450pp Street Car Tuners Club -- Nightly 9:45-12:00 EDT

[cenk]

Thanks, I'll try the Supra. The host of the SuperGT series said he was only hitting 1:10 at DF in his NSX...so that makes me feel better. My final stint practicing last night I hit a 1:10.4 so I wasn't too far off, and a little draft would have put me in the 1:09s.

As for grudges, I don't think anyone holds them between evenings. I usually forget all about what happened...until I get bumped by someone and that's when it comes back. Middle-pack drivers are usually the ones who take the brunt of things. Being surrounded by drivers of varying skills usually means someone is going to get bumped a little...and often times you don't even know who caused it and you simply blame the guy that tries to get around you next. I always say to brake early the first few turns...or at least lift off the throttle early. I coast into turns when I'm behind someone and brake a little less. More often than not, I can still exit the turn at the same speed as them placing my car perfectly for a draft pass.

I didn't save the autumn ring video, but that track is very difficult to pass on. You've got to negotiate the final 3 turns perfectly to be close enough to draft. I was braking early for turn 1 and I think iForce followed me for one lap and took advantage of it on the next lap. We traded paint a little but then I let him go by me. I forget how I got back around him for the win though. You've got to keep in mind that the driver in front of you might actually be running a fast line...but they seem slow because you are drafting them the whole time.

yeah 1:07s are alien territory, you shocked me when you told me that lap time T1 was where I was losing the rear end a bit..tricky there with race mediums.

The whole track in a superGT car is nuts good luck with it, let me know how you like my tune.

 

[cenk]

That's his problem, he is fast many times, but he lacks either the discipline or knowledge to wait and pick his spots to make a pass.



Someone should really be along side the car when trying to out-brake into a corner. This leaves no confusion that a pass is to be attempted and allows both drivers to take appropriate lines into the corner to keep it clean. When you suddenly swing out under braking, the car in front of you has already committed to his normal line into/thru the corner and the passing car will hit him 9 outta 10 times.



Cenk.....that is entirely what is wrong. You think that since your are behind and faster than someone, they should let you by. It's your responsibility to make a clean pass...not their's to allow you thru because you might be faster.

Last nite, you tried to pass me in T4 at GP/F by going way wide off the track. Like Chuy said earlier, I stayed on the outside and forced you to go into the grass. But instead of backing off and coming back onto the track, you stayed on the throttle all the way in the grass to the next turn and then crashed into me to make that fast left hand turn. Total dick move.....

I've watched some races with you, and while it does appear you try to be clean, that only lasts so long before you say "Screw it!" and try to pass any way you can. Relax, and pick your spots and do it cleanly. Stop with the divebombs, stop with the trying to pass in high speed corners...it just causes wrecks.

LOL

werent you all the way left at the last turn at GVE, just to to block me from outbraking you ? You leave the racing line and merge left/right before the apexes just to block people, I know your intension is not taking the turn fast, note that.

And didnt you drive me into the pit lane when I was passing you on the straight ?

Didnt you block Benz on the main straight ?

and didnt I follow you & dabneyd for 1.5 laps last night before I passed you ? and you just left the room, that was a balsy move I admit, but you could have avoided contact while I was passing you, you made it more difficult, I was half way out, 2 tires still on the track gaining on you

As I said, no need to hold grudges. Drive clean, at least on the straights lol

 

[IforceV8]

I didn't save the autumn ring video, but that track is very difficult to pass on. You've got to negotiate the final 3 turns perfectly to be close enough to draft. I was braking early for turn 1 and I think iForce followed me for one lap and took advantage of it on the next lap. We traded paint a little but then I let him go by me. I forget how I got back around him for the win though. You've got to keep in mind that the driver in front of you might actually be running a fast line...but they seem slow because you are drafting them the whole time.

Right after i passed you i had massive understeer all the way to T1 were i ran wide and had a tank slapper when i touched the grass.I was killing you in the last 2 turns but came up about 3 feet short at the line.

The only issue i had on-track was at Fuji when ghosty passed me with the draft and then dove right infront of me at the 200m mark in the braking zone into turn 1.I adjusted my line to the inside and there was no contact but i did say something about it on the mic and that was the end of it.Honestly i more pissed about being on pole and starting 11th.

One of the biggest problems i have seen online is that just because you have made a pass doesnt mean that you are now automatically awarded any part of the track that suits you,especially at the end of a high speed straight so close to the braking zone.

 

[chuyler1]

There was an article in "GT Life", the user contributed GTPlanet magazine that talked about that exact situation. When you draft someone down a long straight, if you make it past with 50% straight remaining, by all means use the whole track on the next turn. If there is less than 25% straight left, it is safer to just keep your car straight entering the braking zone as to allow the other driver to brake at their own point. Cutting across someone's nose is asking to get rear ended.

