Aggressive driving in Sport Mode.

[kilesa4568]

For years, I've been a bit of a wimp when it comes to racing and trying to create chances or holding position but I'm starting to question whether to change that to better suit Sport Mode.

Do I say enough's enough and fight back or should I carry on cutting my losses by not get involved in their overly aggressive daftness?

 

[DC2_Evan]

If someone is overly aggressive, I just let them by because chances are, they are going to take themselves out pretty quickly. If I'm racing someone and that have some respect and at least try to keep it clean, I'll race them and put up a good fight. Its more about knowing when to pick your battles IMHO.

 

[kilesa4568]

If someone is overly aggressive, I just let them by because chances are, they are going to take themselves out pretty quickly.

...if they don't though? Isn't there an argument to stop or at least slow them down before they cause even more trouble?

I had a few races last night where the same toerags were bullying their way through the field and they made the races toxic. Drivers I'd previously had good races with were all hip and shoulder after being on the receiving end of rough treatment. Looking for revenge probably and I was in the way of their target. Toerag mode seems to be infectious and if they can keep their car on the track, it seems to be rewarding.

I'm not talking about punting people off. Just trying to make them think twice about dumb moves.

 

[DC2_Evan]

...if they don't though? Isn't there an argument to stop or at least slow them down before they cause even more trouble?

I had a few races last night where the same toerags were bullying their way through the field and they made the races toxic. Drivers I'd previously had good races with were all hip and shoulder after being on the receiving end of rough treatment. Looking for revenge probably and I was in the way of their target. Toerag mode seems to be infectious and if they can keep their car on the track, it seems to be rewarding.

I'm not talking about punting people off. Just trying to make them think twice about dumb moves.

Usually I'll let them by pretty easy, as it seems they are faster than me anyways. But then I start applying alot of pressure. Either they are much faster than me and will pull away with ease, or we are fairly evenly matched and I'll start sticking my nose in, faking moves, following closely, etc. I like to play with them, try to force a mistake on their end without ever touching them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

 

[Keith2324]

I agree with your sentiments, but dirty drivers are going to be just that; dirty drivers. There is nothing "you" can do to change that. And if you continue to be around them, you will simply get caught up in their rage.

What puzzles me though is this. At least in my experience, the dirty drivers were pretty fast. If they spent more time driving cleanly, they would get better results. And then you have the ones' who don't care about driving a good race. They just like creating carnage. Nothing you can do about that.

Keith.

 

[Shottah072]

I aim to race people hard but fair.

But... and this is very rare for me... if people are being complete tools and pushing me and/or others off track with stupid silly moves multiple times i might give them a taste of their own medicine. You have to take them out good though or they will get back at you and it will turn into a shoving match. Not proud of these moments but you have to be a complete moron to get me to the point that i'll risk my race and ratings to get you back.

 

[DC2_Evan]

I aim to race people hard but fair.

But... and this is very rare for me... if people are being complete tools and pushing me and/or others off track with stupid silly moves multiple times i might give them a taste of their own medicine. You have to take them out good though or they will get back at you and it will turn into a shoving match. Not proud of these moments but you have to be a complete moron to get me to the point that i'll risk my race and ratings to get you back.

I'd be lying if I said I've never done this. It is few and far between though.

 

[AUTISTICBOYX]

There is aggressive driving and then there's being an asshole. I think shottah described it perfectly.

 

[Veinz]

I aim to race people hard but fair.

But... and this is very rare for me... if people are being complete tools and pushing me and/or others off track with stupid silly moves multiple times i might give them a taste of their own medicine. You have to take them out good though or they will get back at you and it will turn into a shoving match. Not proud of these moments but you have to be a complete moron to get me to the point that i'll risk my race and ratings to get you back.

I am the same way. I race as clean as I can, but I have no problems running someone out of road into the grass if they race like an ass. Fight fire with fire, or else these people will just keep walking all over you.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I drive insanely aggressive but I respect everyone's right to the track and never run people off or slam the door on them. I know the game's SR system isn't accurate but I've been SR S for almost all of the rule changes.

All of that being said though, I do frequently place my car in places to create problems for dirty drivers.

• If you illegally weave block, I am going to feint to the outside on dive bomb you because if you can't figure out where you're going then I can't either.
• If you try to slam the door on me during a shared corner, I will place my car on your rear flank so you'll punt yourself.
• If we run two wide on an exit line and you run mid track trying to cut my line, I will run you to the outer edge of the track but I will leave you more than a car width on the outer edge.
• If you make a last minute move to the outside during my braking line, I will not wait for you to get your place back after I accidentally ram you into the wall.

