Aliens

  • Thread starter Exorcet
  • 2,385 comments
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Is there extraterrestrial life?

  • Yes, and they are not Earth like creatures (non carbon based)

    Votes: 19 2.5%
  • Yes, and they are not Earth like creatures (carbon based)

    Votes: 25 3.3%
  • Yes, and they are not Earth like creatures (carbon and non carbon based)

    Votes: 82 10.8%
  • Yes, and they are humanoid creatures

    Votes: 39 5.1%
  • Yes, and they are those associated with abductions

    Votes: 19 2.5%
  • Yes, but I don't know what they'd be like

    Votes: 379 49.8%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 151 19.8%
  • No, they only exist in movies

    Votes: 47 6.2%

  • Total voters
    761
I think that there is a whole lot of speculation coming from a quite failable species. I believe there are unexplained phenomena that happen all the time. I also think that there are also a large number of own phenomina that many people are either unaware of, or mistake for something else. Are UFOs real, in once sense or another sure. Governement cover up? Ehhh, maybe. Some sort of mind control nonsense? Probably not. People are fallible, the equipment we make as well. People have pride, ego, and terrible, even manipulatable memories.
Without concrete, verifiable evidence, without those supposed high res pictures and video, we can speculate and assume. Thus the skepticism. And to be honest, at least half or more of the population have no problem believing in made up super natural nonsense. At this point i dont think humanity will fall into post apocalyptic chaos to find out we arent alone.

What fallible species are you talking about?

Why isn't there some government involvement? I ask because there is plenty to suggest otherwise, how sinister the involvement is what becomes very suspect from those claiming.

What mind control "nonsense", see this type of rhetoric is what got me in the first place with baldgye. So let me do my best to explain what I gathered Dotini getting at with that explanation. There are various scientist in the quantum field of study that suggest there is a neurological connection between quantum mechanics/physics and the understanding of how the universe operates and how, one of the most famous people to question and further this was David Bohm. A very well known and respected physicist of the last 100 years, who tried to bridge an understanding of how consciousness and thought worked in unison with the physics, as well as the modern age parallel between the physics and philosophy of it. To a point that other physicist like Jack Sarfatti and Fred Wolf, have suggested that the mind has the ability to do some possibly powerful tangible creating things that many people would on view simply laugh at. But there has been and still is a attempt to make a quantum connection between the mind and matter.

Outside this I question how one gets high res photos of a night time aerial phenomenon, when they one don't expect it, two don't have the equipment to capture it at the ready (no smart phones are not capable) and three are only given such a brief experience they wouldn't have been able to even if points 1 and 2 were fulfilled?

Again I question the use of nonsense, simply because I wonder how traversed you are in said subject, or simply discredit it at face never actually putting in time to have a formulation justifying your discredit.
 
What fallible species are you talking about?

Why isn't there some government involvement? I ask because there is plenty to suggest otherwise, how sinister the involvement is what becomes very suspect from those claiming.

What mind control "nonsense", see this type of rhetoric is what got me in the first place with baldgye. So let me do my best to explain what I gathered Dotini getting at with that explanation. There are various scientist in the quantum field of study that suggest there is a neurological connection between quantum mechanics/physics and the understanding of how the universe operates and how, one of the most famous people to question and further this was David Bohm. A very well known and respected physicist of the last 100 years, who tried to bridge an understanding of how consciousness and thought worked in unison with the physics, as well as the modern age parallel between the physics and philosophy of it. To a point that other physicist like Jack Sarfatti and Fred Wolf, have suggested that the mind has the ability to do some possibly powerful tangible creating things that many people would on view simply laugh at. But there has been and still is a attempt to make a quantum connection between the mind and matter.

Outside this I question how one gets high res photos of a night time aerial phenomenon, when they one don't expect it, two don't have the equipment to capture it at the ready (no smart phones are not capable) and three are only given such a brief experience they wouldn't have been able to even if points 1 and 2 were fulfilled?

Again I question the use of nonsense, simply because I wonder how traversed you are in said subject, or simply discredit it at face never actually putting in time to have a formulation justifying your discredit.
Dogs, clearly the fallible species I am talking about is dogs, cause they care about ufos....
I didnt say there wasnt gov cover up, i said maybe there is, if you dont have proof there is, then that is all you get, maybe, and hearsay is not proof. Its hearsay.
The mind control nonsense is in regards to what Dotini was alluding too a couple of his posts ago. Now, did any of those physicists back up their hypothesis with peer reviewed, repeated tests? If so, then by all means, otherwise, its a nice hypothesis, come back to that when we have tangible proofs. it is absolutely nonsense speculations until then.
 
Dogs, clearly the fallible species I am talking about is dogs, cause they care about ufos....

What?

I didnt say there wasnt gov cover up, i said maybe there is, if you dont have proof there is, then that is all you get, maybe, and hearsay is not proof. Its hearsay.

Nor did I, I talked about government involvement, which there is plenty of proof on.

The mind control nonsense is in regards to what Dotini was alluding too a couple of his posts ago. Now, did any of those physicists back up their hypothesis with peer reviewed, repeated tests? If so, then by all means, otherwise, its a nice hypothesis, come back to that when we have tangible proofs. it is absolutely nonsense speculations until then.

How is it absolute nonsense, you do realize not everything has a peer-review or tangible evidence and tends to start out small. They have plenty of literature on the subject and I have given you names. You can look up what they've written if you're so willing to dismiss them. Again mind control isn't what it is, it's mind and matter and has roots in quantum physics with regards to consciousness. Here I'll do one better so you don't have an excuse to why you couldn't look up the general idea.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?...ciousness&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170215-the-strange-link-between-the-human-mind-and-quantum-physics
http://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/why...consciousness-originates-at-the-quantum-level

Since I like Kaku for m-theory, but also because it explains the situation and demonstrates why this type of theory isn't as black and white in showing as you think it should be.
 
What what. I don't believe you are so dense as to have not known that humans are the fallable species. But if you are, then clearly I meant cats. Cause those things are always speculating about UFOs.
blah blah governement cover up blah
Well good, i guess we both are misconstruing what the other is saying, since my initial response was to Dotini, ill leave it at that.
blah blah mind control blah
While not strictly said, mind control is exactly what I was picking up from dotini, at the very least in the form of changing memories or manipulating what one was hearing or seeing. Hence the whole fallible (cats) thing. We have no proofs of mind control of a super natural type being possible. Absolutely the gov has looked into that. Men Who Stare At Goats was based quite a bit off those experiments. If I remember correctly, they amounted to a funny story and thats about it.
as for Kaku's take on Schrodinger cat, its like the ol if a tree falls routine and not one I necessarily buy. It reeks of a sort of creationism. if nothing exists unless there is something conscious to have seen it, then nothing would exist since you wouldnt have consciousness until it was created, which it couldn't do cause there was nothing conscious to have observed it.
a better example for you to have used would have been the observers effect. We also have machines that can "read" your thoughts and know choices you are going to make before you are even fully aware of the choice. both are fine theories that even make sense with what Dotini was saying. weapons systems shutting down at the thought of aggression and what not. Schrodinger cat on the other hand, doesnt.
 