Another think I see is when a driver obviously favors one side of the track on a straight (usually the inside line for the up coming turn) and another driver drafts and cuts further in. If there is 80% track available on the left and barely a car width on the right...they are giving you the left...so take it. Don't squeeze in the right and try to push them to the left so you can have the inside. When drivers do this to me...I won't move. You'll have to negotiate the next turn deep inside so good luck with that.

There is also the issue of pushing drivers out when you do get the inside line. You've got to be careful to leave at least 1 car width on the exit of the turn. If they can use that car width to stay along side you, well, the pass isn't complete yet...you better hope the next turn favors your side of the track. I'll admit, I cut it close sometimes, but I always try to leave enough room for side-by-side racing.

 

[Bahnzo]

werent you all the way left at the last turn at GVE, just to to block me from outbraking you ? You leave the racing line and merge left/right before the apexes just to block people, I know your intension is not taking the turn fast, note that.

and didnt I follow you & dabneyd for 1.5 laps last night before I passed you ? and you just left the room, that was a balsy move I admit, but you could have avoided contact while I was passing you, you made it more difficult, I was half way out, 2 tires still on the track gaining on you

I will block going into corners if I think I need to...it's called racing. Taking the inside line into a corner to force another car to pass outside is simple strategy. And the GVE race you mention? Yeah, the one where I did block on the inside line and you went into the grass, hit me, pushed me off the track to make your pass? Yeah, that one.

Like I said, you seem to show moments of good racing, but it goes up in smoke more often than not. Sorry, but going full throttle on the grass, and then banging into my car to make a corner isn't a "ballsy move". It's stupid.

 

[Benz-27]

I feel I need to jump in as my name has been mentioned. Bahnzo, you did block me twice at GVE-R and I was clearly faster than you whether it be because of the draft or just a better exit than you. Please just don't do it again. All I have to say is that if you're on this forum, you know when you're being dirty and just making excuses. There should be no explaining needed if you've read the GTP OLR carefully.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

I will block going into corners if I think I need to...it's called racing. Taking the inside line into a corner to force another car to pass outside is simple strategy.

I second this. Just because you are faster, doesn't mean I'm wrong. I know you will pull away if I let you by. Sometimes, my only option is to take a slower line through the corner just so I can keep the inside and force those behind me to take me on the outside (in the hopes that they can't). If they do get by me, they will easily leave me and I'm back to driving by myself.

I really wanted to make the RX-8 night. I like the RX-8 tune that I found, but my daughter just pushed my buttons and made me ill.

 

[Bahnzo]

I feel I need to jump in as my name has been mentioned. Bahnzo, you did block me twice at GVE-R and I was clearly faster than you whether it be because of the draft or just a better exit than you. Please just don't do it again. All I have to say is that if you're on this forum, you know when you're being dirty and just making excuses.

I blocked *once*. I will make one move to block, and no more (just as is allowed in most real life racing). I move to block one time and force you to make an adjustment. If you can't do that and run into me....<shrug>. I will not weave, I will not turn into you if you get along side me (something I've seen and experienced). Just being faster doesn't automatically mean you get let past.

 

[Benz-27]

I second this. Just because you are faster, doesn't mean I'm wrong. I know you will pull away if I let you by. Sometimes, my only option is to take a slower line through the corner just so I can keep the inside and force those behind me to take me on the outside (in the hopes that they can't). If they do get by me, they will easily leave me and I'm back to driving by myself.

I really wanted to make the RX-8 night. I like the RX-8 tune that I found, but my daughter just pushed my buttons and made me ill.

Why would you do this? The people that are fast have put tons of hours into getting faster. Why should we put all of this effort into our racing, only to get blocked by a slower person. It's like getting a high killstreak in CoD and the game doesn't let you use it. Don't take this offensively but if you're slower than somebody else, that means you need to practice. Do what you want but you won't make many friends that way.

 

[IforceV8]

I have no sympathy for blockers.You get one line change to defend a position,thats it as far as i am concerned.If you start swerving all over the track to block i for one will punt you off and smile about it afterwards.


Chuyler-The perfect example of the hip check move was Hamilton @ GP-F vs Webber exiting turn 2.

 

[Bahnzo]

Why would you do this? The people that are fast have put tons of hours into getting faster. Why should we put all of this effort into our racing, only to get blocked by a slower person.

Because it's a "racing" game, not a "hot-lap" game. Racing involves more than just being fast. Strategy, adjusting your line, forcing other cars to adjust theirs, etc is all part of the sport. You really expect a slower driver to just pull aside to allow you thru because you are faster?

 

[Benz-27]

Because it's a "racing" game, not a "hot-lap" game. Racing involves more than just being fast. Strategy, adjusting your line, forcing other cars to adjust theirs, etc is all part of the sport. You really expect a slower driver to just pull aside to allow you thru because you are faster?

