Aggressive driving in Sport Mode.

[WaikeCU]

Yeah that's the issue. The number of people trying to stuf fit up the inside at the awkward chicane at Gardens is remarkable, there's just no room, by bombing in you leave me nowhere to go, at all, so we tangle. Why not get a run on me and pass me at the end of the uphill straight?

Imbeciles.

100% agree. I've got alot of those as well. I mean if we collide, you're only losing a lot of time: Slower through the chicane than usual and slow exit onto the straight, so cars behind will catch up, because they have a nice and clean exit. Result: clean overtake by the time we reach the end of the straight.

Lots of drivers/players think "Oh I've got the inside line, now you have to yield and let me through!" *facepalm*

 

[NevilleNobody]

100% agree. I've got alot of those as well. I mean if we collide, you're only losing a lot of time: Slower through the chicane than usual and slow exit onto the straight, so cars behind will catch up, because they have a nice and clean exit. Result: clean overtake by the time we reach the end of the straight.

Lots of drivers/players think "Oh I've got the inside line, now you have to yield and let me through!" *facepalm*

I am a huge believer in the outside man having to leave space but that assumes you are somewhat beside me, if i swing wide to take said chicane correctly and your front bumpber is half a car length behind my rear bumper, you are in no position to pass because i HAVE to turn in, I just have to, no choice.

 

[kilesa4568]

In first ... because it's a really dirty move exploiting the flaws of the game to your own advantage - the exact same move the dark side uses. You claim to be a clean racer in self-defense but that doesn't make it any better and to me it's just one more contribution to low-quality-racing.

I'm not much of a gamer ( GT actually is the only game I've ever played ), I just love driving these cars as quick as possible and I've learned to love OL racing ... according to racing rules ! So using gaming tactics on track is somehow beyond my horizon and what's more, I just don't want to sink to the scumbag's level and I was sure @kilesa4568 ( couldn't you be my native English voice-over again ? ) doesn't like that too.

I'm not talking about that one odd moment when you lose your head in anger and switch to vengeance mode. We're human after all, so that doesn't shock me in the least but leaves me amused ... I'm talking about an impression I have ( and please allow me to leave it at that without going into details ) that more and more people have started to incorporate gaming tactics and weird track behavior into their racing just to be successful. And that's not me, simple as that.

In second ... more generally speaking ... you're not the FIA nor the police nor the judge nor anything and it's just not up to us to punish other players. Self-defense ? Ok, defend yourself ... on track ... according to racing rules.
I might be a bit over-sensitive here but the eye-for-an-eye-approach always makes me think we've hopefully left the middle-ages some time ago !

Do you ever watch the T24 or FIA videos on youtube? They're how our old QM group used to race against each other. Just a little bit slower.

I miss that type of racing so much. Full awareness and always fair to each other, but in sport mode, we're dinosaurs...or just slow A+ drivers? We're competitive but we're not sport mode competitive, with all the point gathering involved and final position overriding how we actually got there.

It's tragic that it's turned into dog eat dog racing (below A+) and driven the quick and fair drivers like yourself away as your race craft is top drawer stuff. Always a pleasure to race against you. I'm just making the best of a bad job by not looking at rank and taking each race as it comes. Quick match style, and just like quick match with all the trolls, they're not going to make me quit. I'll drive as fast or as slow as I like and remain clean and courteous. Dirty and/or overly aggressive drivers can shove their ill gotten ranking points up their arse.

 

[vxr58]

I saw somebody take out Momoz big time today

 

[DJShadesUK]

In first ... because it's a really dirty move exploiting the flaws of the game to your own advantage

So you think tapping someone then running off track yourself gives you advantage? 9 times out of 10 you end up finishing behind the person anyway, unless they manage to take themselves off at some point (or someone else they've annoyed takes them out), not that that really matters because the whole point is they've ruined your race in the first place.

I'm not talking about that one odd moment when you lose your head in anger and switch to vengeance mode. We're human after all, so that doesn't shock me in the least but leaves me amused

I used to do that, however not only was it damaging to my own SR, but other innocent parties often got caught up in red-mist-revenge moments. Now I know I can do it I just prefer to calmly nibble away at their SR and no-one else gets caught in the crossfire.

In second ... more generally speaking ... you're not the FIA nor the police nor the judge nor anything and it's just not up to us to punish other players.

Well Sony/PD sure as **** ain't doing anything about dirty scumbags in Sport Mode - especially since the weakening of penalities in the 1.23/24 update where PD tilted things heavily back in favour of dirty players - so it is up to us to police our own community (just like we would in general lobbies except we can actually kick people).