Of all of those tactics, only the last one negatively effects my SR.

Looking back at that list, the more loose they make these rules the more I end up racing like it's GTA Online.

If someone is overly aggressive, I just let them by because chances are, they are going to take themselves out pretty quickly. If I'm racing someone and that have some respect and at least try to keep it clean, I'll race them and put up a good fight. Its more about knowing when to pick your battles IMHO.

It's funny, I like your approach as it's more ethically sound. However, putting it into practice I always feel guilty running close behind a dirty driver because you end up using them as offensive blocker as you reap the benefits of them ramming people out of your way. I know that's not your intent and I think you're ethically sound here, but I always felt worse gaining on good drivers via the dirty driver.

 

[Jamie Bbbbb]

Agree with @Shottah072 about racing hard but fair, but I don't think seeking revenge against someone is justifiable in any circumstance. The best way to beat a troll is always to ignore them.

 

[DJShadesUK]

There is nothing "you" can do to change that

Oh but there is...

You have to take them out good though or they will get back at you

No, you don't. You can be far more subtle and not damage your own SR. If you indentify an absolute moron, who has no problems being overly agressive and pushing you about (but not enough to push you off the track and get themselves a penalty) then, when they touch you, simply drive off the track yourself, watch the flashing penalty indicator appear above their car and have a bloody good laugh about the fact they're probably raging! If your race is being ruined by them and you feel like being particularly vengeful catch back up to them, tap them and, again, drive off the track yourself. Rinse and repeat as many times as you can knowing that you are, more than likely, causing them to drop SR and they will be out of your hair for a bit as they try to recover their SR while, most importantly, annoying other people!

 

[Groundfish]

I don’t do tit for tat. Replays get saved. People get remembered.
I don’t start wars.
Only once I went to war with some of my South American friends.
I payed for it in sr and looking at the replays was bad. I deleted them. Never again.
Took quite a few carefully selected races to get my s back.

 

[NevilleNobody]

Most contact i find is people missing braking points and also trying to pass through the relentless fake track S curve sectors (every damnded track is loaded with a fast S section or four). People just need to be a little more patient.

other big crash causation is the Megane, it's slow on the straight but INSANELY fast through corners, at Gardens it's impossible to race this thing cleanly cos they are ALL OVER YOU through the 4 fast right handers and usually end up banging you in the rear as you are so much slower than them.

 

[DC2_Evan]

It's funny, I like your approach as it's more ethically sound. However, putting it into practice I always feel guilty running close behind a dirty driver because you end up using them as offensive blocker as you reap the benefits of them ramming people out of your way. I know that's not your intent and I think you're ethically sound here, but I always felt worse gaining on good drivers via the dirty driver.

Usually when this happens I'm mid pack with other people who are racing dirty. If I'm near the front, I'll still apply pressure but not quite as much, but I do get what you're saying. I stay at Sr99 so I feel it's not quite as bad for dirty drivers but it still happens.

 

[kilesa4568]

Forgot to mention that this is primarily about DRB sprint races. That might change the complexion of the topic, sorry...

So you get the gist of how I currently race, one bump, no problem. Two bumps gets me nervous and three gets a 'WTF?' It's pretty obvious they don't care about making contact so where do you draw the line? I've never drawn a line. I just figure if it means that much to them, I'll let them go but then the problem is in front rather than behind.

I don't think seeking revenge against someone is justifiable in any circumstance. The best way to beat a troll is always to ignore them.

Usually they bring enough rope to hang themselves but the people who game the system in sprint races often slip the knot. They're good enough at it to get away with scrubbing penalties at the end.

I've read from almost everyone on this forum that they've got a snap point. I haven't got one. I'm playing a game so I just get back on with it but sometimes it's tempting to try and teach a couple of lessons. Seriously tempting. I really don't like that I'm starting to think like that but what good comes from good race craft when it gets beaten by bad race craft? The moral high ground is bittersweet when you're punted from a good race result.

Maybe reporting the worst offenders to PD works?

 

[O604]

I'm not aggressive. I do need to learn to be.

I let cars pass. More than 50% of the time I get the spot back due to the driver pushing too hard. And often while following that car pass another, etc. For a net gain in spots.

Overly aggressive drivers are great for clearing a path in front.

 

[Furinkazen]

If you see someone divebombing everyone, just let them go. High chance they'll mess up and if they hit you PD will probably penalise you for existing in the same zip code as them.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Forgot to mention that this is primarily about DRB sprint races. That might change the complexion of the topic, sorry...

