Aliens

[Dotini]

Just to state it for the nth time, I believe, indeed am quite certain, there is a UFO phenomenon - really phenomena - which is a strong part of the basis for any belief in aliens. Many people automatically make the assumption that aliens explain UFOs. But I don't believe in aliens as the best explanation for UFOs. I think there are better hypotheses for UFOs. There's plenty of evidence for an intelligent UFO phenomena, and no proof whatever that aliens are piloting them. For one thing, UFOs are documented to have made sudden stops, turns and accelerations that would crush and kill any kind of creature made of soft tissue. So if UFOs are of alien origin, then they must be inorganic entities akin to drones or robots.

However, I would allow that aliens probably exist somewhere in the universe. Just not here.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Regilious people are practicing their beliefs and they live by these beliefs. Somebody whom beliefs in something but doesn't practice is, isn't practicing a religion.
Belief me () that is what he said.
It seems to be more difficult than I thought.

• Religion
• Belief

To clear it up for you: if I believe in God them by definition I am religious, and I also hold a belief. I don't have to go to church or demonstrably enact my beliefs in any way for both of those things to be true. If I believe that the tooth fairy exists then, due to the tooth fairy not being a deity, I am not religious but I have a belief.

It's also possible for me to do something "religiously" without holding any religious belief... but that's a complication of English that we should leave for some other time

For one thing, UFOs are documented to have made sudden stops, turns and accelerations that would crush and kill any kind of creature made of soft tissue. So if UFOs are of alien origin, then they must be inorganic entities akin to drones or robots.

Or they're constructed in a physical frame of reference that makes sense on their world. What seem like high-g manouvers to us might be well within their own tolerances, if what you say is true.

 

[Dotini]

Or they're constructed in a physical frame of reference that makes sense on their world.

It almost sounds like you're invoking the inter-dimensional hypothesis. I don't know too much about the physics of higher dimensions. Somewhere I read that up to 11 were theorized, but the excess dimensions were rolled up and not available in present reality. I would like to think that the UFO phenomenon could be explained by physics that we could understand, investigate and even learn to use. But I concede that we have much remaining to learn in any number of areas. Since UFOs seem largely non-threatening and so elusive as to resist even determined investigation, I guess it's reasonable for most to focus on more mundane and immediate problems. But sometimes people (like me) who've actually seen the damned things get the urge to find out what they really are up to. I think they've been with us for millennia, and are exerting a slow, subtle affect on how people view their place in the universe. So people are part of the UFO problem, part of the equation. It is our perceptions and consciousness that need to be understood as much as the elusive mystery ships themselves.

 

[TenEightyOne]

It almost sounds like you're invoking the inter-dimensional hypothesis.

I'm not. I'm hypothesising that a life form whose home planet (in our universe and timeline) has a gravity of 20 times ours might find a 4g turn (or 80g to us) not too difficult.

 

[Michael88]

Why are people always expecting UFO's they encounter to be manned? Whatever the motives of interstellar intelligent life may be, if it even exists, it would be illogical not to send unmanned drones to monitor / gather data about the stuff they / it are or is interested in.

I too have seen very strange objects in the night sky (I'm a night sky photographer), -assuming said objects were not natural phenomenas -objects that defied the laws of physics, objects flying maneuvers that would totally kill any living organism that we know. But I would have never thought of those objects to be actual manned crafts.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I guess so but we probably will never know.

We mirrored the same reasoning...what do you mean we'll "probably will never know"?

Bear with me, my first language is Dutch, not English. BTW, isn't contorted; twisted in a violant matter?
Governed/controllled is in my book the same thing. If a government doesn't control their subjects, we have anarchy.

Contorted like many words in the English language have more than one meaning and at times can be used to convey a point or perspective that is either hyperbole or figurative in understanding. In this case it was a figurative way of saying that you are twisting the idea in such a way that it is reflective of the definition above in a sense.

I don't agree. If I didn't use that smiley, I agree with you but I clearly showed that I was joking true a smiley and by putting some space between the two paragraphs.

