A Belgian Memphis day in May 2011

  • Thread starter Thread starter kikie
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Hey, hey, there's nothing wrong with the Belgains. They make great tasting waffles. Weird that they're looking at the Memphis community.
 
GT_Prologue5
Hey, hey, there's nothing wrong with the Belgains. They make great tasting waffles. Weird that they're looking at the Memphis community.
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I wasn't. It was mentioned on a Belgian news site.

I wonder what this festival is all about.
 
GT_Prologue5
I don't know, Belgians saluting in Memphis?
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Or Americans saluting Belgians. That's even more weird.

Jondot
It's probably still better than Memphis.
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I don't know anything about Memphis but what I do know is that Belgium is almost bankrupt, like Greece. The politicians are the most corrupted and stupid politicians. Not even to mention the linguistic conflict. The air, water and ground is heavily poluted. Taxes are amongst the highest in Europe, maybe even in the world.
If you want to start a business, you are always hindered by the politicians and the very old and sophisticated laws.

Every country has it's positive sides. But there are not many positive things worth mentioning.

Belgian politicians = corrupt, stupid and money-grubbers
 
Well, then you don;t know much about Belgium obviously.
Belgian are normally kind people.
Great food, great beer. Sometimes even great writers, musicans and also very nice culture.

To mention Belgium that way doens' t show the respect that Belgium deserves. đź‘Ž:grumpy:
 
Submerged
Its actually "money-grabbers"
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Money-grubber is correct.

money-grubbing
adj Informal seeking greedily to obtain money at every opportunitymoney-grubber n
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http://www.thefreedictionary.com/money-grubbing

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/money-grubbing

rsh
Well, then you don;t know much about Belgium obviously.
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You're funny. :p



Did I mention anything about Belgians as a people, culture, food, beer, musicans and writers? Nope I didn't. I was talking about the economical/political situation.
 
In that matter your are also miles off :sly:

Belgium is neither bankrupt or are there politicians very corrupt.
They do have 3 languages that makes for difficult politics, but more corroput then, let' s say American, Russians, German or Swedish politicians? Show me the proof then, I am very curious....
 
rsh
In that matter your are also miles off :sly:

Belgium is neither bankrupt or are there politicians very corrupt.
They do have 3 languages that makes for difficult politics, but more corroput then, let' s say American, Russians, German or Swedish politicians? Show me the proof then, I am very curious....
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No I'm not (= miles off). I said that Belgium is almost bankrupt. I never said that Belgium is bankrupt.

08.09.2009 - Federal Minister Guy Vanhengel (Flemish liberals – VLD) has declared that Belgium, with its budget deficit of 20-25 billion Euros, is virtually bankrupt. “We are on the verge of disaster”, Vanhengel said. “The longer we wait, the worse it gets”. Fasten your seatbelts, new taxes are on their way…

The liberal Budget Minister is now confronted with the consequences of the squandermania under Guy Verhofstadt’s (former VLD prime Minister) rule. For years on – when things were looking bright on a financial and an economical level – they have spent all our reserves. Unfortunately, Vanhengel does not mention this…

And now we’re left holding the baby: a gigantic budget deficit. But no need to worry: the tax payer will be faced with the consequences – and Belgian taxes are already among the highest in the European Union. Off course, Flanders will have to make an effort (again) to close the budget gap. As usual. “Federal solidarity”, it is called, but it is actually nothing more than ordinary theft of Flemish money and Flemish prosperity.

Furthermore, there is the financial impact of the massive regularisation campaign, which will cost us tons of money. Something the press and the traditional political parties do not talk about, of course.
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http://www.vlaamsbelang.org/56/73

I find it odd that a Dutchman is defending Belgium. I'm pleasantly surprised. đź‘Ť


Politicians are corrupt. Don't need to proof that, everybody knows that, it's their nature. Power corrupts. But then again, almost every politician in the world is corrupt. The call of money/power/wealth is too great.

I'm not going to discuss the political/financial state of Belgium. This thread is about 'a Belgian Memphis day in 2001'. Maybe I should change the thread title.
 
kikie
No I'm not (= miles off). I said that Belgium is almost bankrupt. I never said that Belgium is bankrupt.


http://www.vlaamsbelang.org/56/73
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If you're going to be the authority on Belgian politics you shouldn't start off by quoting political propaganda from the extreme right wing racists of the Vlaamsbelang party. Your source is not credible, new taxes didn't come through anyway.

Also: f.ex. US total deficit: link redirects. Belgium isn't doing too bad. Sure we have debts, so does every other country. And no, we're in no way in the same situation as Greece or Spain. It seems to me you started off on the wrong foot, assuming Belgium was nearly bankrupt, and only after that started looking for sources to back that information. Next up you're going to say Belgium is an illegal country that shouldn't exist, guess what, there's websites claiming that too, doesn't make it true either.

