787b 800pp tune for Sardegna and Spa

[John Wedley]

Ok, first comment on your setup ( without having driven the car yet ) :
The advantage vs. @John Wedley regarding the PP calculation is that you're using the Manual Transmission, not the Racing Transmission which obviously "is worth" quite a couple of PP.
It's the first time I come across this and I'm curious ... 👍

Manual transmission is for stick shifter and racing transmission is for flappy paddles. Depends which you are using as to what you need for the car.

 

[Tommy_D]

Manual transmission is for stick shifter and racing transmission is for flappy paddles. Depends which you are using as to what you need for the car.

Huh??? I believe every wheel on the market comes with flappy paddles. Manual shifters are just add-ons. You should be able to use either transmission with any wheel setup or if you are on a controller.

As for what advantage a racing transmission has over a fully manual transmission.... the jury is still out in my book. A part of me thinks the racing transmission may have ever so slightly faster shifts than the full manual, but I dont have any real evidence to prove it. The only car I have noticed any potential driving dynamic change with the racing over the manual transmission is the Porsche 962C. I started off with the racing transmission and ran a bunch of laps, then tried the manual to see if I could add more power with the pp savings and the car sucked. For some reason the shifts became super slow and the car suffered for it. But the 787B seems to shift just fine with the manual. Same with the Nissan R92CP. So if I can save some pp by using a "lesser" transmission and add back some power or front end downforce, I will.

It's like choosing racing brakes vs carbon ceramic brakes. If there is no real change in the braking dynamics it's not worth the pp or the credits to install them.

 

[John Wedley]

Huh??? I believe every wheel on the market comes with flappy paddles. Manual shifters are just add-ons. You should be able to use either transmission with any wheel setup or if you are on a controller.

As for what advantage a racing transmission has over a fully manual transmission.... the jury is still out in my book. A part of me thinks the racing transmission may have ever so slightly faster shifts than the full manual, but I dont have any real evidence to prove it. The only car I have noticed any potential driving dynamic change with the racing over the manual transmission is the Porsche 962C. I started off with the racing transmission and ran a bunch of laps, then tried the manual to see if I could add more power with the pp savings and the car sucked. For some reason the shifts became super slow and the car suffered for it. But the 787B seems to shift just fine with the manual. Same with the Nissan R92CP. So if I can save some pp by using a "lesser" transmission and add back some power or front end downforce, I will.

It's like choosing racing brakes vs carbon ceramic brakes. If there is no real change in the braking dynamics it's not worth the pp or the credits to install them.

Different applications of the clutch between manual and racing transmission.

Also the brakes will have a difference. Carbons take slightly longer to warm up but last longer without getting brake fade like the others will. You'll notice carbons give more consistent braking for longer, especially on longer races

 

[Tommy_D]

Different applications of the clutch between manual and racing transmission.

Also the brakes will have a difference. Carbons take slightly longer to warm up but last longer without getting brake fade like the others will. You'll notice carbons give more consistent braking for longer, especially on longer races

So, the carbon ceramic brakes are more for endurance races than anything. For a grinding car, it would make more sense to stick with the racing brakes but for endurance races, like the Human Comedy Missions, it may make sense to go with carbons. Gotcha.

For the transmission, though, I don't think I'm following you. How does the application of the clutch effect the transmission? 1) I don't use the clutch pedal on my pedal setup and, 2) I never upgrade the clutch on my cars as I haven't found any need to do this.

 

[John Wedley]

So, the carbon ceramic brakes are more for endurance races than anything. For a grinding car, it would make more sense to stick with the racing brakes but for endurance races, like the Human Comedy Missions, it may make sense to go with carbons. Gotcha.

For the transmission, though, I don't think I'm following you. How does the application of the clutch effect the transmission? 1) I don't use the clutch pedal on my pedal setup and, 2) I never upgrade the clutch on my cars as I haven't found any need to do this.

The gearboxes are literally designed for the different ways to change gear. Manual gearbox is for use with a clutch pedal and racing gearbox is for the automatic clutch on flappy paddles.

I don't think you can use a shifter with a racing transmission at all even if you can use them the other way round.

I only use flappy paddle so I only use racing transmission as that is designed to work best with flappy paddle

 

[Tommy_D]

The gearboxes are literally designed for the different ways to change gear. Manual gearbox is for use with a clutch pedal and racing gearbox is for the automatic clutch on flappy paddles.

I don't think you can use a shifter with a racing transmission at all even if you can use them the other way round.

