450pp Street Car Tuners Club -- Nightly 9:45-12:00 EDT

[polizei]

Automotive rumors suggested that Nissan will be reviving the Silvia nameplate. To prove it, some prototypes were seen testing in the ring, clad in the last gen camo, trying to beat the GTR lap record.

hahaha how close did you get?

 

[RotaryFreak]

hahaha how close did you get?

it depends how many times i went into the sand trap....

probably 1'40secs past the 7min mark is the best i can muster.... 2012 GTR record is 7'22secs.

 

[chuyler1]

Speaking of fast times... can you break 7:00 on sport hard tires? I came close in the Zonda...but I effed up the last turn. This is one of the few times I used TCS and watching the video you can see why. It was breaking loose the tires in 4th gear!

 

[RockinVs]

That's me!

I love my outfit.

 

[Adirtytoilet]

Nice pictures from last night! Might be on tonight. This cars oversteer will be welcomed compared to the mustangs understeer.

 

[fatrab]

Crap, just booted up the PS3 and System Update required.

 

[Bones Brigade]

I couldn't drive tonight. I set decent laps in practice but couldn't keep the same pace in the race. Demo derby at Top Gear TT was fun, though.

 

[chuyler1]

I think I've figured out the issue with AOK. I'm uploading videos now. Basically he was one of the only drivers to install a wing last night and I've seen him with a wing on other cars in the past. That gives him faster corner speeds and virtually no passing power at 450pp. As a result, it is impossible for him to make the typical draft pass. Instead he has to divebomb everyone to gain position. From his seat, everyone is going slow in the turns...but I can assure you that I am at the limit of sport soft tire grip on almost every turn and just about all the other top drivers are as well. We just don't have wings installed because we want to be able to pass other drivers via drafting. Add to that AOK's desire to pounce on even the slightest mistake from another driver and it is a recipe for disaster.

Booch, I've got the video of Grand Valley as well. It was lag on your part as Nic mentioned. However prior to that, AOK was pretty aggressive so I can see why you thought it was more of the same.

Videos uploading now and I will post more when they are done.

 

[chuyler1]

View from AOK at Suzuka. I recorded a full lap to show that I went wide previously on the turn before but more importantly, AOK simply didn't have the speed to overtake at any point on the track except for the esses.

The second time through the esses, he taps me lightly before the turn in question which forces me to slow a bit giving him a little bit of an edge, but I was still on the driving line and planning on taking the next apex correctly (since I screwed i up on the previous lap). He came inside and had maybe a 1/4 car length on me. When I turned in for the apex he hit me. That's justifiable...I could have recovered from the initial hit. It is the full throttle response by him and subsequent two hits after that which sent my car flying off the track. If you make contact like that it is clear that your pass attempt has failed and continuing to push and open up a hole for your car is not acceptable racing in this room.



From my bumper cam angle (how I race) you can see I'm lined up for a perfect apex (unlike the previous lap where I went wide). AOK claimed I was "out of shape" and he acted on it. 75% of his car was still in my rearview when I began to ease in for the apex. I don't think he had sufficient overlap to claim the inside, and even if he did, after making contact he should have backed off instead of hitting me again.



Now for Grand Valley,

0:00 AOK is right on the bumper of Booch entering turn 1. Contact is inevitable in this situation because you simply don't know when the other driver is going to brake. After that there is more tussling likely due to the fact Booch had to slow down just to regain control. In short, if you don't have a nose ahead by the rumble strip on the right side, you should back off and trail the driver through the turn and hope they run wide.

0:28 Nic obviously make sufficient overlap before the hairpin. Once you see the nose of another car ahead of you in a turn...you have to give up outside track rights. You cannot track-out and leave no space for the other driver. Nic gets squeezed out of his rightful line.

1:30 Booch goes from the inside to the outside of the track. This is clearly some sort of lag.



All in all, I think it comes down to the fact that AOK tunes his car for cornering speed while everyone else sacrifices a little corner speed for straight line passing power. AOK becomes easy to pass on the straight but overly aggressive in the turns. The only way his tune is successful is if he pulls away through a technical section enough to prevent anyone from getting close to him before the next technical section. Otherwise he'll constantly be held up in the turns and passed on the straights.

