A little rant on how poor this "simulation" is.

[danjama]

It's not really about that a wheel is superior for lap times, it's about the fact that the guy firmly believes the physics are wrong even though his only connection to the game is a couple of buttons with no feel. The physics simply can't be judged thorougly that way, it's a lot more like remote controlling than driving. I bet nobody in their right minds would play the PC sims with a keyboard and then say they handle badly yet many people use the Sixaxis and complain like there was no tomorrow.

true but keyboards really are rubbish (i know this because i tried to play gtr and gtr2 with one and ended up getting an adapter to use my ps2 control in its place)

Keyboards are completely useless, whereas a control allows you to do well. I understand what your saying the wheel is the more realistic interface fair enough, but i dont think this should be such a deciding factor in peoples authority during discussions.

 

[Scaff]

I wouldn't say so to be honest, I think this thread has managed to not turn into an insult fest, despite the odd bit of name calling which Viper has quite rightly just ignored.

It's especially interesting to hear SpeedyK's thoughts. Scaff, do you have a link to perhaps a bit more of a report on your investigations into grip levels and tyre types compared to real life?

I'm aware that I'm no authority on the following subject, having not driven a Corvette in real life, especially not with the same carefree abandon as in GT5: P, but putting that car on N3s (as is claimed to be the most accurate I believe?) seems to make it exceptionally tail happy, first gear is rendered pretty much useless.

It just seem unlikely that a road going car with what will inevitably be massively wide rear tyres can light up the rear wheels so easily with so little throttle.

Unfortunately I don't have a great deal of experience, I've done a few laps in a sample of high performance cars (for a track experience day) and have been a race marshall before for about a year, so I've been around and been for rides in quite a few 'proper' sports cars.

Another example, I've been taken out in a few different TVRs, and I guess (not bought it yet) that the Tuscan is going to also be pretty wild on N3s through the low gears, whereas the Tuscan I went out in (stock road car) was able to deal with a planted throttle without lighting up the rear tyres (not so much in first gear admittedly )

I'm more than happy to be enlightened on the matter, so any research you've done, given your wealth of experience, I'd be very interested to read

Here you go....

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=71113

....as I say it was done for GT4.

In regard to real life TVR's, I've driven a few and the main reason why they feel a bit tamer is that the throttle travel is very, very long on them. Which means going straight to wide open throttle is a lot quicker in the game (regardless of using a controller or a wheel) that in reality. This in particular applies to the TVR, but its also a factor with all the cars.

In regard to spinning the tyres up, I must admit I've managed to do it in a Tamora in both 1st and 2nd gear. Give it a bit of silly abuse and 1st gear in a TVR is practically pointless, most owners and drivers will change up well before they get the throttle open fully.


Regards

Scaff

 

[roflator]

Sure if its for fun

What's you time?

It's the number 1 time in arcade time trial ranking so you can see it from the leaderboard. I'm not at home now so I can't check it. If I recall right something around 54.2. Hope to see you in topten in the rankings(should be quite easy)

 

[Small_Fryz]

Well what an interesting thread. As much as i would want to voice my opinion ive driven very little in real life, sadly.... so i doubt anybody would listen.

Eitherway i think GT5P is a MASSIVE jump over GT4 and while i havnt tried normal physics mode, i have had a go with Professional physics on S2's with no aids and i must say it is quite impressive for a console game. You now have to really treat each input (brake / gas / turning) with respect and be ultra smooth or you will spin, not just loose a tenth or so, but spin off the track. Ive drive Rfactor and GTL for 2+ years now and while its hard to debate the phyiscs between them i can say that the feeling of the car is much better in the PC games than in GT5P, thankfully thats something that can probably be improved with patches, as for the actual way the car responds to inputs id say GT5P is very similar to the Sims on PC.

Now while i dont have much real life experience to draw on i have managed to do quite well in GTL / Rfactor and GT over the years and have become a decent driver. So im certainly not some noob that struggles and cant drive.

bottom line. GT5P isnt better than Rfactor or GTL but its a massive jump over GT4 and with a bit more work on the feedback GT5P can be a real nice game.

 

[phil_2001]

GTR2 good tyre simulation? Hahaha don't make me laugh. I thought GTR2's official poor side was tyre simulation I mean the whole physics engine needs to be improved a lot in order to get those simulations proprely done. GT5 is not the perfect simulation of course, but it will get there eventually. Until then I will enjoy it as much as I can. I don't like GTR2.

 

[Havok_]

interesting thread. my 2 cents will be as follows:
1) the developers of GT have gotten the physics (professional mode) set perfectly, I have an EVO 9 and the digital representation gives me goose bumps.

2) the tires are a bit off. Mainly the s2's. any tire lesser than s3 seems to lack serious bite. The sidewalls seem very weak for some reason. The S3 tires are very good though.

that's it. GT5 has revolutionized my thoughts on what a driving sim should be and has far exceeded anything else on the market and will only get better from here on..