I only use flappy paddle so I only use racing transmission as that is designed to work best with flappy paddle

Oh, okay, I think I understand what you are saying. If I were a purist and wanted to use a manual shifter for the majority of the cars in the game (like they would have in real life), I would only be able to upgrade to the Fully Manual Transmission for those cars. But if also wanted to be a purist and use the flappy paddles for the F1 cars and the modern sports cars (probably most Gr.1 and likely some Gr.2 and Gr.3 cars as well), I would upgrade to the racing transmission and use the flappy paddles on the wheel.

However, I'm not a purist... I'm someone who wants to use the best tool for the job and because this is a video game I'm going to work within the confines of what I'm allowed to use in the video game. That said, I haven't noticed much of any difference between the Fully Manual transmission and the Racing transmission while being exclusively on a flappy paddle wheel setup. Both work about equally in my book. Like I said, I have only noticed 1 car to have a noticeable change between the Manual and racing transmissions. I have A/B tested the 2 transmissions with a number of cars and they feel and react basically the same. If I notice one feels better than the other, I generally go with the better one for the job but it's still a toss-up on what other things can benefit from the extra pp you gain from using the manual transmission. I'm pretty sure I use the manual transmission with the 787B because I could add more front-end downforce and decrease the ballast giving the car better overall handling characteristics (for my driving style), better acceleration and better braking performance. These 3 things far outweigh any benefits the racing transmission gave over the manual transmission.

I suppose the purist would also believe that the 787B never came with a flappy paddle shifter and therefore should only get the manual transmission put in it instead of a racing transmission even if I don't have a manual shifter setup as part of my sim rig.

 

[John Wedley]

Oh, okay, I think I understand what you are saying. If I were a purist and wanted to use a manual shifter for the majority of the cars in the game (like they would have in real life), I would only be able to upgrade to the Fully Manual Transmission for those cars. But if also wanted to be a purist and use the flappy paddles for the F1 cars and the modern sports cars (probably most Gr.1 and likely some Gr.2 and Gr.3 cars as well), I would upgrade to the racing transmission and use the flappy paddles on the wheel.

However, I'm not a purist... I'm someone who wants to use the best tool for the job and because this is a video game I'm going to work within the confines of what I'm allowed to use in the video game. That said, I haven't noticed much of any difference between the Fully Manual transmission and the Racing transmission while being exclusively on a flappy paddle wheel setup. Both work about equally in my book. Like I said, I have only noticed 1 car to have a noticeable change between the Manual and racing transmissions. I have A/B tested the 2 transmissions with a number of cars and they feel and react basically the same. If I notice one feels better than the other, I generally go with the better one for the job but it's still a toss-up on what other things can benefit from the extra pp you gain from using the manual transmission. I'm pretty sure I use the manual transmission with the 787B because I could add more front-end downforce and decrease the ballast giving the car better overall handling characteristics (for my driving style), better acceleration and better braking performance. These 3 things far outweigh any benefits the racing transmission gave over the manual transmission.

I suppose the purist would also believe that the 787B never came with a flappy paddle shifter and therefore should only get the manual transmission put in it instead of a racing transmission even if I don't have a manual shifter setup as part of my sim rig.

I'm in the camp that says whatever works and gives you the fastest times is all good. I'm certainly not a die hard purist by any means

 

[Tommy_D]

I'm in the camp that says whatever works and gives you the fastest times is all good. I'm certainly not a die hard purist by any means

I agree. The only thing I don't subscribe to is the wall riding stuff people like to do on Tokyo as a means of completing that race quickly. It doesn't make you a better driver and doesnt teach you how to get around the track faster, despite you running faster lap times. That to me is "cheating" even though it is allowed within the game.

 

[Tommy_D]

Ok, first comment on your setup ( without having driven the car yet ) :
The advantage vs. @John Wedley regarding the PP calculation is that you're using the Manual Transmission, not the Racing Transmission which obviously "is worth" quite a couple of PP.
It's the first time I come across this and I'm curious ... 👍

Took a look again and one other difference is that I am using the high RPM turbo as well. John's setup had no turbo upgrade done.

 

[ROCKET JOE]

Took a look again and one other difference is that I am using the high RPM turbo as well. John's setup had no turbo upgrade done.

Of course.
I initially didn't notice you use the manual transmission when I applied your setup on my car. I then upgraded to the high rpm turbo.
However, after meeting the PP requirement, I ended up with less power and torque then John's car has ... which made me check your settings again to then discover the reason.
So, what I was trying to say was, as long as there's no difference in performance between manual and racing transmission, it seems quite clever saving PP here and spent them for more power. 👍

 

[Tommy_D]

Gotcha.

 

[Cerebral303]

Thanks to the people providing tunes. Been having some lovely races at Sardegna and it's allowed me to buy a few lovely classic Gr 1 cars that keep appearing in the Legendary Dealership.