 

[chuyler1]

And for reference, compare my driving line to this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCKBveLTedM

I miss the apex on the 2nd part of turn 1 but other than that I was pretty much following the correct line through the esses.

 

[grenadeshark]

0:28 Nic obviously make sufficient overlap before the hairpin. Once you see the nose of another car ahead of you in a turn...you have to give up outside track rights. You cannot track-out and leave no space for the other driver. Nic gets squeezed out of his rightful line.

Nic made sufficient overlap to pass on the outside, not the inside. There is no room on that turn to make a pass on the outside. I disagree with your conclusion as Aok had every right on the hairpin to push out.

That was an overzealous passing attempt and since Nic didn't take the inside line, he had no where to go. He should have braked early and tried to out accelerate him.

 

[chuyler1]

Nic made sufficient overlap to pass on the outside, not the inside. There is no room on that turn to make a pass on the outside. I disagree with your conclusion as Aok had every right on the hairpin to push out.

That was an overzealous passing attempt and since Nic didn't take the inside line, he had no where to go. He should have braked early and tried to out accelerate him.

Yeah it's overzealous, but AOK chose to be deep inside on the turn. He was already setting himself up for a very slow line which is why Nic was able to come alongside him. If I were in AOK's shoes, I would have given Nic exactly 1 car width on the outside of the track to avoid contact, that's all. It's not the worst that I've seen...its just another example of pushing someone out when you know they are next to you. After the hairpin, the following Left, there is no way Nic could have stuck a tighter line...but again I would have given him space to try.

But anyway, I was merely commenting on what I saw. I don't see it as a huge violation. No one gained or lost position from it. I was really posting the video to show Booch that the punt was due to lag.

 

[RotaryFreak]

i had a disastrous night last night, mistakes after mistakes cause me the races mostly missing braking points.
Actually the car felt good compare to nurburgring the other night. I added a wing as what zmiked suggested as well as try out tune from fatrab, both made the car quite stable in turns and surprisingly better cornering speeds. But bcoz of the update i didnt have the time to fine tune it. i was gaining speed in turns but in straights i was slow as turtle.

 

[grenadeshark]

Yeah it's overzealous, but AOK chose to be deep inside on the turn. He was already setting himself up for a very slow line which is why Nic was able to come alongside him. If I were in AOK's shoes, I would have given Nic exactly 1 car width on the outside of the track to avoid contact, that's all. It's not the worst that I've seen...its just another example of pushing someone out when you know they are next to you. After the hairpin, the following Left, there is no way Nic could have stuck a tighter line...but again I would have given him space to try.

But anyway, I was merely commenting on what I saw. I don't see it as a huge violation. No one gained or lost position from it. I was really posting the video to show Booch that the punt was due to lag.

I agree. I would have left room as well. But, I was saying it wasn't a flagrant foul or anything.

 

[chuyler1]

i was gaining speed in turns but in straights i was slow as turtle.

Yup, that's what the wing does (as i mentioned above). I learn to drive without it so I can pass on the straights.

The basics of my tune...

ECU, Intake Manifold, Exhaust Manifold, Racing Exhaust
Tranny, clutch, flywheel, drive shaft
Ride Height: -5/-5
Spring rates: increased front by .4, increased rear by .6
Rollbars: Increased rear by 1
Camber: 1.0/1.0
Toe: 0/0.10
LSD: Stock
Ballast: 65kg at the rear (increased a little as engine broke in)
Power reduction: none

Overall, it felt a little understeery under trail braking. It wasn't until grand valley that I increased the spring rates and that seemed to help. I had too much body roll and the outside front was overheating. After that was resolved, the car was pretty quick an easy to drive.

 

[RotaryFreak]

That's me!

I love my outfit.

thats me in the background in black Alfa, in shocked and awed of what your wearing!

 

[grenadeshark]

I went ahead and analyzed the videos. I can post them if you want, but they are poor quality.

