4WD Drift Cars

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tjmaserati
Hello guys I've been drifting a black and green Subaru online lately and people don't like 4WD drift cars somehow they find this "cheap" or "cheating" will someone please inform me on why 4WD cars are frowned upon in the drift community?
 
Some don't really seek it as drifting, more like gymkhana sort of style. I think the hating of 4WD and FF drifting is a lot less than it was before but hey ho. I don't find it cheap or cheating more like annoying if your drifting and someone in a evo rams you off track. As long as they keep themselves to themselves and not mucking up my fun as such then i'm fine with them. Not saying that they don't or do, cause i know some do drift with 4wd and rwd fine but the hate is more aimed at online lobbies.
 
Its the lines that awd cars make and the speed at which they take them. To tune an awd drive car to handle like an fr is going to result in higher entry and exit speed on an fr drift line; to maintain the awd tune means an altered drift line that will intercept other fr vehicles...is it impossible? No, but it takes driving skill and tuning prowess, that frankly many that insist on using awd to drift socially don't possess.. I do it from time to time, usually with any manner of imprezas or evos, but it's a crutch; it doesn't encourage the development of good drift skills.
 
I don't really mind people drifting 4WD but I do mind when people who are driving 4WD trying to tandem with me and they usually hit me because 4WD are way faster than FR and 4WD drivers they usually like to go wide (understeer) but drivers who really drive 4WD really good and able to tandem with FR that is what I like.
 
I've had 4WD drifters tandem with me before, they're normally not bad honestly.

I would say that to be safe you'd want to be on the inside of the corner because of their tendency to understeer, so maybe let them lead 👍

The reason "4WD is frowned upon" for the most part is just the vast majority of people who simply can't do it.
As for it being "unconventional", drifting is already unconventional so what does it matter really. If you don't want to tandem with 4WD drifters don't. If they continue to try, politely ask them not to 👍

If the groups you're drifting with don't like you being in a 4WD, jump into a RWD car or find another group who's less adverse to it :)

I will say however that you should give some thought to moving into RWD, I personally find it far more rewarding than 4WD 👍
 
What no-ones pointed out yet is 4WD is so damn easy, it's seen as 'nooby', and nobody likes a noob.

The front wheels are always there to pull you back round, so you just have to launch it sideways into any corner then plant the throttle.
 
Watch out! Here comes the drifting elitists that think they know everything about sliding cars around in video games! I'm not even pretending to be scared!
 
The reason "4WD is frowned upon" for the most part is just the vast majority of people who simply can't do it.
As for it being "unconventional", drifting is already unconventional so what does it matter really. If you don't want to tandem with 4WD drifters don't. If they continue to try, politely ask them not to 👍

If the groups you're drifting with don't like you being in a 4WD, jump into a RWD car or find another group who's less adverse to it :)

+1 100% agreeing with this.

To OP: I think the Evo 8 is an okay car at going sideways.
 
I've had 4WD drifters tandem with me before, they're normally not bad honestly.

I would say that to be safe you'd want to be on the inside of the corner because of their tendency to understeer, so maybe let them lead 👍

The reason "4WD is frowned upon" for the most part is just the vast majority of people who simply can't do it.
As for it being "unconventional", drifting is already unconventional so what does it matter really. If you don't want to tandem with 4WD drifters don't. If they continue to try, politely ask them not to 👍

If the groups you're drifting with don't like you being in a 4WD, jump into a RWD car or find another group who's less adverse to it :)

I will say however that you should give some thought to moving into RWD, I personally find it far more rewarding than 4WD 👍

Yes I enjoy drifting both RWD and 4WD
 
as long it's gymkhana,then idm using a 4WD like a subaru wrx, but for drifting? na'ah never. Thats why i prefer RWD cars for drifting :)
 
tjmaserati
Hello guys I've been drifting a black and green Subaru online lately and people don't like 4WD drift cars somehow they find this "cheap" or "cheating" will someone please inform me on why 4WD cars are frowned upon in the drift community?

Well a lot of people in the drifting community go by the real life competitions tournaments such as the D1GP or FD (Formula Drift) rules and regulations.

Which in the D1GP rules and regulations handbook says "the only drive methods that are allowed shall be FR, MR, RR, and FF". So with most of the community going by that. That is your reason mainly
 
Which is totally why RWD cars have been rallying before.

