Anybody else bored out of the game?

[mister dog]

That one I am quite confident is a victim of the frame rate. AI doesn't know about anything that is not in it's awareness range. So, where you and I can look at the track map, the AI cannot unless it is told to. Where you and I can see hundreds of meters up the track, the AI cannot unless it's told to.

The larger the range, the more processing power you need to scan that range. Based on what I have seen, I believe the AI can only "see" as far as range that sets off the adjacent car indicators and they can see the spline that denotes the track.

Hopefully, this assumption is correct and they can make that range much larger on PS4.

There's the rubber banding, and bots putting up the occasional challenge (which they didn't do before), so the bots are aware of you, but they have been programmed so player 1 can reach the front in the amount of laps available thus braking and entering corners at grandma pace and being in predictable positions in the corner so you could pass them easily. And to add injury to insult the rubber banding makes them wait for you in the last laps in case you couldn't catch up in time.

Just another incredibly dumb design decision that's all, they would be perfectly capable to use that same rubber banding and put it to good use. Give us qualifying should the player wants it, and a standing start on the front of the grid. Just make those bots drive almost as fast as you on the rubber band, and use the programming that's there already for bots fighting back occasionally to make them do it then. This is what any other racing game implements nowadays so why can't they with their stubbornness to stick to their idiot design decisions and then having to program their way around it?

 

[Imari]

That one I am quite confident is a victim of the frame rate. AI doesn't know about anything that is not in it's awareness range. So, where you and I can look at the track map, the AI cannot unless it is told to. Where you and I can see hundreds of meters up the track, the AI cannot unless it's told to.

The larger the range, the more processing power you need to scan that range. Based on what I have seen, I believe the AI can only "see" as far as range that sets off the adjacent car indicators and they can see the spline that denotes the track.

Hopefully, this assumption is correct and they can make that range much larger on PS4.

Or they could have made it larger right now, by not being so gung-ho on graphics. What if they'd kept the pre-upscale resolution at GT5 levels, and used that extra horsepower to drive better AI?

Regardless, I agree with @mister dog, it could be made better with what they have now. The AI seem to be generally capable of being fast enough, as shown when they have bursts of speed and catch up to you. They're aware enough, they're not great but unless they're brake checking you they can mostly hold a line. It's enough.

The AI in GT6 are crippled in that they can't use what skill they have. They're at the mercy of the rubberband system reining them in or boosting them forwards.

I think given equal cars and appropriate settings, the AI in GT6 would be capable of giving the player a reasonable race. If it was allowed to. It's not bad, but it's crippled so when you're actually playing there's little actual different between bad AI and good AI forced to play badly.

 

[Voodoovaj]

This is what any other racing game implements nowadays so why can't they with their stubbornness to stick to their idiot design decisions and then having to program their way around it?

I'm still skeptical on the "every other racing game" statements. The only real advancement I have heard of is drivatar, which is a move away from trying to advance AI.

I still contend that the issue is contextual. PD is searching for new blood. The end of a console cycle is when consoles are handed down to the younger members of a family (either by purchase or inheritance). That means, the AI is currently going to be really great to kids. My 9 year old LOVES playing GT. He totally believes the fantasy...Same with those guys I mentioned that tried online. So, again, from their perspective the AI is awesome.

I still think the best fix is to make it worse rather than trying to make it better. In my humble opinion, have greater car type limitations/restrictions, always give the player the advantage, and simplify what the AI is trying to do. Each bot should only be concerned with trying to be first to the line and not hit the player (let them hit each all they want). Set the bots up on a decreasing PP scale from back to front, and always put them on worse tires and less power than the player. Then, just let it take it's course. I'd play that.

Or they could have made it larger right now, by not being so gung-ho on graphics. What if they'd kept the pre-upscale resolution at GT5 levels, and used that extra horsepower to drive better AI?

Pretty screenshots sell games. Always have...always will. In the in store demo of a video game is known as "attract mode".

But you are correct.

