450pp Street Car Tuners Club -- Nightly 9:45-12:00 EDT

  • Thread starter Thread starter chuyler1
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OMG, I just wrote a massive reply then accidentally hit back and now it is gone :( Let me try again.

Chuyler - You hit the nail on the head with regards to the first lap being about getting in single file

Booch16 - I don't agree with your comment about the random track. We all know in advance where the race is going to be, so if people are willing to put in the time to practice the track and tune their car they should be rewarded for that

It is a bit idealistic to think that online drivers (even in the 450pp club) will ever show the same etiquette as professional drivers but hopefully if we put measures in place it can be improved a bit. If the starts are getting sloppy and the culprits can be identified maybe it is worth singling them out (either in the room or on the board) - not as an attack, but just so they are aware of what they are doing. I honestly think that drivers who tend to plow through or push people out either:
1/ Aren't aware of the OLR
2/ Just don't realise that they exhibit such behaviour

Another thing which has been mentioned to me is when a slower driver leads a faster driver on a track, there have been instances where the faster driver shows more fender "love" than usual. While I can't recall this happening to me (I generally get out of the way), I'd like to know what the expected etiquette for this is. I would've thought that the driver behind (regardless of whether they are elite or not) should be observing the OLR rules and leaving space for the car in front instead of taunting them to get out of the way by bumping them. Comments?
 
fatrab
Another thing which has been mentioned to me is when a slower driver leads a faster driver on a track, there have been instances where the faster driver shows more fender "love" than usual. While I can't recall this happening to me (I generally get out of the way), I'd like to know what the expected etiquette for this is. I would've thought that the driver behind (regardless of whether they are elite or not) should be observing the OLR rules and leaving space for the car in front instead of taunting them to get out of the way by bumping them. Comments?
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I try to avoid bumper love on corners no matter how slow the guy in front is, however, on a straight, if I don't feel I can make a safe pass and I/we are trying to chase down the leader(s) I will bump draft you in an effort to at least close the gap with the lead. I would think this would be viewed as a positive thing though, but I could also see it being viewed as track bullying.
 
its fun driving the TT last night although other might disagree :lol:,
it was me and RockinVs tuning it the day before in the Ring.
Last night race was more of a driver error on my part as i missed my braking point and run wide into the sand trap the first race, after that i played catch-up the whole race.
Was actually surprise how the TT performed in Cape Ring, the grip was much improved, i felt like i can go WOT without running wild especially in the carousel as well as the downhill s-section. I was passing cars left and right, but couldnt maintain 1st place for fear of running wide especially with AOK on my tail. :nervous: I have to factor in trying to prevent punting somebody too.
 
Noticed a lot of lag (AOK was jumping and the track was pixelated) in the race at Cape Ring. Also from the lag, my car was understeering and losing front grip everytime I got close to another car (this is like the 4th or 5th time I have experienced this--Comcast at fault?). Then got bumped off after the carousel at lap 1 by someone. Limped home in next to last place. Good fun.
 
st1sj
Noticed a lot of lag (AOK was jumping and the track was pixelated) in the race at Cape Ring. Also from the lag, my car was understeering and losing front grip everytime I got close to another car (this is like the 4th or 5th time I have experienced this--Comcast at fault?). Then got bumped off after the carousel at lap 1 by someone. Limped home in next to last place. Good fun.
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Nope, not Comcast as I have FiOS and was feeling the same effects. It was like driving with stock everything on comfort softs in race. I was at least 5 secs slower in my laptimes versus free run. My rims also defaulted to the original ones for that race and Rome, and then back to what I had painted a new set the next race.
 
ive noticed a couple people have, but if anyone needs cars for the expert seasonal event, please feel free to borrow them if you are on my friends list.

i see chuyler did, and won all the races. they are hand tuned by me... so drive at your own risk. :D
 
These lag problems had been on and off. Others have it, others dont. I can attest that in Cape RIng my car actually felt like it was on rails. But the other night on the RIng, i think it was Booch who for 1 sec was in front me the next second he was like a mile ahead.
 
There was definitely lag at Cape Ring. My car went wide on a turn and unless PD implemented grass getting stuck to my tires I was driving on comfort soft tires for the next few turns as cars went sailing past me.