Lots of drivers/players think "Oh I've got the inside line, now you have to yield and let me through!" *facepalm*

i HAVE to turn in, I just have to, no choice.

Nothing personal guys but you're both wrong. Lets take a real-world example from the BTCC at Knockhill last week; Look where the Astra (that ends up) on the inside starts the move from and, more importantly, what the Toyota on the outside does. Even the commentator says it: "He stops the car right on the apex and turns it. He didn't overshoot the corner". If someone makes a genuine move up the inside - not an obviously blatent divebomb with the sole aim of using you as a cornering assist and/or punting you off - then, like the Toyota in the clip, it is up to you to yield. The fact that it messes with your line matters not one tiny little bit. If you can't maintain the line you were going to take, because a car has snuck up in there and makes (or reasonably makes) the apex, then its up to you to adjust your line. Again, if its a genuine move, and not a dirty arse being a dirty arse, then you are not entitled to the bit of track you wanted just because thats where you planned on going.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Nothing personal guys but you're both wrong. Lets take a real-world example from the BTCC at Knockhill last week; Look where the Astra (that ends up) on the inside starts the move from and, more importantly, what the Toyota on the outside does. Even the commentator says it: "He stops the car right on the apex and turns it. He didn't overshoot the corner". If someone makes a genuine move up the inside - not an obviously blatent divebomb with the sole aim of using you as a cornering assist and/or punting you off - then, like the Toyota in the clip, it is up to you to yield. The fact that it messes with your line matters not one tiny little bit. If you can't maintain the line you were going to take, because a car has snuck up in there and makes (or reasonably makes) the apex, then its up to you to adjust your line. Again, if its a genuine move, and not a dirty arse being a dirty arse, then you are not entitled to the bit of track you wanted just because thats where you planned on going.

That would work if you know your opponents- you see those types of moves in the top 24 races where everybody knew each other

But in random daily lobbies you have to assume that everyone you don't know is dirty unless proven otherwise, and you have to assume that everybody thinks you're just as dirty as well. Any sort of late move into the apex will always be assumed as a divebomb- whether or not it's actually a clean move is irrelevant. This is why despite these clean late passes happening all the time in real life, most online racing leagues here won't allow for a pass without substantial overlap before the corner, and this is what the general consensus should be in Sport mode as well

 

[Groundfish]

Honestly, There’s times in weekly when I know I have overlap on the inside and have earned a right but unless I have raced a lap or two with the guy I’m not gonna do it because it will cause a problem.
You have tp ‘present yourself’. Better to an online opponent imo than real life.

 

[ROCKET JOE]

Do you ever watch the T24 or FIA videos on youtube? They're how our old QM group used to race against each other. Just a little bit slower. ...

I've only watched the T24 race that came with the 1.25 update so far ... and yes, that actually looked like racing how it should be 👍 - while most of the other vids and gifs posted here on the GT forums look like Mario Kart .
Speaking of that race :
Did you recognize a certain Scandinavian driver ? QM racing wasn't all bad practise obviously .
Not sure whether there's a comeback for me, a big thank you for your compliments though.
Keep on rocking, mate 👍 !!!

So you think tapping someone then running off track yourself gives you advantage? ...

Yes.
In your first post on page 1 you precisely described how to destroy someone's SR ( and DR too in certain cases ) in order to get rid of said person, temporarily at least. So yes ... there's your advantage.

... Well I Sony/PD sure as **** ain't doing anything about dirty scumbags in Sport Mode - especially since the weakening of penalities in the 1.23/24 update where PD tilted things heavily back in favour of dirty players - so it is up to us to police our own community (just like we would in general lobbies except we can actually kick people).

No.
Feel free to do whatever you want in your private lobby. In a SM mode lobby however we should accept what PD gave us imo : A message / report function.

 

[kilesa4568]

Did you recognize a certain Scandinavian driver ? QM racing wasn't all bad practise obviously .

Nunbuhfore. We trained him well didn't we?

 

[DJShadesUK]

But in random daily lobbies you have to assume that everyone you don't know is dirty unless proven otherwise, and you have to assume that everybody thinks you're just as dirty as well. Any sort of late move into the apex will always be assumed as a divebomb- whether or not it's actually a clean move is irrelevant. This is why despite these clean late passes happening all the time in real life, most online racing leagues here won't allow for a pass without substantial overlap before the corner, and this is what the general consensus should be in Sport mode as well

Sorry, but that is complete nonsense. A clean pass on my part is a clean pass, there is nothing irrelevant about that. What someone else does, through lack of racecraft or whatever, is not my problem. It doesn't matter if there is half a car overlap or if I've come from 1 or 100 foot behind; if I sneak up the inside, throw the anchors out, get it all pulled up and cleanly turning by the apex then track position is mine and its up to whoever is on the outside to adjust their line to avoid turning into me (or, better still, have the situational and tactical awareness to go for the undercut given my highly compromised shallow corner entry angle, resulting wide exit angle and later acceleration).