I'm saying for me I understood it as a joke, yes, it's great for you to confirm that so I don't misconstrue your post but smiley or no smiley I saw it as what it was. That statement to me was always going to be a play on society and how much pop culture rules over us in thought, hence the joke as I understood it.

I don't get it. How do I know what? About the adverse effects of the medication or about Aliens being real or not?
I think you don't understand what I'm trying to say. It has nothing to do with Aliens being real or not but with the fact that an open secret is less scary and even intriguing than when there is absolute proof that Aliens exist and everything they write about Aliens is true as well. I was talking about the mental/psychological impact if something you believe in comes true by real proof.

The point here is to say that science (i.e. physiology and chemistry) along with a trained professional (doctor) have informed you of the side effects of a medicine and you trust that because of their standing. Just like I trust on the same merit, that astronomers, astrophysicist, aero/mech engineers and mathematicians all have the consensus in this field that extraterrestrial life exists in some form. To doubt that or have reservations that it doesn't is to deny the reality of such a probability.

Ofcours it works like that. Proof on youtube and the internet in abundance. Example is the end of the world by the Mayan calender. One person insueted something about the Mayan calender which was then taken out of context and this story snowballed on the internet. Even books were written about this subject. The same with this astronomer. He/she tells something and it will start a life on it's own on the internet. But in this case, there will not be any social upheaval. "But is this news was made public by official media ....." is what I wrote, meaning that it is not the astrononmer but let us say the president of the US whom makes this new public. It can't get more official than that. In this case, there will probably be mass panic all over the world. I never said that the astronomer has the power to make it public.
BTW, I made a mistake to make another paragraph of this "stupid example" of mine. It was actually part of the medication, open secret versus proof part of my post (the mental/psychology thing).

That's not how it happened, people of actual standing said one thing and others on the more fringe side said something else, which was along the lines that since the Mayan's supposedly were so chronologically advanced and their calendars matched well with modern ones, that the ending of the era on 2012 indicated something more ominous. It's not all that different than Y2K and people some of slight merit others not so much, claiming that computers wouldn't be able to relate the change of year and thus cause global melt down.

We know that both weren't all that highly believed, some people did take precautions but most went about their lives and figured as usual that it was similar to someone on a street corner holding a sign to the end is coming. Same with your example, one person shouting wolf, isn't going to get the village (world in this case) to come and believe it so, unless there is multiple people to confirm there is indeed a wolf. If a figure of high standing were to make it public like the POTUS, sure, then you would have a massive driving force, but that person would clearly have a team that informed them thus multiple people confirming it. The President doesn't simply come out and say something and garner automatic belief without backing.

A long time ago, when NASA began exploring the solar system, they commissioned a top-level think-tank, I believe the Brookings Institution, to study the potential effects on US society of NASA discovering the present or past existence of intelligent alien life in the solar system. They did a long study and issued a long report. But the thrust of it was that our society would deteriorate - much like primitive tribal societies did on Earth when advanced European colonists arrived in their formerly isolated lands. The bottom line is that government fears alien discovery would lead to people drinking a lot more, not showing up for work, and not playing taxes.

Exactly, and you don't necessarily need a massive think tank to tell you that, though having one do a major study would make it more believable. This was my original point when I posted a counter argument, people would simply see social norms change so much that they may by and large give up, and easily corrode gov't with in a few days if not more.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Why are people always expecting UFO's they encounter to be manned? Whatever the motives of interstellar intelligent life may be, if it even exists, it would be illogical not to send unmanned drones to monitor / gather data about the stuff they / it are or is interested in.

I too have seen very strange objects in the night sky (I'm a night sky photographer), -assuming said objects were not natural phenomenas -objects that defied the laws of physics, objects flying maneuvers that would totally kill any living organism that we know. But I would have never thought of those objects to be actual manned crafts.

I agree with this and with some of the things people claim they do behind simply 90 degree turns and sudden stops from mach three or whatever. Going from near above ground to high altitudes in a matter of seconds. These physical abilities while great, don't necessarily mean incapable of a being or existence that has become able to tolerate such extremes. Yet I like the drone idea, simply because contact never is made, some of the objects seen seem to be constructs of intelligence but in a form that is pure in energy (from the onlooker) and basically a structure that doesn't look like it could do anything but observe and not actually have occupants flying it.