I really, REALLY, wish PD would implement fast forward / rewind. However I think some of my next videos are going to highlight good and bad passes. I noticed especially when cars were running in a pack that drivers toward the back were trying to nose into apexes. Unless the driver in front of you runs wide by a whole car length, you shouldn't be trying to squeeze yourself into a space you cannot occupy.

I don't want to single out specific drivers but I may have to do just that in order to get the point across. Driver error is one thing, aggressive reckless driving is another. In addition to brushing up on the GTP_OLR, everyone should also read the driver ettiquette article in the GT Life second issue. It has some good pointers about when to pass and when to fall in line.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=153317

Oh, and bump drafting is a great way to turn a 3-way battle into a 2-way battle. When you've got 5-10 laps to race, give the car in front of you a bump so both of you can catch up. Even if you are in 2nd place, bumping the first place guy will help you pull away from anyone drafting you. However, don't bump anywhere near the braking zone. A few bumps early on a straight is sufficient. You have to remember that your increased speed means the braking point will come much sooner than expected.
 
chuyler1
There was definitely lag at Cape Ring. My car went wide on a turn and unless PD implemented grass getting stuck to my tires I was driving on comfort soft tires for the next few turns as cars went sailing past me.
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They did. Takes a few seconds for dirt to clear off. Really noticeable on Laguna if you get into the sand where previously, there didn't appear to be any or minimal ill-effects. If you cut the corkscrew, the following high-speed left will be hard to negotiate at regular speeds.
 
That must have been it then. I went wide and picked up grass and it took several turns to regain my grip.
 
Kept losing my connection last night. I'm pretty disappointed since I was running near the front in the first race.
 
The lag that affected me, and apparently ESH, makes the car feel like there is no front downforce/grip at all. Just understeers like crazy. That is different than running on dirt/grass. I read elsewhere that the latest update did the dirt/grass thing to discourage rubberband grind.

As for the bumping, I'm usually mid field or slower, so I just try to have a good race. I think I have only won one race at Monza so far. The 2nd place guy was pretty aggressive, but then again, different people have different meaning on aggressive driving.

I drive like my grandmother is in the passenger seat, and I wish more people would drive like that. It would certainly stop the bumping. Ha.
 
fatrab
Another thing which has been mentioned to me is when a slower driver leads a faster driver on a track, there have been instances where the faster driver shows more fender "love" than usual. While I can't recall this happening to me (I generally get out of the way), I'd like to know what the expected etiquette for this is. I would've thought that the driver behind (regardless of whether they are elite or not) should be observing the OLR rules and leaving space for the car in front instead of taunting them to get out of the way by bumping them. Comments?
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Well said Fatrab, its always my attitude that if your faster than me in the straights, i usually let you pass but in the corners you have to earn it to pass me as i wont give up easily. :sly:

i dont mind to be pointed out if it was my mistake. 👍
 
exohntr
I try to avoid bumper love on corners no matter how slow the guy in front is, however, on a straight, if I don't feel I can make a safe pass and I/we are trying to chase down the leader(s) I will bump draft you in an effort to at least close the gap with the lead. I would think this would be viewed as a positive thing though, but I could also see it being viewed as track bullying.
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Yeah, the incident mentioned to me was bumping through corners. Definitely have no issue with bump drafting.

chuyler1
I really, REALLY, wish PD would implement fast forward / rewind.
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I couldn't believe it when I could not find the option for FWD/REW to find out it had not (and still has not) been implemented.
 
Nurburgring GP/F



First turn. I stayed inside and misjudged how slow we were going to take the first turn and I bumped sl3ight. I lifted off and as a result 3 cars passed me.

Second and Third turn. Brandofo must have thought if he kept hitting me I would go away. I held my line. Some of that may have been lag but it was pretty annoying to get repeatedly tapped when I was providing more than enough track to my right.

Turn 7 (Ford). There was a slow car on the grass inside so I started with a wide approach and then came in for a late apex. Low and behold brandofo's nose sticks in there for what would have been a dirty pass.