I suppose you're going to tell me I was in the wrong for this move - at one of my favourite places to late brake pass - at Interlagos two weeks ago... where the guy turned into me, despite me coming from behind, telegraphing the move and being 3 quarters of a car length ahead by the time of hitting the apex? His lack of situational awareness (to not know I was coming up the inside and/or avoiding turning into me), his lack of tactical awareness (not defending or changing the way he's taking the corner), his problem:





Maybe you should get on your expert-driver hotline and tell Daniel Ricciardo that he's doing it wrong too?

 

[cleanLX]

For instance last week at Lake Maggiore I was approaching the banked hairpin and saw someone in the mirror who obviously had a better run out the previous corners. So, within general rules in most motorsport series, I slowly, in one move with no contact, squeezed them over to the extreme inside of the track, leaving them a cars width.

I would like to see a replay of this... did you leave room of force 2 tires off?
And, why would you take it to that extreme anyways?
You've now destroyed your opportunity for an over-under.
If the over-under didn't work, you've also destroyed an opportunity to get a run out.
You've placed yourself in a position that begs contact if your opponent misjudges by even a couple of feet under braking, and and/or releasing the brake a fraction of a second early causing under steer.
You've also placed yourself in a position to be run to the outside, not only on corner entry put also on corner exit, and possibly forced off track be it on purpose or on accident.
You've shown your opponent you are willing to risk your, and their race to to negate their run.
Makes no sense to pull a bully move like that to me.
Someone gets a run on me I race it out, I don't force them to the tracks edge... especially not when it takes all of my tools away from me.
Someone pulls that move on me and I'm taking my line straight through to the outside of the corner, hope you don't turn in, cause you'll punt yourself.

As we approached the corner whoever it was hit me towards the left -

inevitable... arguable yes, yet still, you've put yourself and them in this position.

- then hit me again - okay, he/she is showing they're not going to be dominated - but then there was a third hit, then a 4th, 5th and finally a 6th where, because he/she was so obsessed with side-swiping me off the track, he/she missed the braking zone and we both ended up in the gravel trap.

and the poop show that was inevitable indeed unraveled.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Sorry, but that is complete nonsense. A clean pass on my part is a clean pass, there is nothing irrelevant about that. What someone else does, through lack of racecraft or whatever, is not my problem. It doesn't matter if there is half a car overlap or if I've come from 1 or 100 foot behind; if I sneak up the inside, throw the anchors out, get it all pulled up and cleanly turning by the apex then track position is mine and its up to whoever is on the outside to adjust their line to avoid turning into me (or, better still, have the situational and tactical awareness to go for the undercut given my highly compromised shallow corner entry angle, resulting wide exit angle and later acceleration).

I suppose you're going to tell me I was in the wrong for this move - at one of my favourite places to late brake pass - at Interlagos two weeks ago... where the guy turned into me, despite me coming from behind, telegraphing the move and being 3 quarters of a car length ahead by the time of hitting the apex? His lack of situational awareness (to not know I was coming up the inside and/or avoiding turning into me), his lack of tactical awareness (not defending or changing the way he's taking the corner), his problem:





Maybe you should get on your expert-driver hotline and tell Daniel Ricciardo that he's doing it wrong too?

Sorry, but this reeks of the pot calling the kettle black. You drive as much as he's not there as he does.
Compare your pass to Knockhill passing on the inside a few posts up. You don't turn on the Apex, you simply cut him off and don't even leave one car width at the exit. Yep, he was wrong, yet your line was wrong as well. 2 drivers not leaving room.

 

[DJShadesUK]

Sorry, but this reeks of the pot calling the kettle black. You drive as much as he's not there as he does.
Compare your pass to Knockhill passing on the inside a few posts up. You don't turn on the Apex, you simply cut him off and don't even leave one car width at the exit. Yep, he was wrong, yet your line was wrong as well. 2 drivers not leaving room.