One incident of this was during the Belgium wave, where the triangular aircraft that was seen, kept sending out smaller red orb objects that seemed to be either observing or collecting something but so small they couldn't possibly have a life-form in them (so we think).

 

[Michael88]

The red orbs is a quite fascinating detail, as we all know there are many UFO sighting reports that differ vastly from each other - but quite a few of them contain that exact detail - a flying craft releasing red glowing orbs that seem to gather data or collect stuff. Even the color is the same. (Though there is one account with blue orbs)

In my opinion, assuming some of those stories are at least partially true, that sounds like highly advanced drone technology. Also, what speaks for unmanned crafts - besides the complete lack of communication attempts - is that we are already developing ways to ''send'' data over long distances with absolutely zero time delay. It does already work on a veeeery small scale. Also we are making huge progresses in AI, and its speeding up. If we find a power source and a way to travel huge distances in a reasonable time span we can build UFO's, with a zero delay data stream. The puzzle is coming together pretty fast, who knows, maybe in 500 years the classical UFO will be completely unimpressive and we will send our own UFO-like drones to gather data?

Anyway, again, - assuming those crafts really do exist - I like to think they're drones sent on a mission a long time ago to map space and to gather information about pretty everything. The most valuable thing in the universe is knowledge.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The red orbs is a quite fascinating detail, as we all know there are many UFO sighting reports that differ vastly from each other - but quite a few of them contain that exact detail - a flying craft releasing red glowing orbs that seem to gather data or collect stuff. Even the color is the same. (Though there is one account with blue orbs)

In my opinion, assuming some of those stories are at least partially true, that sounds like highly advanced drone technology. Also, what speaks for unmanned crafts - besides the complete lack of communication attempts - is that we are already developing ways to ''send'' data over long distances with absolutely zero time delay. It does already work on a veeeery small scale. Also we are making huge progresses in AI, and its speeding up. If we find a power source and a way to travel huge distances in a reasonable time span we can build UFO's, with a zero delay data stream. The puzzle is coming together pretty fast, who knows, maybe in 500 years the classical UFO will be completely unimpressive and we will send our own UFO-like drones to gather data?

Anyway, again, - assuming those crafts really do exist - I like to think they're drones sent on a mission a long time ago to map space and to gather information about pretty everything. The most valuable thing in the universe is knowledge.

I've heard about them being blue too, many times when those are seen alone, they're usually attributed to ball lightning as an explanation. Other times it's harder to do that when the story is about a larger object discharging them and then they fly back into object afterwards. Overall I agree, I think the best explanation with the most logic for what we know, is it being drones.

 

[kikie]

It seems that I was very tired last night. I read my posts again and it is clear that I was confused (no not confused but completely out of it). Now, after a good night sleep, I don't even agree with how I answered some posts (misread and misunderstood them and aswered while people were agreeing with me) and what I said.
I have to be careful what I write this time.

To clear it up for you: if I believe in God them by definition I am religious, and I also hold a belief. I don't have to go to church or demonstrably enact my beliefs in any way for both of those things to be true. If I believe that the tooth fairy exists then, due to the tooth fairy not being a deity, I am not religious but I have a belief.

That's is excactly what I was trying to say and how I see it! You don't have to clear it up. Belief and religion go hand in hand.
Wikipedia (don't know if you can trust the information on wikipedia entirely) talks about religion and practice. Exactly what I was trying to say. You have to practice religion. One can belief something (my aliens example and your tooth fairy example) but if you believe that extraterrestrials are Gods and you believe this to be true, it becomes a religion.
Religious people practice religion in one way or the other. Even if it is having a cross hanging around their neck. Or are not allowed to eat certain food. Religion is always practiced.
A belief can be just that, a belief.

We mirrored the same reasoning...what do you mean we'll "probably will never know"?

What I was trying to say is that our generation will probably be long gone before extraterrestrials come forward or all the classified documents and information will be released and how people are going to react.