Turn 8 (dunlop). Cheezeburger was on the inside but just as we approached the turn his car started to wander toward me. I freaked out and touched the grass and drifted around the turn.

Turn 9 (schumaker s). I lifted off considerably for entry. Cheezburger went wide into the dirt and then upon re-entry knocked me off the track. Probably my fault for not lifting when I saw him in the dirt. Either way I would have lost positions.

Turn 11. I missed the apex (likely due to sand on my tire). brandofo hit it right for a clean pass.

Chicane. I drafted and got alongside brandofo. I thought he was going to yield but he didn't and went pretty fast through the first apex on my outside. I ducked inside for a faster exit

Lap 2 turn 1. brandofo draft passed me and I gave him the inside. I thought I'd be able to get under him exiting the turn but he did a good job braking and maintaining speed for the exit.

Lap 2 chicane. brandofo divebombs and slows everyone down through the chicane so I could catch up. Then it looks as though he uses GTP_esh to make his turn stick before the straight.

On the straight I gave esh a few bumps to catch back up but I forgot to shift to 6th gear. whoops. He missed the turn 1 apex by few feet, enough for me to scoot around. Unless there was lag contact, i think that was a clean pass.

Lap 3 dunlop and schumaker s. k_reins goes wide on dunlop. cheezeburger didn't give him much room to run the outside line but i don't think that caused reins to slow down. The issue was that reins didn't have the draft out of the turn and then he had to make the inside line into schumaker stick. I placed my bets on cheezeburger getting a faster exit and followed him through the turn. Then i gave him a few bumps so we could catch up to brandofo. Unforutnately cheezeburger wasn't prepared for the extra speed and went wide on the next turn.

Lap 3 chicane. k_reins completely misses the brake zone and slows down my line through the chicane...my hopes of catching brandofo were lost at that point.

Not much happened for me the rest of the race. I was chasing down brandofo a little bit at a time. Not sure though because there is no split between you and the car in front of you. I thought I was making progress but then Bowtie fell behind and brandofo was able to draft with him so I had no chance of catching them, especially with worn tires.

Anyway, the remainder of the race switches to the top 4 racers, which were running very clean. Wish I could've been up there with them.
 
Last night one-make: Audi TT action on Cape Ring:

at the start

1st Turn

mid pack entering the carousel

a view from the end

real man wear pink!!

catching air

fighting for grip

trio of some nice looking TTs! FTW!

Yours truly exhibiting smoke screen!

drafting galore on the second lap
 
RotaryFreak
These lag problems had been on and off. Others have it, others dont. I can attest that in Cape RIng my car actually felt like it was on rails. But the other night on the RIng, i think it was Booch who for 1 sec was in front me the next second he was like a mile ahead.
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i been doing a lot of ring practice and watching ring videos online, i like to think it paid off, but ya, lag is def an issue at times :sick:
 
polizei
i been doing a lot of ring practice and watching ring videos online, i like to think it paid off, but ya, lag is def an issue at times :sick:
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i can say it paid off, all i can see is your rear end every wednesday night! 👍
 
chuyler1
Nurburgring GP/F

Lap 2 chicane. brandofo divebombs and slows everyone down through the chicane so I could catch up. Then it looks as though he uses GTP_esh to make his turn stick before the straight.
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Someone was trying to make it 3 wide in the straight leading up to the chicane but didn't get completely around me. I got bounced around before brandofo got there but he put the finishing touches on that cluster eff.
 
Suzuka -- a very messy start that i will try to make some sense of from my POV...



First off, someone went flying off into the sand because they didn't brake for the first turn. I don't know who that was and i can't tell from the video because their name drops from first to last.

Sio-Xie and miata_1 make contact in front of me and both of them slow to a crawl. This causes a massive accordion pileup with everyone bumping everyone else causing half of the leaders to run wide on the 2nd apex. Ghosty ducks inside of me and slingshots past...which makes it painfully obvious how slow we were going at that point.

This is the reason we need to go from double-file to single-file. If you fight the guy next to you for position in the first turn, both of you are going to lose to someone behind.