What what. I don't believe you are so dense as to have not known that humans are the fallable species. But if you are, then clearly I meant cats. Cause those things are always speculating about UFOs.

Not dense, just wondering why having a serious conversation is troubling for you? Also obviously human are fallible the point is what does that have to do with various theroies on UFOs? I could see the point in the case by case study.

Well good, i guess we both are misconstruing what the other is saying, since my initial response was to Dotini, ill leave it at that.

Misconstruing what? I simply said their is government involvement, we know this thus you can't say there isn't one way or another. We also don't have a full grasp of the depth of said involvement. So there could be some cover up or not. If there was though, I'm not sure how you'd expect someone to prove it.

While not strictly said, mind control is exactly what I was picking up from dotini, at the very least in the form of changing memories or manipulating what one was hearing or seeing. Hence the whole fallible (cats) thing. We have no proofs of mind control of a super natural type being possible. Absolutely the gov has looked into that. Men Who Stare At Goats was based quite a bit off those experiments. If I remember correctly, they amounted to a funny story and thats about it.
as for Kaku's take on Schrodinger cat, its like the ol if a tree falls routine and not one I necessarily buy. It reeks of a sort of creationism. if nothing exists unless there is something conscious to have seen it, then nothing would exist since you wouldnt have consciousness until it was created, which it couldn't do cause there was nothing conscious to have observed it.
a better example for you to have used would have been the observers effect. We also have machines that can "read" your thoughts and know choices you are going to make before you are even fully aware of the choice. both are fine theories that even make sense with what Dotini was saying. weapons systems shutting down at the thought of aggression and what not. Schrodinger cat on the other hand, doesnt.

Well that's fine if you're picking that up, but from sources he's used prior to explain this and now, that isn't what he is saying. He is talking again about conscious thought and physics. Stargate Project is what you're talking about, which is talking about psychics and those supposed abilities. I've given you a host of links to show what this is, if you actually want to educate yourself then you have the sources. Project MKUltra was mind control attempts through drugs, and most of those files were destroyed by the CIA so what gains were made are hard to tell.

So because it doesn't make sense to you, it is suspect? Again various links if all you have time to do is watch a limited video on the subject that was provided to give a base line understanding, then I would implore you to study it when you do.
 
Not dense, just wondering why having a serious conversation is troubling for you? Also obviously human are fallible the point is what does that have to do with various theroies on UFOs? I could see the point in the case by case study.
Who said anything about various, I was speaking directly to peoples reported observations to which dotini was trying to junp to a woowoo conclusion. Hell you even liked and responded to my initial post on that in the affirmative. And FWIW, life is way to short to be serious, especially on a video game forum.

Misconstruing what? I simply said their is government involvement, we know this thus you can't say there isn't one way or another. We also don't have a full grasp of the depth of said involvement. So there could be some cover up or not. If there was though, I'm not sure how you'd expect someone to prove it.
To which I didnt deny. Whats being misconstrued is your intent to show involvement when I said cover up, and my arguing against a cover up when you said involvement. None of which is the point as I was initially making the claim of cover up in regards to dotini talking about the gov dribbling out content. See post 2185.
Well that's fine if you're picking that up, but from sources he's used prior to explain this and now, that isn't what he is saying. He is talking again about conscious thought and physics. Stargate Project is what you're talking about, which is talking about psychics and those supposed abilities. I've given you a host of links to show what this is, if you actually want to educate yourself then you have the sources. Project MKUltra was mind control attempts through drugs, and most of those files were destroyed by the CIA so what gains were made are hard to tell.
MKUltra is a pointless example anyway, since i find it unlikely some ufo injected drugs into a witness from some unknown distance to control them. And to be honest, mind control isnt what we would be talking about anyway, rather, manipulation of either memories, or what is being observed.
So because it doesn't make sense to you, it is suspect? Again various links if all you have time to do is watch a limited video on the subject that was provided to give a base line understanding, then I would implore you to study it when you do.
Of course its suspect. If something doesnt make sense, it absolutely should be suspect, what a silly notion. Im not saying shrodingers cat doesnt make sense, im saying it falls into the realm of creationist theory. If nothing exists until its observed, then there must have been something outside of that rule to have made the first observation, which is nonsense, and really has no bearing on this particular topic, unlike the Observers Effect. I dont know how that would translate from quantum levels to the macro world, but then, we are talking about UFOs, so i suppose any wild notions are allowed?
 
Who said anything about various, I was speaking directly to peoples reported observations to which dotini was trying to junp to a woowoo conclusion. Hell you even liked and responded to my initial post on that in the affirmative. And FWIW, life is way to short to be serious, especially on a video game forum.

First off who cares if it is a video game forum, this fallback to detract is a bit silly since, many of us here are in science based careers and backgrounds and quite educated. This just happens to be the collective means by which we all happen to share ideas. So what if it is a forum that is based on the fandom of GT, it has long transcended that for better or worse.

As for what Dotini said, not sure if your memory is fickle but my like of your post and also agreeing verbally with what you said should have been enough to avoid this line of discussion. Seeing as I agree with you that his jumping to that conclusion based on nothing other than his bias, wrong.

To which I didnt deny. Whats being misconstrued is your intent to show involvement when I said cover up, and my arguing against a cover up when you said involvement. None of which is the point as I was initially making the claim of cover up in regards to dotini talking about the gov dribbling out content. See post 2185.

Why would I show involvement, when I never said I agree there is a cover up. I shifted the discussion to the broader prospect of the fact that the governments are involved. In doing so it suggests that depending on the government there is a control or attempt at masking information. Much of the info to come out from the U.S. government had to be requested in FOIAs as to where Canada and UK were more willing to release all files on the matter after some time. This could be claimed to be some attempt at hiding the truth even if that isn't the case. I believe some of these cases were done around classified systems and thus because of that, they wouldn't be released to the public anyways.

MKUltra is a pointless example anyway, since i find it unlikely some ufo injected drugs into a witness from some unknown distance to control them. And to be honest, mind control isnt what we would be talking about anyway, rather, manipulation of either memories, or what is being observed.

You brought up mind control I simply said no one on here is suggesting mind control. I used it because you used a situation from Stargate project to talk about something entirely different.

Of course its suspect. If something doesnt make sense, it absolutely should be suspect, what a silly notion. Im not saying shrodingers cat doesnt make sense, im saying it falls into the realm of creationist theory. If nothing exists until its observed, then there must have been something outside of that rule to have made the first observation, which is nonsense, and really has no bearing on this particular topic, unlike the Observers Effect. I dont know how that would translate from quantum levels to the macro world, but then, we are talking about UFOs, so i suppose any wild notions are allowed?

