm 99% sure pit spots are determined by entry order and nothing else, but I could be wrong, I'll ask the experienced online guys over there. 👍

Edit: yup, room entry order. (not track entry)

OK. we did have penalty set to weak so that's possible, but there is no way my entry into pits was faster than Hydro's. He went in full throttle and will a full head of steam and almost took out my pit crew which was right at the entrance

I'm almost thinking entry speed "helps". I think when I was following Lefty the other night at GP/F my speed on pit road was quite a bit higher than his and that might carry over somewhat into the pits until you reach the stall. i.e. you enter at 100 pm and it slows you down to target pit lane speed using brakes... it's not instantaneous. The other guy comes in at 80 mph and so he starts slower and gets to target speed quicker.

If hydro went in at ~100 mph which is my guess given the track and his stall was in the latter half of pit lane and his car slowed "gradually" down to 50 mph (or whatever is the AI limit) that would give a huge advantage. I come in at same 100 mph, but first pit stall so car almost immediately goes to 0 mph in my stall. The reverse track exacerbates the issue because the first stall is literally right at the entry. After the stop everything is equalizes as AI takes over from 0 mph in all cases and releases at same point at roughly the same speed.

I'm going to check out our replays later today and capture on video those two pit stops including segments before entry and after exit. We'll get an answer pretty definitively that way I think... or at least be able to eliminate some of the theories. In the video editing software I can literally go frame by frame so timing things should be a snap.

 

[Hydro]

OK. we did have penalty set to weak so that's possible, but there is no way my entry into pits was faster than Hydro's. He went in full throttle and will a full head of steam and almost took out my pit crew which was right at the entrance

I'm almost thinking entry speed "helps". I think when I was following Lefty the other night at GP/F my speed on pit road was quite a bit higher than his and that might carry over somewhat into the pits until you reach the stall. i.e. you enter at 100 pm and it slows you down to target pit lane speed using brakes... it's not instantaneous. The other guy comes in at 80 mph and so he starts slower and gets to target speed quicker.

If hydro went in at ~100 mph which is my guess given the track and his stall was in the latter half of pit lane and his car slowed "gradually" down to 50 mph (or whatever is the AI limit) that would give a huge advantage. I come in at same 100 mph, but first pit stall so car almost immediately goes to 0 mph in my stall. The reverse track exacerbates the issue because the first stall is literally right at the entry. After the stop everything is equalizes as AI takes over from 0 mph in all cases and releases at same point at roughly the same speed.

I'm going to check out our replays later today and capture on video those two pit stops including segments before entry and after exit. We'll get an answer pretty definitively that way I think... or at least be able to eliminate some of the theories. In the video editing software I can literally go frame by frame so timing things should be a snap.

Ok, I just watched the replay (again ) and I think the answer / culprit is in Dominic's post.
The X button.

First, NO ONE entered the pit faster / more recklessly than I did.
I decided very last second to pit on that lap, and it shows

From the Ambulance at the entrance, to the shadow of the bridge following the exit:
Hydro: 36.1
WRP001: 45.9

Total time stopped in the Pit:
Hydro: 10.6
WRP001: 18.3

The most obvious difference was that after WRP001's car was back on the ground, and the crew was "clear", he sat there for 8.5 seconds before his car moved again.
By comparison, my car was lifted as soon as I stopped, and exited the Pit stall almost immediately once back on the ground.

I know from my first OMRS that I once didn't push X after the tire change, and I sat there until I realized it, and it resulted in a very long pit stop.
So, it would seem that Dom identified the problem, and has already explained the remedy.

Select your tire/fuel options ASAP upon entering the pit, and push X.
As soon as your car has completed the tire change, keep pushing X until you are released from the pit, as there is no indicator to let you know that you have to do anything in order to leave the pit.

 

[EDK]

I had that issue at Trial Mountain a few weeks ago in the Z06 RM series, it's either a pit-lane penalty (without telling you), a TM track glitch, and/or is fixed by rapidly pushing the x button right as they stop changing your tires and you "should" be free to go.
In my case I noticed not only them waiting after the car set down, but a fast driver 2-3 seconds behind me exited the pits 4 seconds in front of me!

I qualified last that race, may have a part in it, in any case, pressing x a bunch never hurts.👍

There are some pit lanes with glitches, I've seen it in other online racing that I've run in. Deep Forest and Nordschleife stand out. Mainly, that had to do with 2 cars in the lane at the same time, so to avoid that, just pit on a different lap.