That's is excactly what I wanted to say! You don't have to clear it up.I'm saying for me I understood it as a joke, yes, it's great for you to confirm that so I don't misconstrue your post but smiley or no smiley I saw it as what it was. That statement to me was always going to be a play on society and how much pop culture rules over us in thought, hence the joke as I understood it.

Another example that I really didn't understand a word all of you were trying to say. I thought the opposite. Misunderstanding cleared!
Thanks.

That's not how it happened, people of actual standing said one thing and others on the more fringe side said something else, which was along the lines that since the Mayan's supposedly were so chronologically advanced and their calendars matched well with modern ones, that the ending of the era on 2012 indicated something more ominous. It's not all that different than Y2K and people some of slight merit others not so much, claiming that computers wouldn't be able to relate the change of year and thus cause global melt down.

But that is exactly what I said. Or at least trying to say:

Ofcours it works like that. Proof on youtube and the internet in abundance. Example is the end of the world by the Mayan calender. One person insueted something about the Mayan calender which was then taken out of context and this story snowballed on the internet.

I don't know why I used that insuete verb. Is it even a word? I clearly shows how tired I was and messed up big time. *note to myself, don't participate in discussions in the English language, especially late at night just before going to bed.*
What I was trying to say is exactly what you said. "One person insueted (meaning: said something) about the Mayan calender and others (those fringe side) took it out of context and said that the Mayan calender prodicted the end of the world.S o, it seems that we are on the same page after all!
This Mayan calender example was only a general example, just like the afterlife example by another member.

The President doesn't simply come out and say something and garner automatic belief without backing.

Again I explanained myself poorly. What I wanted to say but didn't write it down is that if this astronomer is correct and there is proof that he is correct. Only then the president is going to come out and tell the nation what is going on.

At least that is how it happens in American movies. /end joke


I applaud you. You stay calm au contraire to another GTP member.
Appreciated!

 

[Dotini]

Russia claim first contact with extraterrestrial life - in the form of bacteria on the hull of the ISS.
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/russians-claim-ve-found-first-extraterrestrial-life-under-164508545.html

Turkish university teaching new course on imminent mass intelligent alien contact and the history of alien contact coverups .
https://www.yahoo.com/news/university-class-claims-alien-conspiracy-210555709.html

Note: My belief is that there has never been any intelligent living, biological ET presence or Earth. But I do acknowledge as fact that there is a UFO phenomenon lacking a good explanation for some cases. And in some of these cases, intelligent maneuvering of the UFO seems real. Unknown natural evolution of Earthly lifeforms may account for this, or artificial intelligence in drones, or something else. But not a live ET.

 

[Danoff]

Russia claim first contact with extraterrestrial life - in the form of bacteria on the hull of the ISS.
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/russians-claim-ve-found-first-extraterrestrial-life-under-164508545.html

It's quite a claim. It seems completely possible that the bacteria originated from inside the ISS - especially if ISS is venting anything that has bacteria in it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Russia claim first contact with extraterrestrial life - in the form of bacteria on the hull of the ISS.
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/russians-claim-ve-found-first-extraterrestrial-life-under-164508545.html

Turkish university teaching new course on imminent mass intelligent alien contact and the history of alien contact coverups .
https://www.yahoo.com/news/university-class-claims-alien-conspiracy-210555709.html

Note: My belief is that there has never been any intelligent living, biological ET presence or Earth. But I do acknowledge as fact that there is a UFO phenomenon lacking a good explanation for some cases. And in some of these cases, intelligent maneuvering of the UFO seems real. Unknown natural evolution of Earthly lifeforms may account for this, or artificial intelligence in drones, or something else. But not a live ET.

A note of caution:

Along with the purported alien bacteria, other bacteria thought to have originated on Earth was also found on the swabs. Surviving in the vacuum of space is no easy feat, and intense temperature fluctuations failed to kill the bacteria over the course of three years, which is mighty impressive. It’s unclear exactly how the researchers were able to differentiate between terrestrial bacteria and the alien bacteria that appeared within the same samples.

Given that there's established cross-contamination of the swabs and an entire lack of "alien bacteria" to compare these to... I remain skeptical.

 

[Dotini]

I remain skeptical.

Skepticism is fine. Much better than mockery and ridicule.