So you get the gist of how I currently race, one bump, no problem. Two bumps gets me nervous and three gets a 'WTF?' It's pretty obvious they don't care about making contact so where do you draw the line? I've never drawn a line. I just figure if it means that much to them, I'll let them go but then the problem is in front rather than behind.



Usually they bring enough rope to hang themselves but the people who game the system in sprint races often slip the knot. They're good enough at it to get away with scrubbing penalties at the end.

I've read from almost everyone on this forum that they've got a snap point. I haven't got one. I'm playing a game so I just get back on with it but sometimes it's tempting to try and teach a couple of lessons. Seriously tempting. I really don't like that I'm starting to think like that but what good comes from good race craft when it gets beaten by bad race craft? The moral high ground is bittersweet when you're punted from a good race result.

Maybe reporting the worst offenders to PD works?

I've 'taught' a lesson about 4 times in almost 4000 races. It takes a lot to set me off yet it can happen. And I do meet pretty much all dirty drivers as I hardly every qualify, start behind the slow qualifiers in front of other non qualifiers, some thinking they can barge past me, some others not knowing their braking points yet. However it's often malicious, at least not in SR.S. That filter does work somewhat to keep the intentional punters away.

However I do race differently depending on the car I'm dealing with. Normally I'll patiently follow and only go for a clean contact free pass when all is safe. Yet when you start bumping, pushing and dirty blocking, I'll hold my line and not move out of the way to avoid further contact (unless it would put me in danger of running off the track) and start feigning moves and get closer behind. That's usually enough for the car in front to run themselves off or if they're smart they'll back down.

That does risk you getting penalties as the game has zero concept of corner rights, leaving room or weave blocking whatsoever. If the other car bounces off you at the apex and run themselves off, you get the penalty. I've had plenty incidents where I get bumped from behind in the corner and the car behind loses control, goes off, and I get a penalty. I usually leave room on the outside to give a car missing their braking point a safe out (while defending the inside line), yet some just choose to bump you while flashing their lights. If the bump is not too hard I can still safe the corner, yet lose time and get a penalty when the car behind loses it...

Reporting does not work, or perhaps PD ignores my reports Anyway the best 'strategy' still is to let the overly aggressive driver go by and literally clear a path for you in front. Sadly I've made up plenty positions following a car that bumps everyone out of the way... Then I pass them when their penalty gets too high

 

[ROCKET JOE]

I haven't posted here in weeks now, haven't even read too much tbh, but ... well, here I am, bro. We've shared track a lot and I always admired your almost unbreakable British, or maybe just mature fairplay and mindset in regard to racing. You don't throw that away, right 👍 ?
You know, me I've never been too shy of giving payback every once in a while, it's always been like 'hit me once, hit me twice ... but there's a limit to my generosity', so I'd say there's nothing wrong with a bit of enhanced aggressiveness .
I've never been proud of such action and I'm afraid that applies to you too. What's more, you probably won't do yourself a favor if you care for your ratings .

... Do I say enough's enough and fight back ...

Give it a try but please, don't start running offtrack deliberately to hand out penalties ... or any other of that piss game techniques !

PS
Let us know how you're doing - I'm still waiting for something to get me back into SM racing.


Post No. 1000 ...

 

[kilesa4568]

I gave it a try tonight and all I can say is, I crossed a lot of lines drawn by other drivers and dropped from SRS to SRC.

The crazy thing was that I was rightfully defending my line but getting constant nibbles. I stick to the track, they crash and give me a penalty. Nothing too big but they sure accumulate fast with how often people were crashing.

Switched back to the old style, put a slightly better lap in and won 4 of my last 5 races with zero contact. I think I'll leave the aggressive racing to the aggressive people.

...and congrats on the 1000 and to see you active on here again.

 

[AUTISTICBOYX]

Oh but there is...


No, you don't. You can be far more subtle and not damage your own SR. If you indentify an absolute moron, who has no problems being overly agressive and pushing you about (but not enough to push you off the track and get themselves a penalty) then, when they touch you, simply drive off the track yourself, watch the flashing penalty indicator appear above their car and have a bloody good laugh about the fact they're probably raging! If your race is being ruined by them and you feel like being particularly vengeful catch back up to them, tap them and, again, drive off the track yourself. Rinse and repeat as many times as you can knowing that you are, more than likely, causing them to drop SR and they will be out of your hair for a bit as they try to recover their SR while, most importantly, annoying other people!

Well that just goes to show how frivilously frail this penalty system can be. Effectively giving the dirty driver an advantage when gaming the system. Not fast or clean enough to make a pass? Well no problem, just make contact and briefly move out of bounds... the only saving grace is that not many people have mastered this technique as its inherently counter-intuitive.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I gave it a try tonight and all I can say is, I crossed a lot of lines drawn by other drivers and dropped from SRS to SRC.