One the esses, people still weren't ready to accept single-file racing. cheezeburger was pushing hard for an opening and thankfully he backed off instead of pushing me off the track. However ghosty tapped the brakes on the right-hander and I had to brake as well (might have lightly tapped him because I wasn't expecting it). That was all it took for cheezeburger to duck inside.

On the next section, a few more cars attempted to make it 2-wide racing and it further slowed the pack down enough for me to pull ahead. Ghosty pushed Sio-Xie off the track in a very poor pass. They both ended up losing multiple positions because of it.

On the hairpin, if you watch my rearview, everyone gets pushy as they try to run 3-wide into the turn. AOK wins out because he's on the inside and can use Ghosty to carve out his turn.

130R. Cujo and Twitchie, rather than work together decide to battle for position. That allows me to catch up. Cujo does a horrible job at trying to stick the inside of the turn. In an effort to protect his lead, he ruins the race for both of them as I skoot on past the mayhem.

Chicane. More battling for position behind me and everyone ends up slower through the chicane.

Lap 2 Turn 1 from brandofo's point of view. Both AOK and Cujo drift through the corner. Brandofo takes the inside and manages to come out ahead. Nothing wrong here. If drivers have no hope of hitting their apexes, and you can safely situate yourself inside while leaving plenty of track for them...its ok by me.

Lap 2 back straight. I misjudge my speed and run wide before the straight. brandofo catches up and pulls ahead on the straight. Rather than challenge him, I duck behind and give him a few bumps so we can pull away from AOK. However I hesitated at 130R and AOK tried to divebomb me at the chicane. Good thing penalties were on because that would have been a massive punt.

Lap 3 turn 1. brandofo drifts wide and I get the lead without any shenanigans.

Lap 3 130R. AOK gets my draft but I choose left. If he wants to pass, he's going to have to get it done on the outside. As we approach 130R, he lifts off, I see this so I pull back outside and take the turn at full speed.

Lap 3 chicane. AOK thinks about his divebomb again but brakes to avoid hitting me. His deep inside line ends up giving a slower exit so he doesn't stay on my bumper for the exit. On the front straight I take the inside again and make sure its obvious I want the inside. When he lifts off again, I go outside so I can take the turn at full speed.

Lap 4 turn 6. AOK finally gets a jump on me but I force him to the outside for the turn. He barely gets a nose on me but I have the right of way on the inside. He never checked to see whether he had cleared me and turns in for the apex at the same time as me. This pass will never happen. End of story. If you are on the outside for this turn you cannot make it stick. Simply put, if you can't get the inside line, you might as well just pull in behind.

Lap 5. I basically slowed my pace a little bit for this lap. I didn't want to leave any open apexes. The final chicane I went very slow because I knew if I didn't occupy the track brandofo could fly past me. There isn't enough track to draft pass to the finish line so as long as I held the lead through the chicane the win was mine.
 
Rome Reverse



This was probably one of the cleaner starts of the night from my cockpit. I was attempting to cleanly follow k_reins into turn 1 without incident but when he never turned in and Twitchie went flying past me, I gave up on reins and switched gears to go inside. Not sure what line the leaders were attempting to take but i wasn't going to wait around to find out while other cars flew up the inside.

After that, there was some excitement at the kink but it was all clean until the last turn of the race brandofo punted me. I've seen people take different lines through this turn and he had yet to follow me through it...but i was already off the brakes and on the gas when he hit me. I never even had full brakes applied so the hit was completely uncalled for. Good thing I had enough grip to recover from it.
 
chuyler1
Suzuka -- a very messy start that i will try to make some sense of from my POV...

First off, someone went flying off into the sand because they didn't brake for the first turn. I don't know who that was and i can't tell from the video because their name drops from first to last.

Sio-Xie and miata_1 make contact in front of me and both of them slow to a crawl. This causes a massive accordion pileup with everyone bumping everyone else causing half of the leaders to run wide on the 2nd apex. Ghosty ducks inside of me and slingshots past...which makes it painfully obvious how slow we were going at that point.