I could never find more then a .05 difference between your turns 1 and 2 by the end of the straight going into the tunnel and mine chuyler.

I watched your best lap versus mine and I was faster through there. But on our average laps, we were virtually identical as far as how long it took us to get to "x" point on the track after turn 1 and 2.

 

[chuyler1]

So on average, if we were identical getting to "X" wouldn't that mean my line wins because I was gaining significant track position on the entrance to turn 1 which I wasn't really losing exiting turn 2.

I'm going to post some ghosts for garris in his Talon if I have time to put some laps in during my lunch break.

Want me to make a ghost in a FR car that we can both run? Maybe just a stock Silvia straight from the new car dealer with no mods, everything stock including tires.

 

[Bones Brigade]

Yup, that's what the wing does (as i mentioned above). I learn to drive without it so I can pass on the straights.

The basics of my tune...

ECU, Intake Manifold, Exhaust Manifold, Racing Exhaust
Tranny, clutch, flywheel, drive shaft
Ride Height: -5/-5
Spring rates: increased front by .4, increased rear by .6
Rollbars: Increased rear by 1
Camber: 1.0/1.0
Toe: 0/0.10
LSD: Stock
Ballast: 65kg at the rear (increased a little as engine broke in)
Power reduction: none

Overall, it felt a little understeery under trail braking. It wasn't until grand valley that I increased the spring rates and that seemed to help. I had too much body roll and the outside front was overheating. After that was resolved, the car was pretty quick an easy to drive.

I may try this. I was fine in the turns, and any difference could be attributed to my abilities vs the other guys, not that my tune was any worse. But I was getting dusted on the straights. Especially Tokyo.

 

[frankygt-r]

i was insulted by booch (**** you dirty driver) simply becouse i was behind him when he lagged. that s not cool, even nik said to him that it was lag but still he preferred to insult aok. maybe i should tune my cars to draft like everyone else does, i am always on pole position but in the race everyone pass me on straight. i always believed that the unrealistic exagerate slipstream is the biggest issue in this game.

 

[RotaryFreak]

Chuyler, i think my gearing was way off too, i did ditch the LSD in Suzuka and it made a big difference but when i tried putting it back in Tokyo, i had the same twitchy feeling i felt whe i tested it out in the Ring. My tires were unpredictably cooking in turns.

im gonna try your settings later and see what happens. LSD is a no-no from what I've learned. Mine felt at home in GVE still with no LSD.

 

[chuyler1]

i always believed that the unrealistic exagerate slipstream is the biggest issue in this game.

It's not just the slipstream...in a side by side drag, most of the cars on the track are quicker than your tunes. If you watch that first video I posted of Suzuka, on the first lap I went wide and you came along side. However by the time we reached the next turn I had made back the time I lost. Had you successfully pulled off the pass on the second lap without hitting me the same would have happened. Your car simply has no passing power except to do so dirty by cutting inside on turns. No one else attempts those types of passes that I am aware of...and if they do it by accident they usually back off once initial contact occurs.

 

[esoxhntr]

im gonna try your settings later and see what happens. LSD is a no-no from what I've learned. Mine felt at home in GVE still with no LSD.

i don't leave the garage without an lsd. mayhaps the settings i use are lower than most. at this pp, try an initial in the 7-10 range, accel in the 15-20 range and decel i typically leave at 5.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Since I cannot find it anywhere...who won and anyone know the poll time for Suzuka?
I was going to enter, but after seeing the car/track combo, thought better of it. Too much potential for strenuous driving. I'm surprised there's only 1 page of remarks so far

 

[frankygt-r]

yes but if you choose to have an heavy unstable car its becouse you know that its more important to have the possibility to draft. in real life, on suzuka, if you lost 1.5 seconds in the esses you are in trouble. no one would choose 10hp and not downforce

 

[grenadeshark]

So on average, if we were identical getting to "X" wouldn't that mean my line wins because I was gaining significant track position on the entrance to turn 1 which I wasn't really losing exiting turn 2.

I'm going to post some ghosts for garris in his Talon if I have time to put some laps in during my lunch break.

