ABS GT5 vs IRL

[zqxwjv]

How does GT5's adjustable ABS (1-10) compare to IRL. Which setting would generally correspond to the ABS on a performance car such as Z06 or F430?

 

[dabest2500]

I believe that ABS 0 in real life = ABS 1 in GT5.
That's what I read on here anyways, but I can't find the thread.

 

[zqxwjv]

When the setting is increased in GT5 does the sensitivity change or just the brake force?

 

[dabest2500]

Sensitivity.
10 allows you to brake and turn more than usual.

 

[spapadillion]

ABS 0 = ABS 0

Without ABS, in real life, when you stomp the brake pedal, the wheels lock and you go skidding off into the grass/fence/pond/school etc. Same as with GT5.

And the higher you make the setting, the sooner the computer gets off the brakes for you when they start to lock.

 

[Griffith500]

I believe that ABS 0 in real life = ABS 1 in GT5.
That's what I read on here anyways, but I can't find the thread.

Not at all true. ABS set to 0 is off in GT5, just as it is in real life. Anything else is Super-pre-cog Threshold-o-matic 9001™ ABS - basically it's far superior to any real-world ABS system on the planet.

Adjusting to a higher number does indeed allow for less understeer during trail braking, which is not something that exists in many real cars (the Evo X supposedly has something similar, tied into the ACD and AYC systems.)

 

[dabest2500]

Not at all true. ABS set to 0 is off in GT5, just as it is in real life. Anything else is Super-pre-cog Threshold-o-matic 9001™ ABS - basically it's far superior to any real-world ABS system on the planet.

Adjusting to a higher number does indeed allow for less understeer during trail braking, which is not something that exists in many real cars (the Evo X supposedly has something similar, tied into the ACD and AYC systems.)

In the FGT as soon as I touch the brakes in a straight line, the brakes lock.

 

[Griffith500]

In the FGT as soon as I touch the brakes in a straight line, the brakes lock.

With ABS on? I don't have an FGT, so I can't test this for myself.
Tyres just squealing is where you want to be when braking, but with ABS off in GT5 the best braking occurs with the wheels just about to lock, so that smoke is pouring off them (another inaccuracy...)

Are you sure the wheels are actually locked? If so, try different "brake bias" settings, which are in fact relative power settings. Reducing the overall power could help you, e.g. by changing the default 5 / 5 to 5 / 3 or 4 / 2 or 3 / 1 etc. If nothing changes, then something's up with that car. Every car I've tested will not lock its wheels with ABS set to any value other than 0.

 

[dabest2500]

With ABS on? I don't have an FGT, so I can't test this for myself.
Tyres just squealing is where you want to be when braking, but with ABS off in GT5 the best braking occurs with the wheels just about to lock, so that smoke is pouring off them (another inaccuracy...)

Are you sure the wheels are actually locked? If so, try different "brake bias" settings, which are in fact relative power settings. Reducing the overall power could help you, e.g. by changing the default 5 / 5 to 5 / 3 or 4 / 2 or 3 / 1 etc. If nothing changes, then something's up with that car. Every car I've tested will not lock its wheels with ABS set to any value other than 0.

With ABS OFF.
The wheels just lock and the tyres go red.

 

[calan_svc]

Lots of threads on this topic, but to paraphrase Griffith500; GT5's ABS has little or nothing to do with ABS in real life. (BTW... ever notice that the tires constantly squeal while braking, whether they are locked or not? I see this quite often...errr.. always.)

Most people just leave ABS set to "1" and get on with it, since GT5's low-speed and braking physics seem to be pretty hosed.

 

[shirakawaa]

Lots of threads on this topic, but to paraphrase Griffith500; GT5's ABS has little or nothing to do with ABS in real life. (BTW... ever notice that the tires constantly squeal while braking, whether they are locked or not? I see this quite often...errr.. always.)

Most people just leave ABS set to "1" and get on with it, since GT5's low-speed and braking physics seem to be pretty hosed.

It's not only the ABS (in real life there are different systems of varying performance. Basically the newer the car, the more efficient the ABS, but never as much as the Polyphony Digital ABS even on the "1" setting), braking dynamics as a whole in the game are only a very rough approximation of real life. (in addition to the tire model, especially at low speed. This might play a role in how braking is handled in the game).

PD could get some information from Bosch on how ABS systems work.

 

[Griffith500]

With ABS OFF.
The wheels just lock and the tyres go red.

Change your "brake bias" settings to something lower overall, and make sure the actual percentage bias is driveable (i.e. around 60% front or higher, depending on the car)
To find the bias, divide the front power by the sum of both powers. E.g. 5 front, 3 rear is 5 / 8 = 62.5 % front; 3 front, 1 rear is 3 / 4 = 75 % front.

Notice that the lower overall power (sum of both numbers) results in fewer possible "bias" settings. Some cars will only work well with odd bias settings - for example, the Mazda NC Roadster was a handful for me with ABS off until I switched to a 5 front, 1 rear brake setting, so 5 / 6 = 83 % front. High downforce cars can possibly run between 50 and 60 % front bias, but anything less than 50% is asking for trouble! Note that many road cars without ABS typically have their bias set in excess of 70% front.