I find it odd that a Dutchman is defending Belgium. I'm pleasantly surprised. đź‘Ť
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I find it odd that someone is so opposed to a festival that's clearly aimed at celebrating the people and the culture (instead of the economy and the politics). Why do you care what the political climate is over here?

About the corruption: there will always be corruption here and there, the only thing you can do is prosecute any violators. And that's exactly what happens, there's a clear deterrent to discourage politicians from accepting bribes or abusing their powers.

In conclusion:
I don't understand why anyone would love another country for its politics or economy. It's the people in the streets and the culture that get my attention, wherever I go. Politics and economy are secondary to that in terms of how I rate a country.

-Z
 
Zembla
If you're going to be the authority on Belgian politics you shouldn't start off by quoting political propaganda from the extreme right wing racists of the Vlaamsbelang party. Your source is not credible, new taxes didn't come through anyway.
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I'm not an authority on Belgian politics. You do know that the quote about Belgium almost being bankrupt is made by Federal Minister Guy Vanhengel (Flemish liberals – VLD), not the Vlaamsbelang. Guy Vanhengel is the source, not the Vlaamsbelang. So you're explanation is not credible. Guy Vanhengel said this at the end of 2009. Do you really believe that a country (Belgium in this case) can get financially sound again (i.e. from not almost being bankrupt to doing ok like you said) in almost a year after having serious debts for decades? I think not.
I know about the Vlaamsbelang and I agree with you them being racists. Luckily they've softened their programme a bit over the years. But you also should know that some points of the Vlaamsbelang's programme were made into laws a few years later by other politicians.

Taxation in Belgium

money-HEAD.gif
From tax rates through to special expat status, here is Expatica's updated guide to the Belgian taxation system.

Expatriates and Belgian citizens alike suffer from one of the highest taxation rates in the EU. In November 2009, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development confirmed once again that Belgium has one of the highest tax burdens in Europe. It amounts to – including social security – 57.3% for a single earner. This compares to an average 44.5% in Europe. An expatriate working in Belgium will typically be liable to Belgian income tax. Additionally, property tax, gift and succession duty may be relevant. In most circumstances there are no capital gains taxes or wealth tax for individuals in Belgium, thus pushing the burden firmly onto the employee.
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And that's not getting better.

Zembla
Also: f.ex. US total deficit: link redirects. Belgium isn't doing too bad.
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I'm not so sure about that.

Zembla
Sure we have debts, so does every other country. And no, we're in no way in the same situation as Greece or Spain.
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Agreed. I also said that Belgium is almost bankrupt which is a totally different scenario than being bankrupt.

Zembla
It seems to me you started off on the wrong foot, assuming Belgium was nearly bankrupt, and only after that started looking for sources to back that information.
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Mmmm, maybe. It's been on the news and I'm not talking about the national Belgian news.

Zembla
Next up you're going to say Belgium is an illegal country that shouldn't exist, guess what, there's websites claiming that too, doesn't make it true either.
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Really? I'd love to read that. Link please.

Zembla
I find it odd that someone is so opposed to a festival that's clearly aimed at celebrating the people and the culture (instead of the economy and the politics). Why do you care what the political climate is over here?
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Sarcasme my friend, sarcasme. I don't really like Belgium (My personal opinion). Now I'm going to get my butt kicked. :p
Ofcourse Belgium has it's positive points, I'm not going to dispute that. Let's see. Belgians are friendly and I'm not talking about a superficial friendship. Food is good. Beer? I don't know because I don't drink alcohol. It's very diverce, geologically. Smart scientists. Belgians are good with languages. Spa Fracorchamps :p A few top atletes. Beautiful architecture. etc... . One of the best health care system in the world etc... .

Zembla
About the corruption: there will always be corruption here and there, the only thing you can do is prosecute any violators. And that's exactly what happens, there's a clear deterrent to discourage politicians from accepting bribes or abusing their powers.
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True!

Zembla
In conclusion:
I don't understand why anyone would love another country for its politics or economy. It's the people in the streets and the culture that get my attention, wherever I go. Politics and economy are secondary to that in terms of how I rate a country.
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I respect that, and I agree once more.
 
kikie
I don't know anything about Memphis but what I do know is that Belgium is almost bankrupt, like Greece. The politicians are the most corrupted and stupid politicians. Not even to mention the linguistic conflict. The air, water and ground is heavily poluted. Taxes are amongst the highest in Europe, maybe even in the world.
If you want to start a business, you are always hindered by the politicians and the very old and sophisticated laws.

