AI changed in the 1.07 update?

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by Johnnypenso, May 16, 2014.

?

Have you noticed the AI being faster and more aggressive since the 1.07 update?

Poll closed May 23, 2014.
  1. Yes

    21.5%
  2. No

    25.9%
  3. Unsure

    52.5%
  1. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    We have some reports of changes to AI behaviour and speed after the 1.07 update. It's very hard to quantify these things so before I put it in the Update 1.07 Undocumented Changes Thread as an official undocumented change, I'd like a little wider feedback from the community. Those that are intimately familiar with the AI and raced them close to the last update would be most familiar with their speed and behaviour, and it's those people I'd like to hear from the most.

    If you do some testing, please post a short summary of your test conditions and findings.

    @Tenacious D this is where you can shine:cheers:

    NOTE: This thread is not for discussing whether the AI in GT sucks or needs to be improved further or is the worst thing in the world since Justin Beaver decided he was a badass. Confine your responses to improvements, yes or no, to the AI since the 1.07 update please.

    If you wish to complain about the AI go to one of these or another appropriate thread:
    Analysing the AI behaviour and performance in GT6
    The GT6 Epic Whining and Crying Thread
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
  2. starcarper

    starcarper

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    I've noticed that field sizes have changed in both IB and IA races.

    IB from 12 to 11 and IA from 16 to 15. They probably have done this to make changes to something. Don't know if it's AI as I have not really studied it but hopefully it is.
     
  3. TurismoBad

    TurismoBad

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    I have a replay of BMW One make race from March - the AI lap times are the same. Will test some others and post findings later.
     
  4. Fanapryde

    Fanapryde

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    Well, I think I'm pretty familiar with AI, since I race the Nürburg 24' several times almost every day.
    I 'm keeping a list with the fastest laptimes for every car I own, even cars with a lot less PP than the 650 allowed. Even with these slower cars, it was possible to win, due to behaviour of AI:
    Until 1.07 AI was like it always was: slow in corners, braking early and braking at places were no braking was necessary, letting you pass, waiting if you were to far behind (to a certain point), always following their ideal line etc...


    Since 1.07 I noticed totally different behaviour:
    Depending on the 'set' of AI you get to race, at least 4 - 5 of them are faster, driving better, not always follow their ideal line, try to keep you from passing them, pushing you off the track, slam into your car.
    The also take more risks I guess, because each race I see a few leaving the track, spin, hitting crash barriers and fighting each other.

    Before 1.07 you could (with a competitieve car) more or less cruise the second lap to save fuel and tires, in order to set a quick last lap.
    Now you can't permit yourself to do that, because AI does not give up like before, they keep pushing, at least the fastest ones.
    It now takes the faster AI cars (it differs each race - also depending on the car you use yourself) 20 to 90 seconds less to complete the 24' race

    Another thing I noticed: when pitting, you always left the pits in the same position as you entered them (not counting the non-pitting cars). At first I thought that the amount of fuel made a difference, but no, you always had to wait until the tires were changed.

    In the five races I did after 1.07, three times I lost 2 or 3 places during the pitstop (also not counting the non-pitting cars)

    So yes, AI seems to have undergone some changes i.m.o.

    I have not tested in other races than said Nürburg 24'
     
  5. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    Excellent feedback, thank you.:tup:
     
  6. chzsln485

    chzsln485

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    I did the Grand Valley round of the 600PP Touring Car Championship or whatever it's called in iA last night. The AI seemed to bunch up into groups far more closely than before, and although there were still some large gaps, I found a pack of about four or five AI cars battling quite closely together.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
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  7. Lewis_Hamilton_

    Lewis_Hamilton_

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    Maybe it's not the best method of testing, but I frequently grind for credits in the SSRX Like The Wind event and play with/analyse the AI. I've also re-raced a few other iA races such as the Dream Car championship. The other reason I often use the LTW event is because it should be by far the easiest task for the AI to deal with and it has extremely consistent results.

    I have noticed no difference at all in the new update, still all of the same problems (driving through cracks in space and time, letting off the throttle when within 20ft of any other car, random swerving, inability to pass a much slower car on a 5 lane wide road, rubber banding, lap times, general behaviour, racing lines, etc) that have been there from the start.
     
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  8. Haitauer

    Haitauer

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    As you said SSRX is more of a top speed contest. But it is possible that they havent actually changed the ai - rather just tweaked the difficulty level of some races. still hoping for the former..
     
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  9. 88GTA

    88GTA Premium

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    I was testing the Tom's Castrol Supra '01 yesterday afternoon in the IA GT500 series at Fuji F (5 laps, 650pp restriction).