On the next section, a few more cars attempted to make it 2-wide racing and it further slowed the pack down enough for me to pull ahead. Ghostly pushed Sio-Xie off the track in a very poor pass. They both ended up losing multiple positions because of it.
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If im correct, it was GTP_esh who was in front of me that went wide the first turn. We didnt make contact and i have to slow down trying to avoid him. Miata1 was eating up my line, he was trying to cut the inside lane even when i have the line as you can see in the replay. Nothing major though, to what Ghostly did to me as what Chuyler stated as a overly agressive poor pass! :mad: i lost valuable positions coz of it. Agression is good, but it needs proper timing.
 
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chuyler1
Rome Reverse
After that, there was some excitement at the kink but it was all clean until the last turn of the race brandofo punted me. I've seen people take different lines through this turn and he had yet to follow me through it...but i was already off the brakes and on the gas when he hit me. I never even had full brakes applied so the hit was completely uncalled for. Good thing I had enough grip to recover from it.
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Chuyler, i was wondering what happened to me in the kink in the first lap? next time i know i was stuck there watching everybody pass by!
 
RotaryFreak
Agression is good, but it needs proper timing.
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Absolutely. Cool calculated drivers like Nic make their way to the front one car at a time. Practice trailing drivers into corners as close as possible without making contact. If you get good at it, you'll be in the right position to pounce on any mistake they make. Otherwise, just use the draft to get yourself into passing position...but use the draft to attempt a pass on a turn where you simply cannot stick it without causing unnecessary contact.


WiiFreak has spoken. The combo for next week will be...

Car: Nissan Silvia K's DIA Selection (S13) '90 (premium)
Track: Suzuka Circuit
 
I knew he'd picked that car. I said it last night after the Canadians left :D I wish he'd pick a car he hasnt already tuned for 450PP. Oh well.

I really like the reverse grid, but I noticed people leaving and coming back to move to the front.
I managed top 5 every race and after the first race was often coming from 10-12th to get there.

I wish I would have made the first deciding race. I was feeling really good last night. For the first time, I went with power over weight and it made all the difference with the automatic tranny for corner exit speed where I'm usually lacking. After half the room left...we went into shuffle and I dominated. MaxPrez, Twich, Cujo, Jimmy, cheese, myself and a couple others ran till nearly 2:30 CST.

Figured out the differences in shuffle ratio.
The higher the shuffle ration, the more the top drivers from the previous race are handicapped for winning/placing. At one point I won 3 straight races and the line-up for Chamonix was. Evo IX, 3000GT, 3000GT, 3000GT, GTO SR and Storia 4wd. Guess what I had?? ( I still took 2nd cause I didnt have to break in the Diahatsu :D)

PS: I love that once again my name is not mentioned in the he said she said comments. I may not win, but I will apologize immediately for anything I cause and wait for the person. (Diabolic pats his back)
 
Yes Diabolic, great racing last night. Wish I could stick around longer.

I noticed the people coming and going as well. I certainly hope it wasn't to start at the front every race. I know some were experimenting with aero which you cannot add and remove from the lobby.

I found it fun winning a race, then getting relegated to the back. I worked my way up to mid pack on the next race, and then I worked through the remainder of the pack on the race after that. I'm upset I didn't do well at cape ring though. I made too many mistakes and had to pass the same cars more than once. There are some tricky turns and the first few do not play out well with aggressive drivers because the fastest line takes you from side to side and if anyone challenges your line you end up in the grass. I wish the draft were completely disabled for the first 30 seconds of a race.
 
In every race I passed at least 3 people on the openig lap because of multiple car accidents. I tend to run the first lap of every race as if damage is permanent. Especially with a full room once you are more than a few seconds behind, its impossible to move up the field quick enough. Nic on Cape proved that. Cheese and I were so far ahead that race and only in the last 2 laps did Nic get clear and begin making a charge. Another lap or 2 and we'd been battling it out. :scared:
 
diabolicwyvern
I knew he'd picked that car. I said it last night after the Canadians left :D I wish he'd pick a car he hasnt already tuned for 450PP. Oh well.
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Well I was thinking of picking the Autozam or Cappuccino because they are never used in our races even though they can reach 450pp. However I settled on the Silvia because I felt that after two weeks with 4WD cars most people would enjoy a simple, nimble FR car. In future weeks though I wouldn't mind if we ran the Autozam or Cappuccino as they are both great little cars :)
 
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