60/60/60 is fully locked, data logger evidence inside - also full LSD explanation.

Discussion in 'GT6 Drifting' started by FussyFez, Apr 15, 2014.

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  1. ITSHAM

    ITSHAM (Banned)

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    No worries, I just did a bit of research and learned a lot myself.
     
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  2. TH137Z

    TH137Z

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    In real life I think my ma61 supra is set up like this. Backing off the throttle will make it oversteer rather quickly yet it seems gradual during acceleration.

    On another note, I was starting to believe the 60/60/60 to be locked, as I have trouble with single peggers with my diff at 5/30/30. The the 30s seem to affect how far in or out of a corners apex I am. Also, the mercury cougar has a stock diff of 0/0/0 and it it almost impossible to get the 2nd wheel to spin.
     
  3. Gonales

    Gonales

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    Missing the apex has nothing to do with your diff. Letting go of the throttle shouldn't increase your drift angle, really.
     
  4. twitcher

    twitcher

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    Then how do you explain lift-off oversteer?

    The same physics principles which cause lift-off oversteer also apply mid-drift.
     
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  5. Gonales

    Gonales

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    Mate, lift off oversteer is when you're turning into the corner. The increased weight on the front wheels increase the grip, and reduce the grip in the rear, which makes the rear end step out.

    When drifting, and lifting off, your wheelspin reduces. The weight of the car, if it goes forward, goes to tires that are pointing in a countersteer. You will never gain angle from the weight.

    The ONLY reason your car actually would be able to increase angle is when your wheelspin is too much, and reducing throttle actually increases grip in the rear, instead of reducing it like you suggest.
     
  6. twitcher

    twitcher

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    And if you're drifting a long, sweeping, decreasing radius corner? One, where at the start, you are full on the throttle (so all the weight is at the back), until you reach the point where you need to begin slowing down to accommodate the decreasing radius of the corner. At this point, you lift off the throttle (for this technique, it usually works best to lift off abruptly, as opposed to smoothly) . Using the momentum of the rear of the car (the direction of the momentum being roughly perpendicular to the rear of the car), along with weight transfer to the front caused by lifting, you can get the rear of the car to step out more. If done correctly, you can get massive angle through the smaller radius portion of the corner without ever touching the foot brake or hand brake.

    Not a spectacular location for it, but an easy spot to demonstrate this is on SSR5, second dog-leg right after the hairpin. It's not a decreasing radius sweeper, but it's an easy spot to see the technique. In order to link the straight, you have to be somewhat shallow against the left wall. But as you approach the right hand corner, you need to scrub speed and increase angle so you clear the corner cleanly. Handbrake works, but is unclean IMO. Lifting off and left foot braking work about the same, and both look good to me.

    Try it sometime
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
  7. Gonales

    Gonales

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    Try it sometime? Really?

    Ofcourse I know how to use weight to change my angles. But frankly, In your case you need to be braking or something to increase angle that much. Thing is, Should be going for as much throttle as long as you can. (More smoke, more style etc).
     
  8. twitcher

    twitcher

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    Why are you confrontational just for the sake of it??? You're actually trying to nitpick at a line that I just described in words, that you've maybe seen me drift 2 or 3 times, and not for about a year. You have zero knowledge of how long I lift for, what angle I'm at, and how much smoke I'm making.

    You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

    Edit:

    If you know how to use weight to change your angle, you should know how to use it with lifting off to increase your angle.
     
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  9. TH137Z

    TH137Z

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    If you read my comment properly, I directed the comment at myself. I use the acceleration and braking to determine MY apexs on certain corners . So technically your reply is invalid?
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
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  10. Stavingo

    Stavingo

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    The tuning library or OP should add the LSD setups, as educational as it is reading this thread I don't wanna scroll halfway down the page to find a 1.5 way LSD setup for GT6 :lol:
     
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  11. twitcher

    twitcher

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    @FussyFez is gonna have a full time job updating OPs before long :lol: I agree though.

    And maybe we could get a mod to clean up some of the off topic-ness? Mine included :dunce:
     
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  12. Stavingo

    Stavingo

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    Anything to improve the Drifting Forum :tup: Gotta give props for that :)
     
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  13. FussyFez

    FussyFez

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    I've added the posts from @Ridox2JZGTE and @ITSHAM to the OP to make things easier.
     