No it shouldn't, most people don't understand multivariable calculus or when I do ODEs. So that is suspect because they are unwilling, unable or something else? Also the theory doesn't fall into creationist stuff it's be shown several times and been placed on the basis of probability, though physicist have done it with creationist too so you can't really say that theory is bollocks either. Also what about things that aren't observed but theorized and then observed or found after?

Also no one said any wild notions are allowed, rather people are saying instead of hostility, how about discussing potentials. It seems much easier for someone of your thought to simply reject. And then when it is verified to the level you are find with, you'll accept it. I find someone talking about matter and consciousness, giving theory and others using that science as a potential to UFO phenomenon not quite "wild notions". Beings from Venus on the other hand...not so much
 
This is one of the toughest of all subjects to openly deal with. Only about 10% of the human population ever get to witness the puzzling phenomena. Once you've experienced it, you know in your bones something very, very strange is going on. For those who have not experienced it, it makes a lot of sense to remain deeply skeptical, even derisive, since it is such a poor fit for current materialistic science and culture.

Agreed, I've had the questionable pleasure to witness half a dozen of things that have shaken my view of the ''ordinary'' world and reality, things not just related to this topic. This changes a person forever.
 
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Agreed, I've had the questionable pleasure to witness half a dozen of things that have shaken my view of the ''ordinary'' world and reality, things not just related to this topic. This changes a person forever.
It may interest you to know that the peer-reviewed journal American Psychology has reported "the evidence provides cumulative support for the reality of psi".


Am Psychol. 2018 May 24. doi: 10.1037/amp0000236. [Epub ahead of print]
The experimental evidence for parapsychological phenomena: A review.
Cardeña E1.
Author information

Abstract
This article presents a comprehensive integration of current experimental evidence and theories about so-called parapsychological (psi) phenomena. Throughout history, people have reported events that seem to violate the common sense view of space and time. Some psychologists have been at the forefront of investigating these phenomena with sophisticated research protocols and theory, while others have devoted much of their careers to criticizing the field. Both stances can be explained by psychologists' expertise on relevant processes such as perception, memory, belief, and conscious and nonconscious processes. This article clarifies the domain of psi, summarizes recent theories from physics and psychology that present psi phenomena as at least plausible, and then provides an overview of recent/updated meta-analyses. The evidence provides cumulative support for the reality of psi, which cannot be readily explained away by the quality of the studies, fraud, selective reporting, experimental or analytical incompetence, or other frequent criticisms. The evidence for psi is comparable to that for established phenomena in psychology and other disciplines, although there is no consensual understanding of them. The article concludes with recommendations for further progress in the field including the use of project and data repositories, conducting multidisciplinary studies with enough power, developing further nonconscious measures of psi and falsifiable theories, analyzing the characteristics of successful sessions and participants, improving the ecological validity of studies, testing how to increase effect sizes, recruiting more researchers at least open to the possibility of psi, and situating psi phenomena within larger domains such as the study of consciousness. (PsycINFO Database Record.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29792448
https://www.dailygrail.com/2018/06/...ing-the-evidence-for-superpowers-of-the-mind/
 
Very curiously, it is documented that when multiple witnesses see the same UFO, often they will have very different descriptions of what it is they thought they saw.

This begins to suggest that the phenomena goes well beyond being strictly physical, and crosses the boundary into the consciousness of the observer.

Sounds like the blind men and the elephant to me.

Once you've experienced it, you know in your bones something very, very strange is going on. For those who have not experienced it, it makes a lot of sense to remain deeply skeptical, even derisive, since it is such a poor fit for current materialistic science and culture.

You of all people know that human perception and intuition is notoriously misleading and inaccurate. That's why we have the scientific method.


I think you have misplaced your sense of humour.
 
According to ratings data released by Nielsen, Tucker Carlson Tonight was the highest-rated hour in cable news for May, with 2,671,000 total viewers. Ever since the bombshell announcement last December from the Pentagon (via the NY Times and others) that UFOs are real, Tucker has covered the topic several times. Here's the latest.
 
Ever since the bombshell announcement last December from the Pentagon (via the NY Times and others) that UFOs are real,

That's a slightly disingenously presented statement. The reality that I think you're leading is to is not the obvious, logical reality that there are some aerial phenomenon that remain unidentified.

Here's an interesting article on Wired about the whole shens.

According to ratings data released by Nielsen, Tucker Carlson Tonight was the highest-rated hour in cable news for May, with 2,671,000 total viewers.

3rd behind Madow and Hannity, according to their website. Is that relevant though? Do we think that because a lot of people saw it that it's exponentially more real?
 
. The reality that I think you're leading is to is not the obvious, logical reality that there are some aerial phenomenon that remain unidentified.

What reality do you think I'm leading to? I'd like to know! I've tried to make it clear that I don't believe the phenomena are extraterrestrial alien beings. I've tried to present my opinion that the phenomena is one of great difficulty, involving human beings and involving the phenomena of consciousness. I'm pretty sure there is a strong electromagnetic quality to the phenomena. Beyond that, I'm just as baffled as anyone else. If you think there is another reality, what do you think it is? Maybe it is no more than Carl Jung's collective human unconscious manifesting in nature?

Do we think that because a lot of people saw it that it's exponentially more real?

Good question. The short answer is yes, very much so, because:
a) The US government at long last has officially acknowledged the phenomena as real. Military and airline pilots and employees can now come forward and discuss their experiences with less fear of losing their position and reputation.
b) News organizations and reporters can now deal with the subject more openly, honestly, widely and frequently because of the reduction of the ridicule factor.
c) The public can now more readily discuss and participate in the topic via cellphone videos and other means of data collection and input. They can do so more openly, honestly, widely and frequently because of the reduction of the ridicule factor.
d) This increased general awareness, perception, and active involvement in understanding how widespread and significant the phenomena is can hopefully lead to solutions to the mystery and confusion.

All these factors lead to the mysterious phenomena becoming more understandable and exponentially more real in terms of it's acceptance and true significance to humanity. The BS and film-flam can hopefully be left behind. Yes indeed, more reality and less hokum. Am I to understand that you prefer it to remain an unknown and never identified?
 
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In several places around the world, such as Hessdalen, Norway and Yakima's Toppenish Ridge, Washington State, USA, glowing UFOs have been seen for decades to rise from under the earth. They seem to be indigenous to these particular locales. After they emerge from earth, they do all the 'routine' things UFOs are expected to do, then go back into the ground. Objects traveling through solid earth? Yes. Extraterrestrial aliens? No. If the word alien is maybe perhaps remotely appropriate, the word extraterrestrial is definitely not. Ultraterrestrial is better, and inter- or extra-dimensional may be a stretch and not really required. Bring on Lord Kinbote!