Every country has it's positive sides. But there are not many positive things worth mentioning.

Belgian politicians = corrupt, stupid and money-grubbers
Click to expand...

As far as I've heard Memphis isn't particularly brilliant. My sister's been and she didn't care for it. On the other hand, I've been to Belgium and had some lovely chocolate. I know which I'd vote for.
 
At least, Americans in Memphis will have a taste of what is fine beer, wafles and chocolate ;D

I lived in Belgium for 11 years, there are some really cool people there as are a-holes, but that is the same in every country. I had some really nice experience there (girls, drugs and rock) as negatives (racists, les lulu, belgians know what i'm talking about). All in all most of them are really nice and kind people like kikie or VinceFiero ;)
But my 11 years were enough for me :) , happy to be back in my country

And it's not like they all talked 3 languages, they are neither switzerland, nor luxemburg. Infact they hate talk in an other language than their native ones. And come one a lot of politicans are corrupt. With power comes great responsibility and most have none, and that's the case not only for politicans. But what is striking in belgian politicans is that they kind of haven't a gouverment for over 1.5 years because of a stupid debate over the spoken language in one region near bruxelles, and now they even have the president role of the EU without a real gouverment!
 
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Jondot
As far as I've heard Memphis isn't particularly brilliant. My sister's been and she didn't care for it. On the other hand, I've been to Belgium and had some lovely chocolate. I know which I'd vote for.
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I know which I would vote for as well. I vote for Belgium. Like I said, I don't know anything about Memphis, so I can't vote for something I don't know anything about. I have no idea what Memphis is like.

*ibo* S3 Racer
At least, Americans in Memphis will have a taste of what is fine beer, wafles and chocolate ;D

I lived in Belgium for 11 years, there are some really cool people there as are a-holes, but that is the same in every country. I had some really nice experience there (girls, drugs and rock) as negatives (racists, les lulu, belgians know what i'm talking about). All in all most of them are really nice and kind people like kikie or VinceFiero ;)
But my 11 years were enough for me :) , happy to be back in my country

And it's not like they all talked 3 languages, they are neither switzerland, nor luxemburg. Infact they hate talk in an other language than their native ones. And come one a lot of politicans are corrupt. With power comes great responsibility and most have none, and that's the case not only for politicans. and now they even have the president role of the EU without a real gouverment!
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So true. Let me give you an example. A few years ago I was riding home on my bicycle. Suddenly a van with 2 Germans pulled along side of me and asked in German where the post office was. I refused to answer in German (I can because I've been going on holiday to Austria since I was 3 y.o.). I answered in Dutch (Flemish). They must have thought that I didn't understand or speak German. To my surprise, they spoke a little Dutch.
When I go to a foreign country, I try to speak 'their' language. If I can't, I'll ask if they speak English. But when a foreigner comes to Belgium, the don't aven bother trying to speak Dutch or English. Ahhh, the arrogance.
Don't start by saying; but these people may not know how to speak Dutch. Fair enough but why don't they try to learn a little bit of Dutch before they decide to come to Belgium.
If I go on holiday, I have to speak their language but when foreigners come to Belgium, I also have to speak their language.

*ibo* S3 Racer
But what is striking in belgian politicans is that they kind of haven't a gouverment for over 1.5 years because of a stupid debate over the spoken language in one region near bruxelles,...
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Halle-Vilvoorde?

A friend of mine, see photos in my Austrian ski trip thread, is Chinese but he's born and raised in Belgium. Well, he doesn't live here anymore. He moved to Hong-Kong although he's a Chinese-Belgian whom lived all of his live, until 2004, in Belgium. He doesn't want to live here anymore. He's sick and tired of all the problems in Belgium. His exact words: "België is een apenland" ( = Belgium is a monkeyland) and I agree.

A few months ago I went to Eindhoven (The Netherlands) to test drive the Tesla Roadster. After the test drive Rogier Kroymans and I started talking about Belgium. He started talking about Belgium's problems in a typical and very arrogant/superior-thinking Dutch way. The only way Dutchmen know how to talk/think. (this is an observation, a fact, not an insult). He wants to open a dealership in Belgium as well but he's afraid to do so and doesn't know where because of all the political/social and other problems. Although I didn't like the way he talked, he was telling the truth and I agreed with him, totally.

Instead of getting foreign companies to invest in Belgium, the ex Belgian government managed to scare these companies away due to the high taxes. The politicians refuse to lower the taxes. Why? Because they are stupid or like I said before money-grubbers.
I'm one of those Belgians that would like to get rid of the Monarch (King Albert) and split Belgium into two parts. Flemish part independant. I don't know what the result will be. Maybe more problems, maybe not. But if we don't try, we won't know. And for the record; I'm NOT a Vlaamsbelanger, although they have a very few valid points.

