AI slow down to let you win.

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by Alss, Dec 9, 2013.

  1. HKS racer

    HKS racer (Banned)

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    Yeah and Berlusconi is not a corruptor it's all left democratics fault and red robes. YAWN.
     
  2. Aria

    Aria

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    It would be awesome if there were standing starts and you could RACE with every car right from the beginning. Now you "fight" with one.

    (AUP Violation Removed)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2013
  3. RC45

    RC45 (Banned)

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    You are pretty funny. No really - I am confident I have forgotten more about motorsport in my life than you have ever known.

    But the topic is Gran Turismo 6 AI.

    Let us approach this logically shall we.

    In 4 lap races with you starting in 14th place 40 seconds BEHIND the leader with 1 minute 30s lap, how would YOU propose the game give you a chance of ever winning?

    Either they need to allow you to use a car that is 50mph faster than 1st lace car, or the game MUST allow you to catch up within 4 laps so that you can start dicing with the leader.

    What is YOUR suggestion?

    The game does NOT have standing starts in its current form, so based on what the game DOES have, how else would you propose the game allow you a chance of winning?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2013
  4. Tier 2 Racing

    Tier 2 Racing

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    That's the weird part. All the Kart races are a standing start. The GT300/500 and GT3 series championships are proper double file rolling starts (all cars go on green light).

    But anyway......
     
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  5. RC45

    RC45 (Banned)

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    *shrug* - I enjoy the game for the escape it is. Could the existing game be improved on? Sure, but I am not so keen on it just becoming yet another formulaic racing game.

    They are all the bloody same. Same formula, some recipe and same outcome.

    I like that Forza is different from Gran Turismo is different from all the rest etc.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2013
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  6. HKS racer

    HKS racer (Banned)

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    Standing start.
    Again, nobody asked PD to use the chase the rabbit scheme ALL THE TIME. And it's not like you can't change it either.
     
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  7. Pilitev

    Pilitev

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    Are the standing starts possible without graphical issues?
     
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  8. Aria

    Aria

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    I'm a big GT fan and I own every Gran Turismo game so it's a little bit hard just say good bye for this series.

    This is :censored: and you know it. I doesn't matter if they never claimed that. People really THINK that GT is serious racing game and they want to race, not chase rabbits.

    Your excuse sounds like PD employee explaining their :censored: product.

    GT is losing fans and that is a major problem.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2013
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  9. Rikaro

    Rikaro

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    The rubber banding is indeed very strong. It's very noticeable when you're doing the gtr vs gtr at silverstone and also the vette in willowsprings
     
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  10. sumbrownkid

    sumbrownkid

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    Tour of Japan, Tokyo R246.

    That ZZII by far gave me the best race so far in this game. Granted, I was using the GT-R R-tune and it is no slouch, but that ZZII made me look like a GT-E car being passed by an Audi R18 or Toyota TS030.
     
  11. RC45

    RC45 (Banned)

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    You seem to be doing a great job complaining up a storm :)

    Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Again - GT is NOT one of the racing titles that follow the same formula.

    The box says 'The real driving simulator' - it says unleash your racing passion, doesn't say come join the racing series and play at being a series racing driver.

    The game does not have standing starts. So based on how the game is setup, how else do you propose to catch the leader in 4 laps?

    If the game did use standing starts for 4 lap races and you started in 14th spot then you would still need rubber banding to catch the front runner.

    If you are only 1 or 2 s faster than the leader, 4 laps is too short of a race to catch the leader.
    This is why real life races have QUALIFYING ad are LONGER than 4 laps.

    In your mind GT needs to have qualifying, warm-ups and then standing start races o 20+ laps.

    Please explain where that even somewhat resembles the concept and idea behind the Gran Turismo series?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2013
  12. Aria

    Aria

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    Have you even played Gran Turismo 1? There were qualifyings and standing starts. THAT was the idea behind GT...
     
  13. RC45

    RC45 (Banned)

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    What about 2 and 3 and 4 and 5?

    Seems like the game has become what the guy that created it, wanted it to become.

    If you think you can do a better job, then find yourself some angel investor and create your own vision of the perfect game. :)
     
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  14. Aria

    Aria

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    There were some flying starts in GT2 but most were standing. GT3 has all standing starts. Rolling starts appeared in GT4 if I remember right.

    I don't have to do better job, I'm a consumer.
     
  15. Alss

    Alss

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    Guys all forums have trolls best thing to do is not feed them .

    GT is a great series but if people never spoke up the game would never evolve, all developers get inspiration from there buying market some times they listen and implement some times they don't, but iif nobody ever spoke up when GT5 was released its many many patches would never of happened, same will apply with this installment if we just except the development team will quite rightly think all is great , this is why its important to not follow blindly but to be respectful in voicing our concerns and issues.

    On that note I bid good night fellas.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  16. RC45

    RC45 (Banned)

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    Then vote with you dollars/pesos/yuans and either buy the game to show you agree with PD or do not buy it and show you disagree with PD.

    As far as I recall, in GT3 the AI still allowed you to amazingly catch the leader within 4 laps or so - so there must have still been some kind of rubber band built in back then as well.

    The bottom line is that without qualifying and more laps to run you need some sort of rubber band to let you get to the front in such a short time.
     
  17. RC45

    RC45 (Banned)

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    So anyone that doesn't run around agreeing with your opinion is a troll? Way to be respectful 'buddy'.

    The fact is that the rubber band AI is a logical function of any driving game that has short races without qualifying.
     