    I was on sports soft tires with just an oil change (576pp, no tuning) while the field had racing hard and I couldn't get better than 10th place. Normally I win this race by 15-20 seconds in similar untuned cars.

    Starting the 3rd lap at turn 1 off the long front straight, I broke way too late and was outside, almost in the grass. The car behind me (Lexus GT500 car) did not brake early and wait for me as usual, he drove full throttle on the inside and passed me cleanly. :tup:

    I've never had the AI pass me like that in GT6.

    The only other AI races I've done since 1.07 install were Red Bull grinds at Silverstone but AI in those seem identical to before.
     
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  10. Haitauer

    Haitauer

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    maybe the improved AI of GT6 is still not "I" enough to handle Red Bulls.. :lol:

    good news on the GT500 though :tup:
     
  11. TurismoBad

    TurismoBad

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    Did the 10 laps of Suzuka - compared AI lap times with replay from December and they were identical.

    Compare with old replays of the races otherwise your findings hold little value and could be simple placebo.

    Nurb 24' have rain appearing in different moments and it last for different amounts of time - you guys are taking that into account I assume ?

    I wish there was a change but so far I'm not seeing it anywhere - it's all the same.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
  12. DeifieD

    DeifieD

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    I second, and confirm the observations from the 24 minute Nurburgring race. Good job @Fanapryde
     
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  13. MustangManiac

    MustangManiac Premium

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    Early on in this game it was not uncommon for the ai to perform a pit maneuver on you, there was plenty of talk about it here on the planet. At some point this seemed to stop, I didn't know if it was an update or just different ai further into the career mode that caused this. Anyway, I was having fun with the new Beemer VGT so I set up a 5 lap race in arcade, pro ai, level 10 aggression at the Nurb GP/F track. The ai was banging on my bumper at nearly every corner and finally at Dunlop I got turned. They did seem to slow some later, but not enough for me to catch the leader, and that little beemer is a pretty quick car. I know, one car, one race and one track, but that is all I did last night other than the TT to get the car. They did seem a bit faster and more aggressive, more like they were earlier in the game to me.
     
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  14. diegorborges

    diegorborges

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    Hmmm I've raced 2 times early today... typical races I do: The Route 246 Race at IB (japanese tour) and the Willow Springs 10 laps on S class...

    I lose both.

    With cars that I've used to win them. (LF-A @ Tokyo and my 1200km fully tuned E92 M3 @ Willow)

    It looks like the "rabbits" doesn't slow down on the last lap anymore... I've noticed that at Tokyo because I've made a mistake on the half of the last lap, the Ai passed me (it was a Tommykaira ZZII) and I couldn't recover in time. In 1.06 I would be able to recover.

    At Willow, their pit stop strategy may have changed or something. I'm used to pit at lap 5, then the "rabbit" AIs, usually FXX and Huayra pit on lap 7, then its almost easy win. It was not the case.

    More investigation is needed, but something really seems changed. They still are slow than us on the corners (I usually do the last corner at Willow @ 170-175kmh and the AI does it at 150), but at least they doesn't seem to run a different pace on the last laps to let us win.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
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  15. micantony

    micantony

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    My observations on the AI has always been that i felt Boost was engaged in the races. In conjuction with this, the leading cars would slow way down to allow you to catch up if you fell too far behind.

    What i have felt in 1.07 is that maybe the boost got turned down to low. AND, the AI cars also have boost on you once you pass them now (something i never felt like they did before). This is just the simplistic viewpoint I have to explain what occurs in these races. Not sure if their behavior has altered much, but the boost levels seem to have changed in 1.07 causing their different behavior.

    They still brake check you coming out of corners and if you are next to them and do all kinds of silly things it seems to me.
     
  16. GTP_CargoRatt

    GTP_CargoRatt

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    I have a daily routine in which I go through in career mode. I drive the same races in Novice, National B, National A, International B, International A, and the Super class with the same cars for each. I do this every day without fail so I know the AI characteristics very, very well. I can tell you without doubt, from my experience, that the AI have not changed one bit. Same brake checking, same laying down around corners, same waiting for you to catch up, even if you fall back behind in the race after being up in first, same everything....nothing has changed at all. There, that's my input and its coming from someone that does these same races with the same car every day.
     
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  17. diegorborges

    diegorborges

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    Do you use stock or tuned cars? Which are the cars and PP you use? Just curious. :)

    People are confirming changes in the Nurburging 24mins, which now can't be won easily with an underpowered car.
     