 
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Hey Doti! Have you listened much to Terrance McKenna? I have been contemplating creating a thread about some of his "philosophies" but I am not sure how that all will play out with the AUP and thus the mods due to the amount of talk that would circle around psychedelic drug use.
He does has some very neat ideas about e.t's though.
 
Hey Doti! Have you listened much to Terrance McKenna? I have been contemplating creating a thread about some of his "philosophies" but I am not sure how that all will play out with the AUP and thus the mods due to the amount of talk that would circle around psychedelic drug use.
He does has some very neat ideas about e.t's though.

I agree McKenna has some interesting things to say about ETs, shamanic/archaic reality, consciousness, religious experience, human material civilization, etc. While I'm not a user of psychedelic drugs, I agree they definitely can touch on the alien experience. Controlled experiments with DMT on college student volunteers seem to confirm this. I have at least half a dozen books in my library that cover the crossover on these topics, and would contribute to any thread you might create. However, the mods and most GTP'ers are probably not going to flock into this peculiar twilight zone. Agreeing on what is real is a great difficulty. Including psychedelic experience in our journey of discovery of life's mysteries is probably too tenuous to take on here.
 
In keeping with the idea that the solution to the UFO mystery is bound together with the mystery of consciousness, we present a new article from
Scientific American that might help explain things.

Scientific American
Could Multiple Personality Disorder Explain Life, the Universe and Everything?

A new paper argues the condition now known as “dissociative identity disorder” might help us understand the fundamental nature of reality


F3133D9B-B485-4B8B-848D31DB1A8C87AC.jpg

Credit: Brielle McConnell Getty Images


In 2015, doctors in Germany reported the extraordinary case of a woman who suffered from what has traditionally been called “multiple personality disorder” and today is known as “dissociative identity disorder” (DID). The woman exhibited a variety of dissociated personalities (“alters”), some of which claimed to be blind. Using EEGs, the doctors were able to ascertain that the brain activity normally associated with sight wasn’t present while a blind alter was in control of the woman’s body, even though her eyes were open. Remarkably, when a sighted alter assumed control, the usual brain activity returned.

This was a compelling demonstration of the literally blinding power of extreme forms of dissociation, a condition in which the psyche gives rise to multiple, operationally separate centers of consciousness, each with its own private inner life.

Modern neuroimaging techniques have demonstrated that DID is real: in a 2014 study, doctors performed functional brain scans on both DID patients and actors simulating DID. The scans of the actual patients displayed clear differences when compared to those of the actors, showing that dissociation has an identifiable neural activity fingerprint. In other words, there is something rather particular that dissociative processes look like in the brain.

There is also compelling clinical data showing that different alters can be concurrently conscious and see themselves as distinct identities. One of us has written an extensive treatment of evidence for this distinctness of identity and the complex forms of interactive memory that accompany it, particularly in those extreme cases of DID that are usually referred to as multiple personality disorder.

The history of this condition dates back to the early 19th century, with a flurry of cases in the 1880s through the 1920s, and again from the 1960s to the late 1990s. The massive literature on the subject confirms the consistent and uncompromising sense of separateness experienced by the alter personalities. It also displays compelling evidence that the human psyche is constantly active in producing personal units of perception and action that might be needed to deal with the challenges of life.

Although we may be at a loss to explain precisely how this creative process occurs (because it unfolds almost totally beyond the reach of self-reflective introspection) the clinical evidence nevertheless forces us to acknowledge something is happening that has important implications for our views about what is and is not possible in nature.

Now, a newly published paper by one of us posits that dissociation can offer a solution to a critical problem in our current understanding of the nature of reality. This requires some background, so bear with us.

According to the mainstream metaphysical view of physicalism, reality is fundamentally constituted by physical stuff outside and independent of mind. Mental states, in turn, should be explainable in terms of the parameters of physical processes in the brain.

A key problem of physicalism, however, is its inability to make sense of how our subjective experience of qualities—what it is like to feel the warmth of fire, the redness of an apple, the bitterness of disappointment and so on—could arise from mere arrangements of physical stuff.

Physical entities such as subatomic particles possess abstract relational properties, such as mass, spin, momentum and charge. But there is nothing about these properties, or in the way particles are arranged in a brain, in terms of which one could deduce what the warmth of fire, the redness of an apple or the bitterness of disappointment feel like. This is known as the hard problem of consciousness.

To circumvent this problem, some philosophers have proposed an alternative: that experience is inherent to every fundamental physical entity in nature. Under this view, called “constitutive panpsychism,” matter already has experience from the get-go, not just when it arranges itself in the form of brains. Even subatomic particles possess some very simple form of consciousness. Our own human consciousness is then (allegedly) constituted by a combination of the subjective inner lives of the countless physical particles that make up our nervous system.

However, constitutive panpsychism has a critical problem of its own: there is arguably no coherent, non-magical way in which lower-level subjective points of view—such as those of subatomic particles or neurons in the brain, if they have these points of view—could combine to form higher-level subjective points of view, such as yours and ours. This is called the combination problem and it appears just as insoluble as the hard problem of consciousness.

The obvious way around the combination problem is to posit that, although consciousness is indeed fundamental in nature, it isn’t fragmented like matter. The idea is to extend consciousness to the entire fabric of spacetime, as opposed to limiting it to the boundaries of individual subatomic particles. This view—called “cosmopsychism” in modern philosophy, although our preferred formulation of it boils down to what has classically been called “idealism”—is that there is only one, universal, consciousness. The physical universe as a whole is the extrinsic appearance of universal inner life, just as a living brain and body are the extrinsic appearance of a person’s inner life.

You don’t need to be a philosopher to realize the obvious problem with this idea: people have private, separate fields of experience. We can’t normally read your thoughts and, presumably, neither can you read ours. Moreover, we are not normally aware of what’s going on across the universe and, presumably, neither are you. So, for idealism to be tenable, one must explain—at least in principle—how one universal consciousness gives rise to multiple, private but concurrently conscious centers of cognition, each with a distinct personality and sense of identity.

And here is where dissociation comes in. We know empirically from DID that consciousness can give rise to many operationally distinct centers of concurrent experience, each with its own personality and sense of identity. Therefore, if something analogous to DID happens at a universal level, the one universal consciousness could, as a result, give rise to many alters with private inner lives like yours and ours. As such, we may all be alters—dissociated personalities—of universal consciousness.

Moreover, as we’ve seen earlier, there is something dissociative processes look like in the brain of a patient with DID. So, if some form of universal-level DID happens, the alters of universal consciousness must also have an extrinsic appearance. We posit that this appearance is life itself: metabolizing organisms are simply what universal-level dissociative processes look like.