 

[mister dog]

I'm still skeptical on the "every other racing game" statements. The only real advancement I have heard of is drivatar, which is a move away from trying to advance AI.

I still contend that the issue is contextual. PD is searching for new blood. The end of a console cycle is when consoles are handed down to the younger members of a family (either by purchase or inheritance). That means, the AI is currently going to be really great to kids. My 9 year old LOVES playing GT.

Again this is where a difficulty level fixes those issues; let your 9 year old play on easy and if you yourself are good enough put it on expert. At least grown men could get immersed in the racing then also...

Just a matter of having the same AI but a difference in the laptimes they set. Let's say they lap 15 seconds a lap slower in easy mode than on hard. Not rocket science is it?

 

[Voodoovaj]

Just a matter of having the same AI but a difference in the laptimes they set. Let's say they lap 15 seconds a lap slower in easy mode than on hard. Not rocket science is it?

Makes me wonder what the Arcade aggression level does now



on a side note, we are all being entertained by a thread about being bored...how ironic

 

[mister dog]

Makes me wonder what the Arcade aggression level does now

If i can speak from my experience with GT5, the speed of the bots on hard in arcade mode was still too slow. They were better but still not fast enough. Dunno if it's still the same for GT6 but seeing how much of a copy-paste it is, i wouldn't be surprised if it is. Arcade mode doesn't give you credits to buy cars and progress in the game though, so people are forced to play career offline.

on a side note, we are all being entertained by a thread about being bored...how ironic

I guess we are just bored

 

[Imari]

Makes me wonder what the Arcade aggression level does now

Well, it doesn't do anything for career mode, which is a far larger part of the single player game than arcade mode is.

 

[Coenraad]

Let me rephrase, because I am not defending the AI. What I am saying is that in the context of GT6, the unique context of GT6 being a console moving game for a much wider audience than the core racing game player, the AI we get is the best AI we will ever get.

All the games mentioned above had AI that I found to be more engaging and I don't think anyone here would dispute that. However, they were oriented toward the racing gamer, not the masses. I'm not saying AI was the direct cause of their demise (and apologies if it came out that way).

The problem with levels of difficulty are two fold/ First is that it is only changed by the people who are most hardcore. The average Joe will never change it. The average Joe in GT doesn't even read. They don't tune. They pick a car and go. At the other end, the very hardcore, they're online and ignoring the AI altogether. Secondly, where do the levels lie and will they serve enough people? Do you have 3? 5? 7? Arcade has 10 and I frankly don't see a difference between any of them. Has anyone else noticed?

Heck pick any one of the AI from the games mentioned above and implement it, and I am sure the folks in this thread will universally believe it is better....But the multitude of people who buy the game will moan about it and flood Sony's inbox with complaints. THAT is what I am saying. the AI is a victim of GT's success.


But here's also another thing about AI currently. Read through that list again.

GTR is PC (unless there is a console version that I haven't heard about)
Nascar from Papyrus...PC
24 Hours of LeMans Dreamcast! - The PS3 version actually looked worse than the DC version. The game did poorly sales wise and the PS3 port was not up to par.
The TOCA games...loved them...

Notice that none of these games are current? (not that they didn't sell, just that they are not current)
What game, currently on console, has better AI than GT6?

The masses want easy...stupidly easy. To the masses, the AI in GT6 IS better. See what I'm saying?

Sorry for a late reply.
The fact that a title is on the console or PC should have little to do with AI.

I do agree that the masses want easy AI. But there is the problem, the AI is not easy, it is downright stupid. Easy AI is AI that drives clean and at a not too fast pace. The AI in GT6 is just blind, and drives you off the track if they get the chance. Blaming it on the fact that it is console is just wrong. Btw the TOCA games are still valid (new name that's all) and so is the GTR/Race francise.( GTR3 is around the corner)


Gt6 has been focussing on the wrong things trough the years. They should have focused more on improving the concept then what they have done sofar.
We are in GT6!!! And we still have the same crappy engine sounds (except a select few), poor online lobby. The guy who designed that part should have been fired allready after gt5. Same "career" mode like all the other titles have with basicaly the same championships and cups.