The crazy thing was that I was rightfully defending my line but getting constant nibbles. I stick to the track, they crash and give me a penalty. Nothing too big but they sure accumulate fast with how often people were crashing.

Switched back to the old style, put a slightly better lap in and won 4 of my last 5 races with zero contact. I think I'll leave the aggressive racing to the aggressive people.

...and congrats on the 1000 and to see you active on here again.

Well. it's easy to win contact free when you start on pole in SR.C

I just got a penalty for letting a dive through that then swung his car in between me and the car I was following (under braking) as I was just lifting off the brakes slightly. He was still braking while swerving over, I hit the brakes again yet now I'm sucked in his slipstream into him, I bump, he bumps the car in front, I bump him again. Pinball physics don't help.

Next lap another dive bomb, yet this time me and the car I was behind both got out of the way, just giving up the position. It worked as he drove himself off half a lap later. That final chicane at Suzuka is no fun with dirty drivers. Don't bother looking at the apex, mirror, mirror, radar, mirror, mirror, ok maybe it's safe now.

 

[kilesa4568]

I've not even set a time for Suzuka. I don't want to be tempted to race there as contact is usually catastrophic. You get punted at Degner 1, you end up at Alsace.

 

[GTWelsh]

The best way to beat a troll is always to ignore them.

I disagree with this generally in the world of online racing. If someone is clearly running people off, brake checking, etc, then nudging them off wide into a corner to save the rest of the racers is a good deed imo. I can understand your approach however.

 

[baldgye]

Well. it's easy to win contact free when you start on pole in SR.C

I just got a penalty for letting a dive through that then swung his car in between me and the car I was following (under braking) as I was just lifting off the brakes slightly. He was still braking while swerving over, I hit the brakes again yet now I'm sucked in his slipstream into him, I bump, he bumps the car in front, I bump him again. Pinball physics don't help.

Next lap another dive bomb, yet this time me and the car I was behind both got out of the way, just giving up the position. It worked as he drove himself off half a lap later. That final chicane at Suzuka is no fun with dirty drivers. Don't bother looking at the apex, mirror, mirror, radar, mirror, mirror, ok maybe it's safe now.

What makes that chicane even worse than most I think, is just how hard it is to judge the breaking point and how few markers there are for you to judge.
I know I've messed up my breaking there many times. Cones don't help either because for some insane reason PD gave them collision physics...

 

[Krypton78]

For years, I've been a bit of a wimp when it comes to racing and trying to create chances or holding position but I'm starting to question whether to change that to better suit Sport Mode.

Do I say enough's enough and fight back or should I carry on cutting my losses by not get involved in their overly aggressive daftness?

A very good question and I think hard to answer. The most difficult part in a race are the first 2 laps for me. If I'm to carefull in order to avoid contact, I get run over, if not I risk to cause the trouble myself.

But after all, in long term it never went out well for myself when I answered rudeness with rudeness

 

[WaikeCU]

I also race hard and fair.

I'll protect the line so they can't take the inside line, but I stay on the line under braking. I don't move under braking. I do however change direction when I try overtake somebody on the inside and the car in front protects the inside line right before braking. I will lift, move from the inside back to the outside and brake just to get a better drive and exit out of the corner so I'll overtake the car in front on the exit instead of during the turn.

When something goes wrong for instance, I totally missed my braking point and take somebody off, I'll wait until the car I knocked off resumes and I'll drive behind it.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

What makes that chicane even worse than most I think, is just how hard it is to judge the breaking point and how few markers there are for you to judge.
I know I've messed up my breaking there many times. Cones don't help either because for some insane reason PD gave them collision physics...

I use the distance markers on the left on the wall. When the red "time gap to leader" bar hits the 100 distance marker I start braking. A little before when behind someone. Sometimes I get thrown off when that time gap thing is missing on screen...

Very easy to spot anyway. Unless you are overtaking on the right and you can't see it, as the car to my right behind me experienced...

 

[Alpha Cipher]

I use the distance markers on the left on the wall. When the red "time gap to leader" bar hits the 100 distance marker I start braking. A little before when behind someone. Sometimes I get thrown off when that time gap thing is missing on screen...

Very easy to spot anyway. Unless you are overtaking on the right and you can't see it, as the car to my right behind me experienced...

That's really cheeky
I just wing my braking point there (125m). I honestly don't know how I go through there everytime consistently

No I haven't crash onto someone because of the brake markers. (Well, some close calls because someone wrecked them off the lap before and now I can't wing my way through there)