I have two questions -

For the Spa tune should I just change the gearing max speed from 250 to 320? Not sure how much downforce to take off. Would the car with the same Sardegna tune still win easily?

For variety I'm wondering if the Nissan R92CP or the Jag XJ9 or that shiny Merc C9 that just popped up again in the Legendary Dealer would be good with a similar detune. I love the Mazda the most, so I'm happy it's the one this tune is for, but is there a problem with the others? I might give them a go.

 

[Tommy_D]

Thanks to the people providing tunes. Been having some lovely races at Sardegna and it's allowed me to buy a few lovely classic Gr 1 cars that keep appearing in the Legendary Dealership.

I have two questions -

For the Spa tune should I just change the gearing max speed from 250 to 320? Not sure how much downforce to take off. Would the car with the same Sardegna tune still win easily?

For variety I'm wondering if the Nissan R92CP or the Jag XJ9 or that shiny Merc C9 that just popped up again in the Legendary Dealer would be good with a similar detune. I love the Mazda the most, so I'm happy it's the one this tune is for, but is there a problem with the others? I might give them a go.

The Nissan is nice but not as fast as the Mazda. It's still an easy win. I still haven't tried the Jag just yet and I plan on doing a couple races today to buy the Sauber. I hear that car is pretty amazing.

 

[Chikane_GTR]

Ok I tried it again this time with a suggestion from @MidnightRun85 to switch to manual transmission I got my fastest time so far and the whole race on FM1 pitting on lap 10/11 not cause of fuel but dead tires it could had been faster but I made a mistake in the second to last turn that cost me around 8 to 10 seconds.

 

[MidnightRun85]

Ok I tried it again this time with a suggestion from @MidnightRun85 to switch to manual transmission I got my fastest time so far and the whole race on FM1 pitting on lap 10/11 not cause of fuel but dead tires it could had been faster but I made a mistake in the second to last turn that cost me around 8 to 10 seconds.
View attachment 1227081

Cracking time! Keep working on that car at that race and you'll be turning in 1:36 laps and breaking through into the 24 minute zone in no time!

 

[Chikane_GTR]

Finally hit below 25 minutes.

 

[Pizzapants]

I agree. The only thing I don't subscribe to is the wall riding stuff people like to do on Tokyo as a means of completing that race quickly. It doesn't make you a better driver and doesnt teach you how to get around the track faster, despite you running faster lap times. That to me is "cheating" even though it is allowed within the game.

Nobody wall rides thinking they’re better than people who don’t. The point of wall riding on Tokyo is simply to get credits faster, since the grind to get a large collection in this game is just stupid. It’s an easy 825k in 23 minutes of driving and dodging braindead AI.

 

[Cerebral303]

I got bored grinding normally and I felt sorry that Martin Grady was destined o never finish higher than 5th so one race I punted off and held back cars that would normally finish in front, enough to give him a lead, and then drove out of my skin to come in 1st still, with Martin in 2nd.

And I still got the clean race bonus!

 

[Tommy_D]

Nobody wall rides thinking they’re better than people who don’t. The point of wall riding on Tokyo is simply to get credits faster, since the grind to get a large collection in this game is just stupid. It’s an easy 825k in 23 minutes of driving and dodging braindead AI.

I'm not saying I think people "think" they are better than others because they wall ride, I'm saying that wall riding does not teach people how to be better drivers. It is an exploit people use to finish the race faster while turning their brain off to mindlessly get credits. I believe wall riding should remove the clean race bonus because your car will in no way be "clean" after an entire race of wall riding. If anything, you would have blown tires, destroyed wheels, damaged suspension components and a completely shredded left side of the car. Thats why I call it "cheating" because people are exploiting a part of the game mechanics that should have been fixed many updates ago, if not many generations of game ago.

 

[Pizzapants]

I'm not saying I think people "think" they are better than others because they wall ride, I'm saying that wall riding does not teach people how to be better drivers. It is an exploit people use to finish the race faster while turning their brain off to mindlessly get credits. I believe wall riding should remove the clean race bonus because your car will in no way be "clean" after an entire race of wall riding. If anything, you would have blown tires, destroyed wheels, damaged suspension components and a completely shredded left side of the car. Thats why I call it "cheating" because people are exploiting a part of the game mechanics that should have been fixed many updates ago, if not many generations of game ago.

Wall riding on Tokyo only became a thing with one of the most recent updates. Before that, hitting the wall did end your Clean Race Bonus, and incurred huge time penalties. Polyphony intentionally changed it. So go accuse them instead of being weirdly judgmental of players playing the game by it’s own rules.