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  18. Aria

    Aria

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    11:40 -->
    This is what I want to see in GT. I think we all want.
     
  19. lalaurentide

    lalaurentide

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    Have you played online? Have you tried a karting event in the carerr? Standing starts ARE in the game.

    That said, we could easily catch the the leader within 3 laps if he didn't bolt the first half of the first lap at speeds his car cannot achieve. The AI in its current state is programmed to go a lot faster than possible and that's why opponents build early 30 seconds gaps.

    On most of the rolling starts there is 10 seconds between the leader and last place, if the programmers didn't disguised races into what is essentially time trials, anyone could catch the leader with how slow the AI is. It follows what is essentially the ingame racing line; they brake too early and take corners a lot slower than possible. PD didn't had to engineer the AI and fake the whole thing.

    The best way to experience how fake the AI is and how it undermines any claim that there is a racing experience to be had in GT6 is to look at the AI behavior during missions. In mission you easily pass the car in front, but once you are ahead it catches you back. Even when you have the same PP and accelerate out of the corner earlier and faster the AI catches up, within seconds, sometimes faster than the speed limit of their car. Well, that AI, is the same AI we get in races, and I feel cheated, because a racing game without racing well that's not a racing game.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013
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  20. JoshDevil

    JoshDevil

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    Its true. I was driving the same speed taking the same lines and was 5 seconds behind in Kart racing 125. Then out of nowhere i see the 2 leaders infront of me taking turns a lot slower than the beginning of the race.
     
  21. JoshDevil

    JoshDevil

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    They do a lot of races ive done are won by .5 or less
     
  22. JoshDevil

    JoshDevil

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    Use the Line option istead of ghost
     
  23. JMR450

    JMR450

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    The AI in GT has never been great. I have played all 6 of them but I have also played every major racing game released for Sony's Playstation platforms. GT has never provided challenging AI, it has always been chase down the leading car while each AI car eventually gets out of your way. Other titles from EA and Codemasters had unpredictable AI that would provide a challenge. Spin and you were done for.

    With GT, it seems that the best way to be challenged is run a much lower PP and chase down the leading car. This IMO is not racing but it is the model used by PD so little chance it will change
     
  24. stb155

    stb155

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    Yes, but only because PD decided for whatever reason that 95% of the races in GT have to follow these rules:

    1. You have to start on last position.
    2. Rolling start, so the leader has already a huge advantage.
    3. The opponents must have a silly spread from slow to fast.
    4. The fastest of them always start in the front while to others act as rolling chicanes for you.
    5. The race must be short enough to ensure you can not win it without using a superior car, shortcutting, using AI cars to lean on, or new in GT6 AI pity-braking till you pass em.

    True, under these FU circumstances you can not have a fair competitive race under equal opponents.

    I will never understand why they not simply changed this awful rules instead of ruining it even more with this awful AI and massive slipstream effect.


    Just started with the PD Championship in Int. B
    Same c... as ever , only 5 laps on rather short tracks, 2 Bugattis up front, 9 F40/Gallardo/Corvettes standing in my way.
    First 3 laps the 2 up front pull slowly away, 4th lap pity mode kicks in and lets me catch up.
    Yes, it is not sure who wins but still the whole thing is FUBAR and has nothing to do with a race.

    Why not a race with just 4 strong opponents me starting in the middle ?

    Hardware is limited, why always 12 cars if half of them only stand in your way in cars 150LP down.
    12 cars should only be in long races like GP/Endurance.

    Career mode is so easy, you have all sorts of aids if you want, silly amount of grip beside the track, generous LP limit, almost free choice of tyres, no damage.

    There is really no need for this pitying AI !

    They just have to stop making impossible races in the first place.
     
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  25. SlipZtrEm

    SlipZtrEm Staff Emeritus

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    A general warning to the entire thread; play the ball, not the man. If you disagree with someone, resorting to insults will result in infractions.

    There's nothing "logical" about having cars run faster times than me for 3 of the 5 laps then suddenly slow down a solid few seconds each sector after that. That's just terrible game design made to pity cater to the slower drivers as opposed to offering any sort of variable difficulty level. GT1 had short races, and even if you skipped qualifying, you'd never see such blatant rubberbanding.
     
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  26. JTB10000

    JTB10000

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    Difficulty slider (Novice, Intermediate, Professional; Aggressiveness: Calm, Medium, Very Aggressive), standing starts, sensible grids...that's all we need. Quite simple really.
     
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  27. watermelon punch

    watermelon punch

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    I think the AIs are borderline dirty at times.
    I swear I've seen them brake check, attempt to spin me out, and lean on my car pushing.
     
  28. Lasercats2

    Lasercats2

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    Yeah that would make more sense if they are trying to market to the casuals
     
  29. avens

    avens

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    In every single game and franchise that isn't the GT series on the PS3 (last 10 years of main GT games), yes.


    About the comparisons and since I brought GTR2 to the table on the other AI thread, the idea was to point out that PD, in a 2013 game and being the biggest seller of them all in the genre*, simply shouldn't be beaten by an old game made by a very small company. PD even has the hardware advantage compared to that, so no time, budget and HW excuses.

    In the correct, applicable comparisons this gets worse, as GTR2 was already surpassed and the big jump in AI in racing games started this year, coming from the direct competition**.

    *discounting the very much arcade Mario Kart and NFS. A different subgenre.
    **do I have to say the name?
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013
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  30. Tornado

    Tornado

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    So it's extremely odd, then, that this is the first game in the series to do anything of the sort.


    Um... not start you 40 seconds behind the leader.