Every country has it's problems, corruption etc... . I only know of our (Belgium) problems and I'm not proud of it.

It seems that I started discussing the political situation after all. :ouch:
 
memphis = Elvis museum !! And there is some high performance driving school "near" (Bob Durant??)

As for the language : English is the key. That worked for me everywhere. But i also speak 4 languages fluently, 2 languages mediocre and Dutch was a long time ago but Ik sprek een betten neederlands ( i know grammar)

As for Belgium as a country : in reality if you would work your problems the country has a "good" future. We see how Belgium will resolve it's problem. (Why not instaure the 3 or 2 main languages as mandatory classes in school)
If you would split (highly inprobable) i think the flemish would be way better of (you have the naval ports and diamonds and a better sense of business). When i was as Knogge as little boy their were always tons of ferraris. In Arlon or Liege i saw maybe 3 in 11 years
And just to say : Luxemburg don't want the wallons if you split, the french can have them ;D
 
*ibo* S3 Racer
We see how Belgium will resolve it's problem. (Why not instaure the 3 or 2 main languages as mandatory classes in school)
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It is, in the Flanders. I started learning French and Dutch (grammar, spelling etc...) when I was 6 y.o. and English when I was 13 y.o.. After high school, when I started studying accountancy and marketing, I still had French classes.

I don't know what the situation is in the Wallonian schools though. I do know that the biggest part of Flemish speaking people from Brussels speak Dutch and French as the French speaking people from Brussels only speak French. They refuse to speak Dutch.

Other bilingual countries don't seem to have these problems, I think.

Isn't Canada bilingual? >> French and English.

Isn't Switserland multilingual? They don't seem to have any problems, not that I heard of anyway.

Isn't Holland somewhat bilingual. >> The Netherlands and Friesland. They don't seem to have any problems.

I don't know about England exactly but isn't Wales a part of the UK and still somewhat independant? Brits, help me out. Educate me.

All positive points aside, Belgium is a mess.

Mij gedacht!
 
In wallonie, you have as first language French (obviously). Then English as second language (mandatory) and as third language you can choose between german and dutch. the third language is based on your study options. So a lot of people never learn a thrid language, and if it's mostly german.

So it really seems that the francophones would need to step it up.

And yeah most multilingual countries don't have problem like that.


As for America. There is a little town called Belgium, Wisconsin, but it's "the town of luxembourgers" which they are now celebrating
 
Didn't realise you were Belgian as well Kikie :)

My original reply may have been a little fierce, mainly because I've had a few arguments like these on other forums, where the argumentation/opinion was usually based on invalid assumptions. Being a Belgian, I'd figure you understand the way our country works :)

But then there's that; "being a Belgian". Most of the people I know consider themselves Flemish first, and Belgian second. It's a logical sentiment if you consider this: when you go to Brussels, and you live in Antwerp, you'll be an "Antwerpenaar". When you go to Wallonia, you'll be Flemish. But when you go to France, you'll be a Belgian. Most of our country's identity only exists beyond our borders.

The way things are right now, in my understanding, stems in a large part from history. The Zoniën woud in the past formed a natural barrier. In the north there were the Germanistic tribes, in the south there were the Gaull tribes. De Bello Gallico only talks about one subject: the Germanistic tribes. So there's this natural barrier that made sure the language wouldn't cross over for hundreds of years. I guess we're, in a way, still feeling the results from that.

Anyway; politically Belgium is a nuclear wasteland. Ranging from the "wafelijzer politiek" (waffle iron politics*) to the Walloon government not respecting the seriousness of some of the argumentation points on the Flemish political agenda... it's very difficult to get something done. One party will always be afraid the other party will get an advantage, and they'll be left with the cold side of a good deal. There's a lot of jealousy, and the political system in Flanders and in Wallonia is very different. In Flanders politicians are less of the immortals that they are made to be in Wallonia, is what I'm trying to say.

Anyway, it's about time our politicians untangle themselves. On June 13th the Flemish sent a strong message by voting for NVA in large numbers. Now it's time to let democracy do its work.

* Waffle iron politics: When f.ex. an investment is made in Flanders, the Walloons will want to get an investment done of there as well. So as not to feel left out, works both ways AFAIK. Result: the port of Antwerp (Flanders) is expanded, the Walloons get some useless bridge that nobody uses, just so they've had something. So for many expenses, we spend twice as much, where we only should spend half.

-Z
 
Zembla
Didn't realise you were Belgian as well Kikie :)-Z
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Yep. I'm a 'Kempenaar'. I come from a town were 'all the radios are active'. :p. Part of Belgium with the worst sounding dialect.
 

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