Nonsense. Watch the clips of Ricciardo (especially the 2017 move on Kimi at 1:22). How many times does he hang someone out to dry coming into the left-hander part of the chicane? Why, because he has track position. If he wants to run his opponents out wide, leaving them with nowhere to go (and have to slow down lest they run off the track), he's entitled to do exactly that... and thats exactly what I did; I didn't need to leave a cars width on exit, I made the pass stick, he (or she?) wasn't alongside me (by what anyone would reasonably consider alongside), so I made sure to use every last bit of the track I could on exit and hang them out to dry too, exactly as I'm tactically allowed.

Oh, look. There's me not at (or thereabouts) the apex. There's me not having made a clean pass under braking, and ahead of the other car. There's me, being ahead, not entitled to take any god-damn line I want out of the corner, even if that means hanging him out to dry.

If we were side-by-side, rubbing door mirrors, I'd completely and utterly agree with you about not leaving room on exit. However, we weren't side by side, I had track position. Instead of accepting I'd made the pass and got track position he decided to turn into me, bouncing himself out wider and losing grip, rather than lifting slightly and tucking into my slipstream for the drag up to the start/finish straight (where the Ford would have ate me for breakfast, lunch and dinner. All day. Every day!)

Is Gran Turismo Sport a racing "simulator" or some namby-pamby daycare?

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Sorry, but that is complete nonsense. A clean pass on my part is a clean pass, there is nothing irrelevant about that. What someone else does, through lack of racecraft or whatever, is not my problem. It doesn't matter if there is half a car overlap or if I've come from 1 or 100 foot behind; if I sneak up the inside, throw the anchors out, get it all pulled up and cleanly turning by the apex then track position is mine and its up to whoever is on the outside to adjust their line to avoid turning into me (or, better still, have the situational and tactical awareness to go for the undercut given my highly compromised shallow corner entry angle, resulting wide exit angle and later acceleration).

I suppose you're going to tell me I was in the wrong for this move - at one of my favourite places to late brake pass - at Interlagos two weeks ago... where the guy turned into me, despite me coming from behind, telegraphing the move and being 3 quarters of a car length ahead by the time of hitting the apex? His lack of situational awareness (to not know I was coming up the inside and/or avoiding turning into me), his lack of tactical awareness (not defending or changing the way he's taking the corner), his problem:





Maybe you should get on your expert-driver hotline and tell Daniel Ricciardo that he's doing it wrong too?

Whatever floats your boat I guess

 

[cleanLX]

LOL @DJShadesUK... man, relax.
"I" think it was a risky, yet well executed pass, if that was the last lap...
You had overlap just at the turn-in point. If he was using mirror, he could see you had a slight run, and choose not to protect the inside... I would not have expected to get passed there either... unless it was the last lap...
If that was early or mid race "I" think it was overly aggressive... having said that I have a hard time calling it a full on divebomb.

 

[kilesa4568]

Pretty much guaranteed contact attempting that pass and too much risk for the reward. Not dirty but it was aggressive as by the time he hit his turn in, you'd only just finished braking but were already on a converging line. He had almost no time to react to a car he knew was beside him but was still unsighted. They did well to limit the contact as much as they did.

Trying to justify it with an example of Ricciardo's amazing passes, who is probably the best driver in F1 on the brakes doesn't work here either. This is about sport mode where the standard is a little bit lower. Unless you're comparing yourself to him?

namby-pamby daycare

That works for me. Trying to create safe passes with the minimum amount of risk sees me get good results and a nod of respect from other drivers who appreciate it when I refuse the quarter and half chances. Usually getting the same treatment back too.

Your move is begging for a tit for your tat in sport mode. Where stepping on toes gets you a hard smack in the mouth.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Nonsense. Watch the clips of Ricciardo (especially the 2017 move on Kimi at 1:22). How many times does he hang someone out to dry coming into the left-hander part of the chicane? Why, because he has track position. If he wants to run his opponents out wide, leaving them with nowhere to go (and have to slow down lest they run off the track), he's entitled to do exactly that... and thats exactly what I did; I didn't need to leave a cars width on exit, I made the pass stick, he (or she?) wasn't alongside me (by what anyone would reasonably consider alongside), so I made sure to use every last bit of the track I could on exit and hang them out to dry too, exactly as I'm tactically allowed.

View attachment 763019

Oh, look. There's me not at (or thereabouts) the apex. There's me not having made a clean pass under braking, and ahead of the other car. There's me, being ahead, not entitled to take any god-damn line I want out of the corner, even if that means hanging him out to dry.

If we were side-by-side, rubbing door mirrors, I'd completely and utterly agree with you about not leaving room on exit. However, we weren't side by side, I had track position. Instead of accepting I'd made the pass and got track position he decided to turn into me, bouncing himself out wider and losing grip, rather than lifting slightly and tucking into my slipstream for the drag up to the start/finish straight (where the Ford would have ate me for breakfast, lunch and dinner. All day. Every day!)