Idealism is a tantalizing view of the nature of reality, in that it elegantly circumvents two arguably insoluble problems: the hard problem of consciousness and the combination problem. Insofar as dissociation offers a path to explaining how, under idealism, one universal consciousness can become many individual minds, we may now have at our disposal an unprecedentedly coherent and empirically grounded way of making sense of life, the universe and everything.

The views expressed are those of the author(s) and are not necessarily those of Scientific American.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR(S)
Bernardo Kastrup

Bernardo Kastrup has a Ph.D. in computer engineering from Eindhoven University of Technology and specializations in artificial intelligence and reconfigurable computing. He has worked as a scientist in some of the world's foremost research laboratories, including the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) and the Philips Research Laboratories. He has authored many science and philosophy papers, as well as several philosophy books. His three most recent books are: "More Than Allegory," "Brief Peeks Beyond" and "Why Materialism Is Baloney."
 
I agree McKenna has some interesting things to say about ETs, shamanic/archaic reality, consciousness, religious experience, human material civilization, etc. While I'm not a user of psychedelic drugs, I agree they definitely can touch on the alien experience. Controlled experiments with DMT on college student volunteers seem to confirm this. I have at least half a dozen books in my library that cover the crossover on these topics, and would contribute to any thread you might create. However, the mods and most GTP'ers are probably not going to flock into this peculiar twilight zone. Agreeing on what is real is a great difficulty. Including psychedelic experience in our journey of discovery of life's mysteries is probably too tenuous to take on here.
Due to the bolded, I'll respond to the italicized here. Ive not been fortunate enough to find DMT here. But I have done a fair number of other psychedelics. As such, i cannot comment personally on what I will call the DMT spirit. However, those i know who have, as well as listening to many who have in various podcasts all seem too have had experiences with the DMT spirit, and all reports seem very similar. This was in fact a dilemma that McKenna expressed in that segment. That scientifically, it's nearly impossible to prove since you experience the "visit" in such a truly personal manner. Yet some many shared, similar examples exist that its hard not to draw a conclusion. Which makes it even more difficult, cause now you have to almost take a religious stance, and have a sort of faith in this experience.
Given however, how common the use of at least mushrooms and other analogous substances were throigh out early human history, might it be possible that the precieved "alien" pictographs, stone reliefs and other various art could have been inspired by visions, or perhaps even while under the influence of psychedelics?
Its said that our brain size has been shrinking over the past 10,000 years. If you are given to believe in the stoned ape theory, and I certainly am not unconvinced, then i wonder if there is a coincidence with ingestion of psychedelics. If that is the case, that could have some interesting implications on modern religions. If part of the brain that has shrunk happens to be the part that makes it easier to "commune" with the DMT spirit, or even that, errrr, realm? Then this could perhaps explain the sort of disappearing god thing we have. I mean, none state this specifically, but the vibe at least is there. Old polytheistic religions have gods that at least in part walk around in the human realm, old religions are not unsimilar. However, modern religions seem to have a god that was there, and is now gone. Perhaps to one day return, but not today.
Hmm, i think I could take this pretty deep. I however am a bonafide buzzed (all that beer talk in the american thread drove me to drink!) master of none, and will keep the deepness for a day less buzzed and better acquainted with my ideas.
Edit. For clarity, the reason Ive not seen said spirit is likely because ive only recently started using anything for something other than recreational. Two instances in fact. The first was a very rough introspection, and the second, i was certainly experiencing another realm to put it to terms. I am thinking for my next time, I may try and find a shaman type, or McKenna type. perhaps I'll have an existential experience with a psychedelic ET.
 
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Skilled interview by George Knapp with Kevin Day, retired Senior Chief Petty Officer involved in over 8 days of tracking 100's of AAV (Anomalous Aerial Vehicle) encounters from the combat center of the USS Princeton. He describes encountering objects traveling at up to 48,000 mph, going from 28,000 ft to sea level in less than a second. These objects apparently first appeared in the vicinity of Catalina Island, traveling south in large groups at very low speeds, except during encounters with the F-18's from the Nimitz. Seen, filmed and tracked on radars from the entire carrier group, including E-2 Hawkeyes, as well as fishermen, ground radar and others near Catalina Island, this is said to be the best documented UFO encounter in history.





Jacques Vallée interviews, materials analysis.

A physics professor advocates study of UFOs.
https://theconversation.com/are-we-alone-the-question-is-worthy-of-serious-scientific-study-98843
 
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Evidence of unknown "alien" lifeforms living inside gemstones. Who would have thunk it? Lord Kinbote.

Mysterious Organisms Living Inside Gemstones and the Search for Alien Life

Brett TingleyAugust 11, 2018

A recent scientific study reveals that life may exist in places we haven’t even considered before, possibly opening new possibilities in our search for life outside of Earth. According to new research published in PLOS One, garnets found in Thailand may be evidence of unknown forms of microbial life which are capable of living inside of the gemstones themselves, possibly representing an entirely new habitat for life.

Garnet_Andradite20-640x506.jpg

For years, geologists have observed strange systems of microscopic channels or tunnels in the centers of garnets. It was previously assumed that these were the product of some unknown geological process, perhaps the grains of another mineral working their way through the garnets. That would be difficult to prove however, because the only minerals capable of cutting through garnets are diamonds or sapphires.

garnet-microbes-2-640x475.jpg

Channels within the garnets. Credit: Ivarsson et al, 2018

With that mystery in mind, the University of Southern Denmark’s Dr. Magnus Ivarsson travelled to Thailand where garnets are commonly found in river sediments in order to find specimens of these channeled garnets and find out what might be creating the tunnels. After cracking a few open and searching for clues inside, Ivarsson and his team discovered evidence of lipids and fatty acids in the tunnels – evidence of life.

garnet-microbes-640x477.jpg

Credit: Ivarsson et al, 2018

According to their publication, the presence of these molecules and the lack of them on the outside of the garnets can likely only be caused by some type of unknown microbes living inside the stones themselves:

The organic content of the garnet interior detected by [mass spectrometry] and the complex nature of these organic molecules indicate microbial presence within the tunnel system of the garnets. […] The lack of organic compounds on the garnet surfaces, the relative complex nature of the organic compounds and their abundance throughout the tunnels indicate that they likely represent remnants of endolithic communities once living in the network of tunnels in the garnets.

The exact processes through which microbes can eat garnet and create these tunnels remain unknown. There are organisms known as endoliths which can live inside of rocks or minerals, but these are typically found in softer, more porous minerals or rocks such as sandstone.

While on one hand this is merely the discovery of some weird germs inside pretty rocks found here on Earth, this study could have far-reaching ramifications for our search for extraterrestrial life. If life can be found inside of a relatively hard mineral on Earth, who knows in what other overlooked or seemingly far-fetched places else it might be hiding?
 