If these Russian findings are validated, they will be in line with an old British scientist's (forgot his name) concepts and findings with respect to the theory of panspermia.

 

[Danoff]

Given that there's established cross-contamination of the swabs and an entire lack of "alien bacteria" to compare these to... I remain skeptical.

Apparently it wouldn't be the first time.

And TASS reports that on a previous ISS mission, bacteria accidentally hitched a ride to the station on tablet PCs and other materials. Scientists sent these objects up to see how they would fare in space, and the freeriding organisms managed to infiltrate the outside of the station. They remained there for three years, braving temperatures fluctuating between -150 and 150 degrees Celsius.

 

[Dotini]

Is today the day that US government UFO disclosure begins?

It is extremely rare the NY Times prints an article on UFOs. This one ought to make your socks roll up and down.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html

snippet:
By 2009, Mr. Reid decided that the program had made such extraordinary discoveries that he argued for heightened security to protect it. “Much progress has been made with the identification of several highly sensitive, unconventional aerospace-related findings,” Mr. Reid said in a letter to William Lynn III, a deputy defense secretary at the time, requesting that it be designated a “restricted special access program” limited to a few listed officials.

A 2009 Pentagon briefing summary of the program prepared by its director at the time asserted that “what was considered science fiction is now science fact,” and that the United States was incapable of defending itself against some of the technologies discovered. Mr. Reid’s request for the special designation was denied.

Mr. Elizondo, in his resignation letter of Oct. 4, said there was a need for more serious attention to “the many accounts from the Navy and other services of unusual aerial systems interfering with military weapon platforms and displaying beyond-next-generation capabilities.” He expressed his frustration with the limitations placed on the program, telling Mr. Mattis that “there remains a vital need to ascertain capability and intent of these phenomena for the benefit of the armed forces and the nation.”

Note: According to my research, some of the "military weapon platforms" interfered with have included ICBMs in flight and in silos as well as nuclear weapons in bunkers.
- for a start, http://archive.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/20100928ufo-nuclear0928.html

Edit:
Here is the same basic story as reported by Politico.
It includes a reference to the "Skinwalker Ranch". Please do not research this subject if you don't have a strong stomach or if you scare easily.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/12/16/pentagon-ufo-search-harry-reid-216111

A NY Times article on the Nimitz incident.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/unidentified-flying-object-navy.html

2nd Edit:
The lead story as report by Mysterious Universe
http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2017/12/release-of-ufo-footage-and-report-on-pentagon-ufo-funding/

snippet:
“Presented here is the first official evidence released by the US government that can be rightfully designated as credible, authentic confirmation that unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP) are real.”

That’s how TTSA announced not one but three videos of US military planes encountering unidentified aerial phenomenon. (The first two videos can be seen here). The so-called GIMBAL video was captured by a US Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet using the Raytheon AN/ASQ-228 Advanced Targeting Forward-Looking Infrared (ATFLIR) pod and includes commentary of the pilots being amazed by what they’re seeing and trying to determine what it is. The so-called 2004 Nimitz FLIR1 video is described as “the only official footage captured by a US Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet present at the 2004 Nimitz incident off the coast of San Diego.” Both videos come with detailed commentary and additional data.

---------------

Is the released of the videos by the To The Stars Academy related to The Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program? Well, Luis Elizondo resigned from the program to become one of the principles of TTSA. Does this vindicate Tom deLonge, who has been accused of not coming through on his big promises of big revelations? That remains to be seen.

Whatever the case, December 16, 2017, could some day be remembered as the start of government UFO disclosure.

3rd Edit:


4th Edit:
CNN's report
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/16/politics/pentagon-ufo-project/index.html

 

[Dotini]

The publication by the NY Times that the US government now admits UFOs exist (and provides gun camera footage) has provoked a storm of interest from the US news media and public, although maybe not so much here at GTP. Other countries around the world such as France, Chile, UK, Russia, China and others perhaps already have a more sophisticated outlook than us.

