...and PD needs longer yet to do them at 60fps. Neither company has nailed it perfectly. Also I doubt it that GT will ever have gems like [insert four random cars that are in Forza but not GT]. That's been one of my criticisms of the Forza series for a while. It seems, judging by them keeping the Mustang GT as well as the new GT350, that they're changing their mind about it. Sometimes. Sometimes. Opinion. Er, if anything, that could be an idea levelled at GT more than Forza... 1/3 of what? I've no reason to doubt the 450 number will be accurate at release. Please, can I borrow your time machine, so that I too can know what a complete GT7 is like? Seriously, if you want to turn the discussion into a general Forza vs GT one, do it here.