It is a joke really. Drive for example a DTM cup with just random old junk, not even a full field or a few new up to date cars. A GT3/Super GT field without a propper field of licenced liveries.

Sorry but atm the Gt series is just a half arsed copy paste thing with few improvements let alone novelties.

Sure the new tracks are fun for a while and the new physics are great, but offline is just boring, stale, after doing the same thing since gt3. And online is a pain in the backside due to the poor lobby and rules, and lack of intuitivity. You can't even see the exact rules before you have joined a server. wth??

 

[Voodoovaj]

Sorry for a late reply.
The fact that a title is on the console or PC should have little to do with AI.

It has everything to do with it. Not only is it hardware, but it is a different market which means different assumptions can be made in the design and implementation. PC racing is for a very specific subset of racing game fans.

I do agree that the masses want easy AI. But there is the problem, the AI is not easy, it is downright stupid. Easy AI is AI that drives clean and at a not too fast pace. The AI in GT6 is just blind, and drives you off the track if they get the chance. Blaming it on the fact that it is console is just wrong. Btw the TOCA games are still valid (new name that's all) and so is the GTR/Race francise.( GTR3 is around the corner)

"The AI in GT6 is just blind" ... Yes, they are. As stated, they don't see the way we do. They have a detection radius around the car.

Maybe I don't have the time with the AI that everyone else has. Frankly, I just drive by them without a second thought, but I haven't had them "drive me off the road". I'm not denying that they do that, but I've never had it happen. Granted, I rarely venture into single player unless the mood strikes me to advance my progress. Also, I assume other cars will run into me (because people do that all the time) so maybe I'm just good at avoiding trouble.

TOCA evolved into Grid if I'm not mistaken. I don't recall their AI doing anything different, but again maybe it's just me.

If people are bored, go review the GRID AI and compare it against the GT AI to see what their AI does markedly better. IS GRID 2 still free on PSN?

 

[Voodoovaj]

So, always one to accept that I'm wrong(lol), I went looking at the AI. Maybe it's a point of view issue, but the GT AI is still pretty good in my opinion (hear me out before reacting). I drove according to the "golden rule", which is that the car behind has to make the safe pass. Also, always be aware of overlap (which is when the car ahead is not 100% past the car behind). They didn't hit me or run me off the road as mentioned in this thread.

As I have contended all along, the AI is technically pretty good.

I think where the complaints should really be pointing is the game play set up (aka design) of the career mode and arcade mode. The design implementation that restricts the AI from competing with the player and the degree of rubber banding, etc. This leads to closing rates that are prone to accidents and frustration (which can appear to be AI hitting you).

I also checked out the levels of difficulty. Setting the difficulty in Arcade to it's maximum (professional with aggression at 10) I still found it easy. However, that is 30 different degrees of difficulty, but the pace range is not large enough. This still isn't AI btw...it's design implementation.

FYI, I know that companies do read forums and they do discuss actionable points - isolating the actual issue could have a true repercussion. Harping on an AI that is actually fine will get no results. Harping on a design that is actually awful just might. Design implementation is also easier to fix.

btw - I blame focus groups for this.

 

[pudgiecat]

GT6 has lost my interest....I am tired of looking at the seasonals and seeing nothing but time trials......and having to buy cars that I don't want to own in order to attempt them......I miss the seasonal race series we had in GT5 and the act they could be run and won multiple times......

As many have stated here, I spend more time here on GT planet then with the game.....going to do my log in and play the new The Last of Us DLC.......

 

[unityrules1]

Bored after 3 months, switched to Driver San Francisco

Yes

Is it a requirement now?

?!?!

 

[patg500]

im still playing GT6 and gran turismo 6 update 1.05 have not come yet i hope PD will add livery editor to gran turismo 6 update 1.05

 

[GTPVenomZombie]

This whole thread is more entertaining than the actual game!