Anyway, below are some links I ran into which provide additional perspective - pro, con and sideways - on the entire issue.

https://www.academia.edu/17018495/100yssOrlandoSarfattiV6 (talk at the DARPA-NASA meeting in 2011,PDF)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Sarfatti

https://anotherslownewsday.wordpress.com/about/science/u-f-o-s/

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2017/12/the-pentagon-ufos-and-shaping-myth/

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/f...program/ar-BBH0hmI?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

 

[Dotini]

Mainstream media is mostly taking this seriously. This story has become "THE most watched and talked about story published at the NY Times in a long time." It is revealed that material has been recovered from one or more of these objects. It is being studied but so far scientists are reportedly unable to recognize the compound.











https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D34QhFVH1c
Sarah Huckabee Sanders evades questions at White House briefing

 

[TheCracker]

How was this 'material' - by which i guess they are referring to these mysterious alloys that have been spoken about, recovered?

Are they inferring that this craft was shot down or crashed?

 

[Dotini]

How was this 'material' - by which i guess they are referring to these mysterious alloys that have been spoken about, recovered?

Are they inferring that this craft was shot down or crashed?

I've been trying to find this out, too. The NY Times reporters don't know, and the AATIP and TTSA folks aren't saying - if they even know. TTSA is planning on releasing more official footage, and the building in which the material is being analyzed is owned by Bigelow Aerospace, which connected to TTSA. So maybe we will learn something from them in the future. But maybe not. #1, the material is probably very highly classified. #2, it may be a false story, a hoax or red herring.

Numerous historical reports dating back to the 40's (Maury Island, 1947) talk about the objects dumping or ejecting some kind of material. Reports of bismuth, magnesium and aluminum are out there, credibility questionable.

There is a video of a UAP ejecting material taken by the Chilean Air Force on YouTube.

 

[Dotini]

The Pentagon (and White House) have so far declined to get involved in the alien question aroused by their announcement of UFO reality over weekend. However, that has not stopped another government organization from releasing what seems like a well-prepared article together references to prior government ET hunts together with a pertinent video on the Fermi paradox.
https://www.space.com/39169-aliens-may-exist-pentagon-ufo-program-chief.html

Here is a short article on Tom DeLonge and his TTSA academy. It includes several interesting videos, one covering Mr Bigelow, and a slightly more lengthy video on prior military UFO secrecy. Of particular interest are the OPREP-3 reports of unknown objects over or near sensitive military bases.
http://www.openminds.tv/tom-delonge-strikes-ufo-gold/41423

Here's an excellent, if slightly over-the-top, blogger's conspiracy theory reducing the whole story to scam and corruption. Must read!
http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/a...s-in-the-pentagon-ufo-agency-story-all-linked

And here's yet another government outlet, NPR reporting.
https://www.npr.org/2017/12/19/571868263/secret-program-at-the-pentagon-spent-million-to-study-ufos

 

[Dotini]

MSM interview with another principle player in TTSA, Christopher Mellon. He's a "retired" spook.


The liberal wing of MSM has played along with this story pretty well, but due to the Harry Reid angle, conservative MSM not so much. Nevertheless, Tucker Carlson of Fox does a fair job of interviewing Commander Fravor.


Excellent video with science popularizer and physics rockstar, Neil deGrasse Tyson. With much laughter and hand gestures, he allows that just because there is an unknown object does not necessarily imply alien life. I agree. He also (humorously?) questions whether there is necessarily any intelligent human life on Earth. Who could disagree with that?


George Knapp interviews Senator Reid. Apparently religious objections within government had something to do with the cancellation of the funding. They did not want to be seen studying evil.
http://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/i-team-exclusive-sen-reid-discusses-ufo-study/883885259

--------------------------------------------------------------

Summary of the whole story so far:

Unknown flying objects are admitted and shown to exist by the government. Our own technology and that of any other country is ruled out. Aliens are not ruled out, but how - in lieu of a "wormhole" or the like - did they get here? The reporters and the people involved in the story adamantly refuse to speculate, preferring to focus on data collection and analysis in the effort to determine how they operate and if they pose a threat.

What other solutions are possible? @TenEightyOne any ideas?

Edit: Add Knapp/Reid interview

 

[TenEightyOne]

What other solutions are possible? @TenEightyOne any ideas?