Is Gran Turismo Sport a racing "simulator" or some namby-pamby daycare?

You're only that much ahead because you did not intent to leave any room. You were carrying too much speed into the corner to go side by side, yet not enough to clear him completely and make the corner stick. Ergo you could not make that pass like that at that point in time. It's a failed dive, close to a dive bomb. You are making the pass, it's your responsibility to either clear him or leave room.

It was an aggressive pass, resulting in contact, and in this case I'm supporting PD in deducting SR from both players in these kind of incidents.

It's a no contact racing simulator, see the etiquette videos. That pass made you look bad...

 

[Groundfish]

DJ In most bits I have read about etiquette the overtaking driver is responsible for completing the overtake without contact. I’d say your move there was very close to unethical. but those are exactly the kind of moves I personally choose NOT to go for online generally. Your overlap there of front axle past his driver seat was absolutely at the latest possible moment and you are off the normal racing Line to boot. You were setting up for a textbook dive bomb which would be you on inside threshold braking unable to get the overlap but since you are threshold braking you are unable to get out of his line and punt him off.
So for me, I don’t cut things that close because a pass is not worth ruining a persons race and the slightest mistake turns me into a clown.
In your defense people online seem to refer to any move under braking as a dive bomb which is also wrong.
I wouldn’t do what you did there, but you did make it, that time.
In general I think it’s better to present your self earlier in the overtake process online meaning imo ALL the way alongside your opponent before turn in.
Only a fool would not concede that corner on that track with someone on their inside.
People always online seem to be saying on the inside you late brake. For me I do the opposite. When I have overlap on the inside I brake earlier so that I am not threshold braking out of control cutting a guy off. In long hard brake zones I release the brake to get position a little and establish my right to the inside.
Seaside last turn is a good example. I overtake quite a few folks there by getting side by side Before turn in but ensuring my speed is controlled so that I don’t run wide.
In closing I’d say your move was dodgy but that particular time you managed not to divebomb or get penalized so fair play. Sven clearly has not candy coated his opinion and having just read that he has a point also.

 

[Mr616]

Nonsense. Watch the clips of Ricciardo (especially the 2017 move on Kimi at 1:22). How many times does he hang someone out to dry coming into the left-hander part of the chicane? Why, because he has track position. If he wants to run his opponents out wide, leaving them with nowhere to go (and have to slow down lest they run off the track), he's entitled to do exactly that... and thats exactly what I did; I didn't need to leave a cars width on exit, I made the pass stick, he (or she?) wasn't alongside me (by what anyone would reasonably consider alongside), so I made sure to use every last bit of the track I could on exit and hang them out to dry too, exactly as I'm tactically allowed.

View attachment 763019

Oh, look. There's me not at (or thereabouts) the apex. There's me not having made a clean pass under braking, and ahead of the other car. There's me, being ahead, not entitled to take any god-damn line I want out of the corner, even if that means hanging him out to dry.

If we were side-by-side, rubbing door mirrors, I'd completely and utterly agree with you about not leaving room on exit. However, we weren't side by side, I had track position. Instead of accepting I'd made the pass and got track position he decided to turn into me, bouncing himself out wider and losing grip, rather than lifting slightly and tucking into my slipstream for the drag up to the start/finish straight (where the Ford would have ate me for breakfast, lunch and dinner. All day. Every day!)

Is Gran Turismo Sport a racing "simulator" or some namby-pamby daycare?

If you raced yourself in real time, both of you would be on here blaming the other.

The problem you have on track is your attitude. Show respect

 

[Suntek]

Not sure what's that fuss here, this was a barge pass clear as a day, we see it on every race. The other guy made a mistake too of taking sharp turn on the inside, but you cannot close the door and take over the line without clearing the pass.
If there is a contact, the pass isn't cleared (thus the name).

 

[kilesa4568]

Block passes are kinda aggressive. As the front car starts his turn in, he finds another car level from a 2 tenths lunge who's out braked themselves, judging by how far they missed the apex. Going for a pass with your eyes wide open hoping the other guys eyes are open too is risky and a little unnecessary, with the straight coming after that corner.

The whole point of the thread. Why risk it if you don't need to?

 

[azrilnazli]

blocking at the suzuka straight.... please stop doing that

 

[Suntek]

blocking at any straight.... please stop doing that

Fixed that for you

 

[Balwerk]

To me there's clear crystal between being aggressive, being d*ck, and being stupid. As long as you know where you going, you know
consequences (out of track if fail or worse SR down and get penalty), and know the rewards (can move 1 or 2 position) then you have the responsibility for doing that, if you doesn't know where you will going or you feeling off pace even bad you nervous then hold yourself wait till you can do some clear pass or aggressive pass again.