I don't mean to just pull over but don't try to intentionally block me. Do you think GT2 cars would try to block LMP cars?

 

[Bahnzo]

I don't mean to just pull over but don't try to intentionally block me. Do you think GT2 cars would try to block LMP cars?

Completely different. We are not two different classes of cars. Everyone is racing the same PP level cars.

 

[chuyler1]

I didn't save the GVE race. All I remember is touching the grass in first place at the top of the hill and drifting sideways all the way to the hairpin. Someone tried to cut inside me during this time and I think I may have bumped them into the wall.

It sounds to me like drivers are blocking on the straights. The GTP OLR is pretty clear in this regard. You can basically do what F1/Indy does. Exiting the turn before the straight you can continue to turn so you are on the inside. Then at any point down the straight you can move from inside to outside. If someone comes up fast, whether its via draft or better racing...after you've made your move, if they can adjust their line and pas s you on the other side, let them. You've got the rest of the race to pass them back. The only exception we allow is on the final straight of the final lap. If you've worked hard to stay ahead the entire race, I'd think you are entitled to blocking the car behind from passing you at the start/finish using the highly inaccurate drafting capabilities in the game.

 

[Bahnzo]

It sounds to me like drivers are blocking on the straights. The GTP OLR is pretty clear in this regard. You can basically do what F1/Indy does. Exiting the turn before the straight you can continue to turn so you are on the inside. Then at any point down the straight you can move from inside to outside. If someone comes up fast, whether its via draft or better racing...after you've made your move, if they can adjust their line and pas s you on the other side, let them. You've got the rest of the race to pass them back. The only exception we allow is on the final straight of the final lap. If you've worked hard to stay ahead the entire race, I'd think you are entitled to blocking the car behind from passing you at the start/finish using the highly inaccurate drafting capabilities in the game.

Thank you. One move, like I said.

 

[chuyler1]

Just to reiterate...swerving down the straight is prohibitted according to the GTP OLR and will not be tolerated in this lounge. One move is all you get (except last lap as mentioned previously). If someone can draft pass you...well tough luck, you can draft pass them back and/or follow and wait to make your move at a point that will allow you to pull away without them drafting.

 

[Benz-27]

Completely different. We are not two different classes of cars. Everyone is racing the same PP level cars.

That may be true but we all aren't on the same skill level. Have you ever noticed how there's always a group of cars that just completely pull away from the rest of the competition. Sort of like LMP cars do to GT cars. You don't get faster by blocking. As this was once said, if you see a faster guy coming up, let him by and follow him. You can see his line and where he brakes, and this may get you a little faster. Like I said, if you're on this forum, you know when you're doing something you shouldn't be doing.

 

[Bahnzo]

That may be true but we all aren't on the same skill level. Have you ever noticed how there's always a group of cars that just completely pull away from the rest of the competition. Sort of like LMP cars do to GT cars. You don't get faster by blocking. As this was once said, if you see a faster guy coming up, let him by and follow him. You can see his line and where he brakes, and this may get you a little faster. Like I said, if you're on this forum, you know when you're being a d!ck.

Well, we can disagree then. Early in a race, I may let someone thru that I know is faster. No sense trying to hold them up. But later in a race, I'm going to block you. Plain and simple. I don't care so much that you are faster, I'm trying to hold my position. I'm not there to try and learn from you, I can save a replay for that and see your braking points, etc.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

Why would you do this? The people that are fast have put tons of hours into getting faster. Why should we put all of this effort into our racing, only to get blocked by a slower person. It's like getting a high killstreak in CoD and the game doesn't let you use it. Don't take this offensively but if you're slower than somebody else, that means you need to practice. Do what you want but you won't make many friends that way.

This is a tuning club, so even if I were as good a driver as everyone else, we aren't all in the same car. So point still remains. Sometimes the only chance a slower driver/car has at finishing well is to hold the inside line. That is racing.

I don't understand why you want people to give you a free pass in competition.

As an aside, the easiest way to pass me is to just wait. I still let the traffic get to me and I push too hard and I will wreck.

I have no sympathy for blockers.You get one line change to defend a position,thats it as far as i am concerned.If you start swerving all over the track to block i for one will punt you off and smile about it afterwards.

I second this. It is F1 rules.

Bowtie and I had a nasty wreck in the last race of the last Lemon series because he was blocking hard. Sad thing is, if he had let me by as he should've, I think he would've caught me in the bends and had a good chance at passing me back before the finish.


p.s. Heh, there was another page of posts that I didn't see when I posted this. I didn't understand the confusion. I'm talking about holding the inside line on a corner, not zig zagging on the straight. Sorry for the confusion.