I could also say that RWD cars are for racing, not drifting.
There are rwd Rally cars but they are not competitve verseus AWD Rally cars because they are faster and have more grip , same with drifting same proplem there.
 
as long it's gymkhana,then idm using a 4WD like a subaru wrx, but for drifting? na'ah never. Thats why i prefer RWD cars for drifting :)

I never understood how gymkhana is a completely different thing then drifting.

There are rwd Rally cars but they are not competitve verseus AWD Rally cars because they are faster and have more grip , same with drifting same proplem there.

Sure, I'll give you that, but at least they weren't ridiculed and seen as amateur. (As in AWD) 👎
 
Its the lines that awd cars make and the speed at which they take them. To tune an awd drive car to handle like an fr is going to result in higher entry and exit speed on an fr drift line; to maintain the awd tune means an altered drift line that will intercept other fr vehicles...is it impossible? No, but it takes driving skill and tuning prowess, that frankly many that insist on using awd to drift socially don't possess.. I do it from time to time, usually with any manner of imprezas or evos, but it's a crutch; it doesn't encourage the development of good drift skills.

This is the best answer so far.

The "crutch" effect of a fast 4WD car means the drivers do not have to improve to keep up. The same can be said of drifters who use any significantly faster drift car against lower-speed but higher skilled drivers. It is just more common with 4WD drifters for these reasons. Gymkhana, rally, what the car is "built for" or whatever doesn't mean **** to me but the only real difference between 4WD and FR cars is what happens when you apply throttle. And somewhere in that throttle application are reasons why the drifters tend to be bad. I'll give a quick explanation here on my theory on it, for those that care: (for those that don't, just skip to the end)


==================

There are generally two types of 4WD drifters, (or drifters in general) the ones who enter a corner gently and naturally start drifting without throttle, like any RWD car, displaying balance and optimizing their angle and speed, and then maintain with throttle with barely any counter-steer and exit with throttle with high traction. These have general similar lines to RWD cars, except for the higher entry and exit speed. This style is fine and easy to adapt to in tandems.

However, the other 4WD drifters (and many RWD drifters) just use throttle on entry, mid corner, and exit with little or no careful line selection, or, throw their car in with the E-brake and then slam the gas to straighten it out. These are both easy to do because in a 4WD car accelleration on the front wheels introduces understeer that pulls the car out of the corner without the need to countersteer further as throttle is increased, unlike a RWD car which will lose spin and spin out, hamfisted gas-slamming actually speeds a 4WD car up coming out of a slide. That, and enhanced forward moving traction on low grip tires, means that they get lots of additional speed in the exits and straights, and can regain traction from silly entry speeds easier than a RWD car can.

What's important is that in RWD drifting, is that those same techniques result in significantly less speed and control through the corner. Slower cornering and more wrecks causes a drifter to significantly fall behind other drifters and not be able to tandem. It is a sign that the driver needs to improve their control. But in 4WD cars the benefit of higher entry, exits, and straight line speed more than outweighs this. This means that a poor 4WD drifter can "keep up" with a good RWD drifter. It is very much a "crutch" as it doesn't indicate that a drifter needs to improve their skill to maintain enough closeness to "tandem", despite the sloppy driving and poor overall control.

In other words, the problem with 4WD drifting is that 4WD drifters are disproportionally unskilled compared to RWD drifters, because they are, when drifting with RWD drifters, never really required to improve to keep up. Since 4WD drifting doesn't have a very strong competitive group or following on GT5, the amount of poor 4WD drifters who use the added speed as, as you say, a crutch. Result: More unskilled 4WD drifters, making 4WD drifters overall less pleasant.

==================

On the subject of cars I drift, In the past, the best 4WD drift cars I have used are, in descending order of ability:

Best:
22B Impreza (never the four door imprezas! Only the 22B!)
Evo VI T.M.
Evo II
Mine's BNR34 N1 (S or P)
Nissan R32 Skyline
Toyota Celica GT-Four (The '98 Model)
Mine's Evo VI
Ford RS200 '84
Peugot 205 Turbo 16
Every other Group B Car
Every WRC Car
Golf R32/Audi A3/Audi TT/Any other Haldex FF to 4WD car
Every car not yet mentioned.

The Audi R8 gets honorable mention as just a very, very good car overall.

I don't drift 4WD anymore, but I might break out the 22B some day again... it's uncompromisingly savage, but not near as fun as the 240Z.
 
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Hello guys I've been drifting a black and green Subaru online lately and people don't like 4WD drift cars somehow they find this "cheap" or "cheating" will someone please inform me on why 4WD cars are frowned upon in the drift community?