 

[snowdog58]

Personally i find with the G25 wheel and the Physics on pro the game handles really well and glare isn't a problem, (after all, that big shiny thing in the sky is kinda bright). Some of the penalties are a bit off. I don't mind getting a penalty if i screw up, (It Happens To Us All), but when some oily tick puts you in the barrier or outbreaks himself and rear ends you, and you end up with the penalty
is annoying.

 

[Viperguy324]

So, what does the "viper" part of your name refer to?

It has to do with my job.

Viper, you are a n00b, if it's too hard for you, play Need For Speed, the reason the tires feel like wood is because this is REAL feel, not those nfs ice skate tires, also guys, I use a control, but I use both analogue sticks for smoothness. Also, in real life you would get a penalty for cutting even if was a much slower car, if your faster, overtaking normally should be easy anyway.


Now i'm off for the wekend, so don't bother replying directly to me.

Wow .. you must be some tough guy.. Do you normally say negative things to people and run off?

So the problem is that you can't change the tyres? So this option is not there yet. What's the big deal? You accuse the game of being unrealistic because cars which would normally use slicks don't use slicks here? How is that unrealistic exactly?

Go to the track and find cars racing other cars with streetable tires. Thats how realistic.

ok, then you have NO right at all to complain. I don't use a wheel either (because my DFP is ****ed up) and i should be honest and say I've used standard physics for a while now because pro was not even fun with the controller.. The pro physics seems realistic to me tough but I can't be sure until I have a G25 or DFGT. And how can you be so stupid saying it is not a simulation???

Go drive a car on a track and you will see. Then when you have some time turn on the Rolex Cup and count how many times they slide thru turns..


Also to all the other "arm chair racers" ...i'm still waiting on that video showing a 1st on S10 using a lotus and not using cars as rails.

 

[Kryz11]

To be hones, to me sound sounds like a kid. One of the Xobx Live kids that play a game for like an hour and complain right off the bat.

 

[Viperguy324]

To be hones, to me sound sounds like a kid. One of the Xobx Live kids that play a game for like an hour and complain right off the bat.

Far from it... I have owned every PS system and have lost weeks to it..

On Dirt it says i have 17 hrs driving

I would guess about the same on GT5P

 

[Kryz11]

I don't really mean that you play xobx or whatever, but you know how annoying those kids are. And the way you wrote your first POST in this thread, Its annoying.

 

[roflator]

I would say, don't feed the trolls. But that's just me.

 

[Kryz11]

I would say, don't feed the trolls. But that's just me.

👍
I'm staying away from this thread for good now.
See you guys in other threads

 

[Viperguy324]

I would say, don't feed the trolls. But that's just me.

No trolling.. I'm just after a video backing up everyones claim.

 

[daan]

It has to do with my job.

Which is?

Or would you have to kill me if you told me?

 

[Viperguy324]

Which is?

Or would you have to kill me if you told me?

I'm a Senior Ground Engineer (Sr. Crew Chief) on the F-16 ... ask scaff for my name (he has it as it is my email address) you can do a search ..as this type job is tracked.. you will find me on the F-16 net.

Now for more name calling....

 

[Rykon Zero]

I don't even own a PS3, they're far too expensive for me. I was merely venting earlier in the conversation. What I think you should do, viperguy, is that you give us a video on your attempts on s10, and we'll help you along. alright?

 

[Viperguy324]

I don't even own a PS3, they're far too expensive for me. I was merely venting earlier in the conversation. What I think you should do, viperguy, is that you give us a video on your attempts on s10, and we'll help you along. alright?

Ha .. no chance. It took me way to much time to even get a pic hosted.. and I still messed that up. I have no way to take a video.

 

[PalmerW]

after 7 pages, i think we got your point. let's move on shall we.

 

[the Interceptor]

I still fail to see the point why this game as a poor simulation because of tires that aren't 100% true to life. This is just one tiny aspect of the game.

And what's a video of S-10 going to prove?

 

[Viperguy324]

I still fail to see the point why this game as a poor simulation because of tires that aren't 100% true to life. This is just one tiny aspect of the game.

And what's a video of S-10 going to prove?

I want to see someone with a lotus take 1st without finding ways that would never be accepted in racing...

Tires are a huge factor in racing.

So far I think this is a bumpercar simulator at this stage.... I like it as a game.. and the other races are much better.. this S10 is where it goes over the top... read the other threads about daytona road course and using cars to slow down ... this is all i'm getting good at.

 

[roflator]

No trolling.. I'm just after a video backing up everyones claim.

Simply enough, what's the claim everyone is making?

 

[the Interceptor]

I want to see someone with a lotus take 1st without finding ways that would never be accepted in racing...

Why? I think that winning thise race on pro settings with an Elise is a very hard task, that can only be managed by few people. But what does that prove?

Tires are a huge factor in racing.

They sure are, but they still only are a fraction of this game, and I don't see why the whole game is bad because this fraction might not be perfect.