To give an example: the last hairpin at Tsukuba. If I am alone, I approach that right-hander on the left side of the track. My left wheels may even touch the grass. I brake and take a wide turn through that corner. If there is traffic behind me, I will approach that corner from the right side of the track. I'll go slower through the corner, but it forces those behind me to take an outside line. If they can hold the outside and pass me, great. If not, they can try on the straight.

Or just wait for me to wreck.

 

[Benz-27]

This is my last post on this topic. I'm done arguing. I didn't ask for a free pass or for somebody to just pull over. I don't mind blocking for a corner or two, but don't take the defensive line the whole lap when somebody faster than you is behind you. Thats's all I'm saying

 

[chuyler1]

If the battle is for first place...I absolutely do (except for the straights). For something in between with plenty of racing left to do...let the faster car by and draft them around the track. It worked wonders in lemons racing when I was down upwards of 30-40pp on the other cars. I could run faster laps trailing faster cars than I could on my own.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Honestly i more pissed about being on pole and starting 11th.

Welcome to my lemons hell. I was on pole or 2nd tues and/or wed 5-6 times and started last or second to last every time. a couple times I drove into the pit, once I exited to pit road(but no lobby) but both nights at Monaco last season, I waited on track on the first corner, never left, and started last. But hey, I took podium both nights so perhaps starting at the back kept me out of early trouble

------------------------------------

Taking the inside line into a corner to force another car to pass outside is simple strategy.

This works in lobbys where you're aware of each others skillsets. However, in open rooms you have to assume a bit. If you're wrong, the lead driver could understeer and you're %#$, if he oversteers, you're %&*#^ and even if neither happens he can still decide to slide up the corner at the exit to push you out. That never shows up on replay, but we all know whats happening. If you enter with an inside line...see it out. I hate folks who cross lines before or at the apex. Most cars in this range on SS tires cannot adjust pre-apex and dive down to stop this maneuver. Unless its an MR vs FF and the guys average at best

-------------------------------------------

Oh, and a second or third here for punting folks who swerve. I too will afterwards. You can learn a lot more watching from behind then blocking from in front. If you have no desire to become better...play the arcade version and bash your way through it.

 

[cenk]

Well, we can disagree then. Early in a race, I may let someone thru that I know is faster. No sense trying to hold them up. But later in a race, I'm going to block you. Plain and simple. I don't care so much that you are faster, I'm trying to hold my position. I'm not there to try and learn from you, I can save a replay for that and see your braking points, etc.

You are under pressure the whole time, where is the joy of it ?

I'm not telling to move over, but dont push people to the pit wall when they are already next to you.

Just concentrate on being faster on the track instead of sharpening your defensive skills.

I did an anti-draft move at tokyo before the straight and held my breath till the finish line. I can't tell you how much fun was that ! I finished 0.050ish ahead of 3rd place.

 

[Bahnzo]

I didn't ask for a free pass or for somebody to just pull over <snip> but don't take the defensive line the whole lap when somebody faster than you is behind you. Thats's all I'm saying

So, you don't want a free pass, but you want people to let you thru because you faster? Got it...

 

[Bahnzo]

You are under pressure the whole time, where is the joy of it ?

Just concentrate on being faster on the track instead of sharpening your defensive skills.

The joy is fending off a superior opponent to hold your position by using defensive driving skills. If you can't get around it by adjusting your line and using your own superior speed, then don't get frustrated and just barge people out of the way instead.

We all want to be faster, but driving defensively is a crucial part of racecraft. Just because it frustrates you, doesn't mean it's wrong.

 

[Benz-27]

So, you don't want a free pass, but you want people to let you thru because you faster? Got it...

Wow, you are really starting to get annoying. How can you quote me on half of what I said. You cut out the part where I said I don't mind blocking on a corner or two. Come on, really?

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

Wow, you are really starting to get annoying. How can you quote me on half of what I said. You cut out the part where I said I don't mind blocking on a corner or two. Come on, really?

I'm with Bahnzo. Hold the inside line on as many corners as possible. If you really are faster/better, you will get by cleanly.

If not, it will be a dramatic race, and that's really what the crowd wants.

 

[Nicktune]

Huyler are you opening a Super GT test room tonight?I'm running 1'10 flat with the nsx (Racing medium) but with my others non nsx super GT I'm running high 1'08 (Racing medium).We need more work to be competitive....

 

[Bahnzo]

Wow, you are really starting to get annoying. How can you quote me on half of what I said. You cut out the part where I said I don't mind blocking on a corner or two. Come on, really?

I snipped it because you are basically saying what I quoted. Saying that it's ok to block for a corner or two, but not the whole time, because you are faster? Same as saying you deserve to be let by.

 

[Benz-27]

Ok well I'm calling my side of the arguement off, I hate arguing.