 

[mustangxr]

GT6 has lost my interest....I am tired of looking at the seasonals and seeing nothing but time trials......and having to buy cars that I don't want to own in order to attempt them......I miss the seasonal race series we had in GT5 and the act they could be run and won multiple times......

As many have stated here, I spend more time here on GT planet then with the game.....going to do my log in and play the new The Last of Us DLC.......

My sentiments exactly!!

 

[Convergent]

Disappointed about the lack of communication between PD and the players...
Put in more hours in than in GT6...

 

[Ameer67]

Disappointed about the lack of communication between PD and the players...
Put in more hours in than in GT6...

Same here. The only reason I boot up GT6 is because of the Seasonals and my club's lobbies.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Same here. The only reason I boot up GT6 is because of the Seasonals and my club's lobbies.

You bring up a good point, because if it were me running this GT6 show, I would find a way to blend multiplayer and career mode (which would be ridiculously easy to do). I think it would be MUCH more entertaining to have every event give you the option of playing with others online (like little big planet does) and just fill the gaps with the bots.

If career mode were structured like that, I'd play it endlessly.

As I mentioned before, It's doubtful that PD would employ lesser talented programmers. However, their game play design is really awful. I say that because all of the goals they have would not suffer (graphics, performance, etc) if there were just 1 clever game director on board.

Apologies to whomever is in that role now, but you aren't doing a good job dude.


Details you ask?? Simple. Structure all races just like the online racing (grid start, qualify for some races, starts based on previous round for others). Some spec racing, some tuner racing, etc. <----THIS, having some preset structure, would make online better as well.

Bots fill the grid positions. The player profile should contain a database of fastest laps/PP for every track. Do match-making based on that. First time on that track = newbie no matter what.

Then stage the races at set intervals, regardless of the ratio of bots/humans.

If I had enough time on it, I could probably figure out a way to do endurance events too.


Want me to make you really angry now? All of what I described above would only need the addition of AI to online and a laptime DB matchmaker. The rest of that code is already in the game.

 

[CBH]

PD should have had grid starts for some races and qualifying for all races and a full game but again this is a big let down on PD part for the players . This game should have never been released on PS3 that was a big mistake PD made and look what we get a half of game because it is on PS3. What was PD thinking to release it on PS3 I am thinking all of the board members at PD are not that very bright upstairs.

 

[sheferd]

I love playing this game but mainly for the photography side of it.
The races are just required to gain the money I need for my "subjects".

I do enjoy the racing but it sometimes just feels un satisfying. Today was when it hit me. I was racing the Tour of Japan in the IB Champs and those races are up to 600PP I had my 550PP S2000 and I'd passed everyone 3/4 of the way through lap 1. leaving me to just race myself. Obviously winning is nice, but a challenge is nice as well. I just don't feel like I'm racing at all. its more like a track day with elderly 'sunday drivers'. If i'm in a 600PP Race I expect to be able to enter at 600PP and have a challenge not just races car that sort-of-fit-requirments.
Add tunes to the cars. modify them a little. make a bit more exciting!

Watching the AI, they're so boring/rigid/robotic/safe/conservative/uncompetitive. When I watch Motorsport it doesn't look like that, its always intense, teeth grinding anticipation.

I just felt like I had seen it all already, then I remembered! oh yea GT1/2/3/4/5/5P thats where I'd seen it! Thinking about it, its really disappointing. It's just GT5.5 really.

This game is supposed to be the 'Real Driving Sim...'. if so why is it so dumbed down?

 

[CBH]

This game is supposed to be the 'Real Driving Sim...'. if so why is it so dumbed down?

You have to ask PD on that question and I will be and interesting answer.

 

[Convergent]

I love playing this game but mainly for the photography side of it.
The races are just required to gain the money I need for my "subjects".