Very well-informed commentary from Nick Richardson writing in the London Review of Books. Please note what he has to say about Jacques Vallée.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n15/nick-richardson/diary

Vol. 40 No. 15 · 2 August 2018
pages 42-43 | 3065 words


Diary
Nick Richardson

In December, footage of UFOs taken from US military planes, officially declassified and approved for release by the US government, was published online by an organisation called To The Stars Academy. The first video of two – a third was released in March – was captured by a US Navy Super Hornet fighter plane using an infrared camera. It’s only about thirty seconds long, and the date of the footage and the plane’s location have been withheld. As soon as it starts one of the pilots can be heard saying, ‘It’s a ****ing drone, bro,’ as the camera locks onto a small white blob (the camera is in ‘white-hot’ mode, so hot things show up as white), longer than it is wide, flying over the clouds at a steady distance from the Super Hornet. The other pilot replies: ‘There’s a whole fleet of them.’ ‘My gosh,’ the first pilot says; the other points out that the ‘drones’ are flying against the wind and that the windspeed is 120 knots. In the last few seconds of the video the object rotates 90º about one of its axes and the first pilot splutters, ‘Look at that thing!’, to which the other replies: ‘It’s rotating!’

The second piece of footage was taken from a Super Hornet in 2004 off the coast of San Diego using the same camera/sensor equipment as for the first video. There’s a white blob, then the camera switches to ‘TV mode’ and zooms in to reveal that the blob is oblong-shaped. Just before the footage ends the UFO suddenly accelerates and speeds out of shot to the left. There’s no audio, but To The Stars has released a recent interview with the pilot of a different plane and a declassified report by another pilot, both of whom saw the UFO that day too. In the interview the pilot, David Fravor, explains that he was out on a routine training exercise when he was told that the exercise had been suspended, that he was being sent on a real mission instead, and that he was to fly to a point thirty miles west. When Fravor arrived at the location he saw an object ‘about the size of a 737’ – so nearly 140 feet long – beneath the surface of the sea. Above it was a wingless, fifty-foot-long UFO shaped like a ‘tic-tac’, which flew in erratic patterns over the submerged object, then began to mirror Fravor’s plane’s movements as he brought it around in a circle. When Fravor flew towards the UFO it shot off at great speed; he went back to see what had happened to the thing under the water, but it had disappeared. Later, his colleagues confirmed that the navy had been tracking the UFO for two weeks, and that the object had been observed rapidly descending from an altitude of eighty thousand feet before hovering a while then disappearing. The report by the pilot, ‘a highly decorated and recognised expert in aviation and navy combat flight operations with Top Secret clearance’, contains many of the same observations as Fravor’s account. He also saw the underwater object and the tic-tac, which ‘tumbled’ when pursued ‘into nonsensical angles’.

I was surprised that the US government signed off on the release of these materials. They have publicly admitted, in effect, that highly trained and experienced pilots (Fravor had been a pilot for 16 years when he saw the UFO) have seen aircraft that they are unable to identify, doing things that they and their colleagues are unable to explain. ‘Unexplained’ doesn’t mean alien, as the astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson emphasised on CNN after the footage was released: ‘Just because you don’t know what it is you’re looking at doesn’t mean it’s intelligent aliens visiting from another planet.’ Well, yes, but credible alternative explanations are lacking. The sophistication of the recording equipment, the number and quality of witnesses, the tic-tacs’ angular flight patterns and the fact that they had been tracked for days would seem to rule out the possibility that the UFOs were some kind of unusual weather phenomenon or mirage. It’s also unlikely that another government, or non-governmental agency, would have been able to develop flight technology with capabilities that exceed the United States’ own without the military and intelligence agencies knowing about it. These UFOs fly with no obvious propulsion system, they’re capable of hypersonic velocities without leaving a ‘signature’ – no sonic boom, no vapour trails – and they can manoeuvre with acrobatic flexibility. Some have suggested that the UFOs may be prototypes that belong to the US, citing precedents like the Roswell incident of 1947, when an object that many believed to be an alien craft crash-landed on a ranch in New Mexico: it wasn’t until the 1990s that the US government revealed that what was initially claimed to be a ‘weather balloon’ was in fact a nuclear surveillance test balloon produced as part of the top-secret Cold War initiative Project Mogul. But if the aircraft in the footage belonged to the US military, why would the footage be declassified now? And if the technology was being developed in 2004, no matter by whom, what has become of it? Fravor, when asked about the origins of the UFO by a Fox News presenter shortly after the footage was released, said that he believed it was ‘not from this world’.

The release of the footage may be strange, but the mechanism of its release is stranger still. To The Stars was founded by Tom DeLonge, who used to be the singer in the pop-punk band Blink-182. He is a long-time UFO obsessive: as a member of Blink-182 he wrote songs about them (like ‘Aliens Exist’, from the album Enema of the State) and spoke about them in interviews. In 2011 he launched a website called Strange Times, which hosted news and articles on UFOs, cryptozoology and the paranormal, and in 2015 he quit the band and founded To The Stars – the title of one of DeLonge’s solo albums and of a sci-fi novel by L. Ron Hubbard – as a media company. Around that time he gave an interview to Paper magazine in which he talked about his ‘sources from the government’ and claimed his phone had been tapped. He sounded crazy then, but less so now. When To The Stars Academy was launched in October 2017, DeLonge broadcast a livestream on YouTube in which he explained that shortly after the publication of his novel about UFOs, Sekret Machines, in 2016, he was contacted by ‘a man from a certain agency’ who told him: ‘You know things you shouldn’t know and I need to know who the hell you are.’ He was invited to meet with ‘generals’ and members of the intelligence community, and to visit Lockheed’s advanced development labs, known as the ‘Skunk Works’: he describes being taken through a machine gun guarded gate into a hallway lined with speakers emitting white noise, which led to a lab where engineers were working on what looked like spaceships. The official version of what happened next is that a number of the people he met, concerned at the lack of investigation into UFO sightings, agreed to join DeLonge’s company and to make To The Stars the exclusive venue for newly declassified material.