  18. super_gt

    super_gt

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    I race most of the time offline and I don't feel difference.
     
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  19. Fanapryde

    Fanapryde

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    I should check on that again, but I am pretty sure the rain appears each race at the same time, for the same period and the same amount (% wet). It is just when driving at a different pace (being on a different spot on the circuit at a different time) it may look the way you mean ?
     
  20. diegorborges

    diegorborges

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    I think we can do some testing... We had very trustable results in the other AI thread. It was interesting.

    *just because you win every race doesn't mean that nothing has changed. :)
     
  21. kolio

    kolio

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    All I have done is the redbull races, all I know, is they slow down a lot when you get door to door with them(not touching). Not very competitive at all!

    It was the exact same in 1.06. Maybe they have only changed them for certain races.
     
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  22. Lewis_Hamilton_

    Lewis_Hamilton_

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    I'll do some more testing later on, but I'm of the opinion that nothing has changed. None of the races I've done are different anyhow.

    If anything, and unrelated to this topic, sorry, is that sometimes the handling in chase cam feels horrible now. Though I cycle through all 4 views often, I prefer to use chase cam online so that I can see the other drivers and what they're doing better. Last night though, I had to keep changing to the roof cam. In chase cam there just seemed to be more under and oversteer, as if the front wheels were turning harder or there was a little less grip, then back in roof cam everything seemed fine.

    I did have a couple of moments where my car (well kart at the time) suddenly flew to the right as if I were t-boned by another player, yet I was 3 seconds clear of the next guy, and then later the game froze, so maybe something is going wonky with the game or console.
     
  23. GTP_CargoRatt

    GTP_CargoRatt

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    Never said that I win every race now did I. All the cars I use are stock and are well below the max PP for each event. You can doubt me all you want and that's fine, but I am of the opinion that nothing at all has changed.
     
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  24. diegorborges

    diegorborges

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    @GTP_CargoRatt

    No no, I'm not doubting on you. Sorry if my post give you this idea. :)

    It was just a question... but no worries, I'll do some more testing.
     
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  25. NOSWaster

    NOSWaster

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    Weather in all races in career mode of GT6 is scripted. You can check by looking at the "overall time" clock in the top right and compare it to when the weather changes. It's always the same.
     
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  26. AleksandarSRB

    AleksandarSRB

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    I raced today a lot offline and AI is same. I drove Nur24h with Lancer Evo X rally car and win, without pit stop, with more that 2 minutes and many other races...
     
  27. GTP_CargoRatt

    GTP_CargoRatt

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    No worries, all's good. I just wanted to make it clear that I do this every day and if something had changed, I'm pretty sure I would have noticed it. Like I said, others can of course form their own opinions and that's fine, but mine is pretty concrete as far as I'm concerned. Some races I win, some I don't and that is why I do them every day, to further develop my skill level. I mean, what fun would it be if you just used an over powered car on racing tires and stomped the AI everytime....plus it wouldn't be very beneficial as far as developing one's skill set, even if it is against brainless AI. :lol:
     
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  28. TurismoBad

    TurismoBad

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    My bad then. I could swear it was different when I did the Rain Masters on the Ring last time.

    Anyway I did more testing

    These are again backed with old replays - cold data, zero guessing.

    Old replay of Dream Car Champ. on Nurb 24H

    VS

    Same in 1.07

    Used the same car for me on same tires and all AI cars were faster

    LMR V12 - 1st spot, no overtaking in both races

    8:36 VS 8:29 1st lap

    The last place Mazda (same car) 9:51 VS 9:38
     
  29. DeifieD

    DeifieD

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    @GTP_CargoRatt for what it's worth; I do the 24 minute Nurburgring race every time I play in my Peugeot 106. Prior to 1.07 I have never seen the AI crash at the pit exit of Nordschleife, and I had no issues winning that race every time, usually by 15-30 seconds, sometimes more. Since 1.07 it's been winning by less than a second up to 6 seconds, or losing. I'm usually in 1st by the 1:30.000 mark of lap 2 and then I build my lead, however since 1.07, the AI erases that lead fairly quickly. I have definitely watched the AI behave differently since 1.07, the AI is involved in more accidents and there are some fights between the AI. I think the tire model might have changed a little bit (RS in wet conditions specifically) but my lap times remain almost identical at 9:15.000's for 1st and 3rd lap and 9:45.000's for the second. I just wanted to add some more of my opinion or insight to this discussion...
     
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  30. GTP_CargoRatt

    GTP_CargoRatt

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    And you are certainly entitled to form your opinion based on your experiences, fair enough. :tup:
     
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