 

[Zetec-ss]

if you dont like the N tyres just put it to S. if you dont like S put it to R. simple.

 

[magburner]

Your right about the sports tyres thing. I can't get my GT40 Test Car into any online race unless it has sports tyres on it. Seems a little ridiculous to have such a powerful car with such crappy tyres. Other than that, your right. You are ranting! 👍

 

[Viperguy324]

if you dont like the N tyres just put it to S. if you dont like S put it to R. simple.

Double post I know ..where is the delete button?

 

[Viperguy324]

Simply enough, what's the claim everyone is making?

They are claiming..it is not a problem and I must suck

Why? I think that winning thise race on pro settings with an Elise is a very hard task, that can only be managed by few people. But what does that prove?
They sure are, but they still only are a fraction of this game, and I don't see why the whole game is bad because this fraction might not be perfect.

I did not say the whole game is crap.. re-read my first post

Your right about the sports tyres thing. I can't get my GT40 Test Car into any online race unless it has sports tyres on it. Seems a little ridiculous to have such a powerful car with such crappy tyres. Other than that, your right. You are ranting! 👍

Bingo..

 

[Scaff]

Go to the track and find cars racing other cars with streetable tires. Thats how realistic.

I'm sorry but plenty of race events run with cars on street legal tyres...

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2674619&postcount=31

...the link above will take you to a series of pictures I took at a race meeting at my local track from last year. Of the various events running, the majority had cars running on street legal tyres, that includes the Formula Ford series (that's right cars that are not street legal running on street legal road tyres) cars which can be seen sat on the grid.



An extract from the regulation of the Saloon Car Championship from the above event

Only Road Tyres which are “E” marked compliant with MSA Regulation [C(e) Production Tyres]
are permitted and must be listed on MSA Approved List 1A (C(e)].

Source - http://www.castlecombecircuit.co.uk/Castle Combe Saloon Car Regulations 2008.pdf

Go drive a car on a track and you will see. Then when you have some time turn on the Rolex Cup and count how many times they slide thru turns..

Sorry but are you saying that cars that are racing do do ever slide through corners?

It depends entirely on the race series in question, the more downforce the cars are generating the less sliding you are going to see, go watch a Formula Ford race, they do nothing but slide through the corners as the cars generate zero downforce (in fact the generate lift).

Your applying generalisations about a particular race series to all forms of motorsport. Cars when racing, particularly those directly derived from road cars (so not silhouette series) will slide when cornering. They are on the brink of grip and its going to happen.


Regards

Scaff

 

[roflator]

They are claiming..it is not a problem and I must suck

I ignored those posts as they had almost zero content. Don't fancy reading insults.

My feelings about gt5 prologue are pretty good.

I feel that the physics model especially when driven with wheel is a huge step up from previous gran turismos. It just feels and acts so much better. After the europe version added abs off it feels even more real. Playing with sixaxis just isn't the same and physics cannot be judged by playing with pad.

The game modes are bare bone and AI is not that good. Bumping on online games runs wild too. These I can manage because I'm currently just learning to drive in the game. I have hopes that next patch adds private games and after that we can just kick out the trouble makers and play with good company.

All that said, naturally this game is not perfect nor will it ever be. But seeing current progress I have a feeling this is going to be a game of the year for me and I have high hopes that it gets better with every patch... Even now it just plain rocks when driving different cars around the tracks.

If there are specific parts that the physic model has wrong that would be interesting discussion. The tires not so much as it's mostly matter of just choosing the *right* tires.

As for the specific event, is it actually a bug in the physics or just plain stupid decision from the event maker... I would propose latter if it's impossible to win with lotus. At least original japanese version contained plenty of events that were impossible to beat on professional physics.

 

[Viperguy324]

I'm sorry but plenty of race events run with cars on street legal tyres...

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2674619&postcount=31

...the link above will take you to a series of pictures I took at a race meeting at my local track from last year. Of the various events running, the majority had cars running on street legal tyres, that includes the Formula Ford series (that's right cars that are not street legal running on street legal road tyres) cars which can be seen sat on the grid.






Sorry but are you saying that cars that are racing do do ever slide through corners?

It depends entirely on the race series in question, the more downforce the cars are generating the less sliding you are going to see, go watch a Formula Ford race, they do nothing but slide through the corners as the cars generate zero downforce (in fact the generate lift).

Your applying generalisations about a particular race series to all forms of motorsport. Cars when racing, particularly those directly derived from road cars (so not silhouette series) will slide when cornering. They are on the brink of grip and its going to happen.


Regards

Scaff

I know all about formula fords... are there any in the game?

I'm baseing my assesment on a the type of cars used in the game. Those cars in those pics do not look like series type cars at all. They look like local racers that are driving for little trophies.. not contingancy money.

You are twisting this into a broad generalzation... I dont expect the market based cars in the game to always run on slicks.. But as it has been said you don't take a GT-40 to the track to race cars(to win)..with street tires.