Mostly crash from aggressive pass/move happen cause "oh I think I can do it" or "I have seen it on real races I want replicate it" but they wrong it just will being big crash if not in right calculation.

Here's example from me as aggressive driver.

​

First one I think "oh he little bit out" so I push little more turn out my car going straight out and hit him, result 5 seconds penalty to me.

​

On second video, I already calculated where I going when I will brake and how much if that really need I push he so he still on track but I get advantage. Result system read it clean and I get clean races tag.

In today I still doing some aggressive driving but more shifting into forsake of pass into only for chasing, with current penalty system not worth do some aggressive pass.

 

[DJShadesUK]

I'm utterly astounded at the, quite frankly, bizarre attitude to racing exhibited by some on this forum (NOT pointing the finger at any one person or group). If you're not making a nuisance of yourself by haranguing the person in front, piling on the pressure, and taking any opportunity that presents itself (well, within reason I suppose, there are some places that are unpassable safely without the person in front making a catastrophic error), then you're not really racing.

by the time he hit his turn in, you'd only just finished braking

It matters not one little bit where I finish braking as long as I've left enough room to make the corner - I did - without shooting off the track on exit - I didn't.

He had almost no time to react to a car he knew was beside him but was still unsighted.

Not. My. Problem. Knowing that I'm there makes the lack of skill even worse! There is a reason we're given magical "reflective" things to give us situational awareness. If I'm in a mirror, then I get bigger in the mirror, then I momentarily disappear, guess where I'm likely to be?!? Clue: Its not going to be the dark side of the Moon.

Trying to justify it with an example of Ricciardo's amazing passes, who is probably the best driver in F1 on the brakes doesn't work here either. This is about sport mode where the standard is a little bit lower. Unless you're comparing yourself to him?

No, I'm not comparing myself to Ricciardo, but the principle of the manoeuvre is exactly the same no matter who is driving. However, I'm really glad you've brought him up again as I've found a far better view of his 2017 Monza pass on Kimi.

1. DR comes from over 2 car lengths behind at the start of the manoeuvre.
2. In part due to the nature of making a move up the inside (being off the optimal line), and in part due to KR squeezing even more (hoping to make DR abort the attempt), DR's angle into the corner was very shallow. Now I wonder what that could possibly mean for DR's exit angle? Its a mystery!
   
3. Mid corner DR is "only" half a car length in front of KR, yet KR realises he's "lost" the corner, so...
4. Kimi, due to DR's shallow entry angle, and having lost track position, even by just half a car length, opens up his steering to accommodate Ricciardos wider exit angle (Oh, wait, its not a mystery after all!).
   
5. DR, taking further advantage (of KR not turning in on him... how nice of KR!), uses all of the track available to him and unequivocally slams the door shut, forcing KR to anchor up even further and then slowly turn in behind.

That is how you show someone who's boss (well, for that corner on that lap at least ). But according to some of the absolute codswollop in some posts above Ricciardo should have either not attempted the move or, being only half a car length in front at the apex should have left a cars width on exit and shouldn't have used all the track to block Kimi. So, who's going to jump on Ricciardo's Twitter and tell him he's doing it wrong? Here, I'll even help whoever wants to do it: Ricciardo's Twitter account.

There are just two differences between my move and Ricciardo's:

1. I didn't come from as far back as Ricciardo, making a move much more likely. (Incidentally, the moment I pulled out should have given the GT driver his/her first clue as to what was about to happen; this goes back to, as I've previously mentioned, situational awareness).
2. I was further past the GT than Ricciardo was on Kimi (at the point the GT turned in on me). Having lost track position the GT driver should have followed my line, wherever I chose to go, to avoid contact... like Kimi did with Ricciardo. If I wanted to be an arsehole I could have run on much deeper and turned at the absolute last second, but I didn't as that not only would have killed the GTs momentum stone dead but my own too, allowing others behind us to catch up and the Porsche ahead to get further away.

I'd somewhat understand if I had of completely overcooked things and shot off the track beyond the kerb (maybe taking the GT with me... although I'm not sure that would have happened given the GT was, for all intents and purposes, effectively "behind" me; I'd have had to be actively pointing my front wheels to the right to completely take him/her off too!). I'd also agree that I was bit of an arse if the GT was right beside me and I ran him/her out wide off the track on exit (not altogether unheard of in BTCC ), but I didn't do that either. The only real difference between the Ricciardo move and my move (beyond one going into a right>left chicane and the other going into a 90° left-hander) is the person Ricciardo was passing had the situational awareness and skill not to make contact (and lose more time than absolutely necessary).