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The optics of the livestream (which is still up on YouTube) are unsettling. DeLonge talks of the founding of the organisation and his encounters with the US military-intelligence establishment with the wide-eyed enthusiasm of a child who can’t believe his dreams are coming true. He describes To The Stars as ‘science fiction Disney for adults’. Meanwhile, behind him sit the other members of the organisation, five veterans of the US military and intelligence communities, all whom look like they know where the bodies are buried. DeLonge’s co-founders are Jim Semivan, a ‘retired’ senior CIA agent, and Hal Puthoff, a physicist, engineer and Nasa adviser who directed a CIA investigation into the possibility of psychic espionage back in the 1980s. Their ‘director of global security and special programmes’ is Luis Elizondo, another former intelligence agent who ran the ‘Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification’ department at the Pentagon which had been minding the tic-tac footage. The ‘national security affairs adviser’ is Chris Mellon, deputy assistant secretary of defence for intelligence during the Clinton and Bush administrations, whom DeLonge describes as ‘our main conduit to Washington’. In the livestream – and in a recent piece for the Washington Post – Mellon talks about the UFO footage and says that one of the main reasons for getting involved with To The Stars Academy is that he wants it to trigger a new space race: alerting the public to the technological capabilities of aliens will, he believes, inspire a new age of technological innovation, just as Sputnik did in the 1950s. Steve Justice, a senior engineer at the Lockheed Skunk Works and the director of To The Stars’s ‘Aerospace Division’, adds that the intention is to ‘harvest’ alien technologies and use them to develop ‘exotic craft’. That would be far out enough in itself, but To The Stars isn’t stopping there: a video on its website describes a plan to perform research into ‘genetics, warp drive metrics, beamed energy propulsion, brain-computer interfaces’ and ‘consciousness’.

People are sceptical about To The Stars, and not only because its plans – not to say its very existence – seem so implausible. One thing is the way it’s funded. To The Stars is a public benefit corporation looking for investment from ‘global citizens’; their spaceships, initially, will be crowdfunded, via direct investment in the organisation and via the sale of T-shirts, books including Sekret Machines (and a hokey new novel called Poet Anderson … In Darkness), and other merchandise. Luis Elizondo’s Aerospace Threat Identification Department had its funding cut by the Pentagon in 2012, and some believe that he and the other greybeards are just exploiting DeLonge for cushy jobs at the expense of UFO believers. It’s a good rule of thumb to distrust anyone who promises to reveal secrets on the condition that you pay for them first. But perhaps it’s unlikely that people like Mellon and Justice – well-known and respected in their fields – would attach themselves to a seedy money-making venture. And Elizondo is an expert in microbiology and parasitology and an inventor with several patents: he doesn’t need UFOs to make a living.

A more serious issue, as far as members of the international Ufology community are concerned, has to do with the relationship between DeLonge and the other members of his company. Watching the To The Stars livestream, I couldn’t shake off the feeling DeLonge is out of his depth. ‘The department of defence has a culture of secrecy,’ he says at one point, ‘not out of disdain for its citizens but because it’s appropriate for protecting its people and methods.’ I’ll do exactly what they tell me to, in other words. But the intelligence and defence establishment’s history of exploiting Ufologists is well known, especially to the Ufologists themselves. The documentary film The Mirage Men, which came out in 2013, begins by telling the story of Paul Bennewitz, a businessman from Albuquerque who was driven mad by spies in the 1980s. Bennewitz had noticed strange lights and sounds coming from a nearby military base and reported them to staff there, who assigned him to an agent called Richard Doty. Doty discovered that Bennewitz had collected a lot of accurate data relating to a top-secret project and decided to mislead him into thinking he’d been witnessing UFOs. He encouraged Bennewitz in his research, feeding him disinformation that led him to believe he’d discovered a secret alien base. Bennewitz obsessively collected evidence, much of it planted by Doty and his colleagues, which he then passed on to other UFO researchers and government agencies, eventually becoming so deranged that his family had to have him committed.

Doty, who is interviewed in the film, admits that this was common practice during the Cold War: there was always a chance that UFO researchers could stumble on real military secrets, so it was better to keep them occupied with fake leads. Another former agent in the film admits to disguising helicopters as UFOs in order to conceal what they were really doing, which was measuring radiation levels after testing nuclear explosives. Doty also fed disinformation to Bill Moore, who wrote the first book on Roswell and who, in exchange for this disinformation, reported back to Doty on developments in the Ufology community so that any inquiries undertaken by UFO-spotters that might lead to the exposure of military secrets could be misdirected. This community is wary of DeLonge’s team, understandably. They’ve seen energetic but credulous young men cajoled into spreading ******** – or the wrong kind of ******** – before.

There’s reason to think, you could argue, that this time it’s different. The Cold War is over; Mellon, Semivan and Elizondo are not operating from the shadows as Doty did; and there is genuine declassified UFO footage for the first time, as well as pilots’ reports. But it is true that whatever we get from To The Stars is going to be an establishment-vetted and controlled version. A surprising number of Ufologists believe that this will only be a partial disclosure because the real truth is that UFOs aren’t alien at all. This notion grew out of the work of Jacques Vallée, a French astronomer and computer scientist whose books draw on psychoanalysis, mythography, sociology and occultism in their investigation of the UFO phenomenon. In 1955, aged 16, Vallée saw a UFO over his home in Pontoise, north-west of Paris. In 1961, while working at France’s National Space Committee, he apparently witnessed a senior member of staff destroying tracking tapes of a UFO and decided then that he would begin investigating UFOs himself. There are too many cases of UFO sightings by reliable, sober, sceptical witnesses – often groups of them simultaneously – for their accounts to be explained away as clouds or hallucinations. But as Vallée continued his research he came to realise that the eyewitness reports were at odds with the idea that UFOs and their pilots come from outer space.

In Passport to Magonia (1969) Vallée examined the overlap between modern accounts of UFO experiences and the folklore of fairies, gnomes and elves. The book’s contention is that UFOs, and their pilots, behave much more like these creatures than like intelligent, technologically advanced emissaries of an alien race. Take the case of Joe Simonton, a farmer from Wisconsin, who had a silver flying saucer land in his garden at 11 o’clock in the morning one day in April 1961. Simonton said that there were three men in the machine, each of them about five feet tall, and that they had dark hair and skin, wore turtleneck tops and knitted helmets, and ‘resembled Italians’. The aliens requested water, and in return gave Simonton an oatmeal pancake that they had cooked on a grill in their ship. This isn’t the kind of thing that humans would do if we were technologically advanced enough to go about the universe meeting aliens: we would appear to their leaders and present them with gifts and documents of our civilisation’s achievements. But in folklore it is common for fairies to appear to rural people and exchange food with them, often wheat or cakes. It is common for fairies to leave rings of flattened crops behind them, just as it is for UFOs, and it’s common for fairies to steal crops and livestock, just as it is in the lore of UFO sightings: there have been hundreds of reports, often from farmers, of alien creatures that have descended in shiny aircraft and stolen cows, sheep, dogs, even bags of fertiliser. ‘How can we explain that the phenomenon makes itself obvious to rural populations but avoids overt contact,’ Vallée asks, ‘choosing instead to deliver its message in a series of high-strangeness incidents?’ Humans have come into contact with these entities throughout history and have sought to explain them in the dominant terms of their culture: as angels, elves or aliens. But none of these explanations has accounted satisfactorily for their cryptic behaviour.