 

[Hydro]

There are some pit lanes with glitches, I've seen it in other online racing that I've run in. Deep Forest and Nordschleife stand out. Mainly, that had to do with 2 cars in the lane at the same time, so to avoid that, just pit on a different lap.

Thanks for the tip Kevin! 👍
I think I'll just pit early everytime to avoid everyone

I had a weird pit at Deep Forest once as well. I was never really sure what happened, but it was a long stop, that's for sure, with no re-fuel
Hopefully being vigilant on the X button will help in the future.

BTW, it would be great to see you in the line up at some point Kev, it's really your fault that this series started. You, and the GTP crew have made these events so darn addictive.

 

[EDK]

BTW, it would be great to see you in the line up at some point Kev, it's really your fault that this series started. You, and the GTP crew have made these events so darn addictive.

Yep, I will have to make that a priority. Time wise, weekends are typically better for me, but I know everyone has a life. Will try to pop in at some point, especially when it's on a combo that I ran a lot of.

Any thoughts on hitting the dirt in this series?

BTW - This is what a series like this is all about. 👍

 

[Gravitron]

If it wasn't you asking about dirt, it would have been Lefty. I'd be up for it. 👍

When I enter the pits, I'm going with the NES Contra 30 lives button mash: U U D D L R L R B A Select Start!

 

[EDK]

If it wasn't you asking about dirt, it would have been Lefty. I'd be up for it. 👍

Well, I think that would be less insane than the Sauber at Sarthe.

 

[Hydro]

Yep, I will have to make that a priority. Time wise, weekends are typically better for me, but I know everyone has a life. Will try to pop in at some point, especially when it's on a combo that I ran a lot of.

Any thoughts on hitting the dirt in this series?

BTW - This is what a series like this is all about. 👍

Cool, it would be great to see you race 👍
We really need a mid-week race fix, so Wednesdays wound up as our night

On dirt:
I was crushed when on the last lap of the mountaineering event WRP001 went wide in turn 2 (same as the pic above) and it didn't cost him too much, so I wasn't able to pass.

We really aren't interested in penalizing drivers for infractions that the game doesn't catch / enforce, so it's ok when a bit of off track happens.
Considering those four drivers spent several laps that close together, and WRP and myself were locked in a death match for more than half the race, it's totally expected that a bit of extra room will be needed from time to time.

Our only real stance on the subject is that if a driver repeatedly uses extra track space in ways we would prefer not to see, a PM will be in order.
It's been really great racing so far, so it's all good.

Our next event is the Gettin' Groceries event, so it will probably be a better test of track boundaries than we have had so far.

Of course, if you meant Rallying, that's another story
We will see...
..And stop teasing Lefty

Well, I think that would be less insane than the Sauber at Sarthe.

That event as a race, would have me so on edge, I'd be up all night following the race
Decisions Online had me sweating (literally) enough already.

 

[EDK]

Cool, it would be great to see you race 👍
We really need a mid-week race fix, so Wednesdays wound up as our night

On dirt:
I was crushed when on the last lap of the mountaineering event WRP001 went wide in turn 2 (same as the pic above) and it didn't cost him too much, so I wasn't able to pass.

We really aren't interested in penalizing drivers for infractions that the game doesn't catch / enforce, so it's ok when a bit of off track happens. Considering those four drivers spent several laps that close together, and WRP and myself were locked in a death match for more than half the race, it's totally expected that a bit of extra room will be needed from time to time.

Our only real stance on the subject is that if a driver repeatedly uses extra track space in ways we would prefer not to see, a PM will be in order.

It's been really great racing so far, so it's all good.

Our next event is the Gettin' Groceries event, so it will probably be a better test of track boundaries than we have had so far.

Was not a sarcastic comment on my part, I really meant that a tight pack like that with people pushing all out (clearly) is exactly the kind of thing you like to see. 👍

My dirt reference was a plea to run this -

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=221738

 

[Hydro]

Was not a sarcastic comment on my part, I really meant that a tight pack like that with people pushing all out (clearly) is exactly the kind of thing you like to see. 👍

My dirt reference was a plea to run this -

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=221738

I figured that, just as I was hitting "submit"
That pic does really sum up the racing so far. It's been great.
I can't believe how much time I've spent watching replays

We had considered "Getting Dirty..", but it seemed a bit difficult for a new series

We do intend to run short races after the main event in the future, and I for one would love to run a rally event.
They really aren't included enough in the game IMO.

 

[WRP001]

Yep, I will have to make that a priority. Time wise, weekends are typically better for me, but I know everyone has a life. Will try to pop in at some point, especially when it's on a combo that I ran a lot of.

Any thoughts on hitting the dirt in this series?

BTW - This is what a series like this is all about. 👍

Thanks for the 👍 Kevin! By the way I personally want 3D3 to host a few "special" events in addition to our normal weekly events that we run on a weekend. We'd like a few people in Europe to have a chance to run these (or others who can't run mid-week). But there isn't quite enough interest for a full blown sub-division. Maybe a Saturday morning start (PDT time) so that it would be early evening in Europe or something.

We could run the dirt event as that first special event too... I'm up for it, but guaranteed I'll be a back marker. The 3D3 stewards need to talk and work out the details and collect some feedback as far as a good time for those interested.

Seriously, the racing is so fun with WRS'ers I want to do it 5 nights a week, but my wife isn't that patient with this particular addiction

 

[Gravitron]

Man we'd love to have you Kev, but your submitted time for Getting Dirty was just too fast. A couple hours on that combo and I barely got the bronze (1'15.xxx I think).
You obviously had T3 nailed in that one. 👍

Since we're trying to kind of stay in sync with the WRS events as of this week, I'd vote for Getting Dirty as 5 or 10 lapper after the main event. Let us know, Kev, if a particular Wednesday would work better for you than another.

 

[Hydro]

We've added the rolling start details to the Gettin' Groceries event post.

The directions are really just to let all of the drivers know what to expect in order to keep the start simple, and have everyone on the same page.
We ran a small test online last night with myself, Tim, and Lefty, and it is a really easy process. 👍

We think we have all of the details down, but feel free to comment / discuss, especially if you have online rolling start experience.

 

[WRP001]

We forgot to mention that after testing last night we decided to stick with 30 laps for the "Gettin' Groceries Online" event. That should get us finished well under an hour and most likely under 50 minutes. It'll give us plenty of extra time for the setup of the rolling start / reverse grid and still get us finished before the target end time of 8:30 PDT.

Also, Lefty requested we do a little Kart shootout after the main event on Madrid Mini or Autumn Ring Mini. Any thoughts or interest in that? Target duration for the shootout would be about 15 minutes. If it's super fun and there is still a desire for more we could always do a 2nd identical shootout with a reverse start.

The alternative to Kart would be a historical WRS event such as "Rally de Madrid", which works well online as well, but probably best with fewer drivers which is what we'd probably expect from the later start time of the shootout. We know you east coasters can't stay up ALL night!

"Gettin' Dirty with a French Girl" was another idea posed for a future shoot out (maybe next week?). We could fix the start of that shootout so that people who can't attend the main event could jump on for just the shoot out. E.g. starting at 8:30 PM PDT for example and making sure we structure the main event so it finishes in around 50 minutes on that night giving us a ten minute buffer. Either that or save the dirt event for a future main event. My only concern with the latter is the participation for that event was relatively low (23 submissions) compared to other recent WRS events.

Let's see what Kevin has in store for us next week in any case as the current WRS event will always be our first choice for the main event.

Comments, ideas and suggestions welcome as always.

When I enter the pits, I'm going with the NES Contra 30 lives button mash: U U D D L R L R B A Select Start!

Lucas, your references never cease to amaze and educate me! All I have to say is "All your base are belong to us."

 

[EDK]

Let's see what Kevin has in store for us next week in any case as the current WRS event will always be our first choice for the main event.

I was testing at the Monaco Time Trial last night.

The car I tested was flat scary when set to specs, so need to keep working to find one I like.

 

[Gravitron]

Oooooooohh, privy info-mations...

I like Monaco...

But I haven't looked at the TT's restrictions yet, so I have no idea what kind of scary you're talking about...yet. I'm guessing not another tarmac rally event quite yet.

 

[Hydro]

I was testing at the Monaco Time Trial last night.

The car I tested was flat scary when set to specs, so need to keep working to find one I like.

Go on......
That's a downright evil tease Kevin

You need to go back to the Stu-y Vader pic if you plan to lay hints like that on your faithful WRS fans!

 

[LeftyWright69]

I'm thinking that an online race on dirt will be a dificult deal because of the rooster tail issues. The snow would be great also but w/ dirt or snow you can't see around the person you are trying to pass. Beleve me there is nothing I would like to do more then slide under someone to take the spot away but I don't think it would work out too good.

 

[EDK]

Go on......
That's a downright evil tease Kevin

You need to go back to the Stu-y Vader pic if you plan to lay hints like that on your faithful WRS fans!

The current one was taken of a Ferrari 599 at the Monterey Historic Races at Laguna last month. I didn't realize the road car brakes were carbon fiber, and thought at the time it would make a nice looking avvy, if only tempoary. Will either go back to Stewie, or move on to Steelers. We'll see how the Steelers do on Sunday night. Stewie is always on.

I'm thinking that an online race on dirt will be a dificult deal because of the rooster tail issues. The snow would be great also but w/ dirt or snow you can't see around the person you are trying to pass. Beleve me there is nothing I would like to do more then slide under someone to take the spot away but I don't think it would work out too good.

I've done a little online. I think as a for fun race would be best, but it's not as bad as you think. Nice thing on dirt is you can take alternate lines without messing up your lap too much.

 

[Gravitron]

Kev,
Currently drooling over that same event at Laguna on Speed TV.
How about a link to your trip report? Did you see the 787B or the many Ferrari 250 GTO's?

BTW, your PSN friends list appears full, wouldn't you need to "kick" someone in order to get into Tim's lounge?

 

[EDK]

Kev,
Currently drooling over that same event at Laguna on Speed TV.
How about a link to your trip report? Did you see the 787B or the many Ferrari 250 GTO's?

Here's my Photo Album from the event. No posted report. I normally have friends in that weekend, so I get too lazy and/or hungover to do that sort of thing.

Here's an admittedly crappy video of the 787B on start up. I was mixed up as to when the camera was and was not recording, so there are lots of pics of the ground. But the sound is fine. Well, more than fine.

Here's the 787B on track, from behind the fence between turns 3 and 4.

Finally, here's last year's album. Lots of vids of Trans Am cars.

BTW, your PSN friends list appears full, wouldn't you need to "kick" someone in order to get into Tim's lounge?

Easily sorted. I'll take care of that now.

 

[CSLACR]

Kev - Great video (second one ) and great sound on both.👍

Idea for rally race - Rally stages, to "avoid" the dust trails, fastest qualifier in the back, full (180second?) time for finish, start people as many seconds apart as the finish time should allow?

 

[Hydro]

What I wouldn't do to see the 787 up close, and actually running....WOW!
Up here (Toronto), all I get to see is the Toronto/Honda Indy.
To see anything else, TV it is

re: Rally events,
We had briefly considered a rally event, and that of course meant that "Gettin' Dirty.." was the event for consideration.
But we were really more interested in close racing, so it was put on the very unofficial "reserve" list.

Not at all ruling it out (or any Rally event for that matter), but we do test for each event to see how it translates to online racing, so at some point hopefully we can run a quick rally to see how it goes.

No one needs to sell me on it...
I picked up Dirt 3 to fill the void that GT couldn't, and was pleasantly surprised by the game in general. 👍

 

[jimantonic]

Here's an admittedly crappy video of the 787B on start up. But the sound is fine. Well, more than fine.

You can't beat the sound of a triple rotor wankel, a few years ago I went to Silverstone Classic (a similar deal to what you have been to at a guess) and they had a load of old group C cars on track, and a triple rotor Mazda just absolutely drowned the noise of ALL of the other cars out, I even recorded the sound on my mobile phone and had it as my ringtone for about a year afterwards!!
Does anyone know what time this event would translate to in UK time? Would love to have a run online with you guys, only I think its about half 3 in the morning!!

 

[Hydro]

HI jimantonic,
You are correct, the race starts at 3 am in your time zone (well, 3am GMT)

It would be great to see you on the track, especially as the D3 drivers are doing their best to 1up eachother daily in this WRS event 👍
I have posted that I would be willing to host a more UK friendly time slot if there is enough demand (even 4 would do).
So if any other drivers are having a look at this post / event, feel free to sound off, and we will definitely look into setting up a second room.
It's been a great couple of races so far
Marc

 

[T13R]

If nothing gets in the way, I should be there this week for quali and race.

 

[Sjaak]

HI jimantonic,
You are correct, the race starts at 3 am in your time zone (well, 3am GMT)

It would be great to see you on the track, especially as the D3 drivers are doing their best to 1up eachother daily in this WRS event 👍
I have posted that I would be willing to host a more UK friendly time slot if there is enough demand (even 4 would do).
So if any other drivers are having a look at this post / event, feel free to sound off, and we will definitely look into setting up a second room.
It's been a great couple of races so far
Marc

3 am midweek is impossible but I am keen to race in the UK time slot.