It's because 4WD cars according to most of the drifting community take less skill to drift, and plus any RWD car for drifting is mainstream. I don't have any problem if you drift 4WD cars in my lobbies, but 4WD drifters are often stereotyped as rammers so that is also another reason why you might get frowned upon.
 
I never understood how gymkhana is a completely different thing then drifting.

In what facet of competition are the two similar? Gymkhana courses are typically very tightly laid out, and very technical. Closest comparison to Gymkhana is Auto-X, and those speeds are quite a bit higher, and course layout typically much less technical.

Drift: Judged, Not Timed, RWD Layouts
Gymkhana: Timed, Classes determined by Draintrain layout & modifications.



Plus there's this sticky:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=175512

Basically WGAF anymore. Let people do what they want, if you don't like it, restrict your lobby...
 
I'm just saying how it seems to really be about the style factor in both forms.

Gymkhana is much more empirical. In it you do something stylistically impressive to achieve a timed goal with very clear measurements.

Drift (D1GP) is more subjective. In it you do something stylistically impressive, and try to best achieve a vague goal with less clear measurements.

There is style, but why the style exists is the difference. It really has nothing to do with the type of car you drive, though. Regulations and utility are the only reason why 4WD cars are not used in drift and FR cars are not used in Rally. Gymkhana features both FR and 4WD car classes.

Gymkhana is very different from drifting, but its also incredibly stupid to say that 4WD cars are only "for" Gymkhana and rally, or that FR cars are not "for" Gymkhana. So I agree with you on that, EliteDreamer, but for different reasons.
 
Well yes, rather then the deep meaning I went for the simplistic ideas that make them rather the same.

There's no deep meaning. All I did was explain what the two motorsports are.


I would say that calling drifting and Gymkhana "about the style factor in both forms" is probably a lot more vague and deep than anything I said. =)
 
GhostZ
Gymkhana is much more empirical. In it you do something stylistically impressive to achieve a timed goal with very clear measurements.

Drift (D1GP) is more subjective. In it you do something stylistically impressive, and try to best achieve a vague goal with less clear measurements.

There is style, but why the style exists is the difference. It really has nothing to do with the type of car you drive, though. Regulations and utility are the only reason why 4WD cars are not used in drift and FR cars are not used in Rally. Gymkhana features both FR and 4WD car classes.

Gymkhana is very different from drifting, but its also incredibly stupid to say that 4WD cars are only "for" Gymkhana and rally, or that FR cars are not "for" Gymkhana. So I agree with you on that, EliteDreamer, but for different reasons.

Explained perfectly.

I so want to gymkhana in GT5 but it's near impossible.
 
GhostZ
On the subject of cars I drift, In the past, the best 4WD drift cars I have used are, in descending order of ability:

Best:
22B Impreza (never the four door imprezas! Only the 22B!)
Evo VI T.M.
Evo II
Mine's BNR34 N1 (S or P)
Nissan R32 Skyline
Toyota Celica GT-Four (The '98 Model)
Mine's Evo VI
Ford RS200 '84
Peugot 205 Turbo 16
Every other Group B Car
Every WRC Car
Golf R32/Audi A3/Audi TT/Any other Haldex FF to 4WD car
Every car not yet mentioned.

The Audi R8 gets honorable mention as just a very, very good car overall.
I agree with most of the cars on this list (except for the VAG products, Haldex awd sucks, quattro all day) and have found a trend; with the exception of the celica and evos it seems the best awd drifting cars have engines mounted longitudinally.
 
I agree with most of the cars on this list (except for the VAG products, Haldex awd sucks, quattro all day) and have found a trend; with the exception of the celica and evos it seems the best awd drifting cars have engines mounted longitudinally.

The same can be said of regular drift cars. This is both because it is difficult to produce much power from transverse engines, and it is difficult to package a transmission robust enough. The main advantages, a tighter packaging and lower weight, are not necessarily useful for drifting, although they improve overall performance.

Notice that the Haldex cars are the lowest on the list that still work, and I will use (I'm sure there are more cars I haven't even tried yet, but not many...) The main advantage for them is the centralized weight distribution (quick rotation) and narrow wheelbase relative to the size of tires, something you should definitely take into account when tuning to get a little more performance out of them than other 4WD cars. They rotate well and understeer easily out of a turn, but are by no means as sophisticated as the other cars on the list.

I forgot to mention the CTR2, slotting below the Mine's Evo, although the rear tread is a bit too wide for my taste and drifting style.
 
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