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  14. TexRex

    TexRex Premium

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    Lift-off oversteer can manifest anywhere and at any time regardless of position in a corner, just so long as the vehicle's mass decelerates enough and suddenly enough that the back end unsettles and grip is reduced. Thanks @FussyFez for the data to backup the belief. I've always assumed 60/60/60 was fully locked based solely on the description given in-game but rarely ever limited myself strictly to such a setting, especially when making decisions based solely on in-game descriptions can limit [or even break] a tune. Oh and fantastic copy/paste of someone else's write-up @ITSHAM. :lol:
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
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  15. ITSHAM

    ITSHAM (Banned)

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    Cant take the credit, its of a website bud. Little research never hurt anyone.
     
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  16. Gonales

    Gonales

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    This is wrong. Seriously. Maybe in racing or normal driving, but not in drifting. :/
     
  17. twodogsgolden

    twodogsgolden

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    You're incorrect. As soon as you let off the gas grip will go to front tires increasing their grip. This sudden increase in grip will cause more oversteer.
     
  18. Gonales

    Gonales

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    In what direction are your wheels pointing when drifting? Yes, in countersteer. If they get more grip... What would the car do?

    The ONLY reason a car will oversteer more when you let off, is simple. You're at maximum lock, you reduce or totally let go of the throttle, and your rear tires will gain more grip (because of reduced wheelspin), and the back end will rotate past a recoverable angle.
     
  19. twodogsgolden

    twodogsgolden

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    See now we are in a tough situation. What you're stating depends on tune as well. I can increase the rear toe and get no lift off oversteer while having no toe I can let off the gas mid-drift and lose the car completely.

    Of course there are lots of other factors that play a role in this so we can bicker about this all day and it really comes down to the car and the tune.

    Lift off oversteer is probably best used to initiate the slide rather than to continue it.
     
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  20. TexRex

    TexRex Premium

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    It's true, letting off the gas while sideways will allow the rear tire to gain traction. But with low front spring rates, minimal front bar and aggressive rear toe-out (or even neutral toe as @twodogsgolden posed) not having the outside rear driving the nose of the car toward the inside edge should allow the car to rotate more because the tires still have less grip than if they were gripping the tarmac to begin with. All of this, of course, goes out the window when you introduce soft compounds that have exponentially greater lateral grip.
     
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  21. Gonales

    Gonales

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    I can definitely agree with this. ;)
     
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  22. MadFlavour

    MadFlavour (Banned)

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    Another thread, another opportunity for Dom to be Dom. :guilty:
     
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  23. TexRex

    TexRex Premium

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    True or not, it's probably better to leave well enough alone and not lose the spirit of the thread.
     
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  24. MadFlavour

    MadFlavour (Banned)

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    I just don't see how you can argue with facts
     
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  25. twodogsgolden

    twodogsgolden

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    This is true, it really does come down to tune and weight distribution. For instance lift off oversteer will be more pronounced drifting a BTR compared to a S13.
     
  26. TwinturboCH

    TwinturboCH

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    That depends entirely on your steering inputs. Lifting violently can indeed make your car go MORE sideways, simple weight transfer tells you that. I can initiate a drift at pretty much any speed, lift off the gas, and just use balanced steering to keep the car sideways until it comes to a complete stop :) But then like I said, it depends on your steering input at the moment you lift off. A good drifter can do pretty much anything with a car either on or off the gas.
     
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  27. Gonales

    Gonales

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    Yeah, I totally agree.
     
  28. FussyFez

    FussyFez

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    :lol:
     
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  29. Gonales

    Gonales

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    Should have linked the rest too. Solely letting go of the throttle doesn't increase an angle. Like TTCH said, your angle is based on a couple of factors, NOT just the throttle.
     
  30. twitcher

    twitcher

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    Almost exactly what I described, yet you told me I was doing it wrong and I needed to be on the throttle longer, making more smoke, yada yada yada.

    But now since TTCH says something which corresponds to what a bunch of us have been saying, you agree with it?? Gimme a break.

    And before you say "Well TTCH mentioned steering input as well." I'm not Bunta, I'm always making steering inputs. I sort of assumed everyone would realize that this discussion of throttle work also included the appropriate steering inputs....I'll be more clear next time.

    You're original statement was "lifting off the throttle shouldn't increase angle." That is really broad, and generic. Examples of lifting off the throttle to increase angle were given, but you shut them down. But now you've come full circle, and are agreeing with us. I'm not sure if there's a better example of Dom arguing for the sake of arguing :lol:


    I can only speak for myself personally Dom, but I think this is a great example of why you get into it with so many people around here. Generally, I actually agree with most of what you have to say. You know you're drifting, there's no denying it. It just bugs me when you make blanket statements along the lines of, "always do this, never do that".

    Sorry for putting you on blast, no hard feelings :cheers:
     
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