Trying to create safe passes with the minimum amount of risk sees me get good results

Sounds "fun", but I don't want good results, I want the best results (for my own ability... I'm no alien ).

a nod of respect from other drivers who appreciate it when I refuse the quarter and half chances. Usually getting the same treatment back too.

I'd much rather get respect for a well crafted, if cheeky, unexpected pass and also by yielding, where necessary, and giving racing room to those who manage to pull of similarly well crafted moves on me. To me that is racing, not some half-hearted, limp-wristed, doffing-of-the-cap while muttering "no, after you, sir". Some of the best races I've had have been the most aggressive ones, with constant overtakes and re-overtakes, piling on the pressure with every position swap, forcing mistakes and carving out opportunities wherever possible. Granted, its not the fastest way around a track, but when you find a few people who really know how to race (sadly not as often as I'd like!) it sure is a hell of a lot of fun.

Where stepping on toes gets you a hard smack in the mouth.

Unless someone has the ability to do a Lawnmower Man and zap him or herself down my fibre line then thats a bizarre image to conjure.

You're only that much ahead because you did not intent to leave any room.

You're absolutely right, I didn't intend on leaving him/her any room... to come back at me. I fully intended to decisively inconvenience him as much as possible and hamper his run on me - in the OP Ford GT - up to the start/finish straight. Funny thing; tactically hindering your opponent is - shock, horror - all part of racing (unless someone assumes that to include weaving. If you weave, you're an out and out arse). Just what do you think Ricciardo was doing to Kimi, by going out as wide as he could, into the second part of the chicane in the video above?!? As it happened the GT's error, turning in on me, inconvenienced him far more than if he had of followed my line and just slotted in behind me and used the superior power of the GT to rocket past me up to/on the start finish straight.

You were carrying too much speed into the corner to go side by side,

.
What are you talking about? I'm sat here now, looking at a freeze frame of the replay from the Fords bumper cam, at the exact point of the Ford turning in on me, at round about the apex, and it makes contact behind my rear wheel. At that point track position is clearly mine and he/she should have opened up their steering to stay wide of my line.

yet not enough to clear him completely and make the corner stick

You don't need to clear someone completely to make a corner stick, as proved by the Ricciardo video above (or is Ricciardo doing it wrong, again?). Then there is the fact that I didn't even put a single wheel beyond the kerb or lose too much momentum (and thus didn't let the Porsche in front to get too far ahead despite my heavily compromised exit angle). Thats the very definition of making a corner stick!

Ergo you could not make that pass like that

No, what I think you mean is you could not make a pass like that.

It's a failed dive, close to a dive bomb. You are making the pass, it's your responsibility to either clear him or leave room.

So are you going to tell Ricciardo that he should have completely cleared Kimi and left him room? Well, are you? (Again, I've linked to DRs Twitter. I look forward to seeing you mention him in a Tweet telling him his move was wrong because someone on Gran Turismo knows better).

It was an aggressive pass

And? What do you want, an online room full of David Coulthards? (No disrespect to DC, I've met him a number of times and he's a really nice bloke. But look at all those Championships he won by being nice bloke and not aggressive. Oh, wait...).

I'm supporting PD in deducting SR from both players in these kind of incidents.

Guess what? Neither of us got a penalty or SR reduction for the incident. Racing incident.

It's a no contact racing simulator

Thats odd. Similar to what I've just mentioned, there has been plenty of times, when I've been inches off someones bumper, and they've unexpectedly lifted slightly for whatever reason and we've made contact: No penalty or SR drop. There's also been plenty of times when I've got someone on the undercut or been a bit slow out of a corner and ended up "trading paint" (with no malicious pushing or shoving, but still contact). Again, no penalty or SR drop. So obviously some contact is allowed which puts a rather large gaping hole in your no contact racing simulator theory.

DJ In most bits I have read about etiquette the overtaking driver is responsible for completing the overtake without contact.

How many times do I 🤬 need to say this; I am not responsible for someone turning in on me. If the GT hadn't of turned in there would have been no contact. NOT my responsibility. In very similar circumstances, in the video, did Kimi turn in on Ricciardo? NO. But I'm the one who got it wrong. Okay buddy

Your overlap there of front axle past his driver seat was absolutely at the latest possible moment and you are off the normal racing Line to boot.