I took some time to look further at the video and to read the various accounts... and I'm mystified. If the video is as it appears and if the accounts of the pilots are genuine then this is something that is (self-evidently) extremely difficult to explain.

Is the 'mass' a natural phenomenon? Impossible to tell without credible scientific suggestions about what that phenomenon may be. Other-wordly? On balance I'd say likely not, but at the moment this is surely the very definition of unidentified.

 

[Dotini]

Is the 'mass' a natural phenomenon?

Yes.
At least that is my working assumption. I and everybody else should resist and reject that the phenomena are supernatural. That said, the "mass" may not be material and solid, but rather energy - plasma and a bit of dust. This would explain a lot of the problems, starting with the reported glowing aura surrounding the object.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Yes.
At least that is my working assumption. I and everybody else should resist and reject that the phenomena are supernatural. That said, the "mass" may not be material and solid, but rather energy - plasma and a bit of dust. This would explain a lot of the problems, starting with the reported glowing aura around the object.

The next question (and one you've certainly asked many times) is how many of these 'apparitions' are explainable in the same way? Why don't we have more calibrated video evidence of them?

 

[Dotini]

The next question (and one you've certainly asked many times) is how many of these 'apparitions' are explainable in the same way? Why don't we have more calibrated video evidence of them?

In my tiny mind, at this point all of the genuine events may be explainable along these lines.

Currently we are working only with the one or two calibrated videos. TTSA promises to release as many as a total of 38.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I still think the best possibility is drones. From where? Who knows. As to why? Again, who knows. But it doesn't seem to be a natural creation, and seems quite artificial. Especially when other accounts of similar things are taken seriously when analyzing. Such as radar signals, electrical signals, interference, jamming, and on and on. Sure ball lightning could probably do a few of these things, but not all, nor does it look metallic.

It's a hard one, cause I don't think the suggestion of aliens is a good call, when as you've all said it's a conclusion you really can't jump to, even if it is easy and makes the explanation simple. At the end of the day you simply don't know, however, I don't like Tyson's explanation that he and other TV physicists use. The self deprecating idea that we're intelligent, as if that actually is a justification for not being studied. It's irrelevant, just like us who is to say they wouldn't want to study something that is different or hasn't been seen before. People study many things on earth and in the solar system, that is at times boring in and of itself, but teaches thing that wouldn't have been known otherwise. Why wouldn't a group of aliens do the same with Humans?

The argument of lack of evidence is fine, and always will be, but the more subjective and less scientific argument of if or not we're intelligent to another species of extraterrestrial origin, seems as irrelevant as Human's studying sloth or space bears/tardigrade.

 

[Dotini]

Supposedly Mr Elizondo, and others associated with either TTSA or Mr Bigelow himself, stated the UAP ejecta samples analyzed contain isotopic ratios not found on Earth. Even so, there is an argument these materials are not necessarily extraterrestrial, since the matter was synthesized from energy by the UAP, which does not exactly exemplify the characteristics of a material object.


Edit
For those interested in the presidents, people and history of gradual UFO disclosure:

 

[TexRex]

Supposedly Mr Elizondo, and others associated with either TTSA or Mr Bigelow himself, stated the UAP ejecta samples analyzed contain isotopic ratios not found on Earth. Even so, there is an argument these materials are not necessarily extraterrestrial, since the matter was synthesized from energy by the UAP, which does not exactly exemplify the characteristics of a material object.


Calibrated (?) UAP videos released by governments of USA, Chile, Mexico. (Ignore that cover image.)

I think there's something to judging a book by its cover with regards to people. Not when it comes to characteristics an individual has no control over ("He's black so he must be in a gang."), but consider choices someone actively makes and employs regarding their appearance.

Take Elizondo's facial hair: If something in his brain tells him that it looks reasonable or even good, surely there's something going on with his cognitive reasoning. He struck me as an absolute crackpot when I saw clips of an interview with him a few days ago.



Do I think there's something out there? Absolutely! Do I believe anyone who comes forward with "evidence" of something out there? 🤬 no!

Having just said that, I question the origin of some things right here on earth; sea urchins and other frankly disturbing creatures living in the depths, the duckbill platypus, Hunter S. Thompson.