There are no entities in the footage released by To The Stars, or in the pilots’ accounts of their experiences with the tic-tacs. But the tic-tacs did behave more weirdly than anyone at To The Stars seems to want to acknowledge. What are we to make of the massive object in the ocean that the tic-tac, as described by Fravor, seemed to be drawing to the surface? Or of the fact that the tic-tacs, which the navy had been tracking for two weeks, had been dropping out of the sky from a height of eighty thousand feet and hovering over the ocean, before shooting off at great speed? This doesn’t sound like the behaviour of alien pilots on parade, or on some kind of reconnaissance mission. Again, the notion that this activity was performed by advanced, extraterrestrial entities seems unlikely, unless this species is so advanced that its motivations are incomprehensible to us.

Vallée has pointed out that UFOs have often indicated the way forward technologically. Flying ships were seen over medieval Europe, and the entities who flew them claimed to be from the world above the clouds; at the end of the 19th century people saw ‘airships’, piloted by people claiming they were from Mars. To The Stars is hoping that the footage it has released will bring about the next wave of aerospace technology – that it will point engineers towards innovations they wouldn’t otherwise have considered. But the tic-tac may not be a spacecraft, or even a machine, at all. What if To The Stars exists because it’s safer to have Tom DeLonge let us believe in aliens with superior technology than it is to acknowledge that reality itself may be different from what we think it is, and that the US government doesn’t understand it either?
 
One of the subjects I've shied away from mentioning is that of demons in connection to UFOs. But now that's pretty hard to avoid because of several articles denoting the convergence of opinion among three top experts on the UFO/paranormal/demonic phenomena topics. One is a leading popular author Nick Redfern, another is the highly awarded and experienced instigative journalist George Knapp, and notably the leading UFO/paranormal sceptic and debunker, Jason Colavito. All three seem to assent that fundamentalist Christians in key institutional places in the US armed forces, including the Air Force, have long ago concluded that demons are responsible for all the phenomena, including crop circles, animal mutilation and Bigfoot. And furthermore it is they that have controlled funding of research and release of information - or lack of same - to the US public for generations.

sampling,
http://www.openminds.tv/george-knapp-hunt-for-the-skinwalker-interview-transcript/42039
http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/g...-paranormal-and-ufo-probes-due-to-demon-fears
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1933665483/?tag=gtplanet-20
https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2018...gencies-take-note-of-books-on-the-paranormal/
 
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The NASA sponsored site spaceweather.com relates news of a potential alien visit to our solar system.

DID AN ALIEN LIGHT SAIL VISIT THE SOLAR SYSTEM?: It sounds like a tabloid headline, but in this case it could be real. Mainstream researchers from the Harvard Center for Astrophysics have made the case that interstellar asteroid 'Oumuamua could in fact be an alien light sail. Their original researchwas posted Oct. 31st on the moderated preprint server arXiv.org.

The story of 'Oumuamua begins in October 2017 when it was discovered by Robert Weryk using the Pan-STARRS telescope atop Hawaii's Haleakalā volcano. Astronomers quickly realized that 'Oumuamua was something special: The object was hurtling through the Solar System on an unbound "hyperbolic" orbit. It came from the stars. Dramatic changes in the object's brightness suggested that it was tumbling and asymmetric–thin and wide like a cigar or perhaps a pancake.

oumuamua_strip.jpg

Above: This artist's concept shows how 'Oumuamua is usually depicted: as a cigar-shaped asteroid.

On its way out of the Solar System, something unexpected happened. 'Oumuamua accelerated as if jets of gas were pushing it forward. Astronomers who initially thought 'Oumuamua was an asteroid now turned their attention to the comet hypothesis. Comets naturally develop jets after close approaches to the sun, and such jets could explain 'Oumuamua's behavior.

Just one problem: "Despite its close Solar approach of only 0.25 AU (inside the orbit of Mercury), 'Oumuamua shows no sign of any cometary activity, no cometary tail, nor gas emission/absorption lines," point out the Harvard researchers Shmuel Baily and Abraham Loeb. Moreover, "if outgassing was responsible for the acceleration, then the associated torques would have driven a rapid evolution in 'Oumuamua's spin, incompatible with observations."

So if it's not an asteroid, and it's not a comet, what could it be? Loeb, who is the chair of the astronomy department at Harvard University and also chairs the advisory board for the Breakthrough Starshot light sail project, realized that the acceleration profile was key. The non-gravitational acceleration of 'Oumuamua scaled with distance from the sun (r) as r-2 — just like a light sail would behave.


Above: The comet hypothesis. Credit: NASA/JPL [more]

Modeling 'Oumuamua as a thin object pushed by solar radiation pressure, Baily and Loeb found that it would fit the observations if it were a sheet of material 0.3 mm to 0.9 mm in thickness with a mass surface density of ~0.1 grams per square cm. "Although extremely thin, such an object would survive an interstellar travel over Galactic distances of about 5 kiloparsecs, withstanding collisions with gas and dust-grains as well as stresses from rotation and tidal forces," they wrote.

The researchers are now calling for more observations to look for 'Oumuamua-like visitors to the Solar System. "A survey for lightsails as technosignatures in the Solar System is warranted, irrespective of whether 'Oumuamua is one of them," they conclude.

Although technical, Baily and Loeb's paper is well written and unusually readable for nonspecialists. Check it out.
 
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He was also countered on this and it was said that the tumbling motion of the object itself was not indicative of a solar sail and that the claim or theory was quite lacking in evidence. If it was a solar sail of an inactive object, how would it be able to activate enter our solar system, deactivate and use a parabolic turn with no outgasing? Though the man who made this claim says the object came from a binary star system and his evidence from what I've seen and read is sparse as well.

I like the idea of Loeb's thought but I agree more evidence should be given. Though if anything Stephen Colbert was the first public person to make the claim it could be alien.
 
He was also countered on this and it was said that the tumbling motion of the object itself was not indicative of a solar sail and that the claim or theory was quite lacking in evidence. If it was a solar sail of an inactive object, how would it be able to activate enter our solar system, deactivate and use a parabolic turn with no outgasing? Though the man who made this claim says the object came from a binary star system and his evidence from what I've seen and read is sparse as well.

I like the idea of Loeb's thought but I agree more evidence should be given. Though if anything Stephen Colbert was the first public person to make the claim it could be alien.
Yeah, I agree, good thoughts and questions.. My personal opinion is that the object is alien only in the sense that it is "not from around here". However, our best astronomers agree it is neither comet nor asteroid as we currently understand them. So what precisely is it? It is convenient for Harvard and NASA to scientifically speculate that it may be debris from a failed probe from a distant star system. Alien maybe, but not a threat. Humanity collectively believes in the strong likelihood of alien life, yet no proof has ever been found. Oumuamua, "the messenger", is a great opportunity to drip-drip inoculate skeptics and religious fundamentalists into the possibility/likelihood that someday a live alien presence will be real and immediate.
 
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