1) Front axle? Drivers seat? The point of contact for his bumper was behind my rear wheel, for all intents and purposes I was effectively past him/her, and 2) Not quite sure how I'd achieve a late braking lunge up the inside without being off the racing line? That kinda goes with the territory. If thats a bone of contention then I'm sorry but you really need to brush up on your racecraft.

You were setting up for a textbook dive bomb

No, not in the slightest.

which would be you on inside threshold braking unable to get the overlap

Unable to get the overlap? His front bumper, behind my rear wheel. What part of those two things is not getting through?

but since you are threshold braking you are unable to get out of his line and punt him off.

His line? Seriously? Seriously? His front bumper, behind my rear wheel. I really did an amazing job of punting someone "off" who was effectively behind me and never left the track. My "textbook dive bomb" punting skills are obviously FIRE! No, wait, the opposite of that.

In your defense people online seem to refer to any move under braking as a dive bomb which is also wrong.

Finally, something upon which we can agree. However their ignorance, lack of situational awareness and skill (to know what to do when it happens) isn't going to stop me from going for an undefended opportunity that someone could have mailed me an invitation for. As I've said countless times already; if the guy had lifted slightly, shadowed my line and tucked in behind me he would have absolutely smoked me in the OP GT on the run up to the start/finish straight. In fact, I dare say I'd have been choking on his dust from his/her GT before the start/finish line was even visible!

I wouldn’t do what you did there, but you did make it

Which oddly renders most of what you said moot. I did make it, and as its one of my favourite (unexpected) overtaking opportunities (nobody ever expects it, no-one ever defends it) I'll continue to "make it".

Only a fool would not concede that corner on that track with someone on their inside.

Only a fool would not brake heavily in a straight line, leaving me to do my own thing, and set themselves up for the undercut as I go deep on the exit and have to wait longer to get back on the power.

When I have overlap on the inside I brake earlier so that I am not threshold braking out of control cutting a guy off.

You do realise that "cutting a guy off" or "shutting the door" is an absolutely valid tactic in the world of motorsport, right? Right?

that particular time you managed not to divebomb

I didn't "managed not to divebomb", not that particular time, or any other time. I don't divebomb. End of story. (Well, I used to but only as an act of red-mist-revenge for some arse blatantly punting me off the track. And by blatantly I mean absolutely, unmistakably, blatantly. )

or get penalized

You mean exactly like I wouldn't have got penalised had it been a real race on the real track.

this was a barge pass clear as a day

Sure pal

I'm doing a really great job of barging someone I've essentially passed there, aren't I?. Once again, for the benefit of all doubt: The point of contact for the GTs front bumper was behind my rear wheel. One frame before contact:

but you cannot close the door and take over the line without clearing the pass.

At this point, which in almost any racing series would be considered "past", I'm entitled to take any line I want. If that means taking a wider line and running someone out to where they have to make a decision to back out or go off then that is absolutely my prerogative. If I wanted to be a massive arse I could have taken the Green line forcing my opponent to take (or at least should take) the Red line:

Again, look what Ricciardo did to Kimi and tell me he was wrong.

 

[_ApexPredator]

So are these long-winded posts supposed to be in support of or a counter-argument to the point of this thread? I really don't understand.
All I can see is a lot of bold font and some aggro driving

 

[DJShadesUK]

So are these long-winded posts supposed to be in support of or a counter-argument to the point of this thread? I really don't understand.
All I can see is a lot of bold font and some aggro driving

Constructive input.

What is so hard to understand?...

 

[_ApexPredator]

What is so hard to understand?...

The thrust of your points, but carry on.

 

[DJShadesUK]

The thrust of your points, but carry on.

I'll do more pictures, in crayon, just for you next time then.

 

[Mr616]

You do realise that "cutting a guy off" or "shutting the door" is an absolutely valid tactic in the world of motorsport, right? Right?

We will hopefully meet on track, and I will apply your advise when/if overtaking you.

I know what is allowed in "real" racing but I don't take that attitude to sport mode, but I will if I see you, and see what response you give.

I did make it, and as its one of my favourite (unexpected) overtaking opportunities (nobody ever expects it, no-one ever defends it) I'll continue to "make it".

You said the other player had lack of awareness. If that was the case, you wouldn't have "made it", he would've turned into you and you'd be here crying about that I bet.

The reason nobody defends entering that corner is because it's not an overtaking corner. If your opponent was as aggressive as you, you both wouldn't have made it.

You are racing with strangers online. You are not in a league where players know each other. In real life championships (that you love to quote) drivers are racing the same opposition and understand each others driving traits. You cannot apply this to online match-made races.