Want me to make a ghost in a FR car that we can both run? Maybe just a stock Silvia straight from the new car dealer with no mods, everything stock including tires.

You weren't gaining position. You were temporarily gaining ground only to lose it very quickly afterward.

I could use the same logic to say dive bombing into a turn is a great strategy because I gain track position.

My speed is almost always higher going into the braking point into the tunnel. The example video. I am doing 91 at the same point of the track you are doing 89**. I can post the videos if you want.

 

[esh]

Since I cannot find it anywhere...who won and anyone know the poll time for Suzuka?
I was going to enter, but after seeing the car/track combo, thought better of it. Too much potential for strenuous driving. I'm surprised there's only 1 page of remarks so far

Nic won and I think he was @ 2'22.2xx or high 2'21's. Grenade picked the '91 NSX for next week.

The car handled like **** for me as I chose keeping the weight and hp without extra downforce. Really loose in the back, understeer galore on throttle, etc. I was fast on straights, slow in corners and then really, REALLY slow in the dirt. I have a specific way I drive Suzuka and I just couldn't find the balance I needed to drive efficiently there

GVE-R was a better experience, mostly because we've been running it frequently and I enjoy driving it. Lots of drama and broken hearts that race blah blah blah...

Next was Tokyo...was pretty competitive until I looked at the map when I should have been breaking and down-shifting and slammed into the 1st corner barrier at ~ 100mph. It was fairly late so I called it a night....for about 30 mins and then came back for some dirty shuffle w/Twichie and a couple others. Fun was had by all....

 

[grenadeshark]

Nic won and I think he was @ 2'22.2xx or high 2'21's. Grenade picked the '91 NSX for next week.

The car handled like **** for me as I chose keeping the weight and hp without extra downforce. Really loose in the back, understeer galore on throttle, etc. I was fast on straights, slow in corners and then really, REALLY slow in the dirt. I have a specific way I drive Suzuka and I just couldn't find the balance I needed to drive efficiently there

GVE-R was a better experience, mostly because we've been running it frequently and I enjoy driving it. Lots of drama and broken hearts that race blah blah blah...

Next was Tokyo...was pretty competitive until I looked at the map when I should have been breaking and down-shifting and slammed into the 1st corner barrier at ~ 100mph. It was fairly late so I called it a night....for about 30 mins and then came back for some dirty shuffle w/Twichie and a couple others. Fun was had by all....

I was talking and ran off the track while following nic. He then waited up for me and we started racing again. I passed him on the last S turn as he under braked. But, I went ahead and let him win as they only reason I was there was because he waited up for me.

 

[RotaryFreak]

i don't leave the garage without an lsd. mayhaps the settings i use are lower than most. at this pp, try an initial in the 7-10 range, accel in the 15-20 range and decel i typically leave at 5.

this is the first time i tried not using LSD but only on this car and only on the first 2 races SUZUKA and GVE, like you 100% of my cars are equip with one. The difference was night and day. The car felt more controllable. Probably its a Sylvia thing.

Thanks for all the input guys, I learned a lot from all this discussion.

 

[polizei]

i was insulted by booch.

Good, that was the point. I don't like the way you race and while there was some kind of lag glitch at the point i went off track, you were driving dirty for laps before and after that. I'm just ignoring you from now on.

I think i possibly had the fastest car last night but rarely had the consistency for it to pay off. I ran a 1:23.x in qualifying with a bunch of errors and my last lap i was .4 up on wii or AOK, whoever had the pole, but everyone was ready to race so i quit to the pits. My tune:


weight reduction 3
chassis reinforcement
ballast 160kg at +50

Engine tuning
Engine stage 3
power limit 99.9%

Sport manifold
Sport cat
Ti race exhaust

custom trans 199mph top speed
twin clutch
semi-racing fw
diff stock settings
carbon drive shaft

Suspension
-4/-4
7.5/7.4
4/4
4/4
4/5
camber 1.0/1.0
toe 0.00/0.20
brakes 5/3

It was stable and fast. Nic was battling with me in the first few laps, it was a quick car.