I do enjoy the racing but it sometimes just feels un satisfying. Today was when it hit me. I was racing the Tour of Japan in the IB Champs and those races are up to 600PP I had my 550PP S2000 and I'd passed everyone 3/4 of the way through lap 1. leaving me to just race myself. Obviously winning is nice, but a challenge is nice as well. I just don't feel like I'm racing at all. its more like a track day with elderly 'sunday drivers'. If i'm in a 600PP Race I expect to be able to enter at 600PP and have a challenge not just races car that sort-of-fit-requirments.
Add tunes to the cars. modify them a little. make a bit more exciting!

Watching the AI, they're so boring/rigid/robotic/safe/conservative/uncompetitive. When I watch Motorsport it doesn't look like that, its always intense, teeth grinding anticipation.

I just felt like I had seen it all already, then I remembered! oh yea GT1/2/3/4/5/5P thats where I'd seen it! Thinking about it, its really disappointing. It's just GT5.5 really.

This game is supposed to be the 'Real Driving Sim...'. if so why is it so dumbed down?

Yeah, the photomode is the only interesting thing...

 

[liv4hardstyle]

For all those who find the game boring, i would love to know: are you playing the game the way it was intended, that is, with a good wheel set up?

i tryed this game with a controller after playing with a wheel since GT5 and i can tell you it is a completely different beast. Firstly, its alot harder with a controller and secondly, i fell asleep.

The days of sitting on your couch with a controller are over, invest in a wheel and the "real" experience of GT6 will open its doors

Using a wheel can never get boring to me because you play this game to drive, if you get bored of the driving then its time to trade in your copy of GT6 for a first person shooter and be done with it.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Yep, I'm bored now. GT6 is incredibly featureless.

 

[Voodoovaj]

This game is supposed to be the 'Real Driving Sim...'. if so why is it so dumbed down?

I posted the reasoning here -> https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/we-bought-a-beta-release.303833/page-2#post-9396026

This game should have never been released on PS3 that was a big mistake PD made and look what we get a half of game because it is on PS3. What was PD thinking to release it on PS3 I am thinking all of the board members at PD are not that very bright upstairs.

Profits my friend. It's a game that sits halfway between GT5 and GT7. The development costs are minimal and accounted for on other projects (rendering and physics - GT7. Most of the content GT5 and earlier). I think they achieved 2 million sales so far. Retailers get a variety of deals, but let's say they sell in at $30US, that's $60 million in gross revenue (ball park guess).

 

[MXH]

For all those who find the game boring, i would love to know: are you playing the game the way it was intended, that is, with a good wheel set up?

....

The days of sitting on your couch with a controller are over, invest in a wheel and the "real" experience of GT6 will open its doors

Investing in a wheel is pointless and waste of money, in my opinion. A wheel won't change the very core that makes Gran Turismo 6 a never ending yawn. With no competetive AI, poorly thought out career mode, thoroughly bad engine sounds, Time Trial...umm I meant Seasonal Events there is little to no fun or excitement to be had.

However, if you like hotlapping till the end of time, you're in for a treat.

 

[BlacqueJacques]

Bored of the super lap seasonals ; I wanna race seasonal!

 

[Squanto]

For all those who find the game boring, i would love to know: are you playing the game the way it was intended, that is, with a good wheel set up?

i tryed this game with a controller after playing with a wheel since GT5 and i can tell you it is a completely different beast. Firstly, its alot harder with a controller and secondly, i fell asleep.

The days of sitting on your couch with a controller are over, invest in a wheel and the "real" experience of GT6 will open its doors

Using a wheel can never get boring to me because you play this game to drive, if you get bored of the driving then its time to trade in your copy of GT6 for a first person shooter and be done with it.

I enjoyed gt1-5 far more with ds/ds2 /ds3... Then I did gt6 with wheel and playseat...
Gt5 i did with both, but golded all licences with ds3...
Yes its more real life like with a wheel ... But I enjoyed a controller just as much, probably more!

 

[PepeMickey]

I'm bored to death with everything GT, I literally just changed the resolution to 480p in my 1080p TV just for the thrill, OMG it makes GT5 look like a remastered GT4.

 

[sparkytooth]

Not quite yet guise. Just finished Mission S-5 and it was beautiful, the stars....By god....