It's not only the ABS (in real life there are different systems of varying performance. Basically the newer the car, the more efficient the ABS, but never as much as the Polyphony Digital ABS even on the "1" setting), braking dynamics as a whole in the game are only a very rough approximation of real life. (in addition to the tire model, especially at low speed. This might play a role in how braking is handled in the game).

PD could get some information from Bosch on how ABS systems work.

The Mazda I mentioned above was the first time I'd noticed something really funny about the brakes. It was like the front brakes were on the rear and vice-versa! Something tells me the mechanical simulation aspects of GT5 are the most lacking.

Real-world-style ABS would be nice, but they'd have to operate over many frames of the physics calculations to be realistic. I'm not sure what effect that would have, though. I know that LFS's devs have abandoned trying to incorporate the VW Scirocco's actual electronic behaviour, although I think they attributed that solely to the new tyre model... despite earlier reports claiming that it was taking longer and becoming far more involving than originally anticipated!

 

[dabest2500]

Change your "brake bias" settings to something lower overall, and make sure the actual percentage bias is driveable (i.e. around 60% front or higher, depending on the car)
To find the bias, divide the front power by the sum of both powers. E.g. 5 front, 3 rear is 5 / 8 = 62.5 % front; 3 front, 1 rear is 3 / 4 = 75 % front.

Notice that the lower overall power (sum of both numbers) results in fewer possible "bias" settings. Some cars will only work well with odd bias settings - for example, the Mazda NC Roadster was a handful for me with ABS off until I switched to a 5 front, 1 rear brake setting, so 5 / 6 = 83 % front. High downforce cars can possibly run between 50 and 60 % front bias, but anything less than 50% is asking for trouble! Note that many road cars without ABS typically have their bias set in excess of 70% front.

A bit off topic but for the Alfa 8C challenge Gran Tour, is this doable there?
Also, I want to keep the FGT stock so it's fair for the AI.

 

[Griffith500]

A bit off topic but for the Alfa 8C challenge Gran Tour, is this doable there?
Also, I want to keep the FGT stock so it's fair for the AI.

Brake bias settings are not given default values per car like suspension or gear ratios etc. They are set to 5 / 5 for every car, but almost no car has a brake bias of 50%! That is, there is no "stock" when it comes to brake bias in GT5. Even if you knew the actual bias from the car, getting it to work properly in GT5 may be difficult, since the bias and power settings are tied together. That is, in order to get a bias percentage setting close to stock, you may end up running an overall power that is too high or too low - i.e. not like stock!

You have to find what works for each car individually. I've found one setting that tends to work for me with most cars, though - you just have to find the equivalent for your controller / driving style. I've got the load cell mod on my G25, and I tend to jump straight to a 5 / 3 setting which is often close enough. If not, I faff with the RA menu until it's "just right."

That's what I did with the 8C event, quickly adjusting the brake bias before the first corner! Sometimes, you only have to do it once (e.g. AMG events), others every time.

 

[dabest2500]

How did you get that "cell mod"?
Also, did you have to do it everytime for the 8C event?
Did you use no aids?
And what was your time?

 

[Griffith500]

1. How did you get that "cell mod"?
2. Also, did you have to do it everytime for the 8C event?
3. Did you use no aids?
4. And what was your time?

1. AP Electrix, he does them in batches, so you might have to wait if you want one. There are other, cheaper alternatives. A quick search for G25 brake mods should cover it.
   
2. I don't remember if I had to or not, but it's not really much of an inconvenience once you get into the habit of checking (although it is annoying sometimes, I've gone barreling off on the first turn from forgetting to change it online...)
   
3. No aids at all.
   
4. No idea, but I got gold - eventually.

 

[RikkiGT-R]

I just can't use ABS off in GT5. Lock lock lock lock.

Could be because I use a DS3; I've heard using a steering wheel makes it much more realistic?

 

[Counter_Z23]

I just can't use ABS off in GT5. Lock lock lock lock.

Could be because I use a DS3; I've heard using a steering wheel makes it much more realistic?

I try it sometimes with my DS3. Just don't apply too much pressure and it would be fine.

I sometimes use it for drifting and I apply enough pressure so that the back end slides out a bit.

For racing though I use ABS 1.

 

[Dennisch]

The only time I turned off the ABS was in the Nascar Specials, and on the S-8 license test, with the 8C at Suzuka...

 

[GeneralJesh]

Huh I'm fine without ABS and using the DS3.
L2/R2 and brake bias make everything better !

 

[RikkiGT-R]

Huh I'm fine without ABS and using the DS3.
L2/R2 and brake bias make everything better !

Could you elaborate a little? I'm willing to accept that some tuning/set-up might make all the difference.

 

[Dennisch]

Huh I'm fine without ABS and using the DS3.
L2/R2 and brake bias make everything better !

I wouldn't say it makes things better, but if you use L2/R2 it is absolutely possible to drive without ABS, but for me, I'm better of with ABS..

 

[dabest2500]

1. AP Electrix, he does them in batches, so you might have to wait if you want one. There are other, cheaper alternatives. A quick search for G25 brake mods should cover it.
   
2. I don't remember if I had to or not, but it's not really much of an inconvenience once you get into the habit of checking (although it is annoying sometimes, I've gone barreling off on the first turn from forgetting to change it online...)
   
3. No aids at all.
   
4. No idea, but I got gold - eventually.

Ah dammit, I have a DFP.