450pp Street Car Tuners Club -- Nightly 9:45-12:00 EDT

[Bahnzo]

Couple good races last night, but as with most public rooms, there was too much contact in the corners. I lol'd when the Italian guy running the 04 Elise would make comments about it being a good race when he would lead from the beginning and win by 20+ seconds.

He was intentionally running off the track in Turn 4 to do that (as well as the Elise being a beast). We should have a rule that you need to stay on the track. It's one thing to attack the curbs, but it's another to deliberately drive off the track to gain an advantage.

 

[Bahnzo]

Yeah I know that guy. i used to think i was doing something wrong...then i tried out the cars he runs and after winning by a huge gap i put them away and never take them out. That car simply has so much grip it makes driving effortless.

Another car to add to the "Can Not Use" list?

 

[chuyler1]

If you're talking about Nurb GP/F, it is common for drivers to run wide, but you need to keep 2 wheels inside the white line. Here's Schumaker's line. Note how tight he stays on turn 3 which sets him up perfectly for turn 4.



However I've seen drivers go much wider in-game on that turn.

 

[chuyler1]

Another car to add to the "Can Not Use" list?

On nights I host, there will almost never be a theme that will allow that car so it's up to Osprey whether it should be allowed on nurburg night.

 

[esoxhntr]

He was intentionally running off the track in Turn 4 to do that (as well as the Elise being a beast). We should have a rule that you need to stay on the track. It's one thing to attack the curbs, but it's another to deliberately drive off the track to gain an advantage.

we can have all the rules we want but that ones pretty unenforceable - unless you want to park your vehicle beyond the lines at t4 to cause people running wide to crash into you. it's just like the concrete everyone runs across on deep forest or running way wide on laguna's t1.

 

[Bahnzo]

If you're talking about Nurb GP/F, it is common for drivers to run wide, but you need to keep 2 wheels inside the white line. Here's Schumaker's line. Note how tight he stays on turn 3 which sets him up perfectly for turn 4.

Right, and that's not so bad. But this guy was completely going off the course. I have the replay saved and it's pretty bad. Not sure how to post them or I would.

I realize it's unenforceable to an extent, but there should be some respect for the rules and the course...like you say, keeping 2 wheels inside the white line.

 

[chuyler1]

Too bad you can't move one of the blocks from the final chicane and place it at turn 4.

In any case, I just follow the leader through there. If he gets on the gas and goes wide, I'll do the same...but if I'm in the lead, I'll take the turn appropriately. If someone tries to run wide and get the jump on me, I just stay on that side of the track and let them run into the dirt next to me. You race out of bounds, you stay out of bounds.

Same goes for deep forest reverse. If someone cuts across the track behind me I'll push them into the barrier as I set up for the next left. i could care less if you cut it...but you're not going to pass me doing it.

But in both cases drivers are expected to put some of their car over the edge to maintain a fast line...its just when all 4 tires end up on the other side of the line that things get questionable. If you are attempting to follow the race track its fine, but when you have developed a full throttle line that allows you to bypass a section of track, that's when I have issues...especially on real tracks like GP/F and Laguna where everyone knows what the line is supposed to be.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

we can have all the rules we want but that ones pretty unenforceable - unless you want to park your vehicle beyond the lines at t4 to cause people running wide to crash into you. it's just like the concrete everyone runs across on deep forest or running way wide on laguna's t1.

To me, driving over the sidewalk at Deep Forest is like cutting the chicane at Monza or La Sarthe or just driving across the grass at most tracks to cut the corner.

For that matter, I also think if you hit a cone at TGTT, then you've done it wrong.

 

[chuyler1]

i almost never race at TGTT because it isn't a track. It's a testing ground. There are no places to pass that don't involve cutting corners and/or knocking over cones.

 

[RotaryFreak]

back from vacation! what did i miss? aha! RX-8 night! hmmmmmm! nice!

 

[pyxen]

hey...thanks for the heads up on thread location, BTK...I'll try and make it out for some 450 nights.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

i almost never race at TGTT because it isn't a track. It's a testing ground. There are no places to pass that don't involve cutting corners and/or knocking over cones.

It also crosses over itself. Twice.

 

[BTK]

hey...thanks for the heads up on thread location, BTK...I'll try and make it out for some 450 nights.

No problem pyxen, like I said, it's a blast on night's we're not doing LeMons.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Crap, I just tuned up an Elise with some ballast on SS tires...lol. It is fast. The RX-8 is a very neutral car as it turns out, on SS tires. Very easy drive. Hopefully I'm still awake for a couple of races tonight.

 

[Johnnypenso]

One solution to the same driver racing the same car over and over, and winning, is to institute a policy that if you win once in a car you can't drive it again the rest of the night. Will take a bit of policing, mostly jotting down who won in what car after each race, but with only a handful or races each night it should be easily manageable.

 

[BTK]

We have the policy, and enforce it. Or they are not allowed to race the rest of the night.

I also had full intentions of racing tonight, but storms came and my power was out.

 

[Bones Brigade]

Blech. I love GP/F and it's easily one of my better tracks. I ended up driving like a d*ck to catch up after I penalized myself on turn 1. Didn't do anything that would show shades of AOK but I ended up quitting out of shame. Would have been cool to race up front.

I could have easily been running :15:7s during practice but after I set my first lap the chicane always had something going on and I couldn't take it full bore. Subsequent laps I was 4 tenths up by the second split but was flummoxed on the chicane.

 

[Johnnypenso]

We have the policy, and enforce it. Or they are not allowed to race the rest of the night.

Really? I don't remember seeing it anywhere.

 

[BTK]

Really? I don't remember seeing it anywhere.

It's a verbal agreement. If you win, you don't race the same car next race. If it constantly wins by huge margins in every race its in. Then it is no longer allowed to run the rest of the night. It's just a mutual agreement we have together. No need in writing it down. We're all friends, and understand how it works.

 

[Bones Brigade]

Every public room always devolves into a room of the two fastest cars. The idea of this group is to avoid that kind of grouping and have a wide variety of cars and encourage people to try new things. I try to use a different car every race if it's possible and only repeat if I felt like I was leaving a lot on the table. Variety is the spice of life.

 

[chuyler1]

Yeah, we basically like to see fair battles on the track. If a car takes off down the track and has the ability to win by more than 3-5 seconds (assuming the car in 2nd doesn't make any mistakes) then what's the fun in racing the car...it's a guaranteed winner and you'll just piss people off when you make mistakes and catch back up over and over again.

I had fun in the RX-8. It's one of my favorite cars to drive because it is balanced. You can add weight to other cars to get 50/50 but they will never have the neutral feeling of this car. I really don't understand why drivers were fighting over/understeer all night. I shared my tune just to get some more cars close to me...but we still had some tight battles and I fought my way to the front from the back of the grid a few times. I'll have to post the Tokyo video where I cut through the entire pack in a lap and a 1/2.

 

[cenk]

I was behind you for a while at tokyo, fell back to 3rd with big pressure from the 4th, made a last effort and finished 2nd..

I need some people to see what I did before the finish line. I have all the patience in the world against them but they need to learn not to intentionally drive people to barriers if they are coming up on them. That is weak lol.

PS: names are not important, it just gets annoying when you see the same guy blocking, not at tokyo, I dont want to point out which race.

btw, Chuy, did you look at the tune on that supra yet ? did you test it last night ?

 

[chuyler1]

Supra? No. I just ran laps in the ARTA NSX.

 

[dabneyd]

I was behind you for a while at tokyo, fell back to 3rd with big pressure from the 4th, made a last effort and finished 2nd..

I need some people to see what I did before the finish line. I have all the patience in the world against them but they need to learn not to intentionally drive people to barriers if they are coming up on them. That is weak lol.

PS: names are not important, it just gets annoying when you see the same guy blocking, not at tokyo, I dont want to point out which race.

btw, Chuy, did you look at the tune on that supra yet ? did you test it last night ?

It was me, I'll admit it, it was on Nurburgring GP-F and I did it on purpose. You have no place to complain about bad driving when there were multiple complaints about you last night and on previous nights. If I see you plow through my car and other cars while trying to dive-bomb through turns and you don't give back your position, you deserve what you get. Yes, you may be able to drive a faster line, but that does not give you the right to shove other cars out of the way.

 

[Bones Brigade]

I made a couple of questionable moves on Dabneyd last night. I think it was him, anyway. I made contact with him at the chicane and executed a divebomb at the hairpin.

I have to say though, that the divebomb was glorious. Wish I would have saved the replay. I quit right after that.

Nurb GP gets a bad rap from a lot of people but I love the track. Partly because it's one of the few tracks where I can run up front with anyone. I feel like I easily could have made the pass on T1 on iforce without contact. But I was too cautious on the entry and it messed me up on the exit. Maybe I shouldn't have penalized myself so harshly and just kept racing.

 

[chuyler1]

I just recorded the video. The problem with the track is that cars end up 3 and 4 wide after the first turn and it takes until turn 4 for the bumping and ramming to subside....especially since turn 3 requires a very late apex and cars always try to duck inside when you appear to brake early. After the first lap though, its a very fun track to race on if drivers keep the divebombing to a minimum.

BTW, there is a difference between a divebomb and a succesfull pass on the inside. I usually define the difference based on how far away you are before the braking starts. If you are within a car length, before you lift off the gas, you might be able to make it stick. If you are any further away, or you attempt to dart past more than one car...it's a divebomb and a d!ck move. You are most certainly going to push the other driver out when they turn in if you are that far back.

 

[Bones Brigade]

I was more than a car length back when he started braking. We were side by side around the time he needed to turn in. I had two wheels on the curbing the whole time. He may have adjusted his line a bit but I was underneath way before he needed to apex and I only started to come outside when I was clear.

I feel it was a clean pass, but not a necessary one, and a risky one. I find that people brake very early for that corner, though, and I calculated that I could keep my normal braking point without causing contact. That was the case, but I felt dirty afterward and had to go pick up dinner, so I quit.

 

[cenk]

It was me, I'll admit it, it was on Nurburgring GP-F and I did it on purpose. You have no place to complain about bad driving when there were multiple complaints about you last night and on previous nights. If I see you plow through my car and other cars while trying to dive-bomb through turns and you don't give back your position, you deserve what you get. Yes, you may be able to drive a faster line, but that does not give you the right to shove other cars out of the way.

Race track is not the place to hold grudges. I made mistakes on my 1st night, and I had apoligized for that. Yet, you and some others seem to act like a.holes towards me since then. I reset myself each race and do my best to drive clean, I usually dont event look at the names, just drive. When somebody is chasing you for 2 laps, maybe you should let him by and learn from his line. (ie: autumn ring)

The only big mistake i made last night was at GP/F, 1st lap, cooked one turn and hit Chuy, I backed off right away, let him and some others pass by, kind of a self punishment you can say.

Chuy, I sent you the supra so you could compare spring rates etc..It seemed to have good traction when we lapped 1:09s.

 

[chuyler1]

Thanks, I'll try the Supra. The host of the SuperGT series said he was only hitting 1:10 at DF in his NSX...so that makes me feel better. My final stint practicing last night I hit a 1:10.4 so I wasn't too far off, and a little draft would have put me in the 1:09s.

As for grudges, I don't think anyone holds them between evenings. I usually forget all about what happened...until I get bumped by someone and that's when it comes back. Middle-pack drivers are usually the ones who take the brunt of things. Being surrounded by drivers of varying skills usually means someone is going to get bumped a little...and often times you don't even know who caused it and you simply blame the guy that tries to get around you next. I always say to brake early the first few turns...or at least lift off the throttle early. I coast into turns when I'm behind someone and brake a little less. More often than not, I can still exit the turn at the same speed as them placing my car perfectly for a draft pass.

I didn't save the autumn ring video, but that track is very difficult to pass on. You've got to negotiate the final 3 turns perfectly to be close enough to draft. I was braking early for turn 1 and I think iForce followed me for one lap and took advantage of it on the next lap. We traded paint a little but then I let him go by me. I forget how I got back around him for the win though. You've got to keep in mind that the driver in front of you might actually be running a fast line...but they seem slow because you are drafting them the whole time.

 

[Bahnzo]

Yes, you may be able to drive a faster line, but that does not give you the right to shove other cars out of the way.

That's his problem, he is fast many times, but he lacks either the discipline or knowledge to wait and pick his spots to make a pass.

BTW, there is a difference between a divebomb and a succesfull pass on the inside. I usually define the difference based on how far away you are before the braking starts. If you are within a car length, before you lift off the gas, you might be able to make it stick. If you are any further away, or you attempt to dart past more than one car...it's a divebomb and a d!ck move. You are most certainly going to push the other driver out when they turn in if you are that far back.

Someone should really be along side the car when trying to out-brake into a corner. This leaves no confusion that a pass is to be attempted and allows both drivers to take appropriate lines into the corner to keep it clean. When you suddenly swing out under braking, the car in front of you has already committed to his normal line into/thru the corner and the passing car will hit him 9 outta 10 times.

When somebody is chasing you for 2 laps, maybe you should let him by and learn from his line. (ie: autumn ring)

The only big mistake i made last night was at GP/F, 1st lap, cooked one turn and hit Chuy, I backed off right away, let him and some others pass by, kind of a self punishment you can say.

Cenk.....that is entirely what is wrong. You think that since your are behind and faster than someone, they should let you by. It's your responsibility to make a clean pass...not their's to allow you thru because you might be faster.

Last nite, you tried to pass me in T4 at GP/F by going way wide off the track. Like Chuy said earlier, I stayed on the outside and forced you to go into the grass. But instead of backing off and coming back onto the track, you stayed on the throttle all the way in the grass to the next turn and then crashed into me to make that fast left hand turn. Total dick move.....

I've watched some races with you, and while it does appear you try to be clean, that only lasts so long before you say "Screw it!" and try to pass any way you can. Relax, and pick your spots and do it cleanly. Stop with the divebombs, stop with the trying to pass